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View Full Version : Five Lug - Installed!



cpu519
06-01-2003, 08:54 PM
** If pics don't show up, you may have to right click the red x and choose "Show Picture", or wait a bit and then try right clicking again :winkm: **


It's done, here are the details. It's a complete bolt-on, remove and replace. There are a number of ways to go about it, you can install the complete suspension arms with knuckles and brakes, the knuckles and brakes only, or just the parts necessary for the conversion using your original parts as much as possible. I obtained the knuckles with brakes from a Type S owner who installed the Type R Brembos, but after seeing the condition of most of the parts, I decided to keep as many original parts on my car that I could.

Let's start with the rear, since it's much easier. The RSX Type S and Base have identical brakes to the Si except for lug pattern and finish. You can install the complete knuckle with brakes, it interchanges completely. Here are the minimum parts required: the RSX 5 lug bearing assembly, dust cap, rotor.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDM4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-01-2003, 08:57 PM
Here's a separate shot of the rear bearing assembly. Make sure you get the RSX dust cap too, the Si cap doesn't fit.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDM1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

golferjn
06-01-2003, 08:58 PM
nice info

Makross
06-01-2003, 09:02 PM
cool keep us updated

cpu519
06-01-2003, 09:04 PM
To complete the rear, dissassemble the rear and take everything off, the bearing assembly slides off.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDM2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-01-2003, 09:06 PM
Put the 5 lug bearing assembly back on.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDMyNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-01-2003, 09:08 PM
Bolt everything back on, it's now essentially the same as the RSX except for the gold finish.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDM3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

SpeedRacer
06-01-2003, 09:14 PM
good shit

cpu519
06-01-2003, 09:30 PM
Now for the front. The Base RSX uses the same front brakes as the Si except for the 5 lug pattern. But you can't separate the hub from the knuckle without a press, so you have to install the knuckle and brake assembly. May as well install the Type S front brakes then, unless you just want the 5 lug pattern and will reuse your original calipers. The RSX ball joint fits in the control arm, but make very sure that rubber boot is good and the threads are not damaged - the nut should screw on and off easily. If the nut sticks you won't be able to tighten the ball joint. Here's the parts required for the front, the brake/knuckle assembly and brake line. These are from the Type S.

*EDIT* You'll need the Type S ABS sensors too. The stock sensors insert too far into the knuckle and hit the axle ring. You could possibly space the stock sensors out so they don't interfere.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDMxNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-01-2003, 09:34 PM
For Type S brakes, you need the Type S axles because the hub uses a bigger spline, make sure you get the axle nuts too. The inboard splines of the Type S axles fit the Si tranny.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDM5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-01-2003, 10:12 PM
Here's a comparison between the Si brakes and the Type S. The Si front brakes are 10.3", the Type S are 11.8".

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDMzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

Civicvtec1ps
06-01-2003, 10:15 PM
very nice infos
how much did everything cost ya?

cease
06-01-2003, 10:20 PM
awsome thanks for the info!

what kind of rims are you going to put on?

did you use the si rear calipers or are those the type s

ALCT
06-01-2003, 10:22 PM
very nice job so far you did, don't get me wrong but I really wanna know what the use of doing such a conversion is? to be able to choose from a broader variety of wheel selection?

cpu519
06-01-2003, 11:05 PM
Here the fronts basically assembled. Just bolt everything back up and torque the necessary bolts. I didn't install the axles yet or bolt anything down because I'm working on another phase of the project. My original Si calipers were used at the rear because they were in better shape than the RSX units I got. I wanted to use my original parts as much as possible since they only have 3,400 miles on them.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzY3MTcwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-01-2003, 11:08 PM
And I'll put these wheels on for now, don't forget to get the 5 lug spare tire too. The RSX wheel and tire weighs two pounds less than the Si wheel/tire, 35 vs. 37 on my scale.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDQwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

IceD out N CALI
06-02-2003, 12:00 AM
wow nice info! any chance u can take a pic of those rsx wheels on your ep, just for fun?;)

cpu519
06-02-2003, 01:15 AM
Thanks. I'll post pics when it all comes together.

Suk02Si
06-02-2003, 01:24 AM
Very cool, less work than I thought. Thanks for all the info:)

Mr.02BlackSIguY
06-02-2003, 02:13 AM
going with the rsx 5 lug pattern, you cant have the jdm CTR wheels in them rite? i heard the CTR wont fit the rsx 5 lug because its a different offset. so if u want the CTR rims, u need the CTR 5 lugs pattern? someone help me out here.

chunky
06-02-2003, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by cpu519
The hard part is over. Here's a comparison between the Si brakes and the Type S.

what's the type-s front brake diameter again? 12.0"?

also, keep in mind that the RSX-s wheels have a larger overall diameter. 205/55/16 = 631.9mm, the stock si is 615mm, so the wheels are about 3/4" larger in diameter. this might cause problems if you're slammed.

02TafWhtSi
06-02-2003, 06:13 PM
way to go! I love seeing people take some initiative like this and really doing something different ;)

thaipinoy1
06-02-2003, 08:30 PM
Good job Rod!! Cant wait to see the finished product...your ass better be at the next meet also!!:D

Makross
06-02-2003, 09:28 PM
cant wait for some pics with those wheels are your car i think itll look good what are they 17's?:confused:

Suk02Si
06-02-2003, 10:13 PM
16

cpu519
06-03-2003, 07:47 AM
Sorry for the delay in getting the car done and pics up, I can't finish the axle installation yet because I'm putting in ... a 6 speed trans! That will be another thread in the Engine section. I'm running into a major problem - No Time!

LordKoo
06-03-2003, 09:36 AM
cpu519, excellent job! Keep it up! You are the man! Probably one of the very first to do that! Six speed? Incredible!

CleanBlackSi02
06-03-2003, 10:46 AM
How 'bout the Hasport Si? ;)

CleanBlackSi02
06-03-2003, 10:47 AM
2.

IceD out N CALI
06-03-2003, 03:35 PM
wow six speed, good job, keep it up:)

cease
06-03-2003, 03:46 PM
i like that

BlackJDMep
06-03-2003, 05:30 PM
is the rsx bolt pattern the same as a 99 prelude?

02TafWhtSi
06-03-2003, 06:03 PM
Those wheels look awesome on our EP's! Can't wait to see yours CPU ;)

Makross
06-03-2003, 06:22 PM
damn those look good

!@#$%
06-04-2003, 01:02 AM
those wheels look ok, but really work with the rsx. I think it has to do with the front end. hmm, what would an rsx front end look like on an si body with ctr wing? lets get a photochop!

StrangeShadow
06-07-2003, 12:36 AM
those wheels look ok, but really work with the rsx. I think it has to do with the front end. hmm, what would an rsx front end look like on an si body with ctr wing? lets get a photochop!
there're a lot in the photochop forum. =)
-where did you get all your parts? someone have a totaled rsx?

cpu519
06-07-2003, 09:13 AM
I got the parts from a Type S owner who installed the JDM Integra Type R Brembos. Check clubrsx.com (http://www.clubrsx.com/), RSX owners are more likely to sell their parts cheaper than a junkyard because they need to get rid of them.

CivicSiR4U2NV
06-07-2003, 12:34 PM
Hey do you think you could post detailed info of whats need to do this plz. I want to do this but i am unshure of whats exactly needed.

cpu519
06-08-2003, 09:43 AM
From the diagram below, here are the parts needed for the rear:

#3, BEARING ASSY., RR. 2 needed
#37, BOLT, WHEEL , 10 needed
#5, DISK, RR. BRAKE, 2 needed
#4, CAP, HUB UNIT, 2 needed
#38, NUT, SPINDLE, 2 needed (Manual says to replace, not absolutely necessary)

Check this Acura parts dealer (http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/catdisplay.jsp) for prices. It's not cheap when you have to buy the parts from the dealer though.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzY3MTY1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

CivicSiR4U2NV
06-09-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by cpu519
From the diagram below, here are the parts needed for the rear:

#3, BEARING ASSY., RR. 2 needed
#37, BOLT, WHEEL , 10 needed
#5, DISK, RR. BRAKE, 2 needed
#4, CAP, HUB UNIT, 2 needed
#38, NUT, SPINDLE, 2 needed (Manual says to replace, not absolutely necessary)

Check this Acura parts dealer (http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp) for prices. It's not cheap if you have to get the parts from the dealer.



I'll list the front parts needed shortly...

Thanx now all i need is the front then its of the my acura dealer to get the parts. :)

StrangeShadow
06-12-2003, 01:44 PM
RSX owners are more likely to sell their parts cheaper than a junkyard because they need to get rid of them.
sweet, thanks, must say this is one of the most educational threads I've seen in a while :thumbsup:

Mr.02BlackSIguY
06-12-2003, 03:24 PM
with the rsx 5 lug conversion like this. will the jdm CTR 17 inch rims fit? i heard it wont because its a different offset that the CTR ep3 5 lugs. any one? i would love to go junkyeard and get and rsx five lug because it would be cheaper than getting the actual ep3 CTR 5 lug. gosh.. things i do for jdm hhehe.

cpu519
06-13-2003, 07:33 AM
The JDM CTR wheels are 17 x 7", probably a 45mm offset, and the bolt pattern is 5 x 114.3. The bolt pattern is the same, so they will fit with no problem.

cpu519
06-13-2003, 07:42 AM
Here are the parts needed for the front, starting with the knuckles:

#2 and 3, KNUCKLE, R. FR., KNUCKLE, L. FR., right and left side
#4, BOOT, BALL DUST, 2 needed
#19, NUT, ARM (12MM), 2 needed
#20, CLIP, ARM (UPPER), 2 needed

Prices can be found here (http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/catdisplay.jsp)

Double check with the dealer on all parts requiured.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzY3MTY0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-13-2003, 08:14 AM
All of these parts are required, left and right side. You'll definitely save money by getting the Wilwood kit for the Type S instead of brand new Acura rotors and calipers. Calipers that fit the S2000 also fit, that opens up more possibilities. The hub parts are pressed into the knuckles, so take that into consideration. You'll need the Type S front brake hoses also.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzY3MTY2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

cpu519
06-13-2003, 08:20 AM
Type S axles are needed because the outboard splines are larger. Check the dealer to see if parts like the Half Shaft (#18) interchange.

Again, check with the dealer for the exact parts required and the interchangeability of all these parts. I put this swap guide together on the basis of using the Type S parts I acquired, so I can't be 100% sure about the fitment of the Base model parts or the piecing together of other RSX and Si parts. :)

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzY3MTYzNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

StrangeShadow
06-13-2003, 05:12 PM
You'll definitely save money by getting the Wilwood kit for the Type S instead of brand new Acura rotors and calipers.
was just about to ask that, that way you can get an after market big brake kit/along w/the 5lug conversion.
(what I'm currently saving for)

cpu519
06-13-2003, 08:33 PM
With the Wilwood kit, not only do you get better braking, there's a weight savings too. I've seen RSX owners selling them brand new for about $600 or so on clubrsx (http://www.clubrsx.com/).

IceD out N CALI
06-13-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by cpu519
With the Wilwood kit, not only do you get better braking, there's a weight savings too. I've seen RSX owners selling them brand new for about $600 or so on clubrsx (http://www.clubrsx.com/).


good point:)

StrangeShadow
06-14-2003, 02:40 PM
I've seen RSX owners selling them brand new for about $600 or so on clubrsx.
cool realistic prices :)

CivicSiR4U2NV
07-22-2003, 04:39 PM
sorry to drag this up again but can you repost all the pictures plz.

im lost without them. :o

NamingException
07-22-2003, 04:52 PM
Another good thread, an innocent victim of the Great Photo Loss of '03.

Very sad.

cpu519
07-26-2003, 01:40 PM
Pics are back up courtesy of Imagestation. I've been driving on them for about 3 weeks now, they're great! I'm finishing up the swap, the calipers will be painted black and Goodridge lines will be installed. Pics of the finished product will come.

jandetuning
08-09-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by cpu519
Here's how the ball joint separator works. You tighten the bolt and the lower lever pushes against the ball joint shaft. You could also use a pickle fork to separate the ball joint, I used this tool because it was similar to the Honda tool shown in the manual. And I thought that it wouldn't damage the ball joint. Turns out that because the threaded end of the ball joint is drilled twice through and is essentially hollow, the tool deformed the end enough so the nut wouldn't thread on.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/pec763a0ae73a108f371f6b88bdc42766/fb92a496.jpg

To ease removal, put the ball joint shaft under moderate pressure from the removal tool, and deliver a blow to the ball joint socket in the lower control arm with a hardened hammer, and it will pop it out effortlessly.

cpu519
08-10-2003, 01:23 AM
Thanks for the tip man! I may have to take my front knuckles off to replace the wheel bearings, don't want to mess up the joints again.

IchBinEinSiR
08-10-2003, 06:37 AM
Nice job, nice info...

MrFoxMan
09-10-2003, 10:17 AM
Did you put the stock RSX wheels on? if so I would love to see a pic.

cpu519
09-13-2003, 09:16 AM
Here's one...Progress drop, stock shocks, Neuspeed front and Progress rear swaybars, 215/50-16 Kumho 712s

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzY3MTc5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg


Brakes have Hawk HPS front pads and Goodridge lines...they work beautifully - stops great, less dust than stock, no squealing, and the lines really firm up the pedal.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMzA0NDM0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg


Replaced the Acura center caps with Honda.

IceD out N CALI
09-13-2003, 10:22 AM
u must be the only ep in southern cal with those wheels:)

MrFoxMan
09-13-2003, 11:50 PM
Thanks dude. They look very cool!

psylovibe
09-14-2003, 07:19 PM
those wheels actually look good on the ep3...are you able put Honda caps instead acura ?nice job bro

CleanBlackSi02
09-14-2003, 07:56 PM
That looks sweet man! It just seems like a lot of trouble to me...

StrangeShadow
09-14-2003, 10:35 PM
if the 04 si comes w/5lug it may make it a lot easier...

SiRman
02-07-2004, 10:13 AM
Anyway to post the pics back up fo us to see?:sadm:

cpu519
02-07-2004, 01:16 PM
I reuploaded the pics to Imagestation and updated the links in the posts, but the pics don't show up right away for some reason. You may have to right click the red x and choose "show picture", it may or may not show up right away. Once all the pics start showing up, I suggest saving each pic or each page of the thread so you always have it.

StrangeShadow
02-07-2004, 10:58 PM
if I were to get a wilwood 5lug big brake kit for the rsx, what parts would I still need to apply them to my 02si? (hubs, axles...not sure what else)? Thanks a lot.

cpu519
02-08-2004, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by StrangeShadow
if I were to get a wilwood 5lug big brake kit for the rsx, what parts would I still need to apply them to my 02si? (hubs, axles...not sure what else)? Thanks a lot.

You would need the knuckles, hubs (w/bearings), ABS sensors, and axles. I found out that you can interchange the calipers and rotors from the base RSX and Type S, so the hub and knuckles seem to be the same, maybe also the axles. So you can look for base RSX parts as well to do the the swap.

Rorysbrown
04-26-2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Mr.02BlackSIguY
with the rsx 5 lug conversion like this. will the jdm CTR 17 inch rims fit? i heard it wont because its a different offset that the CTR ep3 5 lugs. any one? i would love to go junkyeard and get and rsx five lug because it would be cheaper than getting the actual ep3 CTR 5 lug. gosh.. things i do for jdm hhehe.

I did the rsx 5 lug conversion and I have just installed the CTR wheels. It appears to me the offset is different. The wheels are more set in. I wonder what parts I need to get them pushed out. I guess I could use a spacer, but I would rather fix it the right way. Anyone know exactly what parts would be required? Pictures of my car is here http://groups.msn.com/RorySBrown/hondacivicep3pictures.msnw

Suk02Si
04-26-2004, 04:25 PM
i think type r wheels are 50mm offset

you can always get extended wheel studs and wheels spacers

VividDreams
04-26-2004, 04:40 PM
those wheels look pretty good on there, i wonder how they would look on a VBP....between the drop and the wheels, the wheel openings are filled out nicely

Rorysbrown
04-26-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Suk02Si
i think type r wheels are 50mm offset

you can always get extended wheel studs and wheels spacers

From what I have read the CTR wheels are a +45mm offset, my aftermarket ones where a +40mm offset. Certainly extended studs and a spacer would be the least expensive fix.

cpu519
04-27-2004, 12:36 AM
Rorysbrown, that's the cleanest Type R conversion I've seen yet. Beautiful! You're an inspiration!

cpu519
04-28-2004, 01:05 AM
I didn't change the proportioning valve. I'll check if it needs to be changed. I have a friend who's an engineer at Stoptech, he'll know for sure.

todaCspec
04-28-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by blackdc5
cpu: I went from base to Type S brakes, and someone mentioned to me that I should change the Prop. Valve.

You don't have to change it but it is to your advantage to use the type-S one.

cpu519
04-28-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by todaCspec
You don't have to change it but it is to your advantage to use the type-S one.

You're probably right. I was researching this. If the front Si caliper cylinders are the same as the Type S, and both the Type S and Si use the same size master cylinder and rear caliper cylinders, then the only difference would be the front brake diameter. The increase in front diameter would increase the brake bias toward the front, making the rear brakes do less work (there's more to this but the net effect is the rear brakes aren't working as hard as before). I'm going to check on the sizes of the master cylinder and caliper pistons of the Type S and Si. If the only difference is the front caliper pistons, then I'll get a Type S prop valve. But if there are more differences, it might be easier and cheaper to install an adjustable prop valve. I have a Wilwood unit that I never used. For testing I would have to disable the ABS temporarily, then adjust the prop valve so the front and rear lock up at the same time, or the fronts just slightly ahead of the rear. Gotta call my Stoptech friend on this.

cpu519
04-30-2004, 10:39 PM
Here's what I found out so far regarding the brake piston sizes. I'm going to assume that the Si and RSX base are the same. Checking Acura part numbers, the Type S and base have different master cylinders, prop valve, and front caliper pistons (that part we know). Rear brakes are the same. Now, I checked with my engineer friend at Stoptech, he's also one of the top Honda Challenge H1 drivers.

First, the "proportioning valve" does not provide any kind of brake balance. What it is does is diverts the brake pressure to either the right front and left rear, or left front and right rear in the event of a sudden loss of fluid at any wheel. It's a safety valve that allows the brake system to retain pressure and still work in an emergency.

Second, I asked him about benefits of installing an adjustable proportioning valve. He said it wouldn't do anything, the ABS is already there to and does the job.

I also asked about installing a Type S master cylinder, he thought they used the same piston sizes. In short, he said that I don't need to do anything. What I'll do is use different compound pads to balance the brakes, if necessary. I've got Hawk HPS on the front and stock on the rear. If it seems the rear is not grabbing enough, I'll put on more agressive pads, or vise versa.

iR-VTEC2
05-01-2004, 06:07 AM
that looks fuckin tight as hell. I think im still gonna go with aems tho :/ I DO LOVE THAT PICTURE