Jackson SC vs. Greddy Turbo kit

[beansbear]

I realize the Jackson SC hasnt come out yet, but I have seen the dyno charts and wanted to know if anyone that has the Greddy kit has a dyno chart for it?

If you were to buy one which will you buy and why? I am currently torn over which to purchase....

[02SilverSiHB]

turbo, why? More power and I can have an intercooler.

[super_si_45]

turbo definatly, the only plus of a sc is that u will have boost from the get go, thats about it. the jackson sc is pure shit, dyno only added 30 hp to the wheels, and took 1/4 time from a 15.8 to a 15.4, ha, what a joke, turbo definatly, and the jackson sc is already out, it came out in july.

[civic hatch boi]

turbo, becase it only ruins ur gas mileage when u reach a certain rpm :) sc's use up more gas all the ti me.

[MetRx]

Originally posted by super_si_45
turbo definatly, the only plus of a sc is that u will have boost from the get go, thats about it. the jackson sc is pure shit, dyno only added 30 hp to the wheels, and took 1/4 time from a 15.8 to a 15.4, ha, what a joke, turbo definatly, and the jackson sc is already out, it came out in july.

Where did you see time slips for the quarter on that kit? Is that on their site? or just hear say? I was planning on buying that SC, but im not gonna waste my time or money if im only going from 15.8 to a 15.4. Were there any other mods on that car? I just cant imagine the super charger being that weak...

Matt.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by civic hatch boi
turbo, becase it only ruins ur gas mileage when u reach a certain rpm :) sc's use up more gas all the ti me.
? really my JRSC didn't. It only boost when you smash the pedal. There is no boost when driving normal...there for the injectors and fuel pump do not open up more for more fuel.

[super_si_45]

Originally posted by MetRx


Where did you see time slips for the quarter on that kit? Is that on their site? or just hear say? I was planning on buying that SC, but im not gonna waste my time or money if im only going from 15.8 to a 15.4. Were there any other mods on that car? I just cant imagine the super charger being that weak...

Matt.


Sport Compact Car had a huge special on the kit with only an AEM CAI, and a catback, it stated times, 0 to 60, etc., etc., along with the RSX kit, i dont really recal which issue (hell, it could of been Super Street), but it was in writing

[MetRx]

Well, if thats the case then im gonna have to buy something else. Unless that SC also stands for Super Cheap. Im really not interested in driving around a supercharged civic si thats gonna get its ass whooped by most stock cars now a days. Ugh, more and more i begin to think i shoulda went and bought a used wrx.

Matt.

[beansbear]

does anyone who still posts here have either kit?

id like impressions and info on what to avoid...

Can the Greddy kit be installed by someone who can wrench his own car with moderate skills? Welding involved?

[PogoFX]

I find 15.4 with a JRSC a bit difficult to believe. Sounds a bit high, since some are already getting 15.4's with various combinations of I/H/E/Hondata.

Another thing to consider is reliability. From the research I've done and the experience of owning five turbocharged cars, I believe the JRSC will hold up better in the long run. For instance, the supercharger is self contained, while a turbo requires lubrication from your oil system. Those who have had JRSC's please jump in and share your opinions on reliability.:)

[MetRx]

Yeah, id like to hear from some JRSC owners. I hope i hear better things about this kit when it actually arrives. I plan on buying some sort of boost this fall/winter, and installing in the spring. I was dead set on the JRSC kit, but i dont want it at all if it doesnt make my car any faster than that. It just doesnt make sense, were they running it with stock tires? or what? Im gonna go try to find a mag with that kit in it.

Matt.

[super_si_45]

Originally posted by beansbear
does anyone who still posts here have either kit?

id like impressions and info on what to avoid...

Can the Greddy kit be installed by someone who can wrench his own car with moderate skills? Welding involved?

hey man, i have the greddy kit sitting at my brothers shop, we r installing it monday, it depends on what kind of moderate skills, for example, i will be doing all the bolt on, piping peices (turbine, manifold, etc., etc.), while my brother will be doing all the wiring sit (injectors, e mange unit in the ecu, etc., etc.) i wouldnt really consider us moderate though, more of a scale of 1 to 10 probably a 8 for me, 10 for him, anyways, the only welding i know of so far is the (optional) aluminum flange that welds to the charge pipe for the type-s blow off valve (or any bov for that matter), i will do a DIY for any problems i run into and take some ics to though, ill keep ya posted ;)

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by super_si_45
turbo definatly, the only plus of a sc is that u will have boost from the get go, thats about it. the jackson sc is pure shit, dyno only added 30 hp to the wheels, and took 1/4 time from a 15.8 to a 15.4, ha, what a joke, turbo definatly, and the jackson sc is already out, it came out in july.

I don't think really know what you're talking about. The JRSC street version added onto a stock Si is adding over 50 hp to the wheels, according to their dynos. Even if people were to make the argument that JR skewed the results by having a stocker dyno at 125hp vs. the more common 135-140whp, that's still about 40hp to the wheels. In Honda Tuning, the tested the JR's race setup and got around a 14.5 in the 1/4 mile in less than ideal conditions (high temperatures). I would think the street version would be able to hit high 14s without a problem under most conditions. And neither kit has been released. If you'd read any of the other post in here, particularly the one that Oscar Jackson III started, you'd know that.

According to GReddy, the Si turbo will add 50hp to our cars. They don't have any dyno charts to show before and after comparisions though, so that figure doesn't really mean a lot to me. The benefit of their kit, though, is that it's easy to upgrade it with an intercooler upgrade (probably for around $700 retail when it's released) which will up the boost probably around 1.5psi and give you an additional 25-35whp. That's a cheap power upgrade!

Compare that to the upgrade for the JRSC, the race version does not seem worth the money. The race version dyno, according to Oscar, was done with bolt ons added (intake, JR race header, and exhaust). The street version apparently was stock aside from the supercharger. I plotted a RPM/TQ and RPM/HP spreadsheet to find that out that you're not really getting any more power than if you added I/H/E to the street version, aside from the added rpms. That just allows it to keep ramping up the power, moreso than making more power across the powerband. Most likely the race upgrade outprice itself at around $800-1000 for what basically amounts to a higher redline. Not really worth it in my opinion.

As far as other pluses and minuses, I like the lack of lag on the supercharger. If GReddy uses a small enough turbo, there may be a minimal lag in boost, thus compensating for that. The turbo will have more power potential safely thanks to the intercooler. Given that, the turbo will be able to beat the supercharger at the strip under similar boost conditions, but they're more prone to technical difficulties (heat issues, tuning, etc.). Price-wise, you're looking at nearly identical initial pricepoint at about $2700 retail each. I think at that point, I give a narrow edge to the JRSC just for it's everyday drivability/factory performance feel. If the upgrades (Hondata/injectors vs. Intercooler) hold similar prices ($700-1000 ballpark), then the turbo get the better power results for the price.

That's my take on the whole thing. It's not really an apples-to-apples comparision, because it's impossible to compare the two platforms that way. But maybe it'll help a few people decide what they want. I'm personally waiting for the JRSC street version for it's "install it and forget about it" reliability. I also drive 70 miles round trip each day, a good portion of which is in the 2500-3000 rpm range, I'd like to have more low-end torque without lag.

[super_si_45]

dont you guys love smart asses who dont know what the hell they are talking about?

1st of all YES the sc is out, my broher has 1 for an 02 si hatch it his shop

2nd the intercooler does not retail for 700, it retails for 950

3rd the sc only adds 30 or 40 TO THE WHEELS, uv mistakin for flywheel genius

4th iv physically seen an 02 si hatch with a jrsc run a 15.15 (best) CONSISTANT 15.4s

last but certainly not least i know iv missed tons of crap youv screwed up, try to talk TO people rather than DOWN TO people, it will certainly get you further in life :mad:

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by super_si_45

4th iv physically seen an 02 si hatch with a jrsc run a 15.15 (best) CONSISTANT 15.4s
where did you see this?

I know that time sound like ass, but was the car tuned? Who was driving it? What type of suspension? Was it weighed down some how, but maybe some subs in the back?

the reason I ask, is when I had my JRSC on my 1997 civic ex, it cut 1.7 seconds off my 1/4 mile time, and it was untuned..didn't last long :) that's a whole other story.

I think that if I was to get the jrsc at the street version, I would hit a mid 14 no problem. I'm already hitting a 15.5 on 17's. But I highly doubt I'll get the jrsc, I didn't care too much for it back then, no way to have an ic and adding boost is a bitch. not too mention tip in detonation was a struggle for not only me but a lot of others.

[super_si_45]

i saw it at texas motor speedway about 2 months ago, i believe it was a near complete prototype from jr, the 02 si had full interior, stock height, stock suspension, pretty much stock other than the cai and catback, yes he did actually have 2 10s in the back and the driver was an old ass 45 or 50 year old man, all i was doing was making a point on what i had read in black and white and seen with my own eyes, the kid could put a damn lawnmower motor in his car for all i care, all i was doing was giving my opinion and stating facts of what i saw (02silver, im not pointing this at u bro, all of u know who its directed to) anways, well, its 11pm sunday, i will be gettin up around 11 tommorw and gettin started on the beast, ill let yall know :D ;) :p

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by super_si_45
.. anways, well, its 11pm sunday, i will be gettin up around 11 tommorw and gettin started on the beast, ill let yall know :D ;) :p
good luck on the install!

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by super_si_45
dont you guys love smart asses who dont know what the hell they are talking about?

1st of all YES the sc is out, my broher has 1 for an 02 si hatch it his shop

2nd the intercooler does not retail for 700, it retails for 950

3rd the sc only adds 30 or 40 TO THE WHEELS, uv mistakin for flywheel genius

4th iv physically seen an 02 si hatch with a jrsc run a 15.15 (best) CONSISTANT 15.4s

last but certainly not least i know iv missed tons of crap youv screwed up, try to talk TO people rather than DOWN TO people, it will certainly get you further in life :mad:

I was just trying to bring some information to this person's thread. He wanted to know the pros and cons of each kit. That's the information I'd given. I was in the same situation as this person, so I was just trying to help spread what knowledge I'd gained about each product and the results you could expect. If it seemed like I was talking down to you, I appologize. That was not my intent.

Considering that each kit has just been (or soon to be) released, I think it's too early to make any definitive statements about either. Once each is in the hand of a few members and they do their dynos, road tests, runs at the strip, and get their reviews in, then we'll have a better "real world" idea of what you'll get with each.

To respond back to your above statements:

1) I just called up Jackson Racing to confirm if the kit had been release yet or not. They told me that it is not out yet and they currently do not have a release date. Mind you, the Sales departments at many companies are usually the last to know anything, but even Little O (Oscar III) had stated that it would be delayed until Sept. If your brother has one in his shop, then I'd be interested to know how he got ahold of it.

2) As far as the intercooler pricing goes, is that MSRP or retail? From prices on previous released GReddy kits, it was a good indicator that the price would be around $700 retail. By that I mean that a Borla cat-back, for example, has a MSRP or around $595, but can be bought for around $425 if you do some searching. That's the kind of "retail" price I was talking about.

3) I was not mistaking it for flywheel hp. Go to Jackson Racing's website and they have their 2002-03 Si dyno results showing approximately a 50whp gain. How are you coming up with your figure of 30hp? Can you post a dyno graph showing the before and after results?

4) Again, I'd be interested to know how someone already has this kit when it hasn't been officially released yet. What kind of track is it they were running at (i.e. is it considered a "slow" track or a "fast" track?)? How much 1/4 experience did the person have? I can see that if a person had a stock 02 or 03 si with just a JRSC at a lousy track, then I'm sure you could be right about the times. High temperatures plus bad traction equals high ETs for anyone.

*EDIT* You already answered some of the above for me. I hadn't gotten a chance to see your latter post about the track times. If it was a prototype and a bad driver on stock tires, then 15.4 consistently is possible. The final release with non-stock setup should net people significantly better elapsed times than that though.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by Quicksilver
3) I was not mistaking it for flywheel hp. Go to Jackson Racing's website and they have their 2002-03 Si dyno results showing approximately a 50whp gain. How are you coming up with your figure of 30hp? Can you post a dyno graph showing the before and after results?

4) Again, I'd be interested to know how someone already has this kit when it hasn't been officially released yet. What kind of track is it they were running at (i.e. is it considered a "slow" track or a "fast" track?)? How much 1/4 experience did the person have? I can see that if a person had a stock 02 or 03 si with just a JRSC at a lousy track, then I'm sure you could be right about the times. High temperatures plus bad traction equals high ETs for anyone.
I agree with you on this, I was also confused as to where he was getting the hp numbers. I'm very confident that maybe even a low 14 can be obtained with the jrsc even on street setup with i/h/e.
Here's a dyno graph for the 03 si street setup, doesn't say if it has i/h/e or not
http://www.jacksonracing.com/pages/details/detailjr/images/03%20Civic%20SI%20Street%20SC%20.gif

Here is the race setup which is just adding hondata flash program and bigger 440cc injectors...typical of hondata
http://www.jacksonracing.com/pages/details/detailjr/images/03%20Civic%20SI%20Race%20SC.gif

For only 5lbs of boost that is very impressive, you can see how hondata and the bigger injectors help. I also think this would help keep away from any tip in detonation...common for a jrsc...as it gives so much boost so soon and the stock ecu and injectors can sometimes not keep up and deliver enough fuel. This kinda makes me want it more, since it's only 5lbs of boost and shouldn't generate too much heat. It all depends on the pricing though. And not to mention I could install this myself easily. I would just need the tool to remove the crankshaft pully to replace it with the jrsc one. And another thing I like about this new jrsc, is the size of the belt. It's nice and fat :D so I don't think there will be much of a chance for the belt to slip.

[super_si_45]

damn u guys just dont quit do u, when i get off, i will go to my brothers shop and find the issue i read the numbers in, then, i will pick up the jackson racing box with the sc in it and copy the part number, hell, i will take pictures and post it since he "doesnt have one", i guess i need to just shut up and not post anymore of my "experiences" since everyone just wants to contradict them, and call them foul, from now on, i know nothing, and i guess i wont post my opinion, or facts that iv read anymore:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[bmx269]

super_si_45 dont get all worked up about others, I am interested in the findings on hte production kit as are alot of people. We are all just basing our info on stuff we have read, not necessarily facts. :) Keep the info flowin.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by super_si_45
damn u guys just dont quit do u, when i get off, i will go to my brothers shop and find the issue i read the numbers in, then, i will pick up the jackson racing box with the sc in it and copy the part number, hell, i will take pictures and post it since he "doesnt have one", i guess i need to just shut up and not post anymore of my "experiences" since everyone just wants to contradict them, and call them foul, from now on, i know nothing, and i guess i wont post my opinion, or facts that iv read anymore:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
dude, like bmx said, we're just looking for all angles of info. I know a turbo will beat a jrsc in a striaght line for sure. I'm just saying that a jrsc would be better for autox people and daily drivers not looking for the most power they can get. I know that with a jrsc you have to accept the fact that you will not get near as much power as a turbo and you shouldn't think you're going to go blazing fast. I'm still slightly scared of the jrsc not having an intercooler. I'm sure you saw the numbers and saw a bad run...but you know like I do that sometime shit happens and people have bad days at the track or have a hard time tuning. I think the jrsc setup is better than the past setups, that's my point. you wouldn't need as much as before to get the jrsc tuned correctly. I can believe your brother may have a kit...since I had an email telling me about how they are for sale all ready and what the street kit comes with and what the race kit comes with....when that little oscar guy didn't even know...that gave me a feeling he doesn't know all of what's going on. I'm not contradicting you, that I know of. I just don't know where you got your numbers from for the hp on the jrsc's

Edit: how is the install going by the way?

[02SilverSiHB]

hey super, man, you're gonna need a pic of that jrsc :D jrpower says it's not true
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=213161#post213161

don't get offended, but I know someone is going to say this before I do. Don't let it get to you the wrong way.

by the way, one thing I want to know about the greddy turbo...is the turbo smaller than the t3/t4 that cybernation come with? I'm kind of hoping so, as I want the power to spool faster if I go turbo.

[ep_nezay]

Originally posted by 02SilverSiHB


by the way, one thing I want to know about the greddy turbo...is the turbo smaller than the t3/t4 that cybernation come with? I'm kind of hoping so, as I want the power to spool faster if I go turbo.

I havent seen the cybernation turbo in person. But maybe someone can compare my Greddy turbo with the cybernation one.
Then youll get your answer:)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/pafdb55e84bc2eb76df54165285e7b427/fb56555b.jpg

[civic hatch boi]

super... i think ur brother has a jrsc for the wrong model ... the kits not out for our cars yet. unless ur bro is Mr. Jackson himself, he doesn't have it. i'd like to see pics as well with a label reading "For 02+ Civic SI's".... also... whoever you saw driving 15.4's all day with a supercharged Si can't drive worth doodoo..some people get mid 15's stock. EVEN if wut you say is true about the 30WHP (which i doubt, more like 50WHP).. even with 30whp... u should be way out of the 15's.

[civic hatch boi]

oh yeah.. also.. super, what are you running with your greddy turbo? low 14's?

[super_si_45]

ok, yes u were right the kits not for our car, my bad on that one, honest mistake

im not sure if its bigger than the t3/t4 turbo, but the greddy turbo is a t517z

im not quite done with the install (iv only had a couple hours a day, should be done today for sure) all i have left is the e manage unit, blow off valve, and the a-pillar pod with gauges

hence, im not sure if my car runs low 14s or what, where did u get that number? or were u just being a smart ass like other people on here?

ok i think i got all the question

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by super_si_45
ok, yes u were right the kits not for our car, my bad on that one, honest mistake

im not sure if its bigger than the t3/t4 turbo, but the greddy turbo is a t517z

im not quite done with the install (iv only had a couple hours a day, should be done today for sure) all i have left is the e manage unit, blow off valve, and the a-pillar pod with gauges

hence, im not sure if my car runs low 14s or what, where did u get that number? or were u just being a smart ass like other people on here?

ok i think i got all the question
you'll be in the low 14's with the ic you get later on. Not too sure how you'll do with this damn texas heat. no prob about the jrsc thing ;) shit happens...I know I've had my share. I found a turbo mag that talks about the greddy turbo for our car. I think I answered my own question once I read it. It seems to spool slightly faster than the t3/4 one from cybernation. I was also surprised to see it comes with 370cc injectors..I kepts seeing people say 440, that's for the rsx-s. Either way, those injectors should be fine for a little more boost, especially with the e management.
Good luck on the install. you're doin it the right way by taking your time and getting right the first time.

[super_si_45]

thanks bro, yea i just talked to my brother and he is doin the e manage right now, so it should definatly (knock on wood) be done by today, ill let u know :)

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by super_si_45
thanks bro, yea i just talked to my brother and he is doin the e manage right now, so it should definatly (knock on wood) be done by today, ill let u know :)
that will be sweet man! I can't wait to see how it runs. It sounds like if I go turbo, greddy will be the best for me. I don't plan on going all out and crazy with the cybernation kit and I'd like to keep my exhaust legal :)

[super_si_45]

ok guys, done, lots and lots of pics coming tonight (like late after i get off) :p ;) :D

[ep_nezay]

what happened to the pictures?

[fsugatorbait]

Yeah what about those pics?