Turbo vs. k20a2 swap?

[trabadoo22]

I know this has been discussed before a while ago, but with more people doing either and what seems to be less exspensive pricing I am wondering what your opinions are. Recently I have seen prices as low as $3500 for the A2 engine and if I could get $2500 for my A3 it would be very feasable to do the swap. But eventually I would like to have around atleast 250 hp. So for the people that have done the a2 engine swap I am wondering what type of gas is required. Same for the people that are turbo'd. This might seem like a trivial question, but gas has gotten damn exspensive. How many miles per gallon can I expect to get from a stage 1 turbo. Turbo is what I think I would like to do since I would easily be at the 250 hp mark with a stage 1 turbo. I know that the turbo can be safe on the engine now, but what happens when I have around 100,000 miles on the car. What type of maitinence is required when I have a good amount of miles on the engine? This car is my daily driver and I hope to have it in good running condition long after it is paid for, 5 years. Sorry about all the questions, but I pretty much know nothing about turbos or engines for that matter. So I appreciate any info. Thanks.

[NeoBlue]

You will spend a lot of $$ for gas and maintainance in force induction compare to N/A engine swap like K20A2. However it would be hard for a K20A2 to get 250 hp at wheel (if that's what you wanted). For turbo'ed K20A3, you may need high psi.. so maintainance and tuning cost would be high.

Remember, more power needs more $$.

[trabadoo22]

Thanks for the reply. Going on what some people have said, I wouldn't use too much extra gas until the turbo kicks in. So in a sense I can kind of control how much gas I use. I am wondering what type of gas is needed though, premium, super etc. I know the turbo will cost more initially and maybe even more down the road with maitinence, but the power is right there and alot more tempting. What I would like to do is go with the stage 1 cybernation turbo and do whatever is necessary to the internals to have a long lasting engine. Again I have no clue what I would need to accomplish this. If I need to step up to the stage 2 parts and still only run the stage 1 boost then so be it. If that is even possible, I'm not really sure. If I am going to run into issues with the engine when I have a decent amount of miles on it regardless of how beefed up I make it then I guess the engine swap is more realistic for me. There are alot of questions that need to be answered before I do either though since spending a good amount of money on either without knowing the pros and cons would be pretty foolish of me. So anyone with any info I would love to hear it. Thanks.

[EP3_DC5]

Hitting around 250 whp isn't very difficult with the K20A with just boltons.
I'd definately say go K20A2. It rox! I have a 13 second daily driver that gets 31mpg (last tank). My only mods for the 13.803 @ 101.85 run were aem cai/hondata #4/hondata gasket/mm/hp header and removed axleback.
Just to let you know Steve's SSVR6 ran a 14.4 or 14.5 @98mph http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105810
I know that those times are gonna drop with more runs, but he has over 260whp !!! I know that comparing my car to his is apples and oranges, but still.

[trabadoo22]

Ya I remember seing your times. That is a very good time for what you have. It would take alot of practice for me to get those times since I sucked ass my first time at the track. Do you know about how much hp you have with your setup? Another thing I am concidering is getting the swap and later if I decide to invest in the turbo I can. I think I will go and test drive an rsx-s this week to see the difference in engine performance. If it satisfies me then I will go with the swap. Thanks for the help.

[NeoBlue]

Originally posted by EP3_DC5
Hitting around 250 whp isn't very difficult with the K20A with just boltons.
I'd definately say go K20A2. It rox! I have a 13 second daily driver that gets 31mpg (last tank). My only mods for the 13.803 @ 101.85 run were aem cai/hondata #4/hondata gasket/mm/hp header and removed axleback.
Just to let you know Steve's SSVR6 ran a 14.4 or 14.5 @98mph http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105810
I know that those times are gonna drop with more runs, but he has over 260whp !!! I know that comparing my car to his is apples and oranges, but still.

edo did over $20k of mod and he is only up to 242whp.. Also keep in mind he did use some K20A stuff.. and he is the fastest N/A in clubrsx.. I will let you guys to decide if 250whp is a difficult goal or not for K20A2 N/A

So if you go wanna go for 250whp N/A.. swap the K20A instead, and then add boltons.. more cost effective that way..

[02SilverSiHB]

you can get 225whp and 153 in torque pretty easily with the type s motor. I saw an article in superstreet. Even Superstreet couldn't believe it, so they went to see it for themselves. It was done by toda. Toda cams and springs, reflashed ecu, flywheel and clutch, then i/h/e

[CleanBlackSi02]

Good info in here! I wan't a Toda A2!

[trabadoo22]

Ya I was just reading that on the Toda site last night. If I did go with the swap I would probably just leave it stock besides intake and exhaust for now so I could decide later on if I want to go na or turbo. Anyways, I went to the only Acura dealer in town today and they are all out of rsx-s's and say they probably won't get anymore in on the lot until the 04's come in. So that kind of ruins my plans for a test drive for now. I did talk to them about the swap and to my suprise they sounded interested in helping me with getting the ecu reprogrammed to accept my si key. I've heard some people have had issues with their acura dealers about this. In the scc tutorial of the swap they say that the rsx-s cat won't fit the si's exhaust. Other people say that it will fit. I am just wondering if it will fit or not because I allready have an exhaust system and don't really want to have one made to fit.

[EP3_DC5]

Lol, EDO did not have $20K in mods in the engine.
ITR cams, ITR IM polished matched to TB, Hondata ITR flash, exhaust, comptech race header, AEM CAI, UR pulley were his main mods.
Toda engine kit is only $2350!!! Plus you will most likely already have exhaust, header, intake before you get that anyways. If you go FI, you will need to get that stuff anyways.
I'd wait till Hytech releases their lower-end engine kits... right now their $10K kit produces 300whp!!!!!

EDIT: I have around 200whp give or take, depending on temperature and dyno.

[bioevolve]

Originally posted by EP3_DC5
Lol, EDO did not have $20K in mods in the engine.
ITR cams, ITR IM polished matched to TB, Hondata ITR flash, exhaust, comptech race header, AEM CAI, UR pulley were his main mods.
Toda engine kit is only $2350!!! Plus you will most likely already have exhaust, header, intake before you get that anyways. If you go FI, you will need to get that stuff anyways.
I'd wait till Hytech releases their lower-end engine kits... right now their $10K kit produces 300whp!!!!!

EDIT: I have around 200whp give or take, depending on temperature and dyno.

I basically have those mods in mine. ITR cams, ITR IM Hand polished. bored TB 68mm ish, Hondata #4 flash, Cat back EVO, DC Ceramic Heat Wrapped 4-2-1 (convetered to 4-1), AEM CAI, UR pulley Crank & Alt, etc......

Hopefully I will get some decent runs Saturday. Cuz My dyno sucked with half of those mods listed above.

[Dunrick]

Originally posted by EP3_DC5
Hitting around 250 whp isn't very difficult with the K20A with just boltons.
I'd definately say go K20A2. It rox! I have a 13 second daily driver that gets 31mpg (last tank). My only mods for the 13.803 @ 101.85 run were aem cai/hondata #4/hondata gasket/mm/hp header and removed axleback.
Just to let you know Steve's SSVR6 ran a 14.4 or 14.5 @98mph http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105810
I know that those times are gonna drop with more runs, but he has over 260whp !!! I know that comparing my car to his is apples and oranges, but still.

Own up man. You forgot to mention you took out a ton of interior stuff too. Those aren't necesarrily mods, but they DID help your 13.8. Still you got a low 14 second car w/ full interior, and for that I give it props. Cause you really don't have that many mods...a2 is a beast.

[2k2_nbp_egg]

Damn I didn't see steve's runs...that is dissapointing as fuck :( Oh well, look at his MPH, he's granny shifting and still getting 102...not too shabby, but those are some nasty 60'!!! Hopefully he'll be in the 13's w/ slicks and better skills....

A2 pros-less complicated, less hassle, better MPG, 6 gears (unless u don't do tranny), 8k redline

turbo pros- TORQUE BIATCH!!!!! sounds much better, much more smoother powerband, big intercooler smile

a2 cons - 8k redline, a 2L n/a engine can only put out so much tq...n/a tuning will only get you so much more HP (turbo tuning > n/a tuning)

turbo cons - reduces engine value / life, no 6th gear (don't need it w/ a turbo), can make life more of a PITA when you don't want it

Oh well, the A2 is an incredible engine to go N/A with. Turbocharging it is a complete waste IMO, you can get the same results pretty much from the A3. And of course, swapping the higher compression A2 AND turbocharging it is a huge waste of money so don't do that....unless you own a performance shop lololololol:*

[TrippZ]

if i end up keeping the Si for college ( iwant an s2000, callme a little bitch) i want to put in the k20a2 definately. turbocharging just seems like a waste of money in the long run - especially since itll make your motor go pop after a while

[trabadoo22]

Ok. Thanks for helping putting it into perspective. I guess I just looked at all the stock turbo cars, like wrx etc., and thought if they come stock like that then they must be fairly reliable and able to put on a decent amount of miles on the engine before it dies. So I guess I'm wondering is their reliability comparable to an N/A car? What did they have to do to the engine to accomplish this if they are reliable and would it be worth the money to do it to my engine compared to just going N/A?. So far it looks like the swap is going to be my choice, I just want to make sure that is the direction I want to go though. Thanks again for the help.

[abstrack]

i was told the a3 can handle boost very good since the compression ratio is in the 9's. wouldnt that mean are cars would last as long as those wrx's since they have low ratios also?

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by 2k2_nbp_egg
Damn I didn't see steve's runs...that is dissapointing as fuck :( Oh well, look at his MPH, he's granny shifting and still getting 102...not too shabby, but those are some nasty 60'!!! Hopefully he'll be in the 13's w/ slicks and better skills....

yeah, he was getting terrible wheel hop and not to mention the weather wasn't that great.

[trabadoo22]

I think the wrx's compression ratio is somewhere in the 8's. I'm pretty sure that they were built with tougher parts to handle the boost also. Anyways, I've decided to just go for the engine swap. Thanks for the help.

[StrangeShadow]

You will spend a lot of $$ for gas and maintainance in force induction compare to N/A engine swap like K20A2. However it would be hard for a K20A2 to get 250 hp at wheel (if that's what you wanted). For turbo'ed K20A3, you may need high psi.. so maintainance and tuning cost would be high.
making over 250hp with an a2 wont be that hard for long...most jdm itr'[dc5r] owned by shops[in japan] are runnning 400plus...

...if you wanna stand with the evo' and sti' you may need both a2 and turbo[plus a lot of internal changes]... in that case it would be no waste to me...imo