Considering '03 Si for daily driver. How is it?

[droideka]

Haven't test driven it yet, but understand the torque band is a lot beefier than the '02 Civic EX sedan I just got rid of.

Not looking to mod at all and will keep it stock except for a tint job. I've already got another car that's a money pit of brake pads and tires.

[bobdobbs]

If you're looking for something that you don't have to mod, you should look elsewhere. The factory tires and wheels are puny and the car sits too high. Get an SVT Focus if you want a already-tuned car you can drive every day.

[Si-Sissy-PA]

I beg to differ -

It depends on a few things though.

Traffic, mainly.

I spent the weekend in Long Island, NY -- and this car is annoying to drive in traffic when you have all kinds of torque under there, but you can't use it -- and you get tired quick of having a manual in the city anyway.

I love the car for my daily drive, no traffic - and I can cruise.

it's got everything I wanted in a car... sunroof, cruise, and it's fast enough to always put a smile on my face.

Fun to mod down the road too, but mine's stock aside from an Injen CAI.

[JLannoo]

Originally posted by bobdobbs
If you're looking for something that you don't have to mod, you should look elsewhere. The factory tires and wheels are puny and the car sits too high. Get an SVT Focus if you want a already-tuned car you can drive every day.

You dont have to mod the Si. Its great as a daily driver. Only knock I can think of is the ride is a little harsh for long commutes.

[droideka]

I'm simply looking for a commuter and appreciate the added functionality of the hatch and fold-down seats. I put 20K miles on my Z in one year commuting to and from work 50+ miles a day. Driving a stick in traffic is a non-issue for me.

I don't need the Si to be track worthy, just nice enough to enjoy the commute.

[IceD out N CALI]

it is a good daily driver, but you gotta like the looks though. lot of people dont like the minivan look

[droideka]

Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
it is a good daily driver, but you gotta like the looks though. lot of people dont like the minivan look

I do like it. A lot of people hate the Z, but I don't give a shit. I punish weak drivers in much more expensive cars on the track. That's what I care about. ;)

[IceD out N CALI]

Originally posted by droideka


I do like it. A lot of people hate the Z, but I don't give a shit. I punish weak drivers in much more expensive cars on the track. That's what I care about. ;)

if that is the case then there is a good chance you will like this car:)

[bobdobbs]

Don't get me wrong, I love the car. But I think the tires were put on there knowing they would be replaced. Ditto the wheels, but you can get away with just beefier rubber. I think it's a great daily driver, which is why I bought it, but I find driving it in stock form unsatisfying, as I think someone who owns a 350Z would. Fortunately it's cheap enough that you can customize it to your liking and still have less into it than an SVT Focus. If you aren't interested in customizing, the SVT Focus is already done.

[IceD out N CALI]

get the svt focus at your own risk. my girlfriend just got rid of her focus cuz of so many mechanical problems at only 40k miles (after warranty expired)

[bobdobbs]

Yeah, that's a drawback and something to consider. Obviously I think the Si is a better car (because I bought one) but if I wanted something to just buy-and-drive, I would have gotten the SVT.

[2k2_nbp_egg]

Originally posted by droideka


I do like it. A lot of people hate the Z, but I don't give a shit. I punish weak drivers in much more expensive cars on the track. That's what I care about. ;)

OMG you'll love this car then. It has a little more than minimal low end torque for commuting so its not that bad to get around town in. And if you like tracking cars, then coilovers / sway bars (and tires of course) do wonders for this car....I easily corner harder than my friend's wrx:*

[IceD out N CALI]

another good thing about the 03 ep is that you can get one pretty cheap these days cuz of the end of the model year sales. i think AHF is giving out 1.9 financing on them if i'm not mistaken

[droideka]

Originally posted by bobdobbs
Don't get me wrong, I love the car. But I think the tires were put on there knowing they would be replaced. Ditto the wheels, but you can get away with just beefier rubber. I think it's a great daily driver, which is why I bought it, but I find driving it in stock form unsatisfying, as I think someone who owns a 350Z would. Fortunately it's cheap enough that you can customize it to your liking and still have less into it than an SVT Focus. If you aren't interested in customizing, the SVT Focus is already done.

If it's not as sloppy as a standard Civic, then I'll be happy. I don't need the Si to be satisfying. I need better gas mileage (I average 16-17 in the Z) and I need a car that doesn't chew through $1K worth of tires every 5-7K miles.

I figure a set of 205/55/15 RE730s or comparable tire would change the Si considerably, no?

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by droideka

I figure a set of 205/55/15 RE730s or comparable tire would change the Si considerably, no?

Sure they would. You should drive the car. In my opinion, springs and tires are mandatory. Coilovers are better and are worth the extra cost.

Figure about $16K for the car and another $1500 on suspension/tires and you're still less than the price of an SVT and you wouldn't have to look at the blue oval every day.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
i think AHF is giving out 1.9 financing on them if i'm not mistaken

Yup, that's right. I just got that deal. Paid $16.4 for the car, with $2000 down and 1.9%, my payments are about $280 per month, 60 months. That's a lotta car for notta lotta money.

[STP03BlueSI]

The Si is a very good daily driver. I drive it about 25-30 miles a day. I love the looks i get in it also..esp from the ladies.:angel:

[IceD out N CALI]

Originally posted by bobdobbs


Yup, that's right. I just got that deal. Paid $16.4 for the car, with $2000 down and 1.9%, my payments are about $280 per month, 60 months. That's a lotta car for notta lotta money.

nice deal-good for you:)

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by IceD out N CALI


nice deal-good for you:)

Yeah, not too shabby. For a comparison, that Celica GT-S I was considering would have been about $360 per month, with $7000 down! Not worth it. I can think of better ways to spend that $5000 and $80 per month.

[FailureToStop]

Yah and the GTS has a lot higher insurance premium.

[blueiedgod]

Originally posted by Si-Sissy-PA
I beg to differ -

It depends on a few things though.

Traffic, mainly.

I spent the weekend in Long Island, NY -- and this car is annoying to drive in traffic when you have all kinds of torque under there, but you can't use it -- and you get tired quick of having a manual in the city anyway.

I love the car for my daily drive, no traffic - and I can cruise.

it's got everything I wanted in a car... sunroof, cruise, and it's fast enough to always put a smile on my face.

Fun to mod down the road too, but mine's stock aside from an Injen CAI.

I think this is the best car to drive in traffic. The first gear is so low that you can easily do a 5 mph crawl in Long Island Traffic. Unless you are one of those who has to be on the bumper of the car infront. If you keep your pace, it is a very nice traffic crawler. I barely take it out of 1st. I just keep playing with the throttle.

I do have beef with Honda quality, this is 5th or 6th Honda in my life. This is by far the worst quality. I had it for 8 months now, and it has been to the dealership 3-4 times and ready to go again. Little things, and the oil consumption are the problems in this car. I got it at a very good price ($14,500, $15,500 OTD) So, bang per buck is really great, but I wish Honda had better QC at Swindon, UK plant.

[StrangeShadow]

SI = great daily driver + fun to drive

[BarracksSi]

To me, "good daily driver" = Honda hatchback. Drive it, I think you'll like it (then again, I almost bought one without driving any Si's at all!).

Mileage might not reach the EPA estimate depending on how you drive it. But, it's the right size to take on a commute, it's fun enough to drive, the A/C works, the seats are great, and the stereo sounds decent enough even if it's not that loud.

Heck of a car. I'm not jealous of anyone else.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by blueiedgod

I got it at a very good price ($14,500, $15,500 OTD)

How did you manage to get that deal? That's $5000 below MSRP!

[blueiedgod]

Originally posted by bobdobbs


How did you manage to get that deal? That's $5000 below MSRP!


Bought a 2002 on January 25th 2003. Basic negotiations skills, it was a one year old car. I can live with that.

[IceD out N CALI]

Originally posted by blueiedgod



Bought a 2002 on January 25th 2003. Basic negotiations skills, it was a one year old car. I can live with that.

yup! and they still might have some leftover 02's now. If that is the case you should be able to get a really good deal on those

[droideka]

UPDATE

So, I went and drove it tonight. NICE! The new I-VTEC gives it a much flatter torque curve and makes for an EASY commuter. I could toddle through intersections in 3rd at 1800 rpm no problem. You can't do that in a standard Civic, but you owners already know that. GREAT seats and a BIG hatch made for a compelling overall package.

Two nitpicks I have:

1. I've got LOOONG legs. Sitting back far enough so that my knees are not slamming into the dash makes me reach for the wheel. Why can't Honda put a telescoping wheel in all cars like VW? :mad:

2. I lied about not having to change anything. Needs wider rubber. 205s or 215s in a REAL tire, not those all-seasons should alter the handling significantly

I offered $16K + TT&L on an '03. They wanted $17500, ~$300 under invoice. It didn't seem to matter that this would have been the FIFTH Honda I've purchased from this dealer, and the THIRD in 18 months. I didn't budge on the price and told them to let me know when we could make it happen.

As a side note, on the way out to test-drive, my wife and I were discussing the car. "I just want to throw one thing out there." she says. "I don't want to this to become your next Ricer project." WHAT? "You heard me. I don't want to see a shitload of boxes showing up at the front door." *whiny voice* "'Oh, man. I need this and this and that.'"

I couldn't defend myself because I was laughing so hard. "I don't rice up my cars!" "Whatever. There's a fine line between an upgrade and Rice."

So 0WN3D.

[Acidburn]

Originally posted by droideka


I do like it. A lot of people hate the Z, but I don't give a shit. I punish weak drivers in much more expensive cars on the track. That's what I care about. ;)

Ah, another Z driver. What model do you have? I bought an Si for my daily, I only have like 3K miles on my Z.

[Acidburn]

Originally posted by droideka


I do like it. A lot of people hate the Z, but I don't give a shit. I punish weak drivers in much more expensive cars on the track. That's what I care about. ;)

[droideka]

Originally posted by Acidburn


Ah, another Z driver. What model do you have? I bought an Si for my daily, I only have like 3K miles on my Z.

Click on the link in my sig. It's a 6MT Touring with some mods. ;)

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by droideka I've got LOOONG legs. Sitting back far enough so that my knees are not slamming into the dash makes me reach for the wheel.

That's common in some European cars, mostly Italian. I like the arms-straight-out driving position, or, at least I'm used to it. ;)



2. I lied about not having to change anything. Needs wider rubber.


Toldja. You'll want to lower it, too. Believe me. Just factor it into the price.



I offered $16K + TT&L on an '03. They wanted $17500, ~$300 under invoice.


Go to carsdirect.com and configure a Civic Si. It should come out to $16,471. Print that off and take it to the dealer and ask them to match the price. If they don't, buy it from carsdirect. You'll want to do this soon because Honda has 1.9% financing until the end of the month. Maybe they'll extend the deal. Maybe they won't.

Re: your wife. The Si seems to have a very high WAF (that's Wife Acceptance Factor for all you single guys). Considering it's price, it's easy to convince Her it makes more sense to buy it and add a few mods than buy a more expensive car. Of course, you need to dangle the more expensive car in front of Her for full effect. I used the Celica GT-S. My wife quickly agreed to a Civic Si plus a few thousand dollars worth of mods. ;)

[droideka]

Originally posted by bobdobbs
That's common in some European cars, mostly Italian. I like the arms-straight-out driving position, or, at least I'm used to it. ;)


For performance driving, that's bad. Ideally you should be able to rest your wrist on the top of the wheel and still have bend in your arm. That's the test for making sure you're close enough to the wheel at an HPDE. Being far way from the wheel doesn't work for 9 and 3 positions and crossing over in tight turns.


Originally posted by bobdobbs
Re: your wife. The Si seems to have a very high WAF (that's Wife Acceptance Factor for all you single guys). Considering it's price, it's easy to convince Her it makes more sense to buy it and add a few mods than buy a more expensive car. Of course, you need to dangle the more expensive car in front of Her for full effect. I used the Celica GT-S. My wife quickly agreed to a Civic Si plus a few thousand dollars worth of mods. ;)

Don't forget I'm keeping the Z. I don't like the idea of spending Z mod money on the Si.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by droideka
For performance driving, that's bad.

<shrug> Ever driven a Ferrari 308 GTS? Or an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider? Or a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe? Same driving postion, and it's not hard to drive those cars fast. ;)


Don't forget I'm keeping the Z. I don't like the idea of spending Z mod money on the Si.

Like I said, the SVT Focus is done. An EP3 with springs and tires would be a heluva lot less, though.

Take the wife for a ride in the SVT and show her the price. Work out the difference in payments (remember the 1.9% on the Si). She'll be happy with the Si plus springs and tires.

[droideka]

Originally posted by bobdobbs

<shrug> Ever driven a Ferrari 308 GTS? Or an Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider? Or a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe? Same driving postion, and it's not hard to drive those cars fast. ;)

Ever been on a road course? Ever attended a race? You simply do not drive with your arms locked. That's the driving reality for me in the Si.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by droideka

You simply do not drive with your arms locked. That's the driving reality for me in the Si.

Then don't buy the Si. That's what I told you in the first place. I don't need to you to like it for me to like it.

[MPBSi]

Originally posted by droideka
UPDATE

So, I went and drove it tonight. NICE!

Glad you liked it (and didn't let the AWOT boys turn you away). I'm lucky enough to fit the car just fine, but there is a definite lack of adjustablity for driver positioning compared to some other new cars out there. It would suck to buy a car you can't get comfortable in, so good luck.

[BarracksSi]

driodeka, good to hear you liked the EP. I haven't bothered to plan any upgrades (especially springs, mainly because downtown DC's streets suck ass), but I still dig mine.

As far as arms-out vs. arms-in, I don't care, just as long as someone can drive it OK. It seemed like Hondas generally have that driving position more often than most American cars. The EP fits me a lot like my '86 Si did, too.

If this is a related point, I have trouble fitting comfortably on a Harley -- everything seems too close to me. I fit great on nearly every Japanese bike I've sat upon, though.

I'll chalk it up to cultural differences (NASCAR vs. Formula 1, for example).

Speaking of which, I remember some stories from Road & Track that obliquely related to driving position --

They did a comparison of a then-new Ford GT-sumthin' that was going to run at Le Mans (this was in the late 70's) and, oh doggone it.. a European racer, maybe Italian, that was going to race in the same class. They took both cars to Daytona and opened up the infield road course for the test.

On the infield, they much preferred the down-low, arms & hands forward driving position, feeling that it made for easier quick turns. On the oval, though, they said, "The bolt-upright Ford seating position suddenly made a lot of sense." They felt that the Ford was much easier to drive on big, high-speed turns.

In another story, the author was describing being blasted through the Italian countryside in the new Lamborghini Diablo. He noticed buzzing past stone walls seemingly just feet away, while also seeing the driver shuffle the steering wheel back & forth between his hands -- never crossing his arms.

Personally, I drive both ways -- shuffling, and crossing. I'll probably know better which I prefer to use for racing when I get started in autocross in the near future.

Did I say "PREFER"? Yup, I sure did. I don't think that I'm one to judge what someone does with their hands while they're in the car... ;) :angel:

[droideka]

Originally posted by BarracksSi
Personally, I drive both ways -- shuffling, and crossing. I'll probably know better which I prefer to use for racing when I get started in autocross in the near future.

Did I say "PREFER"? Yup, I sure did. I don't think that I'm one to judge what someone does with their hands while they're in the car... ;) :angel:

Point taken. I'm simply advising what is taught at HPDEs and racing schools. I've got close to 500 miles on the track this season and I too was a shuffler my first time out. On a roadcourse, turn-in is supposed to be one fluid motion with no correction from entry to apex to track-out necessary if you hit the turn-in just right. That doesn't always happen, but it's what is taught from day one.

Autocross is a completely different story as you will be making much, much tighter turns than you would on a roadcourse, unless were talking Monaco of course. ;) Yes, I get up on Sundays for F1. I'm also a huge fan of World-Challenge (GO RTR!) and ALMS. I sure wish the BTCC was as heavily covered as it was years back.