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tony speed
09-03-2003, 07:27 AM
I'm on my way to work when I move out of the way to make sure a bus doesn't hit me and run over one of those stone bumps they put in the road to say "don't come here." I get out of my car and see the outter lip of my front rim ripped off from the wheel like it were the lid on a tin can. The lesson: ssr comps do bend.

BlasTech
09-03-2003, 07:52 AM
Man, Im sorry to hear it. :(

BlackNRedSi
09-03-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by BlasTech
Man, Im sorry to hear it. :(

:(:(:(

tony speed
09-03-2003, 08:54 AM
yeah :( :( .... i'm currently trying to decide whether to buy a replacement or just sell the 3 and buy some volks. i seem to have a road hazard problem.

silver ep
09-03-2003, 09:54 AM
I'd just get some Volks. :)

02SilverSiHB
09-03-2003, 10:34 AM
yeah, this isn't the first time I've heard of these rims bending :( sorry man

beansbear
09-03-2003, 10:49 AM
sorry to say this but the SSR forging process just isnt as good as a real forged rim. I have seen many SSR rims bend in the past.

I say go get a set of Volks... pricey but you get what you pay for.

I also recall that SSR has some sort of warranty repair? I could be wrong.. contact your dealer or tire rack.

KeNnYtAkEr
09-03-2003, 11:30 AM
Bummer 5-zigens aren't good either. incase u choose there rims...

tony speed
09-03-2003, 01:16 PM
well, i called tire rack and they said that there is no road hazard warranty with my rims and that i have to buy a new one.... so i guess i'll be selling the rest of the rims on ebay or something. just ordered my volk ce28ns. They should be here in about 3 weeks.

Now I'm wondering what would have happened to my wheel if they were cast. Personally, I think nothing. In any case, ssr type-cs aren't worth your time in my opinion. They look good until you run over anything.

SiMPLE_SiMON
09-03-2003, 02:26 PM
Sorry to hear about it. Definetely stay away from the SSR Type-C (Comps) wheels. They bend like CRAZY. TireRack has actually had to give a number of people free replacement SSRs since they bent so quickly. The SSF process isn't as strong as true forging and SSR's quality control leaves a lot to be desired.

You'll love your new CE28Ns though. They'll be lighter and much stronger than your old SSRs.

Blackapino85
09-03-2003, 03:03 PM
if u put them up for sale, i'll take a look. i like the ssr's.

02TafWhtSi
09-03-2003, 03:13 PM
yikes! sorry to hear that man :(

bobdobbs
09-03-2003, 03:30 PM
What kind of deal did you get on the Volks?

chunky
09-03-2003, 10:21 PM
why all the knocking on ssr?

volks bend just as easily. in fact, almost any wheel that runs over one of those stone bumps is gonna sustain damage.

that's why if you get bigger wheels with less rubber to isolate them from impact, you should strongly consider a 2pc wheel. If i ever buy 16" wheels or larger, I'll be getting a 2pc wheel for this very reason.

As it stand with 15" wheels and 225/50/15 tires, i've run over some NASTY potholes at highway speed and no damage whatsoever to the wheel.

15's are where it's at.

beansbear
09-03-2003, 11:44 PM
i beg to differ...

volks do not bend as easily as the ssr comps do. i have heard, read and seen many ssr comps bent. SSF process isnt nearly as strong as the true forged process that volk has which has a tollerances triple that of JWL testing standards. Volks are the rims of choice for those 1200 hp Skylines in Japan.

i have yet to read of anyone bending a true volk racing rim. i say true because the Gram lights dont count.

tony speed
09-04-2003, 12:06 AM
i did a search online and found one case of a bent volk rim and it was a second-hand story (te37)without any details whatsoever. If you do a search for bent ssr comps you'll find whole webpages dedicated to people who have bent them with pictures and rantings. Too bad I found this out after I bought them. In any case, I'll be driving a bit more stright-line conservativly from now on.

i got the volks (17x17.5) for 2150 with kumhos shipped which is just about what I paid for the ssrs. I'll post the remaining rims for about $1100 shipped when I get the volks.

CivicHB
09-04-2003, 05:39 AM
Volks do bend. I had a friend with 16in te37 with a bend so bad that around the lip and tire area that it leaked air slowly. Plus on page 170 in the OCT SCC ( yeah I know but...) they say that forged wheels are stronger and lighter but they deform under load so they use cast enkei wheels.

SiMPLE_SiMON
09-04-2003, 06:51 AM
Shows how much SCC knows. Stronger = stronger. SCC = too cheap to buy real wheels so they get free cast ones from Enkei.

Volks are MUCH stronger than SSRs because they use a different forging process. Desmond uses it as well. The TE37s and the RegaMasters are the strongest wheels, pound for pound, that you can buy.

chunky
09-04-2003, 07:13 AM
a lot of it also has to do with the construction of the lip and how it ataches to the spokes.

but i garantee a volk wheel would NOT come out unscathed from bumping one of those little road pimples. ESP for a 17"

and dude! if you were going for a 17", why not the gt-n? they're a 2pc wheel and look SICK on the ep3.

and tony, come out to the varsity tonight, we're gonna be hanging out there again. I'd like to take a look at the rim.

tony speed
09-04-2003, 07:27 AM
Can't make it out to the varsity tonight. I usually have stuff to do on thrusdays. But thank you for the suggestion! I went back and looked at the volk page and I decided to get GT-7s instead. How the heck did I miss those? They're 2 piece so the whole rim doesn't have to go.

chunky
09-04-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by tony speed
Can't make it out to the varsity tonight. I usually have stuff to do on thrusdays. But thank you for the suggestion! I went back and looked at the volk page and I decided to get GT-7s instead. How the heck did I miss those? They're 2 piece so the whole rim doesn't have to go.

too bad you couldn't ocme out. only 3 ep folks tonight, me, the guy who I can never remember his name, drives the euro gold one on neuspeed race, and kahtyrinaofnasdpfn fuck, kathryn.

and GOOD CHOICE on the 2pc wheel. you won't regret that decision.

tony speed
09-05-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by chunky

and kahtyrinaofnasdpfn fuck, kathryn.


hahahahaha. kathryn was there? she's that bad in person huh? too much carbon fibre for ya?

chunky
09-05-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by tony speed


hahahahaha. kathryn was there? she's that bad in person huh? too much carbon fibre for ya?

no dude, she's really nice. Her car looks nice - I can appreciate all the details that go into a show car, not really my thing so I had to give her some grief about it. She's put a lot of work into the car obviously so I have to respect that.

I just couldn't spell for a bit, and yes, there is a lot of carbon fiber on her car.

tkm
09-18-2003, 10:58 AM
I loved how uninformed several of you guys are. Do you even know what the forging process SSR uses is? Obviously not.

SSF = Semi-solid forging. This does not mean they are only 'semi-forged'. How the hell would you somewhat forge a wheel? I'd love to hear that explanation.

Semi-solid forging is when you take a wheel, that is in a semi-solid state, and then forge from there. This process is just as good as the process that every other forged wheel uses.

Volks bend. Spoons bend. Racing Harts bend. SSRs bend. All of them do. If tirerack sold Volks there would be a webpage about how the volks bend.

This is why you don't put a 17" forged wheel on a street car with a rubber-band tire. It's just stoopid because a pothole sooner or later is going to bend the lightweight wheel.

Common sense should be your first brain function when buying a wheel, not how blingin a expensive wheel will look on the car.

tony speed
09-18-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by tkm
I loved how uninformed several of you guys are. Do you even know what the forging process SSR uses is? Obviously not.

SSF = Semi-solid forging. This does not mean they are only 'semi-forged'. How the hell would you somewhat forge a wheel? I'd love to hear that explanation.

Semi-solid forging is when you take a wheel, that is in a semi-solid state, and then forge from there. This process is just as good as the process that every other forged wheel uses.

Volks bend. Spoons bend. Racing Harts bend. SSRs bend. All of them do. If tirerack sold Volks there would be a webpage about how the volks bend.

This is why you don't put a 17" forged wheel on a street car with a rubber-band tire. It's just stoopid because a pothole sooner or later is going to bend the lightweight wheel.

Common sense should be your first brain function when buying a wheel, not how blingin a expensive wheel will look on the car.

before i start, let me say that my rims tore, not bent, they tore like tissue paper. Secondly, my tires was fairly high, higher than what i have now. ....

great now take this knowledge and go semi-solid forge yourself some tact and/or some new people to talk to. don't insult me or fellow hatch owners.

tkm
09-18-2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by tony speed


before i start, let me say that my rims tore, not bent, they tore like tissue paper. Secondly, my tires was fairly high, higher than what i have now. ....

great now take this knowledge and go semi-solid forge yourself some tact and/or some new people to talk to. don't insult me or fellow hatch owners.

From the description of your accident, any wheel would have done the same thing.

Don't blame the SSRs. Nothing would have survived. I didn't pose my responce toward you, but there are *a lot* of folks who say stuff about something that they have no idea about. I've owned three different sets (still have 2) of SSR Comps. No problems with any of them at all.

SiMPLE_SiMON
09-18-2003, 12:10 PM
tkm has no idea what he's talking about. Semi-solid forging is not as strong as hot or cold forging (not that tkm would know anything about it). It was developed at MIT and licensed by Alcoa originally. SSR has been using it for a while now. It's benefit is to the manufacturer because less metal is wasted in the process, though the resultant parts are not as strong as traditional forged parts. End of lesson.

tony speed
09-18-2003, 12:39 PM
ok, well, today after i leave work i'm gonna run into the same stone at 35 mph and see if it happens again.....not. :D

tkm
09-18-2003, 12:43 PM
Sigh, let's look at this a little further.

Semi-Solid forging allows the properties of traditional forging but at a lower cost to the manufacturer. That's how you can buy 4 SSRs a few hundred dollars cheaper than something like a Volk.

But how does this strike you: The Advans that so many people rave about that are just as light as a Volk are *cast* wheels. And I've seen plenty of Skylines and other 600hp cars on those.

I have not seen any metal fatigue tests done on SSR vs Volk vs Rota or anything. But from personal experience, I've seen a lot of bent/screwed up wheels. And calling a SSR junk is not right because they are far from it. As strong as a 16lb oem cast wheel they are not, but then again I wouldn't consider having any 17"+ forged wheel as my daily driver wheel because there are just too many things that can happen on public roads.

And a search on the net will yield you all that you want to know about the SSF process.

SiMPLE_SiMON
09-18-2003, 12:58 PM
Sounds like you're the one who needs to do a few searches and learn what you're talking about. Your original post stated that the SSF process was just as strong as traditional forging. Please back that up or shut the f*ck up.

No one mentioned Advans or anything else. SSRs are not as strong as Volks, pound for pound, because they are made with an inferior manufacturing method.

tkm
09-18-2003, 01:18 PM
You haven't provided anything concrete to your side as well.

And the SSRs aren't as light as a similar Volk, Desmond or Racing Hart. SSR's usually use a little more material if you haven't noticed.

So again, so me the formulae that determines weight/strength/material against a particular casting/forging method and I'll listen.

SiMPLE_SiMON
09-18-2003, 01:22 PM
?? You really are clueless aren't you. Check the weights of the SSR Type-C and the Racing Hart CP-035R and get back to me. They are both lighter than TE37s of the same size. They're also lighter than RegaMasters.

FYI, Racing Harts are made using the SSF process as well. You missed that one in your last post.

Tenacious G
09-18-2003, 01:27 PM
FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT


c'mon guys, let's not turn a discussion about wheels and weight and wheel strength into a pissing contest. agree to disagree and move on.

:D

tony speed
09-18-2003, 01:34 PM
Alright, so i did some research, and there are claims that SSF alloys have the same mechanical properties of traditionally forged. However, I also came across certain statements that led me to conclude that achieving consistent quality is hard because of the limitations of the current SSF process. The end product's quality largely depends on the sophistication of the SSF process. for example:

"It should be noted, that actual problems exist in the
reproducibility of the quality. The oxide skin on the
surface of the billet cannot so far be removed due to the
process technique and the geometry of the produced parts,
and thus the oxides could be entrapped inside the part. If it
is possible to eliminate the oxides similar to the
thixocasting process, the good properties can be reached
reproducibly." www.rwth-aachen.de/sfb289/Ww/pdf/pub_ibf_metec99.pdf
THIXOFORGING OF ALUMINIUM ALLOYS

The bottom line is that quality control seems hard as heck.

I also found a book online, but it's $150 to download :( It compares forging vs. SSF. http://www.metsoc.org/library/info/1-894475-11-9.asp
BOOK TITLE: Materials in the Automotive Industry
If anyone goes to a tech school, check for it in your library.

the section:
SEMI-SOLID FORMING
Comparison of Solid and Semi-Solid Forging
H.J. McQueen and E. Evangelista 189
Semi-solid Processing of Al and Mg Alloys
M.T. Shehata, E.J. Zoqui, V. Kao
and E. Essadiqi 207

SiMPLE_SiMON
09-18-2003, 02:12 PM
That's correct. Quality control is much harder with the SSF process. That's why some SSRs are pure garbage. TireRack has actually had to give customers free wheels because some people had all four wheels bend the same day that they got them. That certainly isn't the norm, but it does happen.

SSF's advantage is cost savings for the manufacturer. It's not cost-effective to put enough money into SSF to make it as strong as regular forging. What you get is a wheel that's as light as a traditional forged wheel that's much stronger than a cast wheel of the same weight. It won't be quite as strong as a traditional forged wheel at the same weight though.

Volks and Desmonds are the two strongest, lightest, most readily available, forged makes on the market. They each make cast wheels as well.

SSF is better than cast, though more costly. It's also not quite as good as traditional forging, but it's also not as expensive. It's a trade-off.

Anyone who says that the Type-Cs are as strong as TE37s or RegaMasters doesn't have the slightest idea what they're talking about.

tkm
09-18-2003, 06:32 PM
The ce28's are lighter than the SSR C's and so are the Desmond twins. And yes, I've seen all three bent. Personally. And yes, I have personally owned all three. Two of them are in my garage right now. I'm not trying to brag, but I have first-hand experience with all of the wheels we have been talking about, except the Racing Harts.

But anyways, so far everything you have said is basically the same thing I have said. We agree on how the SSF process works. But what you seem to have missed is that 80% of the people in this thread missed the boat entirely. Before any of us posted what/how the SSF was, no one really knew (which I why I spoke up). My main point is that I personally don't feel the SSR's are junk like you seem to. You are going a long way to discount the wheels, which just doesn't make a lot of sense.

A lot of pro racing teams use SSRs. Look no further than world challenge. And I can tell you where Realtime sends their SSRs off to get them fixed, because I was personally at the shop when they received a 17" SSR in that day. I asked how many they receive for fixing (note that I said fixing the wheels--they just don't go and buy more) and he said surprising little--maybe a few a season. And he said they were one of the strongest wheels he has worked on besides the big heavy cast models. And this guy fixes wheels from all across america. He fixed a Desmond for me when I had a slight off-road excursion.

So, go ahead and spill your rhetoric all over this thread, but so far I have seen nothing from you backing up your claims. Have you even owned or raced on any of the wheels we are talking about? Or, are you just repeating a few things that you've read on the net?

JSIR
09-18-2003, 07:16 PM
there is a lot to be said for what chunky has mentioned, a lot of rims can be damaged if running short sidewalls. Any experienced tire person can testify to that. A short sidewall can transmit a lot of force to a rim, and rims are particularly weak on their back side, which leads to bends or worse. Lastly, like many have said its hard to imagine many aftermarket wheels surviving a direct impact with a concrete curb or abuttment.

SiMPLE_SiMON
09-18-2003, 11:26 PM
Blah, blah, blah. Still nothing to back up your claim of SSRs being as strong as Volks at a given weight.

Race teams use wheels because they get them for free. What racer would choose SSRs over Volks or Desmonds, given that they are all free?

Bottom line is that TireRack has had to give out a number of SSRs due to bending that was so premature and so severe that they had no other recourse.

gabbman
09-18-2003, 11:48 PM
part of the problem is everyone seems to get good wheels with cheap tires. Better brands of tires offer side wall protection and you can put your body weight on them and not even make an dent. I got goodyear eagle f1 and 17 adr dv-8 and i hit some big potholes no damage:p

tony speed
09-19-2003, 08:12 AM
tkm: where do they send ssrs to get them repaired? you think they can repair a tear?

secondly, anyone think i should change my kumho ecstas for other wheels that will offer more side wall protection? If so, what tires would offer more sidewall protection? My last tires were pirelli 215/45 17 and they still allowed my rim to bend.

Your help would be appreciated.

tkm
09-19-2003, 10:33 AM
I don't know if they add metal back to a wheel, but you might want to call them to see if anything can be done. My guess is a new wheel would be in order.

Achbach Auto Industries

614-890-5099


And look for any tire that has the rim protector lip on it. The Azenis do and I think the S03 and a few other Bridgestone models. Call tirerack as they should be able to help you.

The sidewall is so soft on the old Kumhos. I hated those tires personally.



Originally posted by tony speed
tkm: where do they send ssrs to get them repaired? you think they can repair a tear?

secondly, anyone think i should change my kumho ecstas for other wheels that will offer more side wall protection? If so, what tires would offer more sidewall protection? My last tires were pirelli 215/45 17 and they still allowed my rim to bend.

Your help would be appreciated.

VividDreams
04-02-2004, 01:20 PM
dont mean to scratch open this wound, but i have a few questions....

my current wheels, 17" Mille Miglia Evo5 are 23.5lbs and are gravity cast. they have 215/45-17 Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's on them. ive never had any problems with them bending or anything, the only things ive had happen are a few curb scrapes from parallel parking(those "rim protectors" are just a myth)

anyway, are you guys saying that a 11.5lb SSR Competition would be WEAKER than my "lead brick" 23.5lb Evo5's?

also, the second wheel i was considering is the Kosei K-1 Racing

they are 16x7.5, weigh 15lbs, and are gravity cast, like my mille's

since the Kosei's are lighter than the Mille's but are made with the same process, is it safe to assume that they will bend "more easily" than the SSR's?

thanks!

tony speed
04-02-2004, 03:48 PM
hehe. no. they won't necessarily be weaker. just don't hit them from the side. They are bound to break.

FCobra94
04-02-2004, 09:06 PM
Sorry to hear about your wheels bending man :(

What I'm wondering is, how do Rota's stack up to say, the Volk wheels? I'm strongly thinking about going w/ a set of 16" C8's w/ 205/50/16 tires.

I have 255/45/17 on the Mustang and no problems yet on Cobra R rims, so I'm assuming the roads around here aren't that bad :)

VividDreams
04-03-2004, 12:27 AM
i envy you man, ive always wanted a Mustang, my friends couldnt believe i got a Honda, let alone 2!!

2k2_nbp_egg
04-03-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by FCobra94
Sorry to hear about your wheels bending man :(

What I'm wondering is, how do Rota's stack up to say, the Volk wheels? I'm strongly thinking about going w/ a set of 16" C8's w/ 205/50/16 tires.

I have 255/45/17 on the Mustang and no problems yet on Cobra R rims, so I'm assuming the roads around here aren't that bad :)

Get em'...they not only look badass'd on the car but they hold up very well....the fact they're relatively light and cheap is just an added bonus :)

p.s. go w/ the 215 ;)

zum_zum
04-03-2004, 08:12 PM
http://www.geoffdavis.com/pics/Flamage/retarded.jpg

i have the ssr comps. never a problem.

i am a racer (scca), ssr is a very popular wheels.

tony speed
04-04-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by FCobra94
Sorry to hear about your wheels bending man :(

What I'm wondering is, how do Rota's stack up to say, the Volk wheels? I'm strongly thinking about going w/ a set of 16" C8's w/ 205/50/16 tires.

I have 255/45/17 on the Mustang and no problems yet on Cobra R rims, so I'm assuming the roads around here aren't that bad :)

you can't really compare rotas to volks. volk is one of the best japanese wheels you can get that are used in professional racing. SSRs are also used in professional racing as well, but volks are a step above in overall quality. most volk wheels are forged and are fairly to very light. they are also very expensive.

yomamaInMySi
04-04-2004, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by zum_zum
http://www.geoffdavis.com/pics/Flamage/retarded.jpg

i have the ssr comps. never a problem.

i am a racer (scca), ssr is a very popular wheels.

Yes, with the only difference that tracks (pave part of the track, not the grassy part or offtrack scursions) usually don't have speed bumps or potholes the size of moon craters.

yomamaInMySi
04-04-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by tony speed
you can't really compare rotas to volks. volk is one of the best japanese wheels you can get that are used in professional racing. SSRs are also used in professional racing as well, but volks are a step above in overall quality. most volk wheels are forged and are fairly to very light. they are also very expensive.

I agree and must add that my to my understanding SSR are partially forged (whatever that means) and Volks are fully forged wheels.

yomamaInMySi
04-04-2004, 10:46 AM
That's another reason why I stick with inexpensive but good looking wheels for the road. Forged wheels are strong but are not meant or designed to take the kind of punishment our roads have to offer.

tony speed
04-05-2004, 12:27 PM
the only reason to not used forged wheels on the road are cuase they're expensive. if you're using cast wheels on the road, they'll get damaged more quickly than a forged wheel ever will.

zum_zum
04-05-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by yomamaInMySi
Yes, with the only difference that tracks (pave part of the track, not the grassy part or offtrack scursions) usually don't have speed bumps or potholes the size of moon craters.

then you have no idea what it's like to race wheel to wheel on a track...corner strips, contact, running over debris. it hits just as hard as a pothole.

VividDreams
04-07-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by zum_zum
then you have no idea what it's like to race wheel to wheel on a track...corner strips, contact, running over debris. it hits just as hard as a pothole.


he he,to quote yourself....

lol, j/p

Siman
04-08-2004, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by chunky
why all the knocking on ssr?

volks bend just as easily. in fact, almost any wheel that runs over one of those stone bumps is gonna sustain damage.

that's why if you get bigger wheels with less rubber to isolate them from impact, you should strongly consider a 2pc wheel. If i ever buy 16" wheels or larger, I'll be getting a 2pc wheel for this very reason.

As it stand with 15" wheels and 225/50/15 tires, i've run over some NASTY potholes at highway speed and no damage whatsoever to the wheel.

15's are where it's at.

I am 100% with you on that one...I love my 15" BBS....I am going to upgrade this sommer to some 16" ROTA's though. with Falken azenis rubber for spirited driving:D

ViViDPeArL
04-08-2004, 10:26 AM
volk wheels are just as bad...their forged mag.