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greenguy
05-05-2003, 03:19 PM
200W to work with.
two 10" Alpine type S (100W each) in a band pass Obcon box or
one 12" type R (200W rms) that is this
http://ecominet2.alpine-usa.com/img/asb/sbr-122cr.gif

Which would be best for our trunk?
Thanks!

BlackNRedSi
05-06-2003, 07:10 AM
what kind of box are you going to put the 1 12 into? is that what the picture is of?

if you go with 2 10s in bandpass....its going to thump real nice...

you do 1 12 in a ported, or sealed box its going to sound good, but may not sound as good as 2 10s in a bandpass box....

IMO i would go with 2 10s in stealth boxes to be fitted to the side of your trunk, so you have space left to put stuff back there...if you dont care about trunk space, go for the 2 10s....

Eric

mhx
05-06-2003, 08:02 AM
why not just get some bad ass components up front and reduce the weight.. the cars heavy enough!

BlackNRedSi
05-06-2003, 08:04 AM
u can do that if you want too...

some people like the thump tho...

greenguy
05-06-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by BlackNRedSi
what kind of box are you going to put the 1 12 into? is that what the picture is of?

if you go with 2 10s in bandpass....its going to thump real nice...

you do 1 12 in a ported, or sealed box its going to sound good, but may not sound as good as 2 10s in a bandpass box....

IMO i would go with 2 10s in stealth boxes to be fitted to the side of your trunk, so you have space left to put stuff back there...if you dont care about trunk space, go for the 2 10s....

Eric
Yes, that is the 12" that Alpine makes fitted with the box.
I have an OBCON sealed and ported box that fits two 10" in it, but it is heavy, and takes up space. Anything custom is too much $$$ as all my future mods nust fall within $5k, so my stereo budget is $2k and it looks like this:
Head- Alpine 9815
Amp- Alpine F450 (50w RMS x 4 + 200w x1)
XM Radio- Alpine
Door- Alpine typeR 6-1/2" w/ 1" components
rear- Alpine typeR 6-1/2" 2 way
Subs- well thats the question.
Wiring_ all monster cable low noise shit
Battery- Optima Yellow top.

I am going for total SQ and Alpine will give me that for a great
price. I know people have there opinions and will sugest other products, but this is what I am going with, so Please only sugest my delema on TWO 10" or ONE 12".
Thanks to all of you!







:* :* :*

BlackNRedSi
05-06-2003, 08:28 AM
Subs- well thats the question.

IMO i would go with the 12' JLw7 it is so sick, and if you put the right amp/wattage to it, it just SCREAMS soo loud, especially with its 3 1/2 excursion ....

i was going to suggest that one mean 15 inch MTX sub that puts out like 4000 watts max, but you said only 10 or 12s so thats my opinion!

WB

E.

greenguy
05-06-2003, 08:36 AM
Well the Amp I have selected due to budget and bang for buck, only has 200w RMS for the sub.
The 12" typeR wants 100~300w RMS
The 10" typeS wants I think 50~200w RMS each, so both are with in power requirements perfectley, but which would sound better in our trunk? The OBCON box kicks ass and thumps and bumps great, But I've been told that our hatch trunk will act like a box, so will the 12" be a better solution?

BlackNRedSi
05-06-2003, 08:41 AM
Yes, i would go with the 12, and our hatch does act like a box...it really does send out the bass through the car!

the only way i would go with 1 10 inch sub is if it was like a Eclipse or like the 10 inch JLw6v2.....you will be more happy with 1 12 than 1 10, just think about it for a second...

you can always put more bass coming out of 1 12 than 1 10...so if you dont want alot of bass one day coming out of the 12 just lower your bass eq, but if you want more bass coming out of your 10 than what you have, your shyte out of luck....

if you go the route of 10 inch subs, get @ least 2 of them to sound good....thats my opinion...

greenguy
05-06-2003, 09:23 AM
Yes, It would be TWO 10" as my box holds two 10".
I am leaning twords the 12" and sound proofing the hell out of the trunk and doors. Probally use spray foam in the rear seat area behind the plastic pieces. Not as crazy as Jdubs tho :D
Thanks Erik

BlackNRedSi
05-06-2003, 09:35 AM
:) its EriC :) i didnt see JayDubs whats his link for his pics?

Eric

greenguy
05-06-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by BlackNRedSi
:) its EriC :) i didnt see JayDubs whats his link for his pics?

Eric
My bad with the "k" I owe you a beer!
here is the link to JayDub's sound deadening

C1V1C
05-06-2003, 12:07 PM
This might be an alternative.

Phoenix gold - OCTANE-R 9.0:5

I know it is a entry level product line, but it is phoenix gold, cannot be wrong. Just come out though, so don't expect any reviews. I'll probably get 4 channel version for my components. later ........... in 2 months. ask Eric why .,.... :)

here is a link for the spec

http://www.phoenixgold.com/octane_r2/amplifiers.asp

Ivan

greenguy
05-06-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by C1V1C
This might be an alternative.

Phoenix gold - OCTANE-R 9.0:5

I know it is a entry level product line, but it is phoenix gold, cannot be wrong. Just come out though, so don't expect any reviews. I'll probably get 4 channel version for my components. later ........... in 2 months. ask Eric why .,.... :)

here is a link for the spec

http://www.phoenixgold.com/octane_r2/amplifiers.asp

Ivan
Nice looking amp! I bet its freeking expensive! Also has a "TAD" more juice than what I plan on running to my doors and rears.
Thanks for the link!
http://www.phoenixgold.com/octane_r2/images/bigimages/r9.0.5.jpg

C1V1C
05-06-2003, 12:43 PM
http://www.purecaraudio.com/product.asp?0=200&1=225&3=1767

around $360+shipping I think it is cheaper than alpine ..isn't it ?

BlackNRedSi
05-06-2003, 12:52 PM
if you cant spend alot, i know best buy has kenwood amps online for 179, 800 watt rated @ 560 thats not bad for a amp if you need something cheap, but not a crap amp...kenwood makes good amps...but whatever you do, dont get a Pyramid amp! :)

greenguy
05-06-2003, 01:58 PM
my list is posted above on what i plan on getting. all comes to under $2k.
thank you everyone!:)

C1V1C
05-06-2003, 03:21 PM
Here is what I got

Front A/D/S A36i or something - used $88
Rear Infinity reference - new $88
JL 300/2 300 Watt - used and hopefully running - $222
JL 10 W3v2 300 Watt - new - $125
Wiring for dual amp - EFX - $48

Will be getting it soon

Alpine 9807 - $225 Ikesound..com
Speaker wire + RCA - $50
JL 300/4 -new - $350

Total $1196

Etc + unexpected things + $200

Still under $1500 :D

Ebay is a good deal for now, except that bastard who never sent me my sub and I have to buy again.

You may want to think about it again, with 2K you can get 10w6v2 just like Eric. it adds 5 HP when thumping .... but 5 HP loss due to weight. hehehehe :)

Check Ikesound.com and purecaraudio.com, good palce to shop, pricewise, I don't know about customer service.

chunky
05-06-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by greenguy

Yes, that is the 12" that Alpine makes fitted with the box.
I have an OBCON sealed and ported box that fits two 10" in it, but it is heavy, and takes up space. Anything custom is too much $$$ as all my future mods nust fall within $5k, so my stereo budget is $2k and it looks like this:
Head- Alpine 9815
Amp- Alpine F450 (50w RMS x 4 + 200w x1)
XM Radio- Alpine
Door- Alpine typeR 6-1/2" w/ 1" components
rear- Alpine typeR 6-1/2" 2 way
Subs- well thats the question.
Wiring_ all monster cable low noise shit
Battery- Optima Yellow top.

I am going for total SQ and Alpine will give me that for a great
price. I know people have there opinions and will sugest other products, but this is what I am going with, so Please only sugest my delema on TWO 10" or ONE 12".
Thanks to all of you!







:* :* :*

One twelve. One 12" sub will be able to produce lower bass freqs than two 10's. It's kind of hard to explain, but it's true. The two 10" subs will be louder assuming equal wattage, and they will certainly provide more punch in the critical 35-50hz range, but, they will basically suck major balls for anything below 35hz. If you want sound quality, this is totally unacceptable. You need a sub that will get down to at least 30hz, and preferably lower. My setup currently has a single 12" sub that is capable of producing bass down to 20hz. Those are the kind of sound freqs that earthquakes make on your favorite DVD when played on a THX certified system. :D

Sorry to do this to you, but I'm gonna re-write your list a bit. You will thank me later if you take my suggestions.

Forget alpine subs. If you want quality, get Image Dynamics. A single 12" IDQ 12 d4 version 2 will run you about 200 bucks. That's a 12" sub, dual voice coil 4ohm/coil, with 250 watt RMS power handling. You really need to feed this sub more than 250 watts though.

I suggest a u.s. acoustics USX600d. It's a class D digital amp, makes 375watts x1 @ 2ohm. That's PERFECT for this sub. And it costs 157.99.

So far we're at 200+ 160 = 360 for sub + amp. I suggest you build your own box. Just follow the manufacturer's box volume reccomendations, and it's hard to go wrong. If you wanna do some thing special, I can help you.

Now for the interior speakers, Again, I suggest U.S. Acoustics amps, the usx4065 makes 65x4 @ 4ohm and costs 122.99 bucks. So the total you spend on amps is 280.99. LESS THAN #)) BUCKS!!! I have a usx 2080 powering the front speakers in my car, and it's awesome. I'm a loyal eclipse fan, but the USX2080 is a very clean amp, almost as clean as eclipse, but costs far far less. I'd compare it to rockford fosgate amps.

For wiring, I suggest Lightning audio. The best value in wiring and interconnects bar none. You wont find a better wire for less anywhere.

And for the components, do NOT skimp out on this area. You will regret it later if you're going for SQ. Before I can make any suggestions, I need to know what the budget is. If you're really serious about SQ, you'll just leave the back speakers out like I did. You end up with less reflected sound (out of phase) and more $$$ to spend on the front speakers. :) You could also step down to a 2 channel amp for the interior speakers which will save you even more $$$. You would then run the stock rear speakers off the head unit in the event that you have rear passengers.

The alpine head unit is okay, but for that much money, you can get an eclipse head unit with 8 volt preouts and a MUCH better DAC & DSP. The alpine only has 4 volt preouts. However, if you're set on being able to play MP3's, I suggest you stay with the alpine.

Surprise
05-06-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by chunky
Forget alpine subs. If you want quality, get Image Dynamics. A single 12" IDQ 12 d4 version 2 will run you about 200 bucks. That's a 12" sub, dual voice coil 4ohm/coil, with 250 watt RMS power handling. You really need to feed this sub more than 250 watts though.

Finally someone besides me mentions Image Dynamics!

If you are on a tight budget or want a little more flexibility I would also look at a 4 channel amp. You can find a lower rating amp per channel (less $) and power all of your speakers. Or if you decide to go with good components (that want a lot of power) you can bridge the front channels and the rear channel and send only the right channel to the bridged fronts and the left channel to the rear channels. This way you can have a lot of power for a little money, although the THD is higher for this arrangement than a good 2 channel. Just a thought.

If you are looking for SQ don't consider a bandpass.;)

chunky
05-06-2003, 10:18 PM
Wow. I just look on crutchfield.com to get an idea of the prices on some of the stuff you're looking at.

the head unit is 500 bucks, the amp is 500 bucks, the front component speakers are 250$ a pair, the rear speakers are 180 a pair. So that totals out to 1430$ + cost of the sub

Let's see, my sub/amp combo was 200 + 160 + 125 = 485$ and we still need front/rear speakers and a head unit.

Let's just assume you really like the alpine head unit, so we'll keep it at 500 bucks. so we're at 985 bucks with the front/rear speakers to go.

For 250$, you can get the focal polyglass V2 6.5 components. That puts us at 985 + 250 = 1235.

Then for the rear speakers, The focal 165CA which can be had for 135 bucks. so 1235 + 135 = 1370. No need to go all out on the rears, Like i said, you should turn them off when you are alone in the car, music will sound much much better. turn them on when people are sitting back there so they don't bitch. :)

So 60 bucks cheaper WITH the sub, which is 200$. So with my suggested arrangement you are saving 260$.

And it will sound better. :)

IceD out N CALI
05-06-2003, 10:24 PM
i'd go with 1 12. i got one jl audio w6 tuned to 26 hertz. sounds nice and deep and goes pretty loud. + it doesnt take up much space and not that heavy (for a box):)

Glix
05-06-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by greenguy
200W to work with.
two 10" Alpine type S (100W each) in a band pass Obcon box or
one 12" type R (200W rms) that is this
http://ecominet2.alpine-usa.com/img/asb/sbr-122cr.gif

Which would be best for our trunk?
Thanks!

bandpass in an open trunk is really hard to handle, well for me anyway. It's overkill, unless of course that's what you're after.

Hmmn maybe you should listen to my system again and then make your choice. My system is done and sounds very different from the last time you heard it. That and I want to check out your exhaust! :)

BlackNRedSi
05-07-2003, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
i'd go with 1 12. i got one jl audio w6 tuned to 26 hertz. sounds nice and deep and goes pretty loud. + it doesnt take up much space and not that heavy (for a box):)

i agree 1 12 w6V2JL with a alpine deck, and either bostons or mbs as your highs

chunky
05-07-2003, 07:38 AM
and oh yeah, fuck bandpass. Bandpass is good only if you're at a competition where the winner is determined by who can hit a particular freq the hardest.

A good ported box is the way to go if you want volume & quality.

BlackNRedSi
05-07-2003, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by chunky
and oh yeah, fuck bandpass. Bandpass is good only if you're at a competition where the winner is determined by who can hit a particular freq the hardest.

A good ported box is the way to go if you want volume & quality.

and plus a bandpass box is going to take up ALOT of your trunk, prolly all of it....our cars are too small for a bandpass box, i mean you can fit it, but there is no real reason....
i agree with chunky!

IceD out N CALI
05-07-2003, 08:15 AM
+ (to me at least) the bandpass box sounds too boomy, kinda cheap IMO. u get a good ported box and you'll get nice quality lows outta your sub(s)

greenguy
05-07-2003, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Glix


bandpass in an open trunk is really hard to handle, well for me anyway. It's overkill, unless of course that's what you're after.

Hmmn maybe you should listen to my system again and then make your choice. My system is done and sounds very different from the last time you heard it. That and I want to check out your exhaust! :)
When do you want to meet up? School is almost out so my afternoons will be free. Let Me know!

greenguy
05-07-2003, 08:46 AM
CHUNKY!
Thanks for the advise! It is being considered highley! My mind changes on a minute by minute basis.
I want sound quality. Not HIGH volume. I was going with Alpine due to quality and relatively inexpensive.
My Budget is $2k.
I wantthe alpine due to its features, XM radio and mp3/wma features.
Thanks again.

chunky
05-07-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by greenguy
CHUNKY!
Thanks for the advise! It is being considered highley! My mind changes on a minute by minute basis.
I want sound quality. Not HIGH volume. I was going with Alpine due to quality and relatively inexpensive.
My Budget is $2k.
I wantthe alpine due to its features, XM radio and mp3/wma features.
Thanks again.

feel free to hit me up on aim (it's in my profile) and I can give you some links to places to buy stuff for cheap. Also, if you're installing yourself, I've got some tips on how to run the wires. :)

Glix
05-07-2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by greenguy
CHUNKY!
Thanks for the advise! It is being considered highley! My mind changes on a minute by minute basis.
I want sound quality. Not HIGH volume. I was going with Alpine due to quality and relatively inexpensive.
My Budget is $2k.
I wantthe alpine due to its features, XM radio and mp3/wma features.
Thanks again.

If you want sound quality then sealed is the only way to go.
I'll PM you with phone # and e-mail address.

chunky
05-07-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Glix


If you want sound quality then sealed is the only way to go.
I'll PM you with phone # and e-mail address.

I think that's a somewhat dated philosophy.

It really only applies if your subwoofer is pushing frequencies higher than 150hz. But with the increased freq range of 6.5" speakers, most higher end systems are crossed over below 100hz. At frequencies below 100hz, sealed enclosures begin to distort sooner than ported enclosures. The frequency falloff is still smoother with the sealed boxes, but with a ported box, you can delay the falloff altogether until well after 35hz depending on the driver you choose.

Todays woofers also have MUCH better spyders & surrounds which shifts the duties of cone control from the enclosure. Meaning you can retain fidelity while having a ported box.