Sent TB to Kingmotorsports.com

[bioevolve]

Sent out my TB today to kingmotorsports for the Big Bore, I'll get it back Friday. I overnighted it to them and they will overnight back to me, bad part is the 3 day turn around since they are backed up:(
While the TB is out I did the Coolant By-Pass.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pe7c30519bc5ff7e3b973143c4f1641e9/fc0a4a5d.jpg
Man, there is alot to prepare for TURBO ;) :p

[02SilverSiHB]

sweet. How much did they charge you? Is it going to be 64mm? I think that's the max we can go on ours right?

[c0mf0rt]

How about the coolant bypass.... I did that to my '95 and the idle was screwed up from that point on.... have you had to do anything else to the EP to make it run properly with that mod????

[bioevolve]

$150 + shipping
Whatever the factory size is + 4mm bigger bore,bigger butterfly, adjusted TPS sensor, bead blasted and polished.
By-Pass part, I don't know if it's working cuz my TB is in the mail. I will know when I get it back and back on. I would guess bad idle in cold climates? But the weather is hot all the time here.

[mhx]

whats the et whp on this mod?

[bioevolve]

Guessing 2-4 whp for stock setup, more for built up NA motors and FI.

[fishboy]

how long will it take for them to get the TB back to you? edit: forget it. friday

[Jodster]

Is the A3 and A2 TB the same? Would it have been better for you to just buy the Spoon TB?

[fsugatorbait]

Whats the core charge if you need your car for everyday driving?

[JSIR]

I've run the car in very cold weather with the bypass mod and the idle is not a problem. In warm weather it works even better, same as stock setup in terms of idle quality. no problems here.

Keep us posted on the actual size of the throttle body throttle plate when you get it back. 4mm over sounds too big from what we found, I dont think you can go that big at the plate. 2mm over was all we could do. keep us posted though.

Joey

[fishboy]

pics of the spoon throttle body, from ebay.;) edit: 4mm over

from this
http://spoon.jp/images/lineup/019_04.jpg

to this
http://spoon.jp/images/lineup/019_03.jpg


http://spoon.jp/images/lineup/019_01.jpg

can you break it by tightening your intake hose too tight? it looks so fragile.

[JSIR]

you can break the leading edge by dropping it, I've had that happen before on very tapered TB's such as that. They can also crack over time as well, the metal is very soft and brittle. But they should not crack from tightening the intake hose.

With the Spoon TB , it maintains the stock bore at the throttle plate, so I think it is useless despite the nice taper.

Joey

[fishboy]

Originally posted by JSIR


With the Spoon TB , it maintains the stock bore at the throttle plate, so I think it is useless despite the nice taper.

Joey

yeah, i've heard that somewhere before. good thing i was able to get confirmation from you. 420 dollars for this mod when you can pay 150 to get your stocker bored out doesn't seem sensible to me.

[JSIR]

Originally posted by fishboy


yeah, i've heard that somewhere before. good thing i was able to get confirmation from you. 420 dollars for this mod when you can pay 150 to get your stocker bored out doesn't seem sensible to me.

Absolutely correct. On my throttle body we kept the general thickness at the leading edge, but I had them put a radius shape on the leading edge. So it has an air-horn look to it, rounded edge. Good for air flow and still strong enough to last.

Joey

[bioevolve]

Originally posted by fsugatorbait
Whats the core charge if you need your car for everyday driving?
They won't do a core charge, I already asked them that.

[Suk02Si]

What's the coolant bypass trick? I understand the concept but did I miss the thread that discussed it?:o

[i-WERKS]

JSIR,

Where did you get yours done?
How much and do you think this mod is worth it?

[bioevolve]

This some weird sheet, Kingmotorsports calls me today saying they will charge me a core charge with the new bored TB?!?!?! They should be getting my TB this morning, cuz they are closed on Saturday. Funny how one person says yes we do core charges and another says we don't. I'm not bashing them, just confused about answers I get from different people that work there. I got one email from them a week ago stating they have TB's bored and ready to ship out in stock?!?!?!?
Anyways, They will ship it today or tomorrow, depending on what time they get my TB today. I had them Next day it to me when they do, I can't have my car down for a week ;) It's already been down for 3.5 days now.

TB By-Pass is when you bypass the hot coolant going into the TB.
To keep TB cooler for more power, a free mod.
But it aids in cold startup idles, so it might not be good for some people who want correct idle. But if you live in a hot area, like me, it's no big deal.

[SHAKEnBAKE]

Great keep us posted!:)

[fsugatorbait]

how much is the core charge?

[02blksi]

sweet keep me posted on this mod, let me know if you think it was worth the $$


By the way, how is everyone? :) - Joe .whose been away for a bit.

[JSIR]

Originally posted by i-WERKS
JSIR,

Where did you get yours done?
How much and do you think this mod is worth it?

I got mine done by some friends of mine, at Forest and Forest Racing in Kitchener, On. It cost me $150 Cdn, but they are friends of mine. They did a great job with mine. Probably about $200 to others I would suspect.

If you are in Toronto there is a great machine shop up there that does Honda TB's - Leitner and Bush, I would probably use them if I lived in TO.


Joey

[bioevolve]

Got confirmation that my TB was recieved by Kingmotorsports and new TB has been sent back to me Next Day air. I will be getting tomorrow :D, I forgot to ask how much core would have been, sorry. Just give them a call (262) 593-2800.
This week, not only the bored TB will be back. I should be getting in this week: VIS CF Hood, Neuspeed Front Upper Tie bar, Spoon Rear Upper Tie bar, AEM Pulley kit and HO50 Crank Pulley Tool. I will have all pics up when I get them all on, including the Skunk2 Rear Lower Tie bar from last week. Oh, new power supply for my desktop computer, which crapped out last week :p

[02SilverSiHB]

pulley kit? for how many pulleys? two?

[Makross]

sweet keep us posted:o

[bioevolve]

Originally posted by 02SilverSiHB
pulley kit? for how many pulleys? two?
From the place I ordered it from states, Crank, alt, and power steering pulley for the Type-S kit. For the EP kit its only the ALT pulley.

[bioevolve]

Got back TB today :D Its tappered 68.5mm inlet to 65mm outlet, which the Intake Manifold is also 65mm inlet, so no port matching :D (my dial caliper is plastic so it might not be accurate)here are some pics.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p25df2d666a95b451210419d98ebca1ae/fc02a370.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p90c937b03571b1e6e8da5e21d0ffc8b1/fc02a348.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p82cdb27c2401f05e3f259c6074fbcfeb/fc02a31a.jpg

[bioevolve]

Notice the new bigger Brass colored butterfly
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p10b684e64fee80bdfeda780f8d2fed2c/fc02a2f0.jpg
The TB gasket came apart alittle bit, sent it with the TB, cuz it was stuck on there pretty good. Thinking they would send me a new one with the TB, but they didnt :( Oh well, no time to buy another gasket so I used some High Temp RED RTV (my fav.)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p34a793883c9512cee9f977138c0fb858/fc02a2d2.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/pa58a5d83409268ea30402cf5e4c245e0/fc02a2b7.jpg
Dont assume yours will be that quick of return, cuz I sent mine next day air to them and I also had them next day air it back to me. Cost of less down time :( So that is why you have back up parts handy if you cant afford your car being down. So buy my stuff here CLICK ME :D (http://ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14241)

[JSIR]

hmmm, you got yours up to 65mm, are you sure about that measurement ?, cause the stock manifold is 64mm. My TB is 64mm, but that extra 1mm would be nice.

looks nice.

Joey

[bioevolve]

The A3 IM and TB is 64mm, I'm A2 motor (Type-S motor swapped). But they both might the same 64mm stock, like I said, I'm using a cheap plastic dial caliper so my readings might be off alittle.
Anyone with an accurate measurement of both the stock IM and TB of both A2 & A3, please post it. TIA!

[!@#$%]

it should be just a hair under 65mm. The clubrsx guys measure 64.8mm on theirs.

[bioevolve]

I don't feel any difference in power, since its a small increase. No change in sound, Idle is down 50-100 rpms (might be my imagination hehehe). But will help, every ounce of power is good.

[fsugatorbait]

Since you didnt feel a difference in power and the end result was a 1mm over bore from 64mm to roughly 65mm would you recommend this mod or would you do it again if you had the chance? Was interested in this but if it doesnt yield any gains on the butt dyno I might have to rethink, however, Id appreciate your opinion.
Phil

[bioevolve]

I would do it again, especially if I went FI or radical NA, that is where it will REALLY get better gains. But If you don't do any of those, the throttle bore is not for you.

[fsugatorbait]

Just FMI would the spoon TB at 70mm do any good on our car? Im curious how the gains from that would be?

[bioevolve]

Probably the same gains without radical engine mods or FI.

[fsugatorbait]

K, thanks for the info. Have you had a chance to get to a track yet with your new engine or are you planning to anytime soon? Very interested to see what type of #'s you'll be putting down. Thanks for all the info.
Phil

[bioevolve]

Maybe next Wednesday with Steve (SSVR6) if he goes and if weather premits and if I can get the time off from work.

[JSIR]

the stock throttle body is 62mm for the Si and the RSX-S. The inlet on the intake manifold is 64mm (by my measurements) which sounds right 'cause Honda typically makes their manifold inlets 2mm over the stock throttle body size. Thus his upgraded throttle body is 2-3mm over stock depending on how accurate the measuring device is. When I had mine done the engine felt stronger at all rpms and it was also more responsive, plus the dyno numbers proved it as well. Mine was only 2mm over, so it was a decent gain for the relatively small amount of increase. 65mm would be even better I think, if his measurement was correct.

Joey

[fsugatorbait]

Originally posted by JSIR
the stock throttle body is 62mm for the Si and the RSX-S. The inlet on the intake manifold is 64mm (by my measurements) which sounds right 'cause Honda typically makes their manifold inlets 2mm over the stock throttle body size. Thus his upgraded throttle body is 2-3mm over stock depending on how accurate the measuring device is. When I had mine done the engine felt stronger at all rpms and it was also more responsive, plus the dyno numbers proved it as well. Mine was only 2mm over, so it was a decent gain for the relatively small amount of increase. 65mm would be even better I think, if his measurement was correct.

Joey

What gains did you see on the dyno after having your TB bored?

[S800Racer]

Originally posted by JSIR
the stock throttle body is 62mm for the Si and the RSX-S. The inlet on the intaWhen I had mine done the engine felt stronger at all rpms and it was also more responsive, plus the dyno numbers proved it as well.

Joey

I am also seriously considering this mod so I would be very interested in what your dyno numbers say.

[JSIR]

I've posted this many times, as did myeverlovinsir. We both had our TB's bored out at the same shop and we dyno'd before and after at the same shop. The gains were 5-6 whp max, with gains throughout the entire rpm band. We had our TB's bored out to 64mm (2mm over). I had the machine shop put a radiused end on the leading edge of the TB instead of a thin taper, dunno if that made a difference but the upgrade was quite nice for the relatively low cost. I can't say what gains others may get but the gains between my EP and myeverlovin's EP were very consistent.

I'm still wondering if we could have gone up to 65mm though as I am sure every bit helps. I initially asked the shop to take the bore up to 65mm min. and 66mm max., but they said the most they could do was 64mm. I actually began enlargening my intake manifold inlet when I sent the TB in for boring, I enlarged it to just over 65mm from the stock 64mm, but then I found out that the TB would only be 64mm. :(

hth

Joey

[c0mf0rt]

BIOEVOLVE..... have you had any problems with the coolant bypass trick???? Anything seem messed up???? Or did you switch it back to normal???

[myeverlovinsir]

bioevolve, a couple of things that may also hinder your mod, even
though you got 1mm over what JSIR and I have.

1. Did Kingmotorsports grind the endstop to the TB plate perpendicular? Stock the TB plate rests shy about 10 degrees of perpendicular, and results in poor air flow.

2. I noticed that they used the same screws with the raised
philips heads on the TB plate. This also impeades air flow and
creates tubulance. I had mine replaced to flush taper head screws.

One other thing that I have considered doing is sharpening (like a knife) the
leading/trailing edges of the TB plate as well. This will also help with air flow. hth;) TB Boreout pics (http://ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6068&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

[bioevolve]

Originally posted by c0mf0rt
BIOEVOLVE..... have you had any problems with the coolant bypass trick???? Anything seem messed up???? Or did you switch it back to normal???

I have not noticed anything from the bypass trick, I think because it so freaking hot here it's not making a difference. Nothing I can feel, dyno,dyno,dyno, wished I had my own Dyno.;)

[bioevolve]

Originally posted by myeverlovinsir
[B]bioevolve, a couple of things that may also hinder your mod, even
though you got 1mm over what JSIR and I have.


If I'm remebering correctly the plate is a 90 degree.
Screw head are not flat :( gonna have to replace.
I should have done this before I put it on. That sharpening is a great idea, I'll have to do that too.

Thanks for mods updates :D :p

[ssvr6]

Originally posted by bioevolve
Maybe next Wednesday with Steve (SSVR6) if he goes and if weather premits and if I can get the time off from work.

I'm hoping for good weather too! You should definitely try and make it. Make a day of it. I'm on vacation next week.


Steve

[bioevolve]

This is the last week of my 2 week vacation lol, I only left town for 2 days. Rest of the days I have been working on the car, internet searching for parts, and just sitting around for parts from UPS man.:D ;) :p