My DIY "ICEBOX" setup

[silverstream]

Hey guys ..

Take a look at this, and comment.

My questions:
1) Probability of Hydrolocking ?

2) Since during high speed, air flows extremely fast and straight through the bottom of the car, thus, will air be sucked into the pipe at all due to pressure difference ?

[silverstream]

More pics

[silverstream]

Some more

[Si02]

My opinion I wouldn't risk harming my engine on a DIY project. Definately worry about getting shit in your engine.

[Endersi2]

yeah I am in agreement, the risk seems like that there is an incredible high probability hydrolocking can occur, even greater if you live in a rainy or snowy environment. Moreover, bernulli's law states that faster moving air exerts less pressure, but that does not change the density of the particles, that is at 70 mph there will about as many oxygen parts per million as there will be 5 mph. Its easy to confuse bernulli's law with what you did. Take my word for it Im in college physics. But then again fluid mechanics is not my deal.

[silverstream]

The wire mesh effectively protect the intake pipe from leaves, bugs, dirt. Furthermore there is air filter box for protection.

Was for water ... my thought is, the pipe is 3" in diameter ... to suck in water up an arm's length long pipe into the air filter box, need the entire intake mouth to be submerged (I am thinking along the line of drinking though a drinking straw. Any leak, water can't be sucked)

The air filter box also has drainage holes, so effectively I should be safe, other than a flood ?

Am I right ?

[Surprise]

Sorry for being off topic but what country are you from? Does your civic have a K series motor? Sorry if this has been covered before.

[silverstream]

No prob :-)

This is not a Civic .. but a 7-seater civic-based Multipurpose Vehicle (MPV)

[JSIR]

I don't think you will hydro lock unless you get into a very deep puddle which will submerge the snorkel tube for a few seconds or more. The filter is away from the source of the water and there are drain holes in the box, the stock filter will filter all dirt and dust that hits it. I had an exposed box prior to my Comptech when I was testintg stuff and my filter go real dirty quick, but in my oil analysis testing the engine had not ingested any dirt during the 3000 mile sample period. So I think you are safe overall, just avoid deep deep puddles such as I have to as well.

Joey

[silverstream]

Alternatively, I can push the entire wire mesh covered intake mouth into the splash guard while leaving the hole there.
In that case, I will be another 1/2 inch away from the ground clearance (IF IT REALLY MAKE ANY DIFF).

On the other hand, water trapped in splash guard (which happens after rain, flood, etc) will then be more easily sucked into the intake pipe, since the intake mouth and the splash guard are like 1/2" away !!!

Here's some pic of Comptech Icebox vs mine ... of coz, minus all the engineering put into ensuring pressure, etc ...

[silverstream]

Intake mouth location ... side by side comparison

[silverstream]

Intake pipe location ... side by side comparison

Note: Icebox is inside the splash guard, while mine has the splash guard cutted and exposed externally

[stubbs]

To risky in my opinion, is a shot motor worth 2-3 HP?

[ssvr6]

I don't understand what everyone is talking about. This is the same thing that Comptech is doing.

Steve

[stubbs]

most aren't that low

[silverstream]

But mine setup is only 1/2inch (at most 1inch lower) than the Icebox setup, and beyond the splash guard ... so if it floods, Icebox is also dead right ?

I am concern of normal rain.

[stubbs]

Unless it has a bypass

[ssvr6]

Guys, you're missing the point of how this works. It won't suck up water, this is not a CAI. It's an extension from the air box, that's it.


Steve

[silverstream]

Hi Steve,

Can you give some comments on the effectiveness of such "extension from airbox" DIY mob ?

[NamingException]

It's fine. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[BlasTech]

I dont think there's any danger here either.

This isnt the filter on the ground with an air-tight route straight to the engine. Its the snorkel to a box (that is not air-tight) that contains the filter. It would take a sustained, deep submersion at full throttle to pull any water up the tube to the filter, where the drain holes in the box would be the easiest way out. The conditions required to get water up that tube would most likely affect other parts of the car as well.

If you still feel a little apprehensive about this, silverstream, maybe make the drain holes a little bigger, but you shouldn't have to in my opinion.

I'm glad someone finally did this mod to the stock airbox, in terms of flow, it cant be any worse than the stock position, and you might gain some torque in the low end, depending on tests.

My recommendation is to try to borrow some kind of OBDII device to compare the before and after O2 sensor readings.

[silverstream]

Thanks for the assurance, Blastech.

In fact, that is my exact thought too, but need second opinion.
You explained it well :-)

Immediate response I get from this setup is the pulling power, first at low end (the Stream is a 1450kg 7-seater MPV, so the 156bhp is not performing great). Now it helps ... also when revved hard, there seems to be more pull at each gear change.
Last but not least, the cold air effect.

I've at the same time, changed the thermostat and fanswitch to Mugen low temp type and gotten a 1.3bar radiator cap. Also, throttlebody coolant bypass is done.
After the thermostat change, my water temperature had dropped from 101degC to 80-90degC ... reading are from OBDII.
However, I don't have the OBDII handy after the CAI mod.

This weekend is scheduled for an exhaust wrap job. (My extractors are already heat shield paint coated).

[BlasTech]

Good job on the all DIY work! What filter are you using?

[silverstream]

Am using K&N drop in filter now

[rgGolf4]

Bah! Don't listen to them. That should be fine. I run my CAI all year, through downpours and puddles. I have not had a problem running CAI's for years (on my other car). And this isn't even a true CAI, more like a RAM air type design. I say go for it.

For those who worry of hydrolock, do you know how much water would be needed to destroy the car. A 3in diameter cylinder of water would have to be sucked up by a very strong vacuum.

[silverstream]

Check these writeup:
http://www.autospeed.com/A_1023/cms/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0663

Am my intake inlet pipe at a place of negative pressure, so much that less air is sucked in ?

[jerky]

i am so sick of hearing "is that 2hp really worth your engine hydrolocking?"

all you CAI pussies might as well just get something like this:

http://www.rickcrider.com/images/HummerPics/Snorkel_complete_side_view.jpg

and shut the fuck up.:D

[andy]

Originally posted by jerky
i am so sick of hearing "is that 2hp really worth your engine hydrolocking?"

all you CAI pussies might as well just get something like this:

http://www.rickcrider.com/images/HummerPics/Snorkel_complete_side_view.jpg

and shut the fuck up.:D

:eek:
:) :D :D :D :D LMAO...

[stubbs]

If the airbox has holes its ok, it wont suck up water, but if the airbox has holes that means it really isn't going to do much anyway because you won't have a good suction to draw the air up anyway as it will pull air through the holes in the airbox.

[IceD out N CALI]

notice a difference in horsepower?

[silverstream]

Hi all,

Shifted the air intake pipe into the splash guard last night and drove to work today ... the power loss is significant especially the lack of low end ... However, mid end and high end is still good.

So, by placing the air intake pipe OUTSIDE really helps !

I might:
1) Shift it out again
2) Place an air scoop at the outside of splash guard to direct air.

[BlasTech]

OK, Im wanting to try this out, now. What diameter and length of tube did you get? and is it the vinyl over metal wire type from auto parts stores?

[hamproof]

How's the pipe connected to the filterbox? I assume if you buy 2.5 or 3" tubing, you can't really connect unless you drill a similar size hole in the box. What am I missing?

[BlasTech]

My guess is the tubing is about the right size to match the little flange on the bottom of the box, and flexible (obviously) enough to use a worm-drive or even a zip-tie to hod it on?

[Steve02Si]

why not finish it by making a forward facing ramair scoop for it?

[NamingException]

I think I might try to rig a snorkel up to my eBay intake. It's a good idea. Won't have time to work on it until next week though.

[silverstream]

Yes, it's a 3" vinyl(waxed) over wire type flexible hose. It fit the original air filter box outlet exactly. Next get a hose clip and secure it.

At the bottom, I've cable ties holding the flexible pipe to some splash shield and some holes....

[silverstream]

I might have missed out ... before I shifted the snorkel into the splash shield, I actually the rear out somemore, so that it is like a ram air scoop facing the front.

My low end was greatly improved !

[hamproof]

silverstream - can you take a picture of the connection at the airbox? I'm thinking maybe it is different from the US Si.

[silverstream]

See attached pic ... there's a small (~1") extension where the original intake pipe plugs into...
(Note this is Icebox .. but similar)

[silverstream]

Another pic

[silverstream]

For those closely following this thread, I've further modified my intake snorkel and this is a summary:

P.S: Key motivation is worried about water injestion.
-------------
1) Shifted the inlet into the splash shield.
Result: Immediate lost of low end (low end return back to stock feeling). Mid end and high end still alright

Analysis: Low end is sucking hot radiator fan air, so resulted in worst performance. Once the car pick up speed, cool air is circulated and performance is not so much affected.
-------------
2) In an attempt to restore my low end torque, I further add a air scoop outside to direct air into the intake pipe.
However, as the air scoop is not air tight with the intake pipe, the intake pipe still sucks in bits of hot radiator air.

Result: No significant improvement in low end torque.
-------------
Conclusion:
I still feel having the intake pipe inlet OUTSIDE the car provides the most significant improvement in low end torque.
Though the risk of water injestion is there .. but low probability.
My analysis is somewhat inline with what JSIR had experimented.

However, last evening's extremely heavy rain put me off the idea of placing the inlet outside the car ... so for now .. I'll stick to solution #2 for a balance between performance and risk.

[silverstream]

Here's the schema of my setup. Will post some photo soon.

Need comments

[hamproof]

silverstream - not sure where you are, but since you are driving the Stream, I assume you are not in the US. Does it snow where you are? Having it hanging below the splash guard, wouldn't it be packed with snow when you are driving around?

I would like to see how you attach the flexible pipe from the airbox on your car. I know you put up the sketch, but actual photo would be appreciated. Thanks.

[silverstream]

Hi,

I stays in Singapore. Think Florida and Hawaii.... we are all along the equator.
Coldest temperature we ever get is ~80F and hottest is ~95.
And this is ALL YEAR round. 1 season: SUMMER !

So, too cold is never a concern. Too HOT is always my concern.
My other concern is water... since now that the pipe is seperated from the snorkel, water injestion should be ruled out.

Having said that, do you think it will work for me ?

Will post some photo tomorrow.

[BlasTech]

I just bought a Intake hose from Autozone, Im going to try it out on the Si this week. I might also try to get the hose over to the side under or beside the battery, and into the wheel whell where the CAI's usually have their filters.

[silverstream]

Thought of the area below the battery .. it's still too hot down there .. it's just behind the radiator fan !
In fact, my pipe pass the space and eventually protrude from the bottom splash shield.

Too bad, still can't get hold of a OBDII to check my Air Intake Temperature :-(

[hamproof]

BlasTech & Silverstream - Have you guys read this article?

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0629

It talks about negative pressure in the intake system. I know most CAI and SRI talk about freeing up the airflow and getting lower temperature etc. but reading this article, it makes me wonder how much restriction is in our intake system to begin with.

I'm going to be pretty busy in the coming months and won't have too much time to do all the experiments in the article but I would like to know what the pressure if at the following places.

1. OEM snorkel
2. Airbox before the L-shape tube leading to the resonator
3. Airbox after the resonator
4. Airbox after the filter
5. Intake tube after the airbox

Since I duct-taped the resonator tube, I would be great to know if pressure actually drops or rises.

Also, do the Hondata airbox mod and see if pressure drops or rises as well. Though if it turns out to cause negative pressure, I guess it is too late since the box is all hacked up now :(

And if you are going to choose an area behind the battery, check if it is possible or negative pressure as well coz' part 5 of the article solved their negative pressure by finding a positive pressure area.

Thank you.

[eurosteez]

I LIKE WHAT YOU DID SILVERSTREAM, IT SEEMS PERFECT FOR DRIVING IN IDEAL CONDITIONS. SEEMS THERED BE PROBLEMS ON DIRT ROADS OR HARSHER ENVIRONMENTS THOUGH. I MIGHT DROP A HOSE BUT JUST NOT AS CLOSE THE GROUND.

[hamproof]

silverstream - I know where S'pore is. We are practically neighbors since I'm from Malaysia but have been residing in US for about 12+ years now.

I'm gonna see if I can find some 3" tube and replace the existing intake/snorkel to somewhere else.

BlasTech - keep us updated on your project this weekend. Would be great if you can take the pressure measurements before and after moving the stock intake.

[silverstream]

Here's the actual setup

[stubbs]

Were you drunk when you cut that plastis? Should have used a hack saw to cut it so it would be smooth.