1st to 2nd grind

[Dunrick]

THis is actual gear grind too. If I get on it in first, and shift into second quick, it will grind once in a while....my foot is definitely pressing the clutch all way down too while shifting....if I shift slow, it wont do it. Don't know whats up with it...Sucks

I remember Brettny was getting this.....I dont want to have to go to the dealer unless I have to. Plus it only does it once I'm up around 7k on the tach...will a dealer even care since it seems like it would just appear to be abusing the engine?

I know my stuff, so I can garentee I'm driving fine. I have motor mounts i/e. It did all this before the motor mounts....sucks! help wtf

[SIxtasy]

Hey, The SAME exact thing happens to me. Everytime, I'm dumbfounded because my foot is COMPLETLEY pressed down the clutch. And Yes, it only happens around 7K on the tach. I really don't want to go to the dealer with this, but it seems like I might have to..

- Jeffrey:eek: :eek: :eek:

[ep pilot]

I don't really want to crap anyone out, but I am getting sick of all the tranny 1/2 grind; notchyness, etc... threads... It's starting to make me think I made a bad choice getting my Si as i really enjoy it, and like the car.

I have never had a grind personally, or I should say I think driving spiritedly, I had been lazy a few times, mabey twice at best where I have actually on accident grinded going into second...

The only thing I really notice is that the feel and the way the car shifts is very sensitive to temerature. when its cold, the shifting is very firm and notchy at times. When hot the shifting becomes very sloppy, and vauge......what I feel mostly in this situation is a very subtle bump or notch every 4th-5th shift into 2nd, also I have had the shufter pop out of gear a few times in second, or just feel like it is not in gear all of the way....? I am content that this is just natural for our car, since so many of us have had this issue.... I really would like to go back to the dealer and test drive a few Si's to tell if it is true or not before I go in for service... I just have to wait until I can borrow a car from someone so that I can play like I don't own an Si yet and get the salesman to think I really want to testdrive it;)


-Ryan

[Dunrick]

What were talking about isn't notchyness....nor cold tranny in the morning....this is GRIND

I feel ya, that it sucks to hear this shit, but I don't care...Its happening to some people. Just trying to see what people are doing about it.

[SIxtasy]

Man, I'm fucking scared to go to the dealer too. Ever since my last car, I think anytime I go in Imma have voided warranties by the end of the day. I have noticed more and more of these post about grind, and it does concern me deeply. Seeing as I got rid of my VW because of poor craftsmanship, I would be sincerly pissed if Honda treated me the same way they did. I hope we can find some kind of "FIX"

[chunky]

the 1-2 shift on the si's tranny is a pretty large rpm drop. it's about 2000rpm that the engine rpm has to fall off to engage the next gear smoothly.

Now it doesn't take long for the engine rpm to fall 2000rpm from 7000rpm, BUT i can almost garantee that you guys are able to shift faster than the engine rpm falls.

So what i'm saying is, you CAN't rush the 1-2 upshift too much or you will grind.

I personally run a 75w-90 gear lube in my transmission. Thicker fluids help the synchros do their job better since they rely on friction to perform their function. Anyhow, my problem with the 1-2 shift is non existent.

it only grinds when I fuck up the timing, that includes shifting faster than what is possible/necessary.

Rushing that 1-2 shift isn't gonna make you go any faster, it's just gonna grind that 1st gear synchro into dust.

There is a such thing as shifting TOO fast you know. ;)

Also, you might wanna give the clutch a good bleeding as well to make sure the grinding isn't due to a laggy clutch action (which would be caused by sponginess in the clutch lines).

I need to bleed my clutch badly, it's almost black (i have 43k miles btw).

[SIxtasy]

Changing tranny fluid = good idea:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Dunrick]

Originally posted by chunky
the 1-2 shift on the si's tranny is a pretty large rpm drop. it's about 2000rpm that the engine rpm has to fall off to engage the next gear smoothly.

Now it doesn't take long for the engine rpm to fall 2000rpm from 7000rpm, BUT i can almost garantee that you guys are able to shift faster than the engine rpm falls.

So what i'm saying is, you CAN't rush the 1-2 upshift too much or you will grind.

I personally run a 75w-90 gear lube in my transmission. Thicker fluids help the synchros do their job better since they rely on friction to perform their function. Anyhow, my problem with the 1-2 shift is non existent.

it only grinds when I fuck up the timing, that includes shifting faster than what is possible/necessary.

Rushing that 1-2 shift isn't gonna make you go any faster, it's just gonna grind that 1st gear synchro into dust.

There is a such thing as shifting TOO fast you know. ;)

Also, you might wanna give the clutch a good bleeding as well to make sure the grinding isn't due to a laggy clutch action (which would be caused by sponginess in the clutch lines).

I need to bleed my clutch badly, it's almost black (i have 43k miles btw).


Chunky, I think you are totally right. I do tend to shift too quick from first to second. Is there any special method to bleeding the clutch? Does the dealership have to do it?

[chunky]

Originally posted by Dunrick



Chunky, I think you are totally right. I do tend to shift too quick from first to second. Is there any special method to bleeding the clutch? Does the dealership have to do it?

nah, it bleeds just like any other clutch or brake line. The bleeder fitting is on the front of the transmission roughtly on the same vertical plane as the throttle body. attach a clear hose to it, get a box ended wrench, open the fitting, get a friend to pump the clutch pedal and hold it at the bottom, tighten the fitting, tell friend to release, repeate until resivior is almost empty - refill, continue until new fluid comes out. It's easy to tell when the new fluid is coming out b/c typically the old fluid is much darker in color.

[Steve02Si]

UMM... 75W90??? Hondas dont use typical gear oil in the trans, they use what's basically 5W30 motor oil. someone correct me if I'm wrong regarding the K series, but I've done enough B series swaps to know that Honda's trans fluid is labelled 5W30. Running oil that thick could have SERIOUS long term effects.

[bmx269]

Let me tell you a story about gear oil in a honda trany. 60,000 km came around on my 98 EK and I was getting my oil changed at a Mr. Lube (dont even bother asking why) The told me I need to change my trany oil and it costs 35.00, im like sure. I hit 130,000 km and I here a strange noise from my trany, hmm, I ignor it, 140,000 the noise is more noticable and becoming constant. On my way to work, 143,000 I believe, the noise wont stop, so I pull off the road to notice trany fluid coming out of the clutch area. SHIT. I burn home and park it. Call my friend at honda and ask him what to do. After advice, I do take the task of removing the trany (my second heavy mechanical task ever on a car) 5 hours later, its off, and I take it to my friend. He takes it apart, and asked me who change the fluid, I say "Mr Lube" he laughs, and says, they put gear oil in your trany, when you require 5W30, DOH! He shows me my main bearing, then every other bearing in the trany, EVERY seal was gone. He said the heavy weight oil caused too much friction for the seals, once the seals went, the bearings got shit in them and broke down. I am like FUCK. The bearings exploded inside my trany, causing bad shit to happen. The last bearing to blow was the main trany bearing, which caused the fluid leak. I replaced my trany, and decided to go with a 100% synthetic oil for the fluid, DAMN that worked so nice, I was so happy with the feel. The new trany was nice to, I drive the EK until I traded it for the EP at 178,000km and did not have a problem with my clutch install, trany replacement or shifting (saved over 1000.00 in labour doing it myself). Lesson to be learned, Honda trany is not a domestic trany, DO NOT USE GEAR OIL. :) Here are some pictures from my trany problem. Enjoy


http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842107.jpg

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842220.jpg

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842417.jpg

[bmx269]

Oh ya, it was winter time when this happened.

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842522.jpg


http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842546.jpg


http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842569.jpg

[bmx269]

more. damn my car was dirty under the hood .:(
http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842646.jpg


http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842964.jpg


http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842971_1.jpg

[bmx269]

The last set.
http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842971.jpg

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205081014453.jpg

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205081014780.jpg

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205081014813.jpg

[cbecker333]

If you're not too far into your warranty, I say just wait for it to maybe get worse so that you can convince honda something is really wrong.

[VBSI]

Here is some interesting info for some: In my 92 VX hatch, I would get second gear grind when I really jumped on it-and I get the same in my 03 Si. I also had a ticking, tapping noise somewhere on the drivers side door near the a-pillar when I take off slow-and I have the same thing in my Si. These may be Honda trademarks.

[chunky]

Originally posted by bmx269
Let me tell you a story about gear oil in a honda trany. 60,000 km came around on my 98 EK and I was getting my oil changed at a Mr. Lube (dont even bother asking why) The told me I need to change my trany oil and it costs 35.00, im like sure. I hit 130,000 km and I here a strange noise from my trany, hmm, I ignor it, 140,000 the noise is more noticable and becoming constant. On my way to work, 143,000 I believe, the noise wont stop, so I pull off the road to notice trany fluid coming out of the clutch area. SHIT. I burn home and park it. Call my friend at honda and ask him what to do. After advice, I do take the task of removing the trany (my second heavy mechanical task ever on a car) 5 hours later, its off, and I take it to my friend. He takes it apart, and asked me who change the fluid, I say "Mr Lube" he laughs, and says, they put gear oil in your trany, when you require 5W30, DOH! He shows me my main bearing, then every other bearing in the trany, EVERY seal was gone. He said the heavy weight oil caused too much friction for the seals, once the seals went, the bearings got shit in them and broke down. I am like FUCK. The bearings exploded inside my trany, causing bad shit to happen. The last bearing to blow was the main trany bearing, which caused the fluid leak. I replaced my trany, and decided to go with a 100% synthetic oil for the fluid, DAMN that worked so nice, I was so happy with the feel. The new trany was nice to, I drive the EK until I traded it for the EP at 178,000km and did not have a problem with my clutch install, trany replacement or shifting (saved over 1000.00 in labour doing it myself). Lesson to be learned, Honda trany is not a domestic trany, DO NOT USE GEAR OIL. :) Here are some pictures from my trany problem. Enjoy


http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842107.jpg

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842220.jpg

http://www.digitalgumball.com/ephatch/trany/200205060842417.jpg

well, I'm not gonna dance around it. You got owned by mr. lube.

I can GARANTEE you that they did NOT use a synthetic gear lube. While it's widely documented that using a quality SYNTHETIC gear lube in honda manual transmissions has no side effects, it's equally well known that using conventional 75w-90 gear lube in a honda transmission will yield the same results as what you experienced.

Just to give you a point of reference, I've used the mobil 1 75w-90 full synthetic gear lube in my 2000 civic si from 5,000 miles up till when i parted ways with it at 36,000 miles. NO problems whatsoever. So far i've got 43,000+ miles on the clock with my ep3, and no problems. I've been using 75w-90 since the car was new. Check my self kept maintenance records. http://www.darksci.net/~chunky/estella%20maintenance%20record.xls

You experienced transmission failure at about 30k miles. Well, I'm proof that mobil 1 75w-90 does NOT do anything bad to your transmission.

This has always been a hotly debated topic among honda enthusiasts. Some swear by Honda MTF, others swear by full synthetic gear lubes such as mobil 1 or redline MTF. But I think the most telling factor is that almost ALL teams that race hondas use a thicker lube for the gearbox than honda MTF.

Anyhow, there is a HUGE difference in molecule size between synthetic 75w-90 and conventional gear lube. The synthetic molecules are much smaller allowing them to penetrate into the tight clearances found in your transmission. They provide the same protection as the conventional oil in a much thinner oil.

[mental]

honda + ep3 + transmission = SUCK ASS PIECE OF SHIT
end of discussion my ep is in huggins hondas garage right now having the 2nd 3rd and 4 gear syncros replaced!!!
stop bitching people and get over it!! you just have to drive these things really really care full try to remember this is a whole new series of motors and trannys some things arent gonna be perfect honda still has some bugs to work out wether they choose to admit it or not and wether you choose to accept it or not! have fun and be safe!
p.s. i used to get that grind everytime and think nothing of it... well now i know its not good it because the syncros arent catching up so its forceing its self into gear and breaking off syncro teeth in the process! just be care ful!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh and as well if you fuck anything up honda will try and make you pay for it so be prepared!!! i bitched.. . ALOT and they agreed to fix it!!! however the clutch assembly and flywheel are my problem

[bmx269]

I think you read my post wrong, I said that I put synthetic 5W30 in my new trany., and mr. poop put crappy gear oil in. I recommend Synthetic for your trany.

[chunky]

Originally posted by bmx269
I think you read my post wrong, I said that I put synthetic 5W30 in my new trany., and mr. poop put crappy gear oil in. I recommend Synthetic for your trany.

i put gear oil in my tranny too, but it's synthetic. The crappy gear lube that mr. poop used is most likely a conventional 75w-90 oil. That's what domestics use in their differentials & transmissions.

i was just pointing out that conventional gear lube has no place in your gearbox, but SYNTHETIC 75w-90 gear lube is okay.

IMO 5w-30 is too thin to provide adequate protection in a hard driven gearbox. Also, synchronizers NEED friction in order to operate. thicker oils are GOOD for synchros, but bad for the tight clearances in transmissions. And the thicker oils obviously provide more protection to the gears themselves.

Synthetic gear lubes have high viscosities with smaller and more uniform molecule sizes. that's what makes them okay for transmissions.

[l33t]

Originally posted by Dunrick
THis is actual gear grind too. If I get on it in first, and shift into second quick, it will grind once in a while....my foot is definitely pressing the clutch all way down too while shifting....if I shift slow, it wont do it. Don't know whats up with it...Sucks

I remember Brettny was getting this.....I dont want to have to go to the dealer unless I have to. Plus it only does it once I'm up around 7k on the tach...will a dealer even care since it seems like it would just appear to be abusing the engine?

I know my stuff, so I can garentee I'm driving fine. I have motor mounts i/e. It did all this before the motor mounts....sucks! help wtf


don't take it in and get another honda clutch i did, honda told me iw as racing the car daily and voided my whole transmission/clutch warranty, and it still does it, honda fucked up bad on this