What does it take to smoke WRX

[SF-SI-02]

This is a very simple question, what type of forced induction/psi would it take to match the wrx and what would it take to beat it. When I was test driving the wrx they said it only puts out 1 psi, but then again its a boxer, not an inline, could someone please give me the digits?

Thanks

[sniperSI]

7 psi would whoop theres, not much over our stock.

i think the boost kits that come out for our cars are 7psi, they make more whp then a wrx i think it's something like 240-250 whp and 190 tq at the wheels.


It wouldnt take much boost at all.


and wow i didnt know wrx's only ran 1psi is that right?

[SF-SI-02]

The dealer said just under 1 bar, and he translated that to 1 psi... he was wrong, the car tops out at 14psi. That's a lot, someone said that they felt at 7 we could match a subaru, that is s avery strong statement, because that would imply that a normally aspirated boxer is equivalent to a inline 4 i-vtec... I find that hard to swallow, anyone else?....

[Tekdemon]

The subaru engine is designed for boost so it probably has much lower compression...

And most of the time it's not going to be running at the full 14psi, much lower usually. That's the reason why our engine boosted at 7 can compete...

On the other hand a WRX with a boost controller and some other mods would probably beat the 7psi Si...

I dunno how an NA boxer would respond, probably pretty similar to a regular I4 engine.

[SF-SI-02]

See, I thought that boxer was the most efficient design, though it is not used very often because it is a pain to fin into a car. That's why the bmw motorcycles are amongst the best (boxer engines), and why earlier 911's were capable of putting out so much power with NA...someone please correct me if I am wrong

[2k3vbpEP]

No 1 bar is 14.7psi (barometric pressure hance the term bar)

[Rueda del Queso]

Originally posted by SF-SI-02
that would imply that a normally aspirated boxer is equivalent to a inline 4 i-vtec... I find that hard to swallow, anyone else?....

Not really. They are both 2.0 liter, 4 cylinder engines so it is entirely possible they have similar base power. Keep in mind that Subaru's other engine, 2.5 liter 4 cylinder, makes about 160 hp and torque. That's a good 30 more torque, but our cars are also several hundred pound lighter. Only problem is our cars are front wheel drive so we need a bit higher power/weight ratio in order to beat a wrx which has awd.

[andy]

I know this is the "boost" forum, but if you want to compete
with a WRX from start to finish, you'll need a LSD or some other
traction-helping mod (i.e. driving lessons! ;) ) to compete with
the nasty 60' these cars can put out.

From a roll, 170-180 torque (at the wheels) would probably
be plenty. The AWD really hurts once you get past 60.

Also, 2k3vbpEP was right on with his psi->bar conversion.
I'll hit 1.0 bar on full boost in say, 2nd or 3rd gear and with
my MBC, I can set it at whatever I feel like on a given day.

FWIW, I raced a friend in his RSX Type-S. From a stop, he couldn't
even compete (of course, he was a sheister driver) and from
a 20-30mph roll, we were pretty even.

[mhx]

get a 75 shot of go go juice..
nx wet kit :)

[sniperSI]

Originally posted by SF-SI-02
The dealer said just under 1 bar, and he translated that to 1 psi... he was wrong, the car tops out at 14psi. That's a lot, someone said that they felt at 7 we could match a subaru, that is s avery strong statement, because that would imply that a normally aspirated boxer is equivalent to a inline 4 i-vtec... I find that hard to swallow, anyone else?....



I just got this link from my friend from csi. He just came across this post. Revhard dyno figures for k20 si.

revhardsales
We've finally fished our fueler and our kits are good to go. our stock Civic baseline was 145@126tq and the 7psi kit produced 240@190+. We are offering Club SI an introductory price so call (818) 764-4312 to get a great deal. Let me try to download the dyno sheet.

http://ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10493&highlight=revhard


Once our cars are turbo, it's all over for the comp.

[Tenacious G]

how about an STi?

:confused:

:D

[mhx]

Originally posted by Tenacious G
how about an STi?

:confused:

:D

100 shot of go go juice some slicks.. ES motor mounts.. nice suspension.. and a good driver..

if the STI is stock.

[mhx]

Originally posted by mhx


100 shot of go go juice some slicks.. ES motor mounts.. nice suspension.. and a good driver..

if the STI is stock.

i dont know if it would win.. but it would be a good race to watch..

we would at least hang..

[sniperSI]

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0305scc_subaruwrx/


I don't know, boost ours up to 8 or 10 and i think we would give it a run.


Maybe not who knows, however i do know sti puts down 300 HP to the fly, so that would translate hmmm lets' give it the benifit of the doubt and say it loses 20% of the hp when it puts it to the ground then it's makes about 240 whp, we'd still be faster in theory, but then there is always that pesk torque question.


of course this is all water cooler talk.

[SpeedRacer]

it dosn't matter even if we get a turbo or n20 all the WRX has to do is get a couple mod's and they will be even faster. they can easily run 18psi. my friend has a nice wrx with an up pipe down pipe, utec intake and a bigger intercooler and he is fucking fast as fuck to the point where i cant lift my head off of the head rest, even on the free way he is fast. our cars are not meant for straight line speed but they handle very nicely that's why i can keep up with him in the canyons but other than that i dont think i will ever be as fast as him, regardless of what i do.

[ballsdeep]

Our car boosted at 7psi run at about 240 WHP. I think a stock WRX puts out 224 Hp but its AWD so I think it would still be a tight race. Plus most WRX arent running stock you put a chip in there and they'll be right back to walkin away from us. I got smoked by a WRX the other day but I'm still stock. I would be happy just to be able to give a WRX a run for there money.

[sniperSI]

you have low expectaions my friend.

upgrade our interanls, please, mod for mod we can compete with a wrx, i mean hell a SI is basicaly an wrx without a turbo IMO.

I mean in regards to speed, droping wrx's i don't for see being an issues in the future.

Hell, see that cat who posted an older ek vic that was staying up with a viper? I mean damn, how can you not expect our cars to hang w/ a wrx w/ boost.

[sniperSI]

OK..


Let me put it this way.

If we get our cars turbo, we would compete if not beat a wrx.

This would in effect, bring our engines up to par with a wrx.

Now from this point on. Mod For Mod, i think we would run the wrx.

You keep neglecting the fact that wrx comes stock with a turbo, our cars do not. If we add a turbo on stock boost we would pretty much be even if not (most likely) walking away from wrx's.

So i think saying w/ a turbo, mod for mod, wrx's would be like focus svt are to us now.

Just good competition

[Makross]

How about a Evolution:o

[Rueda del Queso]

I think with the amount of money you would have to put into the ep to get it to the level of the LanEvo would be a little less than the price difference between the two. And since the LanEvo is AWD, has a kick ass LSD, verty tight suspension and a boat load of other stuff, you should just get a LanEvo. As was said before, our cars aren't really meant for draggin, they are meant for great handling. Besides, who cares if you can out drag someone? It has extremely little to do with skill and is more just a measure of how well the car is tuned. This is nice for seeing how your car compares, but you shouldn't tune your car with just dragging performance in mind. Turning is a hell of a lot more fun and challenging than going in a straight line.

[sniperSI]

yeah, but i rather have 300 whp to help rip me out of turns, rather then 160, call our car a handler all you want, it's not a very fast handler in comparison.

Bet we're gonna need an lsd though fo sho.

[Papa Bear]

The ep is definately not an excellent handler stock, but damn! when you throw on the mods and some decent shoes this car smokes. I had a '96 probe gt and I thought it handled well. I have scared myself in my ep because the car loves to go fast in sweeping and tight turns alike. The seats, steering wheel and shifter all enhance the experience of driving this car. It isn't the fastest, agreed, and the stereo sucks but it is still kinda quick. (reminds me of the probe but at least with the ep you can supercharge or turbo it. There was very little after-market goodies for the probe). I think in time I'm going to supercharge my car just to add even more fun to the equation.

[Tekdemon]

Adding a turbo would actually unbalance the handling a little because more weight would be distributed to the front of the car.........

that's my basic qualm with adding a turbo =p

However, if I drop a K24A2 with Euro-R cams and intake manifold in, do I/H/E then get a Hondata reflash...the weight difference would be less...

Plus then I think I'd just install the two subwoofers I have in the back to even out the weight again =P

I think the car'd be plenty quick like that...not quite insanely fast in a straight line like a turboed Si could be(see the stage II rsx-s!) but quick nonetheles...

[SpeedRacer]

Originally posted by sniperSI
yeah, but i rather have 300 whp to help rip me out of turns, rather then 160, call our car a handler all you want, it's not a very fast handler in comparison.

Bet we're gonna need an lsd though fo sho.

300hp comming out of a turn? ARE YOU DUMB? do you even do any canyon driving? you wouldn't be able to use 300whp comming out of a turn with our car. It is front wheel drive without LSD you will lose grip and fly off the mountain. Are car handles the canyons beautifully with the motor it has and no turbo. No doubt a turbo would be fun but it is not the best thing for canyon driving. Have you ever heard of Turbo LAG well that is what you will experience comming out of turns a hell of alot of lag. Power is not the most important thing in the canyon it is all about the driver 100% a good driver in A civic SI can take a WRX out in the canyons easy. WRX has a shitload of understeer which slows it down specially in the tight turns. Anyways are car handles great but you do need to lower it and get some tires.

[Rueda del Queso]

Turbo lag is a minor issue, just get a misfiring system and you will be all set ;-)

[sniperSI]

Originally posted by SpeedRacer


300hp comming out of a turn? ARE YOU DUMB? do you even do any canyon driving? you wouldn't be able to use 300whp comming out of a turn with our car. It is front wheel drive without LSD you will lose grip and fly off the mountain. Are car handles the canyons beautifully with the motor it has and no turbo. No doubt a turbo would be fun but it is not the best thing for canyon driving. Have you ever heard of Turbo LAG well that is what you will experience comming out of turns a hell of alot of lag. Power is not the most important thing in the canyon it is all about the driver 100% a good driver in A civic SI can take a WRX out in the canyons easy. WRX has a shitload of understeer which slows it down specially in the tight turns. Anyways are car handles great but you do need to lower it and get some tires.

Who said anything about canyons. I live in florida, and we have no canyons here, and yes, hitting the I-4 on ramp at 80, coming out of the curve and punching it to the interstate, is more what i had in mind. Who the hell ever heard of a canyon in florida? are you dumb?

[CSMsi311]

You guys maybe forgetting that the Honda's were not designed for boost, unlike the WRX engine. Also, like someone said earlier it doesn't take much to untap even more power on a WRX. IMO mod for mod (after a turbo on the Si) the WRX is still gonna win.

You maybe able to beat a WRX with 7psi but your engine will most likely not as long as a WRX. Go to clubsi.com and read about how many people have blown their engine.

[Tenacious G]

Originally posted by Tenacious G
how about an STi?

:confused:

:D

i meant it would take an STi to smoke a WRX

[sniperSI]

Originally posted by CSMsi311
You guys maybe forgetting that the Honda's were not designed for boost, unlike the WRX engine. Also, like someone said earlier it doesn't take much to untap even more power on a WRX. IMO mod for mod (after a turbo on the Si) the WRX is still gonna win.

You maybe able to beat a WRX with 7psi but your engine will most likely not as long as a WRX. Go to clubsi.com and read about how many people have blown their engine.


I don't fully agree. Our cars run 5 psi stock boost, 2 bumps above that is not that much of a differance in regards to engine life, maybe i'm wrong someone correct me if so. Hell, a dc5 type R stock engine is 11.5 psi. (ahh wouldnt that be nice) Also those guys on clubsi boost the shit out of their cars, and it's not from running 2 points above stock boost, it's from running at 20 psi then back to 15, then to 25 then to 20. boost controls will f you up! They think the B in B series stands for BOOST, and they are right, but your right, it also stands for BLown


wrx's do have a ton of easily tapped power just waiting for someone to open her up. Your right about that, but it's really not that hard to get our cars to that speed level and beyond, for less then the price of the wrx from the dealer.

You just wait a year and see what some of these cat's on this site do to their cars. I wouldnt be suprised to see 300+ whp out of these engines as dailys

[CSMsi311]

Originally posted by sniperSI
I don't fully agree. Our cars run 5 psi stock boost,

What are you talking about 5 psi stock boost? All hondas right now have normally aspirated engines. No boost!!

I'm not saying you can't have a high-horsepower daily driver Honda, but your engine is not going to last a long ass time like it would if you left it alone. I know plenty of people with over 250 hp on BLOWN-series engines that are daily driven. But the fact is that you are placing more wear and tear on the engine.

[Rueda del Queso]

You can combat the wear and tear though by upgrading engine internals. This means forged, lower compression pistons, new valves, light-weight retainers and valve springs. With those mods your engine should be pretty safe with 7 psi boost and an increased redline as well.

[digitldlnkwnt]

I agree with sniper...just give it a little while to catch up..
and with regards to wrx...
Yes theres is untapped potential but at the end of the day the WRX guy is gonna be doing work to his car just as serious and expensive as we would to our cars.
With the same basic displacement...the potential to compete is there.
You guys should also see what TopFuel Japan did to an RSX-r running 496 hp with a 2.4 bore out. That car gets it ass beat for hours on end, and its still a viable fast car.
They did relativly little with regards to modding theengine and manged to get that power.
Just wait...in time WTX's will be a permanent RearView Mirror fixture:cool:

[MetRx]

Have any of you guys ever raced a WRX with your si? I have! I dont know what mods this guy had, but i know he left me far behind. It wasnt til 3rd gear that i was back on his bumper, and even then i dont know that he was giving it all he had. It was really sick to see how well those cars get outta the hole. If i didnt think id lose my ass so bad, id trade my car for a WRX. Another thing im afraid of, is the quality of the car. I've never heard anything about soob's so i dont know if they have the long life reputation the honda has.

Matt.

[digitldlnkwnt]

Originally posted by MetRx
. Another thing im afraid of, is the quality of the car. I've never heard anything about soob's so i dont know if they have the long life reputation the honda has.

Matt.

Funny you should say that...The only reason i would go WRX as opposed to LanEvo...Build Quality. Subaru is famous for making "kick my ass i love it" little cars, just as well as Honda. I know a plastics engineer who can also atest to the poor build quality of Mitsu from first hand assembly line experience.
Ask anyone about the Subaru Brat. ;)

[Yeller EP3]

I've seen subarus with 200,000 on um and still running strong!

[Vertigo]

Just sell the EP and get ya a NSX that does 4.02 0-60. Then bye-bye wrx.

[Civic03Si]

I used to have a EP and now i drive a EVO. IMHO i think it would take tons of money and time to get the EP to the EVO level. I dont mean just 1/4mile times i mean everything from handling-comfort. The EP is a super tight car for a civic but just wasnt designed to go fast. If honda gave us the K20a2 in the EP then i would say its a different story but the k20a3 wasnt cutting it for me.

[MetRx]

I love my civic, but id trade for a WRX in a heart beat. If i could get a dealer to buy my EP, id be driving my dream car right now. I raced a WRX, like i said above, i dont think i woulda touched that car even if i did have boost.

Matt

[vtecnrg]

IMHO, I have a friend with a WRX and while it is fast I don't think it is what everyone is making it out to be. He and I would race when I had my S2000 and we would run neck and neck. I think the EP3 with right mods, turbo, exhaust, etc. will give it a run for the money. The EP3 cost alot less and I think in the long run even with mods it will last longer and be more reliable. Not to mention it still cost the same or less.