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Quicksilver
08-26-2003, 12:00 PM
I've search a lot of the older threads for people's advise on amps and subs and I think I've narrowed it down to a few. I'm looking for quality over quantity. I mostly listen to Top 40, Rock/Alternative, and Hip Hop. My current list of parts is Alpine 7995 head unit, Boston Z6 components in the front, and Boston RM6's in the back. I'm wanting amps that will utilize the full capabilities of this setup without blowing them. I also want a super crisp sound all around.

The amps I'm looking at are:
JL Audio 4/450 and 500/1
Orion 8004 and 1200D
Kicker 800.4 and 600.1

I arranged them in price as I found them so far. With the Kickers, it would be around $500 total. The Orions would be around $800 total. And the JLs are looking to be around $900. (These are just ballpark figures from what I remember off the top of my head based off the prices I've seen on sale). I'd also be interested in Audiobahn, but I know nothing about their amps.

I have friends that have Boston Pro series comps that love the Kicker amps and feel that they'll give me what I'm looking for, but if it comprimises the sound with distortion that I can hear, I'll be disappointed. But shelling out almost $1000 on amps, as opposed to $500, is a hard pill to swallow.

As far as subs go, I was thinking either a single Kicker S10L7 or a JL 10" W6 in an sealed enclosure in the trunk.

Total budget on all remaining components (amp and sub) would be around $700-1200. Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kurtis

IceD out N CALI
08-26-2003, 12:29 PM
well, i would suggest getting a single JL 12 inch w6 with a 250/1 amp. that will pretty much be all the bass you'll need + it wont weigh your car down too much. I had that setup with a box tuned to 26 hertz. sounded good, and hit deep:)

Speck
08-26-2003, 12:43 PM
There is one thing that I cannot stress enough....

Do not forget to take into account what the amps look like!

I know it's sounds off kilter, but think of it this way. You ever seen a pair of older Kicker amps? I cannot stand them, they look like my BBQ grill!!

Personally I prefer the JL Slash series amps, for the clean looks as well as the clean sound. With the JL amps, you can expect at LEAST the rated amount of power to the speakers from 2ohm to 8ohm. So, no worrying about the resistance of the subs!!

The Boston series is incredible.. and expensive too.

I would suggest a set of Focal Polykevlars instead, if you want to spend in that range. Brands of speakers to look at besides bostons:

Focal
CDT
A/D/S
Rainbow

These are non name brand speakers but are some of the highest quality that I have ever heard!! Expensive, but worth it.

-=speck=-

Quicksilver
08-26-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Speck
The Boston series is incredible.. and expensive too.


I got the Z6s for $400 and the RM6's for $115 when The Good Guys decided to stop carrying them and blow them out at 1/2 off. It was well worth it in my mind considering what they usually retail for.



I know it's sounds off kilter, but think of it this way. You ever seen a pair of older Kicker amps? I cannot stand them, they look like my BBQ grill!!

Personally I prefer the JL Slash series amps, for the clean looks as well as the clean sound. With the JL amps, you can expect at LEAST the rated amount of power to the speakers from 2ohm to 8ohm. So, no worrying about the resistance of the subs!!

The looks of the Kicker vs. the JLs don't bother me. Both seem fine enough for the job. I like the Orions look a little better than either of the other two. They've got a clean, smooth look to them. Car Audio magazine's Si is what started me looking at those. I think the Audiobahns have one of the best looks IMO, but I don't know about their quality and sound (no experience).

If I went with a JL 250 for the bass, what kind of power would I need for the front? The speakers are rated from 20-400 watts, so I was thinking around the 75-100w range. Does that sound about right or would the front potentially overpower the bass? I realize that you can asjust these all, but I'm just talking in gross figures.

Thanks again. Keep the replies coming!

Edit: I was wrong about the Orions. Like the JLs, I thought they were rated from 1.5 to 4 ohms at the same power level. Turns out it was only the JLs.

Speck
08-26-2003, 05:43 PM
I am running 500 watts to my W7 and running 75 watts to my fronts and rears. I think it may be because of the w7's SQ but it DEFINATELY does not overpower them at all. So I would say between 60 and 100 would do you good.

I wasn't trying to swing you towards JL. You even mentioned Orion is a look you like. So, my point on that was, make sure you get something you can look at everyday and smile about :)

Also, about running 250 watts.... there are quite a few subs out there that take 250 and sounds like 1000w. So, just make sure of what you get, and research them on forum.sounddomain.com.

Audiobahns: You are going to get two crowds on this one. The haters and the lovers, there aren't a lot of inbetweens. The subs are NOT able to handle the rated power for extended periods of time, unless you are getting the higher end models. Audiobahns subs are really an SPL type, IMHO. Now, the amps.... Yes they do look good, I like the look of the Flame series, but after owning one and having those flames rattleing all the damn time, I got rid of it. I switched to a Kicker amp of the same RMS, and the sound difference was night and day. So... it appears as if the amps are not sending alot of clean signal.

I don't hate audiobahn, I just won't put them in my car. Now, if you like the look of the amps, I would suggest the older Phoenix Gold TI series, the look alot like the newer audiobahn amps, but are incredible as far as the quality.

And dammit, where were you when I need new speakers!!!??? $400 for Boston Z's? DAYMMMMM!!!!

-=speck=-

Quicksilver
08-26-2003, 06:04 PM
I know you weren't trying to swing me toward the JLs. Most posts I've read say nothing bad at all about them. That's why I'm drawn to them for a purchase. After reading a few people's replies back, I'm thinking I can go with slightly less power. Maybe a JL 300/4 and 250/1 combo. That would put me at around $700 and another $200 for a good sub would put me at $900. Which is good, because it's nearer to the bottom of my budget.

Can someone explain to me the differences in the JL subs (i.e. 10W6 vs. 10W3v2 vs. the others in the line)? This is my first time dealing with subs, so forgive my ignorance.

As far as my Boston components, I had to go to 3 different Good Guys to find those (or any other Boston speakers for that matter). After seeing that I wasn't likely to find the Pro components at any others without a lot more driving, I decided to "super sized" to the Zs. It was just dumb luck that they had the RM6's that I wanted too. Even though I only have them temporarily installed with the stock head unit, they sound incredible!

Speck
08-26-2003, 06:17 PM
That's a big question, Differences in JL Subs

ok here goes:

W0 - Entry level sub, takes 60-250W
W3 - Entry/Mid level sub, Takes 100-300W( Will take MUCH more)
W3V2 - Mid Level subs, Takes 75-500W, Upgrade from W3 line, new looks, little more power
W6 - Entry/mid level subs (nowadays), takes up to 500W
W6V2 - High level Sub, takes up to 750W, the 13" takes 1000w
W7 - HIGH end sub, the 10" takes up to 1000w, the 12" takes up to 1500w and the 13" takes up to 2000w

Now, you are talking about 250W to the sub, I would recommend getting a W6V2. This sub would allow you more headroom if you decided you want more power, it will thump at 250W but it will SING at 500W. It is VERY clear in the sound.

The different version of JL's woofers are indicitive of the years gone by. I have listed them from the oldest to the newest.... except for putting the W6 after the W3V2.

They are incredible subs. BUT, they are expensive. If you don't mind buying off of the internet, I would HIGHLY recommend the Adire Audio Brahma (http://www.adireaudio.com/mobile_audio/drivers/brahma_series.htm)
Or the Elemental Designs A series (http://www.edesignaudio.com/ep/aseries.htm) These A series subs compare to the W7 at HALF the price.

Feel free to ask any more questions at all. Don't do the mistake that I did when I first got into car audio and buy things cause ONE person told me to. Do your research, check Http://forum.sounddomain.com They can help you with ANY audio questions at all.

-=speck=-

Quicksilver
08-27-2003, 08:41 AM
I got a chance to look at Sounddomains' forums. From what people's posts, it sounds like they're loving those Elemental Designs speakers and amps. So I went and took a look at them online. It they are as good as people are saying, that may be the direction I'm going. Those are amazing prices! For the prices they're selling them at, I'm tempted to go all Elemental Designs for my amps and sub. I like the fact that they have great power, low thd, require tiny amounts of cubic ft. for the subs, and good reviews. I got a chance to look at the Brahma's also, but I just wasn't "feeling it" with them. (I know, stupid reason)

After doing some intensive price-checking on the internet, I did a breakdown of what each system would cost if I went all one brand for subs and amps. I couldn't find reliable prices/sources for Orions, so I didn't include it below.

Kicker: 800.4 amp (100x4); 600.1 amp (300x1); S10L7 sub
Total price: $705 (including shipping/tax)

JL Audio: 300/4 amp (75x4); 500/1 amp (500x1); 10W6 sub
Total price: $970 (including shipping/tax)

Elemental Designs: 600.4 amp (110x4); 800.2 amp (800x1); E10A sub
Total price: $835 (not including shipping and possibly tax)

I kept the Kicker and JL comparison as close to apples to apples as I could, but some amps seemed a better price point than others. I went a little hog-wild with the power on the EDs because they have such good prices and it was the recommeneded power load for the sub.

Given those setups, can you guys tell me the pluses and minuses of each? Feel free to mix and match components, if you don't like the amp/sub combos. I realize that the Kickers are probably not as clean as the JLs, but I'm wondering if the EDs could sound even better than the JLs considering I'm looking at 10W6 sub and not the 10w7. And the ED sub should be louder than the others given the 800w amp.

Thanks for all of the advice, especially you Speck! Let me know if I'm on the right track....

Speck
08-28-2003, 06:37 AM
Well I cannot help too much with the Kickers, I don't really care for them SQ wise, Personal preferance, not anything mechanical.

You are on the right track, except if you want to compare apples to apples, you need to replace the JL 10W6 (I assume, you mean the V2, if not, then it is WAY off the mark) with a JL 10W7 to even attempt to compare it to the ED10A. That 10A is incredible!!

Those avionixx amps are great, people are really happy with them.

If I was to redo my system, I would go ALL Elemental designs. I love the look, the price and the performance.

Also, if you were looking at the W6V2 instead of the W7, I would compare that to the ED10O not the A

-=speck=-

2k3vbpEP
08-28-2003, 03:19 PM
You should be happy with this setup. I currently have an Alpine CDA-7995 with JL Audio 300/4 and 500/1 powering factory speakers and a single JL Audio 10w6v2 in a .80 cuft sealed enclosure and it sounds great. I plan on upgrading the fronts to CDT ES-620's in the near future and CDT CL-6XB in the rear for fill.

Quicksilver
08-29-2003, 04:46 PM
Okay. New thoughts. Really leaning toward the Elemental Designs, but I'd decided to tone it down a bit (no pun intended). I think this would be the best for my needs. Enough power to make some serious noise, but nothing that will blow the windows out or deafen me. Also, I like the light weight and small compartment space needed for the 8" sub. This will most likely be what I end up buying.

ED 440.4 amp (85w x 4) to power the Bostons f/r
(or do you think it's better to go with 110w x 4 given the speaker's capacities and the power of the sub?)

ED 400.2 amp (400w x 1) to power the sub
ED E8A.44 sub (450 rms recommended)

Total Cost (barring tax/shipping): $575 ($650 if I go with the more powerful 4 channel amp)

Let me know your thoughts.

Speck
08-30-2003, 04:43 AM
I would go with the 110x4, bring out the quality more.


DING DING DING! I think we have a winner! That sounds like a great setup!!!

-=speck=-

IceD out N CALI
08-30-2003, 01:55 PM
go for whatever best suits your needs. U can make one 10 work and it could go pretty loud. Might not be deep enough in some cases but would save you weight. DOnt forget amps arnt all that light either. I had a 250/1 amp. it was like a lil brick, like 11lbs if i remember correctly. total with big box 1 12 inch w6 and amp was 54lbs

i'm guessin a 10 with a smaller (perhaps sealed) box + amp could run bout 40lbs or so

Speck
08-30-2003, 04:11 PM
I have a 500/1 and a JL 10W7, it gets really low (20hz), not loud at that low, but around 40hz I am REALLY impressed that it's a 10 :)

-=speck=-