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JSIR
09-08-2003, 04:54 PM
Well I picked up my Rota Circuit8 wheels today, but I noticed that they did not have hubcentric rings on the wheels. Does anyone know if these wheels use rings ?, I never measured the inside hub opening to compare them to stock, they look similar so I was thinking maybe you dont need rings with these wheels. Perhaps they just fit Honda hubs without the need for rings, much like stock rims. Anyone know for sure ?, it would be appreciated. thanks

BTW, my 16" tire/wheel combo has shed 4-5 lbs per wheel with these rims and tires as compared to 15" stock rims and tires. Not bad at all.

Joey

fishboy
09-08-2003, 04:57 PM
i had 16inch slips and it didn't come with those rings. i actually didn't find out about hubcentrics until i had them on for months. i never got them and my car was fine that whole time. at least that i know of.

rswbrixton
09-08-2003, 05:15 PM
Rota Subzero here in 17 x 7 and +45 offset. No hubcentric rings utilized on install . Wheels are static balanced and rubber spun to find best position with leas amount of balance weights . No shimmy , vibration , pulses etc.

Noticed that these wheels in the 4 x 100 do not have inner hub bore machined out to accept hubcentric rings.


Wheels i have owned from Momo ( arrow 17 x 7.5 ) , and ADR did require hubcentric rings specific to the make of vehicle. Momo and ADR produce the same wheel to fit many many more applications than that of Rota etc thus the vehicle specific rings . Manufactures of wheels that market more to the 4 x 100 and the largest part of the market (Honda - VW ) tend to spec and build from the hub .

dchu
09-08-2003, 05:26 PM
With my Grids I'm using 67->56 mm rings but I don't know if it's really necessary.

JSIR
09-08-2003, 05:29 PM
ah , thanks for the quick replies guys, puts my mind to ease knowing that. I figured they must be made that way, good quality manufacturing for sure. I also noticed that there are no balance weights on these rims as far as I can see, which I found strange, but I guess they are balanced so well from the factory they obviously dont need much or any.


Joey

JSIR
09-08-2003, 05:33 PM
I need to find some good lug nuts now, just using the stock ones for now, anyone know anything about McGard spline drive lugs, I can find those pretty easily, just wonder if they are any good though.


Joey

rswbrixton
09-08-2003, 05:43 PM
McGard Spline drive is an excellent lug nut set . Have used since i picked up my Rotas back in May . The seating portion of the lugs is casted from a different metal from the body of the lug , and is contoured to make the best contact with the rim lug nut hole seat.
The spline drive cut into the lug and and the opposite cut lug key make for a firm and secure wrenching of the nut onto lug. No signs of corrosion , very secure and confident fit , and McGard warranty and lost key replacement make it an easy pick .

JSIR
09-08-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by rswbrixton
McGard Spline drive is an excellent lug nut set . Have used since i picked up my Rotas back in May . The seating portion of the lugs is casted from a different metal from the body of the lug , and is contoured to make the best contact with the rim lug nut hole seat.
The spline drive cut into the lug and and the opposite cut lug key make for a firm and secure wrenching of the nut onto lug. No signs of corrosion , very secure and confident fit , and McGard warranty and lost key replacement make it an easy pick .

thanks for the info, sounds like a good set of lugs, hopefully they are lightweight to match the rims.


One last question with Rotas, does anyone have touch up paint for bronze Rotas, I need to touch up a few small chips, wonder where I could get some paint to match ?

thanks

Joey

blackyEP3
09-08-2003, 05:51 PM
What tires did you go with?

JSIR
09-08-2003, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by blackyEP3
What tires did you go with?

they came with the Khumo 205/40/16's, they are in great shape but done work with the car. Very good handling tire, no sidewall flex at all, cool. So as mentioned these tires are up for sale, I am looking to buy a good 205-50-16 tire. Not sure what brand yet but whatever I can find that is decent, yokes, toyos would be nice.


Joey

rswbrixton
09-08-2003, 05:57 PM
Hell , I have got an answer for that also !!!

I have received a few small chips etc and i have found perhaps the closest colour match to that of the Rota bronze is the Motomaster Exactmatch Auto Paint. The colour is a gold / bronze for late 90's chev/gmc truck . Cant recall the exact model year etc.

The colour code on the paint package,which i believe is also marked in the paint match catalogue and on the packaging , is 84246 3601N .

JSIR
09-08-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by rswbrixton
Hell , I have got an answer for that also !!!

I have received a few small chips etc and i have found perhaps the closest colour match to that of the Rota bronze is the Motomaster Exactmatch Auto Paint. The colour is a gold / bronze for late 90's chev/gmc truck . Cant recall the exact model year etc.

The colour code on the paint package,which i believe is also marked in the paint match catalogue and on the packaging , is 84246 3601N .

Damn, you are da man tonight bro !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, thanks very much, that sounds great. And a canadian tire paint colour to boot, cant get any easier than that. Gonna pick up my lugs and touch up paint at CT for sure. thanks again bud !


Joey

rswbrixton
09-08-2003, 06:10 PM
Not a problem at all brother. Im a picky bugger and abit of a perfectionist , that crappy tire paint match is the most exact of perhaps 4 others i tried. If you have a hard time finding it , i will stop by my local crappy tire and jog my memory by checking out the vehicles paint codes-colours. But the numbers mentioned above should put you on the exact track .

BlasTech
09-08-2003, 06:26 PM
Im not sure if the rotas are bored for hondas, since the road-racing guys at H-T were making a big deal about rota making a new 7" x 15" slipstream that actually is honda-bored. Its one of its "features" and Im sure everyone would say if all the others were for sure.

The only way to know is to measure...I think string would be the easiest way, since rulers can be funky at that scale.

Not having them with rings probably wont matter in daily driving, but it adds a bit of extra assurance (at a very cheap price) if you auto-x.

Congrats on the wheels, good choice! http://ephatch.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

bobdobbs
09-08-2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by JSIR
ah , thanks for the quick replies guys, puts my mind to ease knowing that. I figured they must be made that way, good quality manufacturing for sure. I also noticed that there are no balance weights on these rims as far as I can see, which I found strange, but I guess they are balanced so well from the factory they obviously dont need much or any.

Why is your mind at ease? dchu says he's got hubcentric rings on his wheels. And you don't have them. If there's room for rings, you need the rings. Getting your wheels to mount centered on your car is going to be difficult without them. And if they're not centered -- no matter how well-balanced the wheel is -- they're going to vibrate like mother f-ers.

You need to test fit the rims to your car without tightening them down and see if there's any play between the hub center and the wheel. I.e., place them against the hub and see if there's room to move them up and down or back and forth. If there is -- even just a little -- you need rings.

anjapower
09-08-2003, 06:29 PM
I'm waiting on my 16" slipstreams to come in along with 205/50/16 Yoko avs es 100 tires. Mine are being shipped with rings....

I will let you know how the tires are in that size. They were one of the cheapest/best value for the money tires for me. I think you'll find the same.

On another note, you mind weighing the 16" Circuit 8?

droideka
09-08-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by anjapower
I'm waiting on my 16" slipstreams to come in along with 205/50/16 Yoko avs es 100 tires. Mine are being shipped with rings...

What color did you go with? I like the Steel Grey personally and was looking at those this weekend. I like the GM w/polished lip also, but don't know how that would look on my VBP.

JSIR
09-08-2003, 07:19 PM
I'll take my digital caliper to the rims and hubs tomorrow see if there is any large diff in measurement and compare them to the stock rim measurement. Eyeballing it they looked fairly close, but its hard to tell exactly. thanks again to everyone for the info.

Joey

anjapower
09-08-2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by droideka


What color did you go with? I like the Steel Grey personally and was looking at those this weekend. I like the GM w/polished lip also, but don't know how that would look on my VBP.

I went with the traditional flat black:D Will post pics this weekend.

MrCivic03
09-08-2003, 07:32 PM
i with anj i also want to get 16" flat black slipstreams or even c10 bronze. black on black is hot black on bronze is hot IMO.

JSIR
09-08-2003, 07:40 PM
The Rota Circuit8 rims in 16 inch are 15 lbs, that is about 4 lbs lighter than stock 15 inch rims, you can feel it as soon as you lift them up. Awesome rims IMO.

anjapower
09-08-2003, 07:42 PM
the slips in 16 are 13.5lbs...the yokos in 205/50/16 are 20.4lbs...so I'm looking at 33.9lbs total...

The stock rim/tire combo was weighed at 39.5lbs by B18CxR..so I will be shaving 5.6 lbs per corner...I'm hoping I will feel a difference...other than grip.

JSIR
09-08-2003, 07:47 PM
my wheel/tire combo weighs in 4-5 lbs lighter than the stock setup based on my home scale, but I couldnt really feel any diff on the road in terms of acceleration. I would likely show up on the dyno though.

the slips seem to be a little bit lighter than the c8's I guess. nice.

Joey

MrCivic03
09-08-2003, 07:49 PM
what are both u guys tires of choice bc i want a good tire not to expensive? thanks

JSIR
09-08-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by MrCivic03
what are both u guys tires of choice bc i want a good tire not to expensive? thanks

I love my yoke AVS ES100's, damn good tire for the money.

anjapower
09-08-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by JSIR
my wheel/tire combo weighs in 4-5 lbs lighter than the stock setup based on my home scale, but I couldnt really feel any diff on the road in terms of acceleration. I would likely show up on the dyno though.

the slips seem to be a little bit lighter than the c8's I guess. nice.

Joey

I was hoping it would be noticeable in acceleration but oh well...

Yea I had read that the slips were a little lighter, but I wasn't sure. The c8 is way better looking tho;)

JSIR
09-08-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by anjapower


I was hoping it would be noticeable in acceleration but oh well...

Yea I had read that the slips were a little lighter, but I wasn't sure. The c8 is way better looking tho;)

dropping 5-6 lbs per wheel/tire is equivalent to gaining approx. 2-3 whp , thus it would be difficult to feel on the street, but you should see a small gain on an inertia dyno such as a dynojet. Its still the way to go as heavy wheels suck and rob some power.

foilpan
09-08-2003, 09:24 PM
yeah, i didn't really feel any increase in quickness with my subzeros, just better handling due to the wider rim and stickier avs-es100s.

rota 0WNZ us!

JSIR
09-09-2003, 05:27 PM
hey RSWBrixton, I could not find that Canadian Tire paint colour, I searched several stores. But i ended up getting a paint colour from a 1999 Ford listing at Canadian Tire exactamatch. It is Ash Gold for a 99 Ford, number is 47-9531-2. It seems to be a pretty decent match, works well on small chips I wouldnt paint any large areas with it but its close enough for small chips. I cant believe Ford would actually paint a car the colour of our wheels, but good thing they did , lol..... .

I measured our hubs today and got a measurement of about 56 mm, the Rota wheel opening is about 66mm, so about 10mm diff which is about 5mm per side of maximum movement. I'll check around to see if I can find some rings, but the wheels dont seem to move around all that much even when I force them side to side. I picked up some McGard spline drive lugs, they should do the trick nicely, I like the ring design on the end of the lugs to limit scratching on the indside of the wheel lug hole, nice thought on their part.

damn I hate when they move these posts........

Joey:mad:

bobdobbs
09-09-2003, 06:13 PM
The rings do something even more important than making sure your wheels are lined up: They relieve the vertical force that your lugs are carrying and transfer it to the wheel hub, the way Mr. Honda intended. The lugs aren't made to carry the load of your car. They're are meant to attach the wheel and that's it. Riding on them without locating the wheel on the hub center could cause them to fail due to force being applied where they are the weakest, especially when there's only four of them. That wouldn't be pretty. It would be especially bad if you dented a rim slightly or had a tire go out-of-round. Get them rings.

chunky
09-09-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by bobdobbs
The rings do something even more important than making sure your wheels are lined up: They relieve the vertical force that your lugs are carrying and transfer it to the wheel hub, the way Mr. Honda intended. The lugs aren't made to carry the load of your car. They're are meant to attach the wheel and that's it. Riding on them without locating the wheel on the hub center could cause them to fail due to force being applied where they are the weakest, especially when there's only four of them. That wouldn't be pretty. It would be especially bad if you dented a rim slightly or had a tire go out-of-round. Get them rings.

listen to the man.

i have a friend who had rotas, and w/o the hubcentering rings, he ended up destroying two of his rota wheels. Those rota wheels are designed for hubcenteric axles/spindles. the lug holes are NOT designed to bear the load of the car. They just hold the wheel to the car under lateral load.

JSIR
09-10-2003, 01:43 PM
well I went to two shops today and even my Honda dealer who sells aftermarket rims. I was told that hubcentric rings are not needed anymore, the rims being produced are now lugcentric in that they center themselves once the lugs are installed in proper sequence and as long as they have the right seat on them. The one shop that sells Rotas says they use to supply hubcentric rings all the time but they are no longer necessary.

sounds confusing but I may get some just for peace of mind.

:o

bobdobbs
09-10-2003, 02:15 PM
Those guys are full of it. It ain't their car. This is what you need, bro:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42614&item=2431907570

JSIR
09-10-2003, 02:51 PM
thanks for the link, I'll look at getting some if they ship to Canada.


Joey

teejoh
09-10-2003, 05:32 PM
...Rotas are lugcentric and the hubcentric ring is not required but for piece of mind get them. I have sub-zeroes and, they were on my CRX for two years with no rings and no problems. When I sold the crx and switched them over to the EP I ordered the rings just "because" but had no problems with the wheels on my EP prior to ordering the hubcentric rings.....but I'm anal with "new" stuff so......the rings can be had for $12 shipped to your door.

JSIR
09-10-2003, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by teejoh
...Rotas are lugcentric and the hubcentric ring is not required but for piece of mind get them. I have sub-zeroes and, they were on my CRX for two years with no rings and no problems. When I sold the crx and switched them over to the EP I ordered the rings just "because" but had no problems with the wheels on my EP prior to ordering the hubcentric rings.....but I'm anal with "new" stuff so......the rings can be had for $12 shipped to your door.

yeah I dont think its as important as it was in the past or with other rims, I think the lugcentric argument makes some sense. But its always nice to have peace of mind with the rings in place, where did you get them for that price ?. I emailed Rota but no repsonse yet.

BTW, Mackin Industries has been saying that rings are necessary with their rims - Volks.

bobdobbs
09-10-2003, 07:49 PM
Guys, the rims do not matter. Your *car's lugs* were not designed to support the weight of the vehicle. Anybody that tells you that lugcentricity is the way to go is a moron. The lugs are strong laterally from the wheel hub. Applying force 90 degrees to that is the most likely way to get them to fail, which is what happens when you mount rims without supporting them on the hub center. When lugs fail, wheels fall off. Usually, while you're going fast.

You could put the strongest rim on there and of they're not hubcentric you're putting force on the lugs where it doesn't belong. It doesn't matter if they're Rotas or BBS, or Rays. Old or new. The wheels need to mount directly to the wheel hub, so IT absorbs the force, not the lugs.

chunky
09-10-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by bobdobbs
Guys, the rims do not matter. Your *car's lugs* were not designed to support the weight of the vehicle. Anybody that tells you that lugcentricity is the way to go is a moron. The lugs are strong laterally from the wheel hub. Applying force 90 degrees to that is the most likely way to get them to fail, which is what happens when you mount rims without supporting them on the hub center. When lugs fail, wheels fall off. Usually, while you're going fast.

You could put the strongest rim on there and of they're not hubcentric you're putting force on the lugs where it doesn't belong. It doesn't matter if they're Rotas or BBS, or Rays. Old or new. The wheels need to mount directly to the wheel hub, so IT absorbs the force, not the lugs.

once again, i endorse fully the comments of mr. dobbs.

do not be a fool. you do NOT want to find out what the long term effects of not using hub rings is.

hondas are designed to use hubcentric wheels. almost all wheels made today are designed as hubcentric wheels.

rotas are most certainly NOT lugcentric. anyone who says they are is a fool.


just to restate what bobdobbs said:

the suspension on your car is designed to support the weight of the car from the HUBS. Without hubcentering rings, the lugs are forced to deal with this weight. What happens over time is that the lug rubs against the holes in the wheel, and over time, you get more and more play, until finally one day you get wheel failure from a lug shearing off, or you start getting horrid vibrations b/c the holes have been worn out so much that the lug nuts can no longer properly secure the wheel to the spindle.

get your hubcentering rings now.

teejoh
09-13-2003, 06:17 PM
...go to h-t search "hubcentric" and see that this argument has been "done" hundreds of times. I only speak from experience and make no claims to be a wheel doctor but in two years I never experienced a shimmy, shake, or strange vibration from my lugcentric rotas. I have the hub rings now but only because I found them at a good price and they were at hand when I was rotating my tires. They would not have been something I would have searched for but like I said before "peace of mind." The way I see it now I'm covered both ways lug and hubcentric :D :p

raiyo
11-06-2003, 11:43 PM
After reading all these mumbo jumbo I think I'll get aome hub rings, just for the heck of it. Better safe than sorry right? It doesn't cost me an arm and a leg, so why not.

Search List: Rota hubcentric ring hubcentic ring hub centric ring

bobdobbs
11-06-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by raiyo
Better safe than sorry right? It doesn't cost me an arm and a leg, so why not.

Exactly. Your lugs will thank you.

NamingException
11-07-2003, 06:52 AM
Not to rekindle a debate here, but...

When I got my Rotas they didn't come with rings and I was scared to put them on my car. I did a little research, though, and found that the only utility they serve is to make certain that the wheel is centered on the hub. They don't transfer any weight; they are just spacers. They are definitely not necessary, since you can get the wheel centered pretty well without much effort. The only time they are really that useful is if you have a wheel that you are having a hard time centering on the hub for some reason.

Without rings, the weight of the car is not all on the lugs. The tightened lugs provide friction between the wheel and the hub, which transfers the weight to the hub, and is what carries the weight of the car. I can't find it now, but I found where someone had done the math to figure out how much weight it would take to break this force and move the wheel from the hub, and it came out to be like 14 tons or something like that. Plastic rings aren't going to help support weight much in those circumstances anyway.

There is a lot of confusion about this topic, and everyone seems to feel very strongly about it for some reason. I know it's been mentioned that there are a lot of threads on honda-tech.com about this, some of them are incorrect though. Here's a pretty good one: http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=283684

JSIR
11-07-2003, 11:08 AM
yeah I think the tapered lug holes on the Rota wheels would do a decent job of centering the wheel. But I decided to spend a couple bucks and I got the centering rims, they are so cheap its good insurance so one less thing for me to think about regardless if they are really needed or not. I road race the car a few times each season so its worth a try. I understand both sides of the argument and I am sure you can get away without the rings just fine, but their is always a few cases that you hear about that makes you think twice and for the low cost its worth eliminating the concern for me.

raiyo
11-08-2003, 12:46 AM
How much are you people paying for the rings? So far I found it on ebay for 20 and also found a local store that sells it for 20.

HondaMan
11-08-2003, 09:15 AM
Hmmm...interesting topic. My new Rotas did not come with these rings and I doubt I will get them. I don't believe the hype about them and my wheels were smooth as silk up to 124MPH two weeks ago. I also use a torque wrench to ensure proper lug tightening...like Knestis mentions in this thread: http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=283684

:)

Vertigo
11-11-2003, 01:33 AM
I have a set of Rota Subzero. The wheel bore is 67.1 and the hub bore on the car is 56.15(all mesurements in mm). I got a set of aluminum hubcentric rings from discout tire direct for $8 shipped.

raiyo
11-11-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by Vertigo
I have a set of Rota Subzero. The wheel bore is 67.1 and the hub bore on the car is 56.15(all mesurements in mm). I got a set of aluminum hubcentric rings from discout tire direct for $8 shipped.

damn... cheap!!! anyone wanna tell me my measurements on my Grid?

Rey
11-11-2003, 10:55 PM
2 questions

1. Can someone post a link or phone number of where I can get these rings? I want metal, no platic.

2. Where can I get some rota wheels?

raiyo
11-11-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Rey
2 questions

1. Can someone post a link or phone number of where I can get these rings? I want metal, no platic.

2. Where can I get some rota wheels?

Check out Machiii.net, pretty good price on Rotas. Free Shipping, okay service, and responds to your emails within 24 hrs. I got mines off them. They'll give u a set of free lugs and hub centric rings when you buy a set of rims/tires. Make sure you ask them about it, else you won't get it.

If you wanna buy just the rings, go scroll up to the beginning of the post. I believe there is a link to eBay on the rings for sale.

Vertigo
11-11-2003, 11:19 PM
Rayio, here's a link for wheel bore sizes of the commom wheel manufacturers.
Click Here! (http://www.prestigewheel.com/HubCentricTable.asp)

Rey, I didn't see them listed on there website, so I just caled them.
Discount tire direct 1-800-916-3211.
I got my rots's from here-->Enjoy! (http://store.yahoo.com/racinglab/wheels.html)
I belive you can also get Rota Wheels from Showstoppers!

raiyo
11-11-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Vertigo
Rayio, here's a link for wheel bore sizes of the commom wheel manufacturers.
Click Here! (http://www.prestigewheel.com/HubCentricTable.asp)

Rey, I didn't see them listed on there website, so I just caled them.
Discount tire direct 1-800-916-3211.
I got my rots's from here-->Enjoy! (http://store.yahoo.com/racinglab/wheels.html)
I belive you can also get Rota Wheels from Showstoppers!

The site is nice, but still... which one is for Rota Grids? Seems like the Wheel Bores are all the same, but what is the Hub snout?

Vertigo
11-12-2003, 12:31 AM
You're right the wheel bore size is the same on all makes of Rota wheels. I don't quite understand what hub snout is. Care to elaberate?

HondaMan
11-12-2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by Rey
2 questions

1. Can someone post a link or phone number of where I can get these rings? I want metal, no platic.

2. Where can I get some rota wheels?

I got my Rotas here:
http://revolutionsmotorsports.com/en-us/dept_9.html

Great prices and free shipping and called me when there was a shipping delay (only 5 days).

Also, jaydm.com sales them but I got no response from them when I tried to order from them. I would avoid them.

tony speed
11-13-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by bobdobbs
Those guys are full of it. It ain't their car. This is what you need, bro:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42614&item=2431907570

yea...i've been driving around without the rings until this morning. but the bad part is they only sent me 2 plastic rings! what am i going to do for the back rings? and i have no idea what rings fit my gt-7s or where to find metal ones. my old ssrs have metal ones i'd like to try but they seem pretty stuck in there and i haven't been able to pull one out to see if it fits.

Where can i get metal hub cebtric rings by inner/outer diameter measurements?

Rey
11-13-2003, 01:49 PM
I never bought after markey rims before. Do all rims come with those rings? How about stock wheels, do they come with rings?