View Full Version : Update on K20A swap
still not finished.. the motor is mounted in and everything is pretty much back together. ran into a few problems/ differences.
-1) JDM header is a 4-2 design, the JDM down pipe (which i dont have) is a 2-1 design. if i would have gotten the JDM downpipe, it still wouldnt have fit, b/c it would have hit the sway bar, JDM is a little different. i am still waiting on the downpipe to be shipped to me (doesnt look like the guy shipped it, but i may be wrong, cant get in touch with him)
-2) my idiotic self, accidentally sent off my A/C compressor to Bioevolve, he was very cool about it and shipped it back asap with no problem(thanks Rich) i got it in yest and got most of the work done.
-3) another stupid mistake by me. i went to acura and asked for manual tranny fluid. they gave me auto tranny fluid by mistake and i didnt realise it until i allready put it in. now i got to go back and re do it. (remember, i am working 11 hour days, then going to work on my car after that for 5 or so hours, so im working with very little sleep and am making dumb mistakes, lol)
-4) JDM doesnt have cruise control, so if i wanted it, i would need a USDM throtle body, i just left it off.
-5) the USDM throttle cable it too long (havnt decided what to do yet, but i will fix it tonight.
-6) it didnt come with the Air Temperature Sensor (little black sensor that plugs into the intake. also, there is only 1 breather hose that plugs into the intake (that shouldnt matter)
-7) there are a couple of minor differences in the wireing.. a few coolant relays that are on the USDM version ar not on the JDM. i will have pics up as soon as i am done.
i will keep you guys informed. in the meantime, i have to figure out what i am going to do with this header/d-pipe thing
03hatch
05-07-2003, 12:53 PM
:eek:
Tenacious G
05-07-2003, 01:00 PM
oh, i feel soooo sorry for you and your K20A engine.
:'(
j/p as i will never have the money or time to do a swap (not to mention expertise)
IceD out N CALI
05-07-2003, 01:34 PM
i guess u had to expect a few things different being jdm and all. but dayum its going to be the bomb when it is done:) :cool:
Makross
05-07-2003, 03:23 PM
Goodluck man keep us posted
jaydub
05-07-2003, 03:43 PM
I'm crying for you! :p
http://www.dubfusion.com/tehfunny/honda_boohoo.jpg
:D Good luck though, I'm sure you'll have everything smoothed out soon.
RacingCivicSi02
05-07-2003, 04:01 PM
Good luck. Hope everything turns out fine.
ShowstoppersUSA
05-07-2003, 04:26 PM
Damn P-dog, now you can whine all you want. Hope everything turns out fine!
Rocky
Showstoppers USA
bioevolve
05-07-2003, 05:16 PM
You're Welcome Port.
Pretty soon he'll want his motor back hehehehe j/k I'm keeping it:p If ya got anymore questions or parts, LMK. I got both the Shop manuals, still can't find a JDM shop manual in english yet:(
AznPower
05-07-2003, 10:14 PM
damn good luck. hopefully it will be worth it in the end.
ULTRAMANIA
05-07-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by AznPower
damn good luck. hopefully it will be worth it in the end.
i'm pretty sure it will be WELL worth it for him in the end...
ADAMnQuickCIVIC
05-08-2003, 08:37 AM
what is the octane requirement of your JDM K20?
hope you dont have to sepend $4.50/gallon.
:o
sniperSI
05-08-2003, 04:30 PM
I think it's awesome all the problems you are running into. When you are done, the knowledge you will have to give, and gained about your car in and out will be as great as the time you will have driving your Type R
minimay7
05-08-2003, 04:49 PM
Wow... I didn't know k20a swap involved this much pain.
Good thread though... Keep us updated about your upgrade. I am sure it will be all worth it when you finally pull up next to some clueless Si driver and you ditch them so hard while he/she wonders why your engine sounds different.
IceD out N CALI
05-08-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by ADAMnQuickCIVIC
what is the octane requirement of your JDM K20?
hope you dont have to sepend $4.50/gallon.
:o
i thought it was 98, but i could be mistaken
Mugen_EP
05-08-2003, 05:27 PM
It can run fine off 91 octane. JDMhondaparts is doing it.
It can run fine off 91 octane. JDMhondaparts is doing it this is correct. i run no lower than 93 here. if i can find 100 i will run it..... or i will just get some of that super cool NOS octane booster.. cause it make you fly yo!
*update*
throtle cable fix.. i found the metal bracket off of my old A3 laying around. on this bracket, there are 2 pieces to hold 1)cruise control cable, and 2)throtle cable. the JDM bracket only has one piece to hold the throtle (since there is no cruise control) and its smaller than the USDM version. all i did was put the A3 bracket on. only problem is that the bracket holds the cable a little bit to the left of the throtle body. kind of like if you ran your throtle cable from the bracket to the spot where the cruis control goes. this is not a big deal, will not do any harm, but its just temp until i get the cable fixed.
the air temp sensor is taken car of and will arive tomorrow. (thanks again rich;) )
the tranny fluid was changes, i made acura give me free fluid.
the only problem i have now is the d-pipe. its suposed to be on its way, but it hasnt gotten here yet. i was soooo close to just ordering the jackson racing race header. either way i have to get my exaust redone from the cat back b/c it will not bolt up to the SI exaust pipes. i will be going with 2.5 in pipe.
the car is completely back together with the exception of the d-pipe. tonight i am going to re-wire the harness to bypass the imobilizer (yes i know how to defeat it:D ) and AND CRANK THAT BAD BOY UP!!!!!!!!!!
bioevolve
05-08-2003, 06:57 PM
Alright Port, way to adapt and emprovise ;) I did the same thing with the A2 bracket switching to A3 one. Can't wait to hear how fast it is now:p You're gonna have to take me for a ride if your trip goes threw;)
okay.. everythin is done,with the exception of the d-pipe. engine starts and everything. its LOUD AS HELL running on open headers.. sounds like a funny car... i got to et that d-pipe in! i re-wired the ECU to bypass the immobilizer. wich s good b/c i saved money, but bad b/c there is a way to bypass them lol. so i will not tell anyone (unless its an emergency for fear of this getting out.) i will let u guys know how it is when i get the pipe and drive it. im going to shower now heh
fsugatorbait
05-09-2003, 09:30 AM
damn, you d'man port keep the updates comin...any idea on when the d-pipe is expected to arrive?
02-sir
05-09-2003, 01:50 PM
nice work port. So Hondata still can't reflash your JDM ECU? what ECU are you using?
i am using the JDM ECU. Hondata will not flash the JDM ECU. they say their program will not work with it. i had to bypass the immobilizer to get it to work.
02-sir
05-09-2003, 02:01 PM
so if Hondata could reflash it, you wouldn't need to bypass the immobilizer??
Sorry, I'm a little slow sometimes LOL!
actually, i dont think that hondata can bypass it. i just wanted the hondata ITR flash. wither way, i would have had to do this.
Civic03Si
05-09-2003, 02:19 PM
Just curious why you went wit the jdm engine when you already had the k20a2 in, cause isnt the type r just 20 more horses? Also since you leave in LA isnt it a pain to pass smog? Either way im just jealous:p
La meaning New Orleans Louisiana heh
no body cars about emmisions here:p
there are a bunch of differences in the two motors. i am at work so i cant list them all, maybe someone else will see this and do it for me hehe if not ill list it later
02-sir
05-09-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by PoRT
La meaning New Orleans Louisiana heh
no body cars about emmisions here:p
there are a bunch of differences in the two motors. i am at work so i cant list them all, maybe someone else will see this and do it for me hehe if not ill list it later
yeah I agree. The lightened chromo flywheel and LSD are worth it alone, add to that a the FD gear, cams, 11.5 pistons, and larger IM and it becomes a no brainer (especially if you plan on staying N/A) there are probably even more differences, but those are the only ones I know about.
Dunrick
05-09-2003, 05:22 PM
10 more trq than that k20a2 - 20 more hp....
plus the fact taht you can say you have a ITR under the hood....
thats priceless
Port you are making me want to put the last K20a I have in my car! I'm glad that it is all working out for you. Please post a pic or two! Sleep depravation getting to you ?
JMI@JapanMotorImport.com
ok.. header/downpipe resolved. i will get some pics up soon.. im sorry guys, had to borrow cameras and i on their time frame to get them Downloaded. well.. i am officially broke, and in the hole to be honest. since noone had the jackson racing race header in stock, i had to go with this...
http://jdmhondaparts.com/vision/vision.k20-downpipe.jpg
SiMecoming
05-12-2003, 01:19 PM
ok now that you got the downpipe in what are you going to do about the sway bar sinceits going to hit it.....and that is the JDM downpipe that jdmhondaparts.com sells or whats the model of that downpipe. Im also doing the k20a conversion with a few other lil things. my motor gets here in 5 weeks! so i wanna know how to remedy some stuff cause ill ve doing the install as well. I e-mailed you too Port with some ?'s
the vision technica d-pipe will fit our sway bars. i found that out today. i was also told that with this d-pipe and the jdm header, i will make as much gains as the JR race header, but with more low end. infortunatly, i have nothing to compare it to since it is all going in at one time. i will check my email and get back with you.
SiMecoming
05-12-2003, 01:46 PM
Awsome glad to hear that didnt want to have to buy another front sway bar.....LOL i like my progress one. My only problem i know im going o run into is ill have a turbo on my A3 b4 i install this engine with all its internal goodies. Im going to need a turbo manifold that will work.....do they make turbo manifolds for the k20ar yet?
im sure they do, get in touch with cybernation and see what they have availible.
SiMecoming
05-12-2003, 02:05 PM
Well if the turbo system from f-max that im going to get made for al the ep's will bolt right up to the k20a-r id be really happy! And i dont need the vison technica downpipe either so my sway bar stays anyways.....*YAY* The whole exhaust aspect is what i need to learn a lil more about with turbos and i guess ill jsut have to also wait n see what happens when it all gets done. cant wait to see some picture and dyno charts and times off your motor swap! I have a lot to look forwards too *YAY*:eek:
**UPDATE** everything is done. exaust is bolted up.. cost me $150 to get the exaust done.
minor problems
-Vision D-pipe fits, but rests against the sway bar, not too bad at all, but i notice i feel it more in turns, i will either buy a new sway bar.. or i might try to put the j's racing engine damper on and see if i can push the motor a milimeter or 2 off of the sway bar (doubt this will work, but if it does.. sorry rich man, wont be able to sell it.. but i dont think it will work, i just have to wait till its in.
-Idiots that did my last exaust left the resonator off(i found this out after the fact and it was too late) so when i put this D-pipe on, it doesnt have a cat.. i went up to 2.25 in piping, more power on the motor, AND IT IS VERY LOUD! much too loud. i need to get a resonator or something.. or maybe rig it for now with a cherry bomb or something.. those work ok for noise damping.
-rear o2 sensor was too short, i just spliced into it and made it longer.
-MAIN PROBLEM.. i came straight from the muffler shop to my work (i was 1 hour late) and noticed that when i accelerate, there is a clunking sound, small one, but its there. i am thinking its either the engine mount, or the axle mount. i dont see how it would be these since i torqued them myself, but hey, maybe i missed something. i will find out later tonight what it is.
like i said, i only drove it for a couple of minutes, but it felt strong. still trying to figure out if its faster than the A2 i had. i think it is a little faster, but would be close (i miss hondata.. V-Tec kicks in at like 5700 or 5900 or something like that.. way to late. hondata was at 53 or 54 i think. makes a big difference believe it or not. --- L.S.D. havnt tested it yet, will know later tonight after i get the "clunk" out. did i mention its TOO DAMN LOUD!
last thing. if i am not making sense right now, or am misspelling words, its because i finally finished installing the Vision D-Pipe at like 3:30 am last night. (had problems with the JDM header, needed to find all night hardware store for fine threaded studs) by the time i cleaned up around mu buddies garage, it was around 4am. got home 4:30, showered, its now 5am. got into bed, after eating, 5:45. since i had to leave at 7:30am to get to the muffler shop in time to get the exaust put on and make it to work in time, i decided to stay up.. so im working on like 3 hours of sleep in the last 3-4 days. i am delerious lol. sorry for rambling, lets recap my expenses.....
-JDM Motor and tranny swap------------------------------------$6k
-Shipping on motor and tranny----------------------------------$350.00
-Vision JDM D-Pipe--$580+$80 shipping next day air-------$660.00
-Air temp sonsor---------with next day air---------------------$40.00
-Shipping on A/C compressor(thanks again rich)------------$80.00
-Exaust re-done----------------------------------------------------$150.00
-E.S. motor mounts inserts--------------------------------------$20.00
-New serpentine (sp?) belt--------------------------------------$20.00
-Mobile 1 5w30 motor oil/acura filter---------------------------$40.00
-Acura manual tranny fluid---------------------------------------$15.00
-Rent for using buddies garage and tools for 3 weeks-----$300.00
-miselanious tools/hardware------------------------------------$25.00
-case of beer for most of the nights we worked-------------$100.00
TOTAL ----------------------------------------------------------------$7800
Driving around with K20A Type R-------------------- PRICELESS!!!
SiMecoming
05-14-2003, 10:50 AM
Right on PoRT cant wait to do mine when it finally gets here. I talked to Hondata about my set up using that bored out k24 block told me to stick with the USDM ecu, because running 8500 rpms off the bored out k24 block might be a lil too much for it on a constant basis. Unless of course i build it up pretty damn well which i should be doing. Doug also suggested gettng the RC Engineering 550 saturated injectors. (u might wanna look into those as well). So you have the JDM ECU in so ur stuck stopping at 112mph? Also hey do you know if their is a way to reprog the USDM ecu to get a higher rpm range? Hondata said they can give me a custom flash after the turbo and everything for 1400 -1700 bucks :eek: but only being able to handle lower boost! who wants to run low boost. But anyways cant wait till i get my engine and tranny and everything here so i can start asking you ?'s LOL :D . But gotta take some pix man cant wait to see what it looks like in there even tho it prob aint tht big of a diff besides the cover.
King Kang
05-14-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by SiMecoming
Doug also suggested gettng the RC Engineering 550 saturated injectors. (u might wanna look into those as well).
I heard that using bigger injectors will help compensate for the general lack of 100 octane in the US....don't know about anyone whose done this yet though. My friend will have his JDM WRX motor in later this summer......that's where I got this info.
Good for you PoRT, I really wish I had the money to make that swap!
SiMecoming
05-14-2003, 11:20 AM
yes i believe so King Kang also Doug said it will help you know what here is what DOug wrote me.....LOl easier this way:
Use the stock US ECU. The K24 block will need to be well built to handle 8500 continuously especially with the capacity increase. RC engineering will soon have some 550 saturated injectors that work very well. Use those and it will cut your tuning time.
Drop the polish for the intake side. Rough flows better.
A custom flash would be possible. The car would need to be brought here for tuning. Price would be $600 + $150 an hour. Expected time 5-7 hours
Our boost programs are prototype and work better for lower rather than higher boost levels. We could do you a 550 cc injector program to get the car driveable. As long as you kept off boost you could drive it here.
damn ECU FLASH 1400-1700 but would be well worth it....LOL :D
Skunk2EP
05-14-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by King Kang
I heard that using bigger injectors will help compensate for the general lack of 100 octane in the US....swap!
Octane boosters work as well........
ULTRAMANIA
05-14-2003, 01:39 PM
sweet as hellllll... keep us updated with your updates.. heh..
bioevolve
05-14-2003, 03:09 PM
Port, maybe in the next 2 months we can race each other:D I should have a secret weapon ready by then hehehehe.
ok, the results are in.. the K20A is definatly faster than the A2 was. i know the Vision D-pipe with the JDM exaust manifold are suposed to make real good power (sorry no numbers) and with the intake, lightened flywheel, shorter gearing, and the L.S.D. its incredible. i dont want to drive it too much b/c i have to order a new front sway bar. the d-pipe is hitting it. i will be at the track soon and post some numbers for you guys. the pics are also coming soon.-- Tim
SiMecoming
05-14-2003, 10:48 PM
Awsome port congrats on that man. I have a ? for you tho man. I told you what i planned on doing already. I have contact hondata about getting a ecu flash. i got this e-mail from Doug today.
> Thanks for your input Doug and advice it is greatly appreciated. While I sit
> back and save up for the custom flash that I most likely would need and will
> be getting. You feel my USDM ECU will be all right for my application.
Yes
> would you suggest to help stabilize the K24 block to help it accept the 8500
> rpms on a somewhat continuous basis? So after my build up am I able to get a
> flash done so I can run the car at 8500 rpms instead of the USDM 7200 and
> allow me to run a turbo application. Or is there a way to work the USDM ECU
> to get it to allow me to go up to 8500rpms or am I definitely going to need
> to get a custom ECU FLASH right away so everything will work together 100%.
We can't help with the block building. Talk to AEBS San Diego if you want it
done right.
You are so far away from any standard spec no existing program will work for
your application. As a rule we do not tune for people. As for rev limit, we
can set anywhere you want.
> Also you said your turbo flashes are prototypes right now meant for small
> levels of boost, is your company planning on making a flash that will accept
> a larger amount of boost.
Yes about 11.5 lb.
Eventually I want to run higher then 12lbs of
> boost. Sorry for all the? s I appreciate all the help.
> Thank you for also informing me also about the RC Engineering 550 saturated
> injectors. And I should just drop the polish and keep the port?
Shape the port properly and there will be improvements. Leave a slightly
rough surface and do not polish. Which flys further - a smooth golf ball or
a dimpled one.
The K20 engine revs higher due to the shorter stroke.
Regards,
Doug Macmillan
http://www.hondata.com
Port b4 i call AEBS in San Diego do you have any suggestion as to what i can do to stablize my block? Also think ill be able to run my USDM ECU with everything working right until i can get up to Hondata and get a custom tune job thats seriosuly going to put me into the poor house. But well worth it tho when im flying down the track!
IceD out N CALI
05-14-2003, 10:54 PM
congrats port, cant wait to see how she does at the track
bioevolve
05-15-2003, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by PoRT
**UPDATE** or i might try to put the j's racing engine damper on and see if i can push the motor a milimeter or 2 off of the sway bar (doubt this will work, but if it does.. sorry rich man, wont be able to sell it.. but i dont think it will work, i just have to wait till its in.
PRICELESS!!!
Not a problem mon, just keep us updated and I wanna see 13's timeslips :p :D
nah rich, you can still have it man, i have to get a sway bar now.
and SImcoming... let me think about your situation for a little wile. i want to put some serious thought into what i would try. ill get back with you
SiMecoming
05-15-2003, 02:39 PM
Sweet Port i appreciate it. I have overcomed my ECU and electrical problem. According to Hondata anda Doug i will be using my USDM ecu and running N/A for a week or so and then we will flash it with a prototype low level boost flash. The i will drive out to see them and have fun for 5-7 hrs tunning my engine for higher levels of boost and that 8500rpm!
Next hurddle making sure my k24 block can with stand the power i am going to be throwing at it.....thats pretty much it just gotta get all my parts here i hate waiting!
OH YEAH TRANNY UPGRADES! Port you know anyone who makes a clutch and fly wheel up grade and possibly a tranny kit for the jdm k20a-r?
SiMecoming
05-15-2003, 02:53 PM
OK engine stability finsihed! Talked to Ben over at AEBS of San Diego, Ca man the projects they gto going on for HASport man holy shit!
But to get my k24 block working well. it need to be resleeved and ill have a 88mm bore i believe, 50cc, and a 2449 displacement. Thats about 1400-1500. Custom 9:1 compression FI pistons $650 complete set rings and all. Custom Rods- $690. They can even do my 5 angle port head job! So that matter solved i have to find myself a wrecked CRV from the rear or side no head on collision shit.....LOL
Man gotta love when things come together and companies like ur project and tell you who u need to talk to....
Mroby
06-30-2003, 11:56 AM
What's up everyone? I'm currently putting a K20A into my RSX. I just wanted to pop in and say hello. I'm having 2 problems with my swap. First Is trying to get the JDM throttle body to accept the springs and rigging from the USDM one so I can keep cruise control. Also Why does the JDM K20A not have a VTEC oil pressure switch? How does it work without one?
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