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View Full Version : SI, Hit or Miss for Honda?



SpacemanSpiff
06-18-2002, 12:50 PM
Something I've been thinking about:

I love my SI. It is a great performer, yet refined and comfortable as well. The styling is very european, which I like. I was also looking at VW GTIs and the new Mini when shopping. The VW on one extreme has great power and mushy handling. The Mini has great handling, but little power (Base, not S). The SI was a great deal, and a great compromise of power and handling, so I bought one.

But, I don't really care for the civic coupes. And it seems that the owners of other civics tend to dislike the new SI based on what I've read on other Honda boards.
So, do you think Honda has hit their target audience/demographic with this new SI?

From what I've read and observed, they aren't selling nearly as well as the old SI. Will this design just take a while to catch on, or has Honda missed the mark?

SBC31
06-18-2002, 12:59 PM
Wrong place to ask this question, most of us have a 2002 Si (SiR) and obviously wanted one.

Personally, the look should grow on others, to me the Si (SiR) design is great, but most people still associate a Civic as being a cheap basic econo car, and the Si (SIR) isn't that. Honda may want to bring the non Si (SiR) to North America since many people will probably get one if it's price closer the the last of the 6th gen Civic hatch.

Hard to say, I just hope Honda doesn't do like they did in 2000 and cancel the hatch totally in North America.

Time will tell.

DownTheHatch
06-18-2002, 01:08 PM
It's the price. 19k msrp is too high for a civic.

SBC31
06-18-2002, 01:12 PM
Then buy a Civic SiR in Canada. They sell for $25,500 CDN and this means $16,500 USD with the exchange.

For a change something is cheaper in Canada (sort of....).

SpacemanSpiff
06-18-2002, 01:31 PM
I agree, $19K is too high. to my way of thinking the MSRP should be around $17500 at the most, $18000 with destination. I think the SI competes very well at that price, but the sticker on my car was something like $19,700 (destination and Side Air Bags). That is too close to $20,000 for me, and there are lots of other options in the $20K and slightly over neighborhood. Personally, If I hadn't read online that people were getting them at close to invoice, I wouldn't have been shopping for one.
At the $20K range it is just a little stretch to get into a WRX, RSX-S, Cooper S, or GTI VR6.

02TafWhtSi
06-18-2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by SpacemanSpiff
I agree, $19K is too high. to my way of thinking the MSRP should be around $17500 at the most, $18000 with destination. I think the SI competes very well at that price, but the sticker on my car was something like $19,700 (destination and Side Air Bags). That is too close to $20,000 for me, and there are lots of other options in the $20K and slightly over neighborhood. Personally, If I hadn't read online that people were getting them at close to invoice, I wouldn't have been shopping for one.
At the $20K range it is just a little stretch to get into a WRX, RSX-S, Cooper S, or GTI VR6.

Exactly - Honda really screwed up w/ the price. The car is the best thing to come from Honda since the S2000 and NSX but it is priced a liitle on the high side. Also - like Spaceman said, if anyone wants to spend another couple grand or more they will be in a class with cars that can outhandle, outaccelerate, and plain kick my civic's round ass in most ways! Thats not to say I don't love my new toy - I just think Honda should either offer more for the buck or lower the g'damn price!

CleanBlackSi02
06-18-2002, 07:44 PM
I think the Si has a wealth of potential....but straight out of the factory the car could use some work. The interior could not be better, but if they had included a body kit (even if it wasn't type R-esque), a lower stance, and better wheels and tires, the sticker price would be well worth it. Cues from the previous Si would have probably helped sales in the U.S./Canada as well.

02TafWhtSi
06-18-2002, 08:04 PM
This is a very sore subject for me at least. I had my heart set on a 2002 1.8T Gti w/ those beautiful 17's an option until I actually spoke to the dealer. The test drive was perfect. The acceleration is so understated in that car that its almost weird. I mean you mash the pedal and its so quiet and all you feel is the torque! You HAVE to watch the tach in order to shift b/c the engine is so quiet. Anyway - long story short - The dealer wanted way more than it was worth (23,600 incl. tax) and so I said goodbye. The Si was my second choice but I will always dream of that Gti....No regrets for the Si though:D!

IceD out N CALI
06-19-2002, 11:52 AM
So far it looks like it has been a miss with honda. I think there are a number of reasons for it 1) the magazines kinda dogged it before they came out in favor of the SVT 2) 19k is too high like others here have said (17K or nice 17inch wheels + type R kit) would make the price doable, and 3) in todays times there are more options with other manufacturers like the spec V, base RSX, SVT focus that out perform us and for the most part are priced cheaper. 4) last I think the style of the hatch (I like it) has never sold nearly as good as the sedan and coupe for honda from the 5th gen, especially the 6th gen hatchies didnt sell especially well in comparison to the coupes and sedans--just my opinion i could be wrong

punkdork
06-19-2002, 07:06 PM
I dunno.. I've never been a honda fan but I dig this car. Does that mean it was a hit? For the price and market it should have more hp, 6 spd tranny, a better stereo, an LSD and better wheels. Not saying I'm not happy... I just wish it had more.

CleanBlackSi02
06-19-2002, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
So far it looks like it has been a miss with honda. I think there are a number of reasons for it 1) the magazines kinda dogged it before they came out in favor of the SVT 2) 19k is too high like others here have said (17K or nice 17inch wheels + type R kit) would make the price doable, and 3) in todays times there are more options with other manufacturers like the spec V, base RSX, SVT focus that out perform us and for the most part are priced cheaper. 4) last I think the style of the hatch (I like it) has never sold nearly as good as the sedan and coupe for honda from the 5th gen, especially the 6th gen hatchies didnt sell especially well in comparison to the coupes and sedans--just my opinion i could be wrong


Don't get me wrong....I love Honda, and I love my Si, but out of the factory, HOnda missed. I bought my Si for the wealth of potential it has! Just look at how much better the new Si looks with aftermarket wheels and some springs!

SpacemanSpiff
06-19-2002, 07:14 PM
I agree with you punk. I would not have been attracted to another SI coupe just like the last one. On the other hand, all the folks who have a coupe style SI say that they don't like the hatchback. I wonder if Honda was aiming for another demographic with this one or if it was just an accident?

punkdork
06-19-2002, 07:20 PM
I'm a big WRC fan... I dig on how much the Si looks like the 206. Although the 206 would be butt-ugly without the giant wing.

SpacemanSpiff
06-19-2002, 07:46 PM
Yep, the SI looks like it should be in a WRC or Touring Car race. Very European. I like it:D

SBC31
06-19-2002, 07:50 PM
SpacemanSpiff ;

The Si (SiR) actually it's the Type-R, is in TOCA already. See the gallery for pictures of them. (Black and Red one)

Idonthaveahatch
06-19-2002, 07:57 PM
Its miss, I see a lot of dealerships around here that cant get rid of them.

SBC31
06-19-2002, 08:02 PM
Idonthaveahatch;

I think it's too early to say wether it's a Hit or Miss still. They've only been out a little over 2 months. Judging by the interest and new owners here, I think it may become a hit, it will just take time to get there.

I think we should wait at least until say "November" to see if the car is a Hit or Miss.

p.s. It's a huge HIT for me, I waited 2 years for Honda to bring back the hatch and they finally did it.

Idonthaveahatch
06-19-2002, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by SBC31
Idonthaveahatch;

I think it's too early to say wether it's a Hit or Miss still. They've only been out a little over 2 months. Judging by the interest and new owners here, I think it may become a hit, it will just take time to get there.

I think we should wait at least until say "November" to see if the car is a Hit or Miss.

p.s. It's a huge HIT for me, I waited 2 years for Honda to bring back the hatch and they finally did it.

True True I shouldnt jump to conclusions, you are right, Id buy one but I think the price is just to outrageous for a hatchback. I think they should be around 16K not 19.

DJQuikFingaz
06-19-2002, 08:05 PM
Yea, give em a chance to show their true colors. I personally, love them.

punkdork
06-19-2002, 08:10 PM
Its weird... I think I've got the only one on the east side... I haven't seen ANY in the seattle area other than the one I'm driving.

IceD out N CALI
06-19-2002, 08:12 PM
thats true has not been enough time yet, look at the RSX it wasnt embraced very quickly but it grew on people(there arnt that many RSX's now that its been a year, then back in 94 when they released that previous style integra). An example of a car that was an instant hit is the new celicas, when first released with in like 4 months they were everywhere. BUt i love my si, dont get me wrong jus cant wait till our aftermarket hits

punkdork
06-19-2002, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
thats true has not been enough time yet, look at the RSX it wasnt embraced very quickly but it grew on people(there arnt that many RSX's now that its been a year, then back in 94 when they released that previous style integra). An example of a car that was an instant hit is the new celicas, when first released with in like 4 months they were everywhere. BUt i love my si, dont get me wrong jus cant wait till our aftermarket hits

New Celicas and instant hit?!?! They are FUGLY to me. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

archer2332
06-19-2002, 08:20 PM
I agree with some of you guys saying give it some time to grow on people. When people start seeing more and more on the roads they might change their minds about the car. I know a couple of people have told me how they like the car now and it looks better in person.

SBC31
06-19-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Idonthaveahatch

True True I shouldnt jump to conclusions, you are right, Id buy one but I think the price is just to outrageous for a hatchback. I think they should be around 16K not 19.

Well in Canada the 02 SiR (Si in the US) is a little over 16K (taking the exchange rate into consideration)

Guess the UK simply loves Canada...lol!

SpacemanSpiff
06-19-2002, 08:21 PM
Idonthaveahatch, you really should talk to some dealers regarding price. I doubt you'll get one for 16K, but 17.5 should be possible, especially if they have a few on the lot.

SBC31
06-19-2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
An example of a car that was an instant hit is the new celicas, when first released with in like 4 months they were everywhere.

Interesting, the Celica here in Canada is a "Miss" for Toyota. But they still have hope if they put a real engine in it.

02TafWhtSi
06-19-2002, 08:39 PM
No offense to the Si but if Toyota placed the GT-S around $20k instead of $23-24k thats what I'd be in know. Styling is really dramatic and eye-catching especially w/ the rear wing, can't go wrong w/ a car that weighs in at 2550 lbs, and an 8000 redline w/ 180 hp - awesome.

tricky
06-21-2002, 09:20 AM
I say give it time, it's like fine wine....just gets better with age, that's when you know it has lasting power and will grow gracefully, not like cars with immediate eye-candy, and people get sick of fast. I own a coupe by the way and i love both. The potential is definetly there though for the hatch, to become a monster...:D

SilverArrow
06-21-2002, 04:02 PM
I think it is a big hit. Com' on...it's a Civic SI. It's a brand new body style. It's pretty quick in my book, espically for being a 4 banger. It's just plain old cool!:cool: :cool:

iR-VTEC2
06-21-2002, 05:20 PM
Where I live. They are ALL SOLD OUT. Completely. You cant even order one. Gone. Sold out. none. SO many people stop and look at my car while its parked. What does that tell ya? And its STOCK.

As for the price, dont forget that the car IS made in Swindon, England. That's pretty far way huh? Not to mention the car is engineered SO much better than most cars out there. Haven't ya'll noticed?

The car's hp is due to two things. The fierce emissions control and cas prices in the UK. And #2, Honda does NOT want any of the K series engines upstaging the RSX-S.

The K20 has 1 5/8" exhaust piping, a super shitty airbox and a 4 into 1 header that probably does not scavenge very well. change those things and ye shall see :D.

Miss? hell no. I would NEVER get a ford or a VW or any other car as NO other car manufacturer has the reputation for excellence as honda does.

Honda does not play follow the leader. They're in control and basically influence the way that other car manufacturers engineer their automobiles.

I'd take a celica tho : ) Those are sexy and toyota is also bad ass.
oh and I got my 2k2si for 21.5

HondaMan
06-21-2002, 11:08 PM
It's to early to tell...I love my car and happy to be the only person in my area driving one. I haven't seen another 2K2 Si in Portland yet. However, I just stick around the Clackamas/Portland area. Mostly just driving to work and back. I get lots of looks in it at the local stores or just driving around. There is a lot of custom Hondas and imports around here. I paid 19.5 for mine...no sales tax here is an awesome bonus. I just moved from Washington to here and took advantage of the no sales tax right away. I had a 89 Civic Si and loved it...put 140,000 miles on it over 7 years. So, it is nice to have another sporty Si again!

Punkdork, I'll be up your way at the end of July for a LAN party with my gaming buddies. I would love to see your car...white was my first choice but ended up with black, which is cool as well. :)

BTW, I wish it had a 6 speed, 17" wheels (would have saved me some $$$) and Euro Type S ground effects. I would have got a lot more bang for my buck if they added those and it would make the 19.5 far easier to justify.

punkdork
06-22-2002, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by HondaMan
Punkdork, I'll be up your way at the end of July for a LAN party with my gaming buddies. I would love to see your car...white was my first choice but ended up with black, which is cool as well. :)

It's stock as hell but you're welcome to see it :)