Downshifting question

[sonic imperial]

I've been driving a stick for years but for some reason, and maybe it's just me, but when I downshift in this car I'm having a hard time getting it to feel smooth. Especially 2nd gear, even when letting the clutch out slow I still get little "whop" forward so-to-speak as soon as the gear engages, even if the rpms aren't that high. It's not every time but it does happen often. I wish I could get it to be smoother, giving it more gas doesn't seem to help. Does anyone experience perfectly smooth downshifts, any tips on what I'm doing wrong?

[ssvr6]

I'm having similar issues. The gears on this car are really short, I wonder if that has something to do with it.


Steve

[JayDMep]

same thing happens to me sometime, I feel hella dumb when there is other ppl in the car!

[silver ep]

Ive read downshifting is bad for the car so I dont downshift any more. But who knows :confused:

[sonic imperial]

silver ep, what I'm referring too is when you slow down for a stop light or traffic and then it changes to green before a complete stop and you have to downshift from say 4th or 5th to 2nd in order to accelerate again. Sometimes I try 3rd which is much smoother but often times it's too high a gear which makes it hard to get up to speed at first.

[silver ep]

Oh ok Im sorry I misunderstood. You know I have the same problem, I just give a little more gas to smooth it out like you do

[ApexinSi]

Letting your clutch out slow is putting more wear on your clutch. The proper way to go from 4th or 5th to 2nd is to..

1]Clutch Petal In,
2]Neutral(pull it out of gear),
3]Clutch Petal Out,
4]Match RPMs(tap the throttle to where the RPMs will be when in 2nd)
5]Clutch Petal In,
6]Shift into 2nd,
7]Clutch Petal Out & Throttle.


Steps 4-7 must be done quickly and if done properly you should get a nice smooth downshift with good acceleration....and the more you do step 4 the quicker you can get out of the hole. :D

[sonic imperial]

Thanks, I'll try that on my way home from work today. It may take a little practice but I'll give it a shot.

[SLOlife]

There is no need for steps 2 and 3. Little clip from vtec.net (http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=3247)

"Double-clutching is a lost art, pretty much replaced by heel and toe and modern technology. Synchros have obviated the need except when your gearbox is going on you, or in some of the formula cars"

[fishboy]

HHHHEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLZZZZIIIIIITTTTTOOOOOOEEEEEEE! :)

[ULTRAMANIA]

yup, apex is right.. you gotta rev match. not so much when the RPMs are already low, but especially when the RPMs are higher... like downshifting from 5th to maybe like 3rd..

[HondaMan]

Practice Practice...hehe! I don't have any probelms with down shifting smoothly (95% of the time that is). ;)

[ApexinSi]

Originally posted by SLOlife
There is no need for steps 2 and 3. Little clip from vtec.net (http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-article?article_id=3247)

"Double-clutching is a lost art, pretty much replaced by heel and toe and modern technology. Synchros have obviated the need except when your gearbox is going on you, or in some of the formula cars"

SLOlife anytime the clutch petal is in use is it wearing down your clutch...by pressing the gas while the clutch petal is in, your putting more wear on your clutch.

[SLOlife]

Originally posted by ApexinSi


SLOlife anytime the clutch petal is in use is it wearing down your clutch...by pressing the gas while the clutch petal is in, your putting more wear on your clutch.

Ummm no. So when in traffic or at a stoplight and I have the clutch in, you say I am using the clutch up. Shoot I should have replaced my 200k mile nissan's clutch more than once, cause I spend all day with the clutch in. Will it wear my clutch, no, will it put stress on the throw-out bearing yes!

When the clutch pedal is in there is no contact between the flywheel and clutch, hence you can not wear the clutch out by pressing the gas.

From howstuffworks.com;

"When the clutch pedal is pressed, a cable or hydraulic piston pushes on the release fork, which presses the throw-out bearing against the middle of the diaphragm spring. As the middle of the diaphragm spring is pushed in, a series of pins near the outside of the spring causes the spring to pull the pressure plate away from the clutch disc (see below). This releases the clutch from the spinning engine"

look at this interactive picture clutch (http://www.howstuffworks.com/clutch2.htm)

And I can quote again "Synchros have obviated the need except when your gearbox is going on you, or in some of the formula cars"

[ApexinSi]

haha, i knew something like that was comming... flame me on....then don't complain when honda won't warrenty your tranny

I guess all those things them guys at the race track told me was a lie :( these guys were driving porsches, ferraris and BMW's

[SLOlife]

Originally posted by ULTRAMANIA
you gotta rev match.

That is the key to a good downshift, or upshift for that matter.

[SLOlife]

Originally posted by ApexinSi
haha, i knew something like that was comming... flame me on....then don't complain when honda won't warrenty your tranny

Really, how does it wear the clutch down then? Or did you not check the website. How many miles have you put on your clutch?

[ApexinSi]

geesh man, a guy asks about downshifting from 4th or 5th to 2nd...thats skipping a whole gear. So i put in my info and all you do is flame me....get a life

[ApexinSi]

back your mom up

telling me all that autocrossing school has taught me is bullshit and i should follow your rules?

[ApexinSi]

http://elite.virtualave.net/timeline.jpg

[SLOlife]

Originally posted by ApexinSi
back your mom up

telling me all that autocrossing school has taught me is bullshit and i should follow your rules?

Really autocrossing school told you how a clutch works?

[ApexinSi]

ok time to stop post whoring...want me to bend over and kiss your feet? Is that what you want to hear?....you win, you are gods gift to all autocrossers all bow down to SLOlife! Hail SLOlife!

Hip Hip HURRAY! Hip Hip HURRAY!!....Hip Hip HURRAY!!!

http://jankertown.com/mbpics/speedtest.jpg

[sonic imperial]

Originally posted by ApexinSi
geesh man, a guy asks about downshifting from 4th or 5th to 2nd...thats skipping a whole gear. So i put in my info and all you do is flame me....get a life

I'm actually talking about when you have to slow down for someone in front of you, or a yield sign, for example, and you need to shift to 2nd because you slow down to about 10mph. This is after traveling in 5th gear (maybe 4th, depending on the road), so usually I don't downshift to 3rd and then 2nd. I just wait until I need to push the clutch in, put it in 2nd, then speed up. But when I release the clutch at that point is when I get that little jerk for second. Doesn't seem to matter how slow you release the clutch. I am thinking that rev matching has alot to do with it. I'm going to have to practice. My last manual car was a little different, or at least the shift to second seemed alot smoother. Thanks for the comments.

[m0ns00n]

Dude, you can't even spell faggot. Not to mention its a totally unoriginal slur. The timeline was funny. eheh (Slo does seem to be on a soapbox though, I'll give ya that)

But back on topic, I think that even with synchro's, rev matching (and double clutching) can still play a role. If you rev-match with the cluch dis-engaged and the gear in neutral (the middle part of double clutching) you will reduce wear to your synchros.

Want to totally eliminate clutch wear? Don't use it! Time all your shifts exactly and use rev matching. Don't screw up even once though or else you'll get a transmission full of synchro-flakes :)

[ApexinSi]

yeah it's all in good fun. everyone is entitled to their own opinions.. and i've been waiting a while to post those old played out jpegs :D m0ns00n i just noticed that they didn't spell it right...look at the URL i jacked it from somewhere ...
what was i saying...oh yeah...sonic if I were you I would simply put the car in neutral and coast when you know that your going to be slowing down(with your foot off the clutch), good way to save gas....this is a plus in my book since i drive with the gas light on.

[SLOlife]

Originally posted by ApexinSi
and i've been waiting a while to post those old played out jpegs :

Yeah, lucky me,:D

I'm sorry if I may seem to be on a soapbox, but the coment of "by pressing the gas while the clutch petal is in, your putting more wear on your clutch." is totally false.

And I won't use any stupid graphics to diminish his intelligence level

[m0ns00n]

ok, ok...

peace, love and rev matching baby....

:D

[ApexinSi]

dang i gave up a long time ago and he's still at it .

<---Note what the baby is motioning

[m0ns00n]

hahahahaha

[grooveline]

how hard was it for you to quit the herbage apexinSi?

[66elwood99]

Dosen't matter if you skip a gear downshiftin, it all depends on the speed and revs'. If he's braking to slow he can skip a gear!
Just my two cents worth!

[2K2SilverSi]

this is a little off topic but does anyone notice how jerky the car is when it is reversing at idle with no foot on the gas/clutch? I think this has to do with the low final drive. My other manual cars wernt this jerky idling in reverse

[iR-VTEC2]

I think that most of us will wear out our clutches faster than normal no matter how we drive...........because most of us drive hard. :) No?

[2K2SilverSi]

Originally posted by iR-VTEC2
I think that most of us will wear out our clutches faster than normal no matter how we drive...........because most of us drive hard. :) No?

I agree with that. Hopefully by the time I wear out the clutch they have lightweight flywheels available.

[66elwood99]

Originally posted by iR-VTEC2
I think that most of us will wear out our clutches faster than normal no matter how we drive...........because most of us drive hard. :) No?

I beat the sh*# out of my 90 Civic Hatch and it still has the original clutch with 139,000 miles on it! I hope this one holds up as well!