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Burgh
08-13-2003, 03:00 PM
I did a search and couldn't really find the info or anyone who had these installed on their car. I had a couple of questions about the GC front camber plates:

1. I heard that they don't allow too much adjustment, is this true? Does anyone know the range of camber adjustment you can get and what is the max negative camber you can dial in?

2. I also heard that they only work with Ground Control suspensions, is this true?

Does anyone have these plates? What do you think of them? Does anyone else make camber plates other than Ground Control? (Note: I'm not interested in front camber adjustment kits sold by spc, ingalls, etc.). Thanks in advance.

TEMECEP3
08-13-2003, 05:21 PM
You don't need a camber kit in the front on the EP3...

Cone Killer
08-13-2003, 05:40 PM
What you talkin bout willis?

I've got them...and I'm not the only one for sure!

I have all the same questions about the GC kit too.

Quicksilver
08-13-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Burgh
Does anyone else make camber plates other than Ground Control?

Tein makes upper pillow mounts that fit the EP. I believe they're the equivalent of the GCs, but I don't think they work with anything but (Tein) coilovers.

I know. Not much help, but at least its something. I have no idea about the GCs.

glw
08-13-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Burgh
I did a search and couldn't really find the info or anyone who had these installed on their car. I had a couple of questions about the GC front camber plates:

1. I heard that they don't allow too much adjustment, is this true? Does anyone know the range of camber adjustment you can get and what is the max negative camber you can dial in?

2. I also heard that they only work with Ground Control suspensions, is this true?

Does anyone have these plates? What do you think of them? Does anyone else make camber plates other than Ground Control? (Note: I'm not interested in front camber adjustment kits sold by spc, ingalls, etc.). Thanks in advance. i think i now where you're headed... i, too , want to introduce a little negative camber up front. i've purchased the honda adjustment bolts and will be picking them up tomorrow and installing them soon. if anyone is interested, i'll post the results of the amount of negative camber allowed by installing 2 honda bolts on each side. i'm hoping for 1.5 degrees.

Cone Killer
08-14-2003, 07:19 AM
you will get more than -1.5, probably like a max of -3 or so.

Burgh
08-14-2003, 08:19 AM
I have a stock suspension, so the Honda replacement bolts are not going to buy me much in terms of neg camber. Maybe a degree or less. Since I don't plan on getting a new suspension or lowering the car anytime soon, I was looking into camber plates. But I'm not sure that they allow you to dial in that much neg camber either.

So I guess this means that practically nobody has camber plates? I called Showstoppers yesterday and was told that GC has camber plates in development for our cars but they're not released yet. Didn't realize that either.

SouthHonda
08-14-2003, 09:32 AM
I have GC camber plates on the front of my hatch. Blaze does too (dont know if he posts on here anymore??) After talking to the rep at GC and seeing Blaze's setup, I was sold on them. Since installing them, I really recommend them. Ive had them for 6 months or so and they are fine.

http://ground-control.com/cp_civic.jpg
here's a pic off the GC.com site

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/p755f974689925f500bd6719ac6bbb402/fc36881e.jpg
pic of mine (sorry no pic from underneath yet

They do a couple of things.
They act as a replacement top spring cup.
THey have a groove cut in them to fit the strut bearing perfectly. No more coming apart or making noise.
They allow you to drop the car farther down beacuse they are not as thick as the stock uppers. G-C.com says 24mm extra. This extra travel is what makes them so great. I can ride with them set at any height just about and it is still a great ride.
Camber adjustment can be done from the engine compartment. And I can tell you this, there is a hell of a lot of camber adjustment availible if thats what you are looking for. When I first installed them I left them a little loose and could move the top of the tire in and out from way positive to pretty extreme negative.

Ohh yeah, GC at one time didnt have a part number for them. They may now. You just had to call and ask for the camber cups for the Si. When I ordered mine they had plenty in stock. They should be right around $200 or so plus shipping from GC.

Scott

edited for my crappy spelling

glw
08-14-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Burgh
I have a stock suspension, so the Honda replacement bolts are not going to buy me much in terms of neg camber. Maybe a degree or less. Since I don't plan on getting a new suspension or lowering the car anytime soon, I was looking into camber plates. But I'm not sure that they allow you to dial in that much neg camber either.

So I guess this means that practically nobody has camber plates? I called Showstoppers yesterday and was told that GC has camber plates in development for our cars but they're not released yet. Didn't realize that either. burgh, the bolts are independent of other suspension changes. if they provide a big enough adjustment they should work for you while we wait for camber plates to be developed.

to my understanding it is a different adjustment that gets almost the same results. the camber plates move the top of the strut inboard for negative camber while the bolts adjust the bottom of the strut outward on the control arm.

the helms service manual says the adjustment for the bolts is small - less than one half a degree for each bolt. the tolerance on the negative side is -1.3 degrees, so it makes sense that the bolts will at least put that much in... cone killer also says that they'll provide over a 1.5 degrees adjustment.

i think i'll go pick them up this morning, install them, and maybe make a trip over to sears tomorrow for a check...

edit: wow it looks like gc has plates... i'll have to give them a call!

Burgh
08-14-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by SouthHonda
I have GC camber plates on the front of my hatch.

Camber adjustment can be done from the engine compartment. And I can tell you this, there is a hell of a lot of camber adjustment availible if thats what you are looking for. When I first installed them I left them a little loose and could move the top of the tire in and out from way positive to pretty extreme negative.


SouthHonda: Thanks for all the good info. Do you know exactly how much negative you can do with it is (does it have the little markings on it)? This is exactly what I was looking for except that I was told that GC didn't make camber plates for our cars yet. Do you have a GC suspension or something else?

glw: I looked into getting the replacement bolt too but I think I'd prefer camber plates because I've heard too many stories about crash bolts slipping. I think the bolts would help give you lots of negative camber when you already have a lowered ride height. But at stock height, as you said, I can probably only get about a degree or so.

TI 3VOM
08-14-2003, 02:00 PM
i know this won't help much, but i have previous experience in camber plates on other macpherson strut suspension cars.

if the camber plates replace the upper cup, you will have to find springs to fit that (diameter). usually coilovers are used with camber plates for this reason. also, most macpherson suspension springs have a much larger diameter than aftermarket coilovers. the larger diameter interferes with adjustment as you are limited by the distance you can move the top of the spring before it contacts the strut tower. this often does not allow much movement.

anyways, a coilover setup would probably be necessary for GCs camber plates, logically thinking, since they specialize in that sort of suspension.

Cone Killer
08-14-2003, 04:10 PM
The progress springs did little to change the camber so I think you could still get -1.5 or more at a stock height with one bolt.

Also when you adjust the camber with the bolts you also move the toe inward, or the wheels start to point towards each other, so don't put the bolts in without doing an alignment each time. Sounds like the camber cups would adjust the camber without adjusting the toe, big thumbs up from me.

As far as the bolts coming lose, it has happend to me a few times. The trick is to use and air tool to get a LOT of torque on the bolts, other wise the bolts will move. On a side note, the bolts only came loose when i was autocrossing, and rarely on the street, as there aren't that many forces acting on the suspension.

Burgh
08-15-2003, 11:53 AM
Okay, I called Ground Control this morning. They DO have a racing plate for the Si/RSX/Civics with the McStruts up front. It's $219 before shipping. The guy said that it would work with stock struts but wouldn't give you too much in terms of adjustment range. They were obviously designed to work with GC's parts

Now it's time to start the hunt for someone who makes a "universal" camber plate.

Also, SouthHonda, the picture you show in your post looks different from any of the other camber plates I've seen (the flat ones with the degree markings on them).

TI 3VOM
08-15-2003, 01:06 PM
a possibility (http://www.sdjmotorsports.com/UnivCambr.htm)

google it.

SouthHonda
08-15-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted By Burgh

SouthHonda: Thanks for all the good info. Do you know exactly how much negative you can do with it is (does it have the little markings on it)? This is exactly what I was looking for except that I was told that GC didn't make camber plates for our cars yet. Do you have a GC suspension or something else?

Yeah I run GC sleeve coilovers till I decide to pluck down for the Tein SS or Flex. I did a quick alignment on it and didnt pay attention to the full pos and full neg measurements. I will get that at somepoint. I was gonna play with it at some point (track day) and make my own marks as to where the best daily settings and track settings would be.

Originally Posted By Burgh

Also, SouthHonda, the picture you show in your post looks different from any of the other camber plates I've seen (the flat ones with the degree markings on them).

Yeah, when I first opend them I was a little dissappointed in that they werent marked. These are just a version that is made for our cars so it may look different from whats out there. The other camber plates I have put in other cars or sold before all looked different. Some had marks and some did not.

Hope all this helps you decide.

Scott