available TURBO KITS

[REVwheels]

for those looking for a turbo kit for the EP...i gathered the 4 kits on the market that i know of and listed them here with specs. if i forgot any kits please feel free to add.

*SFP Turbo kit
Price: $4450.00
250whp @6psi 207lbs tq
-Garrett T3/T04E (1yr warranty)
-Tial 38mm waste gate
-Tial 50mm blow off valve
-Custom intercooler core w/end tanks 2.5

[xlr8]

2 small things with the rev hard kit. its a turbonetics t3/t4 and a spearco intercooler

[Bushido]

where can i purchase the sfp kit?

[Jodster]

Can we see some dyno #'s?

[REVwheels]

Originally posted by Bushido
where can i purchase the sfp kit?

if you are interested in the SFP i believe you can just call them 305-233-8520.

[REVwheels]

Originally posted by Jodster
Can we see some dyno #'s?

i have the preliminary dyno sheet on the SFP kit where it did 250 whp on 6psi. ill scan it and post tomorrow.

[03BlueEP3]

Originally posted by REVwheels
for those looking for a turbo kit for the EP...i gathered the 4 kits on the market that i know of and listed them here with specs. if i forgot any kits please feel free to add.

**EDIT**

*Cybernation
Price: $4460.00
262whp-209 tq- 7.5psi

1) T3/T4, 60-1, 62-1
2) Custom Manifold
3) Turbo Piping
4) Turbonetice Wastegate
5) Apexi S-AFC
6) Spearco Intercooler
7) Intercooler Piping
8) Blow Off Valve
9) 550 cc Injectors
10) Vortec FMU
11) 250psi fuel & Oil Lines
12) Cybernation Black Magic ELF


Here is the EDITED list

*Cybernation
Price: $3995.00
262whp-209 tq- 7.5psi

1) Turbonetics T3/T4
2) Custom Manifold
3) Custom 3" Downpipe (able to connect to factory or aftermarket exhaust)
4) Turbo Piping
5) Turbo Intake w/ Filter
6) Turbonetice Wastegate
7) Spearco Intercooler
8) Intercooler Piping
9) Turbonetics Blow Off Valve
10) 550 cc Injectors
11) Vortec FMU
12) 250psi fuel & Oil Lines
13) Cybernation Black Magic ELF
14) Apexi S-AFC
15) Autometer A/F & Boost Gauge
16) All hoses, clamps, fittings, lines etc.

[styllinep3]

witch of these are carb excempt and witch are not .

[REVwheels]

hahah none!

[sniperSI]

what is a:

Aquamist jetted methanol injection (1yr warranty)

[REVwheels]

its a module that when the car reads boost it sprays a mist of alcohol/water directly in the throttle body. this allows the car to run stock injectors and keep the car from running lean at all times.

[ssvr6]

Uhhh...alcohol eats up metal. How safe is this for the TB and how long will it last before it's completely corroded?


Steve

[03BlueEP3]

Not to start anything but why not just upgrade the injectors? I belive you guys are running the RSX-S injectors, so why not just get bigger injectors?
-Mike

[REVwheels]

Originally posted by ssvr6
Uhhh...alcohol eats up metal. How safe is this for the TB and how long will it last before it's completely corroded?


Steve

last time i checked the motor is aluminum, and the throttle body is aluminum, and the plate is bronze. neither are affected by a alcohol/water mixture.

[sniperSI]

Seems like just one more thing to go wrong for a cost savings, spend 39oo might as well speed the cash and up the injectors. When you start talking thousands of dollars isnt an injector work around nit picking?

Or is there some good reason this type of injector is perfered of upgraded fuel injectors?

[REVwheels]

odd how the "cybernations camp" tends to jump in any thread regarding my car. its unfortunate...im not a mechanic so i can not answer all questions thoroughly, but i do know this. the reason why we used the stock injectors was mainly for R&D and also because i wanted a car to start, run and turn off like as if it were stock. the R&D side of this was to see if the car ran stock injectors, so it could pass emissions. also, to clear somethings up. the car is now on a set of RSX Type-S injectors. this still allows the car to idle correct with no modifications. another thing...the car does not run lean what so ever and never did on any of the dyno passes it made. it ran very rich as a matter of fact. there is a more technical explanation for all of this. but for now this is what i offer.
i never came to this board to sell a product, unlike these other guys, i just happen to be the guy who got the alternative. is one better than the other? i dont know yet. they both use the same basic set up. do i think the SFP is more efficient? Personally, i do. it works, no probs and to date has never been an issue. and for the car to roll up on the dyno for its 1st dyno pull and get 249.7 @ 6psi. thats pretty impressive.

[03BlueEP3]

I am not "jumping" into any thread. I just have some questions about the kit. I am NOT putting down the kit and I am NOT putting down your car. I am very impresed that it did put down 249 on first pull. Ours also put down 240 and change on first pull. We just go once more setp and tune it a little more to make more power. I am NOT trying to disrespect your car or SFP turbo kit. Your car is VERY VERY impressive all around. I am sorry if you are taking this personal or taking it as disrespect. Like I stated above, I am NOT putting down the kit or you car, I am just asking some basic questions. ALSO Like I said above your car is VERY impressive and I would defenatly stop and look if I saw it at a show.

**NOTE**
Our cars run PERFECT with 550 injectors. we don't have any start up problems or idle problems with the 550 injectors.

[CSMsi311]

I'm not part of any camp. But I am still going to point out my concerns with any kit. Will my constructive criticism help create a better kit? mostly likely not. But I want people to realize that knowledge is power, not dyno numbers.

And the main thing that is different between these 2 kits is the fuel system

[BlackNRedSi]

WAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT! I want to become a member of this 'CAMP' you are talking about!!!!!!


JK! Nice write up all!

Eric

EDIT: I am just jokin around, hope no one takes it the wrong way

[ssvr6]

Sorry I came off as such. I too am just curious.


Steve

[esmith13]

...the R&D side of this was to see if the car ran stock injectors, so it could pass emissions...

Is this to mean that the Cybernation kit CANNOT pass emissions due to the larger 550cc injectors??

Staying street Legal in PA is no joke.... F***ing State Inspections!!! :rolleyes:


Any thoughts, 03BlueEP3 ???


Eric

[ssvr6]

Cybernation kit removes the CAT too. You can run a free flo unit, but I'm pretty sure that it would get eaten up over time.


Steve

[03BlueEP3]

Originally posted by esmith13


Is this to mean that the Cybernation kit CANNOT pass emissions due to the larger 550cc injectors??

Staying street Legal in PA is no joke.... F***ing State Inspections!!! :rolleyes:


Any thoughts, 03BlueEP3 ???


Eric

I don't think injectors will not make you pass emissions. Its the exhaust that won't let you pass. Try our's elminates the cat and won't pass because of that but if you MUST have a car that needs to pass emissions we can work with the car and try to leave the cat on inorder to help you pass emissions. You are going to lose some HP but if you HAVE to pass, you HAVE to pass. Going turbo is a BIG upgrade and emissions is the first though on everyone's mind. Lets just be honest ... you CAN'T put down insane numbers and worry about emissions at the same time. Hope this helps

[esmith13]

Basically, your telling me that all turbos remove the Cat, and I either need to find a friend at an inspection station or start looking at the wussy JRSC as an alternative.....

Damn annual emmissions crap..... grrrrrrrr.....

Thanks for the information fellas,

Eric

[03BlueEP3]

Originally posted by esmith13
Basically, your telling me that all turbos remove the Cat, and I either need to find a friend at an inspection station or start looking at the wussy JRSC as an alternative.....

Damn annual emmissions crap..... grrrrrrrr.....

Thanks for the information fellas,

Eric

I don't know that ALL turbos remove the cat. I know ours does. We are basied in FL and there are NO emissions in FL. If you wanted to use our kit, the best thing I could tell you is find a friend at the inspection station or get the S/C ... sorry about that. If I was you .... I would move to SUNNY FLORIDA! :D

[CSMsi311]

Originally posted by esmith13
Is this to mean that the Cybernation kit CANNOT pass emissions due to the larger 550cc injectors??
Eric

The size of the injectors does not automatically mean your car is going to fail emissions. If you don't run a cat then it doesn't matter what size injectors you have you aren't going to pass emissions. Get a high flow cat, instead of a test pipe.

[turbo67]

After reading some of these questions about fuel systems in use
for the various turbo kits available, I think there are several
things to be said. As for clarity sake, I believe all the turbo kits
available use bigger injectors, including SFP's. And as for high
fuel pressures risers, all the kits use some kind of FMU, vortech, (mechanical) must use a return line, or aeromotive,
(electrical). Even if you look at a factory turbocharged cars, AE
Mitsubishi, etc, they also use a rising rate fuel pressure regulators. So as for raising the fuel pressure, that seems to be common practice. Part of the reason for that is that as you build boost pressure in the intake manifold, it makes it more difficult for the fuel to make it down the port to the cylinder, thus more pressure ensures better travel nd itimization, at the very least. As for the bigger injectors well, how big do you go before you start to have adverse effects? Meaning, If you are using a fatory ecu, which is calibrated for 270 cc injectors, and then you install a set of 550 cc injectors, obviously you are going to have a calibration issue. Some of the kits come with an afc to control the injectors. Well lets look at that idea for a second. You have and obdII computer in the vehicle, which has values telling it to run at a specific air fuel ratio at idle & part throttle, ae 14.00 / 14.7. You install this afc, and for starters have to take 30 - 50 percent fuel out at idle and part throttle to try to even come close to those numbers. That wouldn't be too bad, but lets not forget that in part throttle & idle the factory ecu wants to use the o2's for correction which continues to try to change injector pulse over and over, and the afc is giving it a preset value. Just to make things a little more complicated, the car has a 5 wire o2 sensor from factory ae(wide band) which has the ability to send data faster & more accurate than ever before. In short you have installed a afc, which might do an ok job of controlling the injectors under wide open throttle, (when the car is not in closed loop) but really can help you much at all in closed loop, thus giving you check engine light, poor idle, black smoke, and a lot of sparkplug changes.
The more correct way of doing this task is the way SFP, JRSC, &
Revhard are doing it, which is to reflash the factory ecu,
to accomodate the bigger injector change. At this point a least
it really runs & drives the way it should. This re flash of the ecu
also, enables for the timmig curves to be more turbo friendly,
than the factory curves that were designed for n/a application.
Which brings me to the water/methanol injection issue. It really makes alot of sense to use this system. Lets do a little math for this one. You're taking an engine with a compression ratio of 9.5:1 or more, and trying to run boost in the amount of lets say 6-7psi. If you the formula, to figure out your psi in the cylinder you will find that at 6 psi of boost, your compression ratio is about 14.1:1, about 300 psi in the cylinder. Normally anything above about 12.1:1 or 240 psi will ping/ detenate to death on 93 octaine. So at 14:1 or 300psi we can assume that it may run like hell but I'M pretty sure, it will be for a short time. The water/metanol injection serves as an octaine booster (because of the methanol obiviously.) and also helps bring the air temp down, the intake manifold temp down, the cylinder head temp down. Not to mention, we all know the cooler the air, the more power you will make, even at less boost. Bottom line is, that the benefits are all +++. If you go on some of the Buick &
Mustang Turbo Forums, you will find that on iron blocks with the water/methanol injecton systems, the guys are running 20-27 psi of boost on pump gas.
If you would like to learn more about turbocharging, fuel, octaine
ratings, compression ratios for turbo charging you can get all
the formulas on line. Try Bell Engineering or you can also purchase a book called Turbocharging by Bell the turbo-
charging goo ruuu.

:rolleyes:

[CSMsi311]

you should not have to use a fuel pressure riser with larger injectors. I'm not and the car runs fine.

I don't follow where you are getting your numbers for cylinder pressure. 240 psi will cause detonation?? You do know that during combustion cylinder pressure is many times higher.

I also think that in an effort to save fuel. Our engines run a higher then stoich. a/f setting (lean) at idle.

And I've never heard that agruement that higher intake manifold pressure makes it more difficult for the fuel to get to the cylinders. I'll have to look into that one.

[turbo67]

You may be running a static fuel pressure on your car with bigger,
injectors and it runs fine, or so you believe. The reason you want
to up the fuel pressure, is as a normal n/a engine, under wide
open throttle will not need very much pressure because the engine is doing a pretty good job of pulling fuel & more importantly itemizes pretty well because it is pulling the air &
fuel. On a boosted apllication, you are forcing air in the cylinder
as apposed to it being pulled. If you where to watch this event
on a superflow bench, you would see that the fuel under
these cercumstances gets pushed mainly to the top of the port
instead of itemizing as well as it should. By raising the pressure
you have a better chance of getting the fuel in the middle of
the air streem.
As for the question on detonation, yes cylinder pressure contributes to detonation or pre ignition! The higher the pressure
in the cylinder, the more heat, the more heat you have,
the higher the risk. If you have enough heat you don't even
need a spark plug ae diesel. Im sure you have seen on the
forums, pistons with holes in them, broken piston lands, etc.
cylinder pressure is a bitch, it makes lots of power, but it
also creates lots of problems. Yes you are right as for cylinder
pressure it is alot higher a times turing its cycle, I was just
reffering to what it would be just before the plug lights it
off, and the fact that pump gas alone cannot support that
kind of pressure without some help.

Oh before I forget, Most of the kits that I saw do retain
a cat. Yes, there is a little to be gained by not having a cat,
but there are not really very manny choices, even in florida.
Not having emmissions in florida does not mean you don't
need a cat. Cats are requiered by FEDERAL LAW, NOT STATE
LAW. But from what I found, JRSC, Revhard, SFP all are
using high flow cats. From the dynos that are posted, it
looks like they are doing pretty well with them.

[revhardsales]

So far all our testing has been with a CAT. Cali cops look for those first. Some of them don't know where to look for the tbo but the cat is the first thing they look for.

[BlackNRedSi]

If you are going to eliminate the cat in PA, i would suggest either to get a gutted out CAT for looks, or not get caught by a cop...The odds of a PA cop looking under your car for the CAT is slim to none in PA (they A. dont know where to look, and B. dont want to get their pretty uniform dirty) but if they do, its a HUGE F'n fine if they catch you w/o it....or your other alternative is like i said, just dont get caught :)