My Raz Stage II Cams for the K20a3.

[chunky]

Just got word from the shop that they've been made. Can't wait to get them in. The lobe is very similar to the type-s VTEC lobe so power numbers should be similar to that of a head swapped motor. I should have them in my hands by friday, and hopefully installed over the weekend with dyno sheets soon to follow.


The VTEC crossover is much lower than on the A2.

2200rpm on the a3.

For those intrested, the stock k20a3 duration/lift specs are:

Ex profile @ .050 174` X .219" lobe lift
Int profile @ .050 182` X .214" lobe lift

This cam doesn't have much more lift, but there is a LOT more duration.

The first roadblock to high rpm in the k20a3 is the head. The engine simply doesn't make power much past 7500rpm. Once you upgrade the head to make power past 7500rpm, the next roadblock is the bottom end. The k20a3 bottom end does not have a balanced crankshaft, the rods are thinner and have a smaller big bore, the pistons are flat top (good for nitrous) but lower compression. The k20a3 bottom end has been shown to handle 8000rpm by the various folks out there who have head swaps. Beyond that it's unknown how much it can really take.

And 5w-30 is a thicker oil than 5w-20. 5w-30 will protect better at high rpm as it's less likely to "sling" off of parts spinning at high rpm (i.e. camshafts)

Quick pic of the Raz Cams....
http://www.razid.com/images/RazCams/cam1.jpg

Updated 9/15/2008....
http://www.razid.com/project2.html

[SBC31]

Let's hope the numbers are worth all the work and a possible rough idle.

BTW, are you going to need bigger injectors? Sorry if you already answered that question.

[DynaSpeed]

Rumor has it, that they have a sexyyyy idle, really rumbles good, and almost sounds really agressive like the IPS k2 on the k20a2 almoast.

[chunky]

So I just wasted my late lunch break to get the car to idle. she idles around 1500. I could idle her lower, but she'd have a NASTY lope. at 1500 it's still rough, but the car won't die at 1500 whereas if I idled her lower, if you blip the throttle, she tries to die.

These cams are NOT for the weak at heart. they will put hair on your chest and make it fall out if you already have hair on your chest.



Let's hope the numbers are worth all the work and the rough idle

indeed. my last dyno was 152/133. I'm pretty sure i'll be dynoing at least 170/140 with a little tuning. and with extensive tuning, who knows where i'll end up.



BTW, are you going to need bigger injectors? Sorry if you already answered that question.

I have type-s injectors. basically, this is the cheap way to make power. you get type-s performance w/o having to do the head swap, total cost is much less, performance is similar except that you have a rough idle.


Rumor has it, that they have a sexyyyy idle, really rumbles good, and almost sounds really agressive like the IPS k2 on the k20a2 almoast.

heh, the idle is a lot rougher than the K2, believe me on that. bigdawg's car purrs like a kitten at idle v.s. these.

Thanks for the interest, your patience will be rewarded guys. i'll have dynos and all the good stuff within a month's time. this isn't my full time job, so I'm limited on the amount of time & resources I can spend on it.

[chunky]

Thanks to MAINSTREAM PERFORMANCE in Powder Springs, GA, I was able to spend some time on the dyno tonight! Mike @ Mainstream has always come through for me.

http://www.razid.com/images/RazCams/tuned_hp.jpg
http://www.razid.com/images/RazCams/tuned_tq.jpg

As you can see, Stock cams make more torque down low. This is wholly due to VTC being disabled. I included the stock dyno because I changed motors since the last set of dynos. There is a lower mileage motor in the car now which made more baseline power than the old motor. Even with the higher baseline, the Raz Cams stage II made 27whp more than the stock cams, without VTC! The tuned VTC dynos will reflect much less low end torque loss. Also the tuned VTC maps will reflect even more gains up top. The tuned map feels much smoother. Although it's not reflected on the dyno plot, the part throttle driving has been vastly improved. I daily drive the car at present using the non-VTC map.

http://www.razid.com/images/RazCams/stgII_hp.jpg
http://www.razid.com/images/RazCams/stgII_tq.jpg

The car is now making as much peak HP as the untuned VTC maps!! Part of this simply stems from the fact that the Previous VTC maps were obtained from a motor that had over 100k miles. The tuned maps are done on a motor that has about 40k miles, everything else has remained unchanged. This is quite remarkable and bodes well for what the final VTC dynos will look like. Obviously the torque output of the VTC maps is far superior.

VTC map tuning will begin next week. I'm waiting delivery of parts needed to safely run VTC with these cams. I will begin taking deposits from those interested in purchasing these cams soon!

-Raz

[Silver '02 Si]

Are you running a stock motor or have you done any mods to it, so what kind?

THIS IS FREKING GREAT! I EVEN THOUGHT OF HAVING THE REGROUND!

[2k2civicSi]

Chunky is the header you have on your car a shorty or RH? If so, these cams would take better advantage of the RH I'd guess? Also do you think these cams would benefit from a type-s/type-r manifold and a bored TB?

[chunky]

Are you running a stock motor or have you done any mods to it, so what kind?

THIS IS FREKING GREAT! I EVEN THOUGHT OF HAVING THE REGROUND!

my engine mods are as follows

custom intake
ceramic coated borla header
custom exhaust
hondata heatshield intake manifold gasket
es motor mount inserts
type-s 6spd transmission w/ 4.764 final dive

my camshafts w/ valvetrain upgrades.
k-pro.

Not too shabby considering that the bottom end has 114k miles on it, with STOCK pistons.


Chunky is the header you have on your car a shorty or RH? If so, these cams would take better advantage of the RH I'd guess? Also do you think these cams would benefit from a type-s/type-r manifold and a bored TB?

I have the borla header. it is inbetween a shorty & race header. it has really long primaries, and is a 4-1 header. makes great top end power, not so great low end.

a bored TB is on my list of things to do, but at this point but not before a final dyno with VTC, my money is better spent on tuning these cams for a basic i/h/e setup.

[Glix]

I'm sorry, but while the peak whp gains are very impressive, am I the only one concerned about the *huge* losses from 2000 to 5-5500rpm, where you'll spend 80% of your time at?

I realize you say you have a lot of tuning to go, but do you think you'll be able to get that low-mid range up to some good numbers?

I don't want to be a party-pooper, but if I saw mid-range losses like that, I'd be a bit concerned....

[chunky]

I'm sorry, but while the peak whp gains are very impressive, am I the only one concerned about the *huge* losses from 2000 to 5-5500rpm, where you'll spend 80% of your time at?

I realize you say you have a lot of tuning to go, but do you think you'll be able to get that low-mid range up to some good numbers?

I don't want to be a party-pooper, but if I saw mid-range losses like that, I'd be a bit concerned....

stock cams = more low rpm power, get beaten by cars that run low 14's.

these cams = less low rpm power, beat cars that run low 14's.

just depends on where your priorities are. the final dynos will change a lot from this. there is a lot, i mean a LOT of tuning work left to be done here. I tuned my stock motor, I know the importance of low rpm power & a smooth power delivery. before i'm done with these cams, the plots will be smooth like my stock cam dyno.

oh, and not that it really matters, my stock cammed a3 made more low rpm hp/torque on the same dyno than a stock type-s. so it's not really that these cams are THAT shallow on low rpm power, it's just that the a3 stock cams are that GOOD on low rpm power.

[Silver '02 Si]

What sort of 1/4 times will you put down with these?

[2k2civicSi]

So chunky, so wats next after the finished tune with VTC?

[chunky]

Long time no update!

http://www.razid.com/images/RazCams/slip2.jpg

Obviously I was on the left.

- removed rear seats, spare, and jack
- 195/60/15 kumho kh11's at full tread on stock wheels
- launch control @ 4500rpm

The times are pretty good for this particular track which is known to be about .2 slower than other tracks in GA. I'm sure that there is room for improvement on this time. I haven't had much seat time in the car since the install of the cams at all. With better launching (and tires) the 60ft could be in the 2.1x range on street tires. Wider tires on lighter wheels would help a lot.

Unfortunately I discovered that the new motor is not very happy with the tune I used on the old motor. the A/F was way rich on that run (think 12:1's).

Either way, this proves that the power is there to run good times. I'm especially happy with the trap speed. It is indicative of the lower times that I will eventually achieve with more seat time.

-Raz

[chunky]

Raz Cams Stg II FINAL dyno results!!

http://www.razid.com/images/vtc_tuned_stock.jpg

http://www.razid.com/images/vtc_tuned_no_vtc_tuned.jpg

The VTC results were well worth all the hard work.





So chunky, so wats next after the finished tune with VTC?

wrapping up development on the k20a3 stage I cam for turbo cars.

so far, we've made more power @ 7psi than the stock cams @ 10psi.

the car owner is coming back down again for the 2nd & final tuning session sometime in the next couple of weeks. We'll tune his greddy kit out for 10psi and post results.

[Silver '02 Si]

The peak numbers on the second graph dont really tell the story. The VTC tuning produced a lot of power in the mid range.

[MugenReplica]

Just have to bump this for a pioneer of Ephatch's community today and to show all the newer members what can be done with a set of K20a3 cams. Albeit these are custom, their specs are in between the Skunk2 Stage I and Skunk2's K20a3 Stage II cams from what I have gathered (although I could be wrong).

What reminded me was I am going to help a local install some Skunk2 Stage I cams and he asked me if it was worth it. I explained to him about chunky's Raz cams and what was done with them. Afterwards I realized that the threads had all be lost to history and the "Great Hatch Crash" of 2008.

So I thought I'd rebuild the thread to show members on here that K20a3 cams produce a good amount of power and can make your car quicker than you imagine with just simple cams & tuning.

*Just remember all this was done with a shorty header, imagine what I race header can do for you.:mwink:

[RHCP0801]

my old k20a3 with race header and 2.25" exhaust and skunk2 stage 3 cams made 196hp and 141tq, not that bad out of the little a3

[MugenReplica]

my old k20a3 with race header and 2.25" exhaust and skunk2 stage 3 cams made 196hp and 141tq, not that bad out of the little a3

Yea, yours was quite nice!! What exactly happened to it if you don't mind me asking?

Whatever happened to Kyle (aka Carbon Fiber Desire)? I know he has a different screen name and is on clubrsx, but I never see him around here anymore....

[RHCP0801]

tuner told me not to change the tensioner because he modifies it himself

i was all ready to buy the hybrid racing or skunk2 tensioner but he insisted on not getting it

1000 miles later or so his "modified" one failed while leaving a stop sign in second gear and driving like a grandma

this happened

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8489/62395536513042084683001.jpg (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/62395536513042084683001.jpg/)

its not the first time i have heard bad things from this guy but sadly i heard all the bad things AFTER i got it tuned :mad2:

[MugenReplica]

tuner told me not to change the tensioner because he modifies it himself

i was all ready to buy the hybrid racing or skunk2 tensioner but he insisted on not getting it

1000 miles later or so his "modified" one failed while leaving a stop sign in second gear and driving like a grandma

this happened

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8489/62395536513042084683001.jpg (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/62395536513042084683001.jpg/)

its not the first time i have heard bad things from this guy but sadly i heard all the bad things AFTER i got it tuned :mad2:

Ouch.....sorry to hear that....I have a spare K20a3 and spare K20a2 sitting in my house because of such "tuner" issues. I bought Chunky's modified tensioner with a brand new timing chain about 20k ago and have yet to have any issues with my 141k miles 9psi JRSC K20z1/K20a3 hybrid. Do you still have your dyno?

[Tnhatch03]

still riding on the only Raz's F/I A3 Cams...

unfortunately, i think Raz gave up on me...

lol

[RHCP0801]

Ouch.....sorry to hear that....I have a spare K20a3 and spare K20a2 sitting in my house because of such "tuner" issues. I bought Chunky's modified tensioner with a brand new timing chain about 20k ago and have yet to have any issues with my 141k miles 9psi JRSC K20z1/K20a3 hybrid. Do you still have your dyno?

yea right here, a picture of the screen lol

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6949/dscf0145m.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/dscf0145m.jpg/)

and a link to the thread i made
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?55557-my-NA-ep3-dyno-results-stage-3-cams-etc....

[Ba82Ep3]

WoW! Thats why i no longer use aftermarket cams! The few extra hp just aint worth the risk to me... OEM all the way!

Impressive numbers for such 'low' compression though...

[MugenReplica]

Little bump for all those guys still stuck with the K20a3....

Go buy some K20a3/K24a4/K24a1 Skunk2 or Brian Crower cams, or do a nice VTEC killer setup using Z1/a2/a cams and enjoy!