Solution to sloppy shifts? your thoughts appreciated RE: weighted shift knobs

[cbecker333]

I've not seen my transmission get any less willing to shift and definitely haven't heard it grind at all (like some owners on this site have) - its still a little stubborn at times though. I was reading some old posts and talking to my uncle who has driven a lot of hondas in his life....anyway I decided to switch back to the stock shift knob in my EP, which is about half the weight of the one I was using. My uncle was telling me about the shift linkage and how the cables are small and the mechanism exact, and thus can get over stressed and sloppy when the wrong amount of weight is acting on the end of the shifter. He said he switched to a weighted shift knob in his old CRX Si and it made the car shift worse.... I also recall a post on this site where someone said he switched back to a lighter shifter in his car (not an EP) and saw improvement from what had become a loose, sloppy feeling shift mechanism.

I'll let you guys know as my shift problem gets either better or worse...I still haven't ruled out the tranny flush & fill with Honda MTF to just get things cleaned up in there.

(See my latest post for update)

[iR-VTEC2]

i dont see what that would have to do with anything. What if someone's hands are like....andre the giants and like weight 50 pounds each. A knob aint gonna do anythin. He'd have to learn how to shift!

Maybe you should drive another EP to see how it feels? (unless you've done that already). Cuz if it feels the same then you're just trippin?

[cbecker333]

Originally posted by iR-VTEC2
i dont see what that would have to do with anything. What if someone's hands are like....andre the giants and like weight 50 pounds each. A knob aint gonna do anythin. He'd have to learn how to shift!


Whenever I doubt myself about this issue being related to the knob (and who knows, maybe its really 2 separate issues), I think the same thing you said....but I think the difference is that the momentum of a heavier shift knob keeps pushing on the linkage after the shifter is moved into position, it kinda "bounces" off the end of the throw. Also, when I am driving around, each bump in the road makes the weighted knob bounce a little bit, while the stock shifter's weight makes it much less bouncey.

Its possible that I AM totally tripping, I'll just give this a try and will see if it has any impact....

Incidentally, I do have Andre the Giant hands, but I've trained them well ;)

[chunky]

eh, how heavy IS the knob?

i have a momo cobra carbon knob in my car. it shifts perfectly. It's maybe a bit heavier than the stock knob, but not by much. Most knobs shouldn't really be that much heavier than the stock one.

The weight of the knob just determines shifting effort required. A heavier knob makes it easier to overcome the natural tension in the cables attached to the shift linkage. A lighter knob forces your arm to do all the work.

As for the knob being more bouncy, you're tripping on that. The stock knob is bouncy, but you probably didn't notice it b/c you weren't looking for problems. All shift knobs wiggle around when you ride over rough pavement.

[cbecker333]

Originally posted by chunky
eh, how heavy IS the knob?
Its a cheap piece of shit and its VERY heavy. Maybe twice the weight of the stock shifter, which itself is pretty heavy.



As for the knob being more bouncy, you're tripping on that. The stock knob is bouncy, but you probably didn't notice it b/c you weren't looking for problems. All shift knobs wiggle around when you ride over rough pavement.

Yeah I notice the stock shifter bouncing too, and its been like that since I got the car...true that all shifters will bounce a little but I really think the excessive weight I had on there was making it bounce more. Like you say, maybe I'm trippin...

[JSIR]

I had a rough 1st to 2nd gear shift on my car for many months since new. My tranny was also rough on double-clutch downshifts. Most trannies should respond very well to double-clutch downshifts since you are taking more time to complete the shift and allowing the synchros to match up better, but mine never would.

I had my factory tranny fluid drained and replaced with Honda MTF, and about a week later I took it to the 1/4 mile track and did about 10 runs. My tranny now feels silky smooth and very precise, has a very nice feel to it. Best of all double clutch downshifts are exactly how they should be, very smooth and precise. I've noticed a big difference in that respect. I dont' know if this will help anyone elses car but it has worked on mine. Funny part was that it happened over a week after I drained the fluid and after running at the 1/4 mile track. I can't explain that but I am very satisfied with the tranny now, it feels a lot better.

Getting back to your post, I've always liked the look of the ITR/CTR style metal shift knobs, but I have found that they make the shifting feel less precise and almost notchier. I've always attributed it to the way you grab one of those knobs compared to the factory knob - different holding position in the hand. Thus I've always found the factory knobs on my Civics to feel better and I am resisting the urge to get a ITR/CTR style knob this time around.


Joey

[cbecker333]

Thanks for the help, both Chunky and JSIR....Good to have experienced opinions on this.

[Jaws Of Death]

I have a skunk2 weighted shift knob on my car, and if anything, the shifting feels smoother and more positive. 1-2 used to feel pretty notchy, but either it has gone away or I can't feel it any more. Then again, it could be that I am approaching 10k miles. Either way, I am very happy with my skunk2 shift knob and would buy it again.

[SiNi$t3R]

Dude Check this out, I have a Skunk 2 Type-R knob and this sucker is 440 grams!!! Hard to believe something like this weighs so much but it does work. I myself was a skeptic at first, but now i dunno what i would do without it. http://ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12057&highlight=Skunk+shift+knob

[cbecker333]

I went to Honda today and ordered up some wiper blades and a new antenna (f'ing punk kids)....I stopped the service manager and asked him about tranny flush and fill, he got pretty offended at my terminology. He kept emphasizing that you don't flush a honda tranny, ever. I'm not sure what exactly is meant by flush, but I'm curious why he worked so hard to make that distinction? Anyway I'm swinging by tonight and they're gonna "replace" my trans fluid with Honda MTF.

[JSIR]

ah your service guy is whacked !. All they do is drain it, cause its a manual tranny, flushes are done on automatic trannies to get all the stuff out of the cooler lines. Anywho, good luck with the new fluid. I say run it for a couple days like normal then give it some good hard runs, it seemed to work for me. I still can't believe the difference and can't explain why it took a week for it to really feel good. It may have taken that long to coat the synchros really well or perhaps clear off the old deposits. Who knows :o


Joey

[cbecker333]

I think maybe the shift knob I was using just wasn't made right. The shape of the knob was not conducive to what my hand was trying to do with it. It had VERY LITTLE surface area and so I was relying on fewer points of contact between my hand and the shifter, even though the added momentum of the heavier knob initially seemed to make things faster and easier. The Skunk2 does look like it would be more grab-able (my knob didn't taper at the bottom - it was rounded) and I bet it is balanced better than mine.

I'm back on the stock shifter for now, and I went to honda and got the fluid drained, refilled. I shouldn't say too much yet about the difference since I've only driven home from the dealer....

Getting the car into 1st gear from a very slight roll or a stop is much easier. 1-2 definitely is better but I'm still waiting and hoping for the rest of the shifts (up and down) to loosen. Thursday I'll be taking the beast out west and giving her a good run. I'll let ya'll know how it works out.

[02TafWhtSi]

I love the look of aftermarket or even RSX shift knobs but our leather OEM knob feels really good to me. Nice and thick - fills up my whole fist (wow, this sounds pretty gay :rolleyes: ) All I plan to do is upgrade the boot but leave the stock knob.

[ep pilot]

You guys are all getting me weak (ROTFLOL) with all this talk about how the knob feels in you palm while you handle it...:o anyway I had Momo (weighted) Knob on my Jetta, which I transffered over to my Civic the day I brought her home. I noticed the shifting was cleaner and more precise with the Momo in place, but it did not feel good to grip, because you had to claw it the way our set-up is, where as with the stock one you grab it, all of which feels more natural IMO.....? I have then since gone back to the stock knob, also I could never figure out what to do with the boot, and the chrome ring that just never worked out for me quite right with the momo.

-Ryan

[cbecker333]

I had a good solution to the boot/ring problem and I'll get some pics of it this weekend for you (if ya ever wanna switch back) and anyone else on the board with the same problem. I don't have a digital camera so I gotta wait for my girl to come out here this weekend and bring hers.

[iR-VTEC2]

the honda service guy was right. You dont ever flush it. hehe

[chunky]

Originally posted by ep pilot
You guys are all getting me weak (ROTFLOL) with all this talk about how the knob feels in you palm while you handle it...:o anyway I had Momo (weighted) Knob on my Jetta, which I transffered over to my Civic the day I brought her home. I noticed the shifting was cleaner and more precise with the Momo in place, but it did not feel good to grip, because you had to claw it the way our set-up is, where as with the stock one you grab it, all of which feels more natural IMO.....? I have then since gone back to the stock knob, also I could never figure out what to do with the boot, and the chrome ring that just never worked out for me quite right with the momo.

-Ryan

check it. i got my boot issues worked out perfectly. :) i love the stock boot. the rubber boot is the way to go.

[chunky]

another pic

[1abSi]

some sexy floor mats there chunk

[02TafWhtSi]

This is what I'm getting :p Leather boot (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2418048267&category=33703)

[chunky]

Originally posted by 1abSi
some sexy floor mats there chunk

har har.

they keep the water off the real floor mats so when it rains, the car doesn't smell dank the day after.

[Dunrick]

What are those in your door? Travel maps? hehe

Just head west, then north. So we can race!)!*%@) :P

[mhx]

i dont know why you would replace the stock leather wraped shift knob..

your dumb if ya do
waste of money

and worst of all its a rice mod!

[cbecker333]

Wow! What a difference! My car is just as addictive as the day I bought it...easy shifts make it so much more fun. I dunno know what I did right, but it was either going back to the stock shift knob or getting that tranny fluid replaced. Anyway, if your shit gets chunky or notchy - give these a try. Dealer did the fluid drain+fill for $45 total. (wanted to do it myself.....I have drive-on lifts but not a big enough pan for such a mess....)

[JSIR]

Originally posted by cbecker333
Wow! What a difference! My car is just as addictive as the day I bought it...easy shifts make it so much more fun. I dunno know what I did right, but it was either going back to the stock shift knob or getting that tranny fluid replaced. Anyway, if your shit gets chunky or notchy - give these a try. Dealer did the fluid drain+fill for $45 total. (wanted to do it myself.....I have drive-on lifts but not a big enough pan for such a mess....)

Hey great to hear !, that is exactly what I found as well, my tranny shifts so nice now it is actually better than when it was new. Downshifting is so much smoother now, that's what I noticed most as the biggest difference. I am really happy with the tranny now. I think the refill Honda MTF is better than the stuff they are using in England at time of build, just my guess ?

Word of advice, I believe in changing the tranny fluid once per year, despite what Honda recommends. I think after a year the fluid doesn't work as well as new fluid. I do all my own maintenance, however I let the dealer do the tranny fluid for the relatively low cost. It is messy, plus you have to raise the car with all four corners level so the fluid level is properly filled when you try to read the level. If the car is on any sort of slant you won't get a proper fill level.

Glad it worked for you bud !


Joey:cool: