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JSIR
09-05-2002, 09:57 PM
Well after getting my custom mid-pipe and HP header installed I've been back to the dyno a couple times and have not found much HP attributable to those two items. I have tried to copy Miamijdm's setup but I am far away from his dyno numbers and power curve, although we dyno'd at the exact same levels in stock condition.

My baseline dyno was 126 ft lbs torque and 138 whp totally stock. I put on a 2.25" custom mid-pipe and didn't gain any power with that, but I did lose a good bit of torque between 2500 and 5000 rpms. I then put on the HP header and increased my mid-pipe to 2.5". I've lost even more torque below 5000 rpms (which is most likely due tot the mid-pipe), horsepower went up very small bit to 140 whp, almost nothing though. Power ended up at 140 whp with 120 ft lbs torque, torque is down a fair bit. Lastly I tested a K&N drop-in filter and power went up to 143 whp - 3 whp gain from 6000 rpms to redline, about 1/2 whp gain from 2500 rpms upwards.

Only thing missing on the car is an aftermarket intake, anyone think an intake is the missing part of the equation ?. On one of my earlier visits I tested the car without a filter in the stock box as well as just an open intake pipe (rubber hose exposed) and the car only picked up 2 whp, so I didnt' think much of an intake system at the time.

I'm still using the stock muffler, as the stock muffler worked well for Miamijdm so I figured it would do the same for me. My mid-pipes are crush bent piping, I know that isn't the best piping but you would still think some sort of gain would result compared to the tiny tiny stock midpipe that I replaced, plus I got rid of the resonator as well. Only thing I can think of is the car needs an intake system to make everything else work properly. I'm considering going to a smaller mid-pipe to get the torque numbers back up, perhaps something like 2 inch mandrel bent piping, haven't fully decided on that yet. On the street the car feels stronger compared to stock, but its not showing up on the dyno. I'm using the same dyno location in very similar weather conditions , so the consistency is there.

I've been holding out for the Comptech intake to arrive, but if I need an intake I may just get the K&N Typhoon to hold me over until Comptech releases their system in late fall.

BTW, I built and tuned my B16a powered 99 SiR up to 175 whp and 120 ft lbs torque naturally aspirated with over 100 dyno runs on that car, so I'm no stranger to Honda tuning. This k20 engine seems to be a different animal though.

Just thought I would share this info, if anyone has some other dyno info to share it would be cool. Advice is welcomed as well.:confused:

miamijdm
09-05-2002, 10:31 PM
damn JSIR, I wish I had an answer for you. I don't think an intake would make that much difference but your going to need it anyway. The exhaust on mine is 2.25 mandrel bent, but im not sure that would make that much of a difference. I wouldn't worry too much on numbers though, you said it feels stronger right?

JSIR
09-05-2002, 11:20 PM
Miamijdm, thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. Right now I am at least 14whp off of your peak numbers, plus your torque curve is so much nicer from bottom end all the way up. Seeing as our baseline power curves were exactly similar it makes this even more frustrating to comprehend.

I know I can add the intake and perhaps go to a different mid-pipe but somehow I cant see those two items getting me 14 whp. We will see though.

Yeah on the street the car feels a good bit stronger, and after I added the header the bottom end and mid range really felt stronger, very noticeable. So I'm kind of stumped right now, gonna keep playing with it though. thanks again.

66elwood99
09-06-2002, 02:34 AM
JSIR,

If you don't mind me asking, where did you buy your HP Header from and at what cost?
Thanks, Goodluck on finding your lost HP :)

02SilverSiHB
09-06-2002, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by 66elwood99
JSIR,

If you don't mind me asking, where did you buy your HP Header from and at what cost?
Thanks, Goodluck on finding your lost HP :)
he most likely got it from www.nopionline.com and he ordered the one for the base line RSX

ssvr6
09-06-2002, 05:24 AM
I'm also going to the same route as Miami (hate to be a follower, but whaterver works...).

I'm ordering the HP header and getting 2.25 mandrel bent mid pipe made with no resonator.

One question though, MiamiJDM, are you using the stock cat? Also, did you dyno your car completely stock and where is Lujan at? I want to get my car dyno'd and don't know any locally (Except for Mustang Specialties and I don't feel like going there. :rolleyes: )

I'll dyno my car with the CAI and then after the Header and midpipe. We'll see if it's the car or the mods that's making the power.

Thanks,

Steve

JSIR
09-06-2002, 06:15 AM
I ordered my header from Nopi. I think the cost was around $170 US plus shipping.

I think I may have just found the missing power. I just took off my intake box and drove around the block with the intake hose exposed. Feels like a huge gain in power and torque at all rpms, feels really nice. I just did that as a test not to drive too far without a filter system. Ive driven an AEM CAI equipped Civic so I know how it feels compared to my car. I think uncorking the intake is the key to my power gains.

I'll probably pick up a K&N Typhoon System for the short term, it seems to be a better design than the Injen intake, seems to put the filter further back and to the side. I'll keep you guys posted.
thanks for the replies.

02SilverSiHB
09-06-2002, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by JSIR
I ordered my header from Nopi. I think the cost was around $170 US plus shipping.

I think I may have just found the missing power. I just took off my intake box and drove around the block with the intake hose exposed. Feels like a huge gain in power and torque at all rpms, feels really nice. I just did that as a test not to drive too far without a filter system. Ive driven an AEM CAI equipped Civic so I know how it feels compared to my car. I think uncorking the intake is the key to my power gains.

I'll probably pick up a K&N Typhoon System for the short term, it seems to be a better design than the Injen intake, seems to put the filter further back and to the side. I'll keep you guys posted.
thanks for the replies.
I noticed that you had just had the hose exposed also on the dyno for one of your runs. I may be wrong, but I think that the air flow would have been irratic and messed up the gains. The more of a twirl action the air has (from the air going through something like the K&N typhoon) the better gains. Supposedly anyway. Try getting the typhoon for now and try another run, hopefully it'll be better. Good luck!

chunky
09-06-2002, 07:38 AM
the stock exhaust b-pipe is 2" inside diameter - it looks much much smaller, but I measured it the other day when I dropped the exhaust.

HOWEVER, in the silencer (which is a perforated core + glass pack) the inside pipe diameter drops to 1.5". Most likely I will have a shop simply spice in a new section of pipe in place of the silencer.

The inlet piping for the muffler is 2.5" and tapers down to 2.25"


as for why your car doesn't put out the same kind of dyno numbers, where do you live? miami is at sea level so you can always expect good dyno numbers down there as opposed to a place like colorado. Also, temperature will affect your air/fuel ratio - and that affects your power output in a way that makes standardized hp numbers useless.

hacim
09-06-2002, 08:00 AM
I can verify that Colorado statment. I live in Colorado Springs Colorado and our altitude is at 6,200 ft. That robs me of alot of power.

David K.
09-06-2002, 08:12 AM
I don't know if it would have an effect on power, but you might try disconnecting you battery for a few minutes. This is done when installing the intake, but I don't know if it would matter with only exhaust done. Couldn't hurt.

Get the Typhoon; I love mine, and it was only $146 with shipping.
Noticed HUGE gains from it, much more so than from the exhaust.

JSIR
09-06-2002, 08:33 AM
Davidk, thanks, where did you order your K&N Typhoon from, Im having a hard time finding one in stock anywhere, checked with Nopi and they don't have it in stock. thanks.

miamijdm
09-06-2002, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by ssvr6
I'm also going to the same route as Miami (hate to be a follower, but whaterver works...).

I'm ordering the HP header and getting 2.25 mandrel bent mid pipe made with no resonator.

One question though, MiamiJDM, are you using the stock cat? Also, did you dyno your car completely stock and where is Lujan at? I want to get my car dyno'd and don't know any locally (Except for Mustang Specialties and I don't feel like going there. :rolleyes: )

I'll dyno my car with the CAI and then after the Header and midpipe. We'll see if it's the car or the mods that's making the power.

Thanks,

Steve
I'm really glad to see that I was able to guide the way for you guys... I am using the stock cat still because I haven't had time to go to the shop to eliminate it and do the o2 simulator. Bone stock I dynoed 138 to the wheels.. Lujan is located in miami at 1460 nw 78ave... phone #is 305-468-8435... thanks

hacim
09-06-2002, 09:10 AM
Have any of you thought about getting the tornado fans in your intake. I have spokin with my brother who got those installed and he installed them on my dads IS300 and they said you can tell a huge difference. Since you guys go to the dyno all the time I would like to know how much of a difference this is. They are only 69.99 and thats not bad. My brothere also spoke with the guy that owns the company and he said he put them on the intake and on the exhaust before and after the cat on a mustang gt and it improved his 0-60 time by a half second. Thats a pretty dramatic difference in power for 140 bucks. Give it a shot and let us know. Not to many people out there have them and it would be and advantage. My brothere also told my you can hear it and he said it wines like a turbo a little.

02-sir
09-06-2002, 10:15 AM
strange. did you go directly to the dyno after putting the header on? Does anyone know if the HP numbers improve after you drive a little while? (lets the ECU re-learn the fuel map?). Also what wheels do you have. If I recall Miami's 157HP run was with his 18" supperleggeras, but they're light. (somehow you don't strike me as the 20" chromie type)

fishboy
09-06-2002, 10:24 AM
let us know how you do after getting the intake. reading this thread is scaring me, well not really scaring, more like kinda letting me down. i have high expectations that freeing up my exhaust will give me the same if not more power gains as miami's car before the nitrous.

Burgh
09-06-2002, 11:17 AM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it was Grassroots Motorsports that reported that the stock intake system was horribly restrictive and is the key to getting big gains. They ran without the stock box and got huge power. Then they went with a cold air system that was pretty good. In fact, I remember someone posting a piece of that article either on these boards or one of the other ones.

David K.
09-06-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by JSIR
Davidk, thanks, where did you order your K&N Typhoon from, Im having a hard time finding one in stock anywhere, checked with Nopi and they don't have it in stock. thanks.

I ordered mine from planetperformance.com. Ask for Robert. He told me anyone from this site could order for that price. It includes free shipping.

JSIR
09-06-2002, 01:10 PM
my thinking right now is that the Civic intake system flow is matched pretty closely with the flow of the exhaust system. Opening up the exhaust may not result in increased flow if the intake system is maxed out. That may be what I am experiencing. Perhaps if I had the intake first I could have seen better gains with the addition of the exhaust/header upgrade, allowing more air into the engine.

You see Comptech and DC claim gains of 5-6 whp for their RSX-S exhausts, but I've seen guys on ClubRSX with RSX-S' say they didnt gain any power on the dyno.

Good news is that I just read the Import Tuner test of DC's header on the RSX-S, and it only gained 2whp and lost 1 ft lb of torque, not very impressive, especially on that engine.

But I think the intake should help get more flow through the engine based on what I felt today. As soon as i get the intake I will get to a dyno and test it out, I may also unbolt the muffler on one run to see how restrictive it may be.

thanks for all the input.

Burgh
09-06-2002, 02:09 PM
JSIR: I think you nailed it. It's the weakest link theory. You need the combo of both intake and exhaust systems to see the noticeable increase in power.

By the way, it wasn't GRM, but Honda Tuning that had the article on the K20A2 saying that the intakes made a HUGE difference.

SmoothOperator
09-06-2002, 02:32 PM
Man I'm just ITCHIN to get my exhaust put on. Should be about a week or so. I'm also going to order the AEM CAI soon. I wonder what kind of difference that'll make (considering I'm going to wait on headers). Are the stock headers very restrictive? I remember seeing JSIRs comparison pics between the stock and HP headers. There wasn't really that drastic of a difference.
Any thoughts?

fishboy
09-06-2002, 03:19 PM
i was thinking that too. both headers looked similiar. it wasn't like one was cast iron and the other had nice tubing and bends. they both looked the same, both looked nice. i have CAI right now and i will most likely get exhaust first, then make my decision on a header later. i'm dying for an exhaust too, friggin dc should just hurry up! i think the bigger problem is our exhaust piping.

JSIR
09-06-2002, 04:21 PM
well the pictures of the headers don't show you much. If you seen the comparison measurements I posted on the two headers you would see a big difference. The size of the piping and the way they connect into the collector are vastly different. All headers on the market are going to look very similar as stock in terms of piping length and design. There is very little room behind the engine, companies can't really change much other than piping diameter and connections at the collector. The HP header had much bigger primary piping, much bigger collector, and the pipes connected without restriction at the collector. The stock header piping had much smaller diameters at all locations and they were pinched as they met at the split collector.

Personally I would do the intake first, header second, and the exhaust last if I had to do it over again. I just ordered the K&N Typhoon intake today, as soon as it arrives I hope to dyno it, looking forward to a big gain.

Referring to the Import Tuner test of the RSX-S and DC parts, their intake gained almost 14 whp, but it was tested last of the three parts. The header and exhaust together gained only 7.9 whp in total. I bet if the intake was tested first it probably would have gained around 6-7 whp, and then the header and exhaust would have shown larger gains if fitted after the intake, perhaps around 6whp for each part or 12whp for both. Just seems to be the way things are going on these k20 engines, we are seeing wide differences in the gains people are getting with different parts, I think if everyone tested the parts in the same order the gains would be more consistent.

MadMax
09-06-2002, 10:41 PM
JSIR- Its disappointing to see your lack of gains. Im sure some of the other board members are almost as disappointed as you are!

Is it possible, though, that miamijdm's dyno numbers are inflated? Ive heard some shops will do that to make sure customers are satified with their purchase.(?)
miamijdm - do you have any track results without nitrous? With 157 whp you should be ~15.2 - 15.4 no?

JSIR
09-07-2002, 08:04 AM
Madmax/Cozmo - no I am pretty sure Miamijdm's numbers were legit, we both dyno'd on the same version of Dynojet, and his baseline numbers were exactly the same as mine.

Ive come to know a few dyno shops that do play around with the numbers so I know it does happen. There can be wide variations of numbers between different dynos but that usually shows up on the baseline run right away. Thus most people should just concern themselves with the delta change of power gains and losses and not really focus on the ultimate numbers. In Miamijdm's case he went from 138whp to 157whp, so the delta gain was approx. 19whp. That is what I am looking for mostly.

But seeing as we dyno'd the exact same baseline numbers I am hoping to get up in the 150-155 whp range. I'd be happy with that. Only thing about Miamijdm's dyno sheet is that his peak power occured right at the end of the rpm band, and there was a spike in the power when the dyno operator let off the power. This is quite common, and I've had it happen to me before, you get this spike in power as the car stops accelerating and weight transfers to the dyno drum. The spike is worth a couple whp and isnt' really representative of the car's real power. So I would say Miamijdm's real peak number was closer to 155whp, other than that it looked fine. His torque curve was beautiful, flat from 2500 to 6500, very nice.

I am really expecting the power to jump when I put on the intake, from what I felt yesterday testing without the intake box, the car made some substantial gains. Just need to get a good intake and dyno test again. I am pretty convinced that is the missing link. I need to get a better quality mid-pipe in the future but I don't think that is as important as the intake.

MadMax
09-07-2002, 10:29 AM
JSIR - the delta gain is what i was referring to. Like if they use a legit correction factor for "before" and a questionable correction factor for "after" to give the customer the impression that whatever they (the shop) did made a huge difference.

TrippZ
09-07-2002, 10:44 AM
Intake will improve you majorly, no matter what, in my opinion.

The compartment is so freakin' stuffy, and if you guys haven't ever noticed, after a short drive it's extremely hot in there! Imagine after a long time of driving on the road how much hot air is going to be surrounding the stock airbox.

Like on those Car Chase shows, when they show thermal imaging. there's a trail of heat from the car. that heat's going to go into the engine. With intake, you're getting away from that stuffy compartment. Even though you wont get 259 hp and be a h4x0r l337, your power band SHOULD stay much more constant.

TrippZ
09-07-2002, 10:46 AM
besides, the sound is worth it in the end, anyway, right? ;p

JSIR
09-07-2002, 12:24 PM
yeah it could happen, and I know it does happen at some places, but in Miamijdm's case he just dyno tested at the place , they didn't sell him any parts from what I know. The place that dyno'd his car is legit, and he is sharp enough to know if they were playing with the correction factors. I think 150-155 whp is possible with bolt-ons on this engine.

I don't want to alarm anyone with my post as I know many of you are buying HP headers and custom mid-pipes etc..... . I now believe that the order in which you dyno test can have a big effect on ultimate numbers. If I would have tested with all the bolt-ons at once instead of individually it may have been different. So give me some time to get my intake installed and test and then we shall see. This engine is definitely not your average Honda when it comes to bolt-ons and tuning, it definitely reacts different to what I've been accumstomed to over the years.

I'll keep you posted.

02SilverSiHB
09-07-2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by TrippZ
Intake will improve you majorly, no matter what, in my opinion.

The compartment is so freakin' stuffy, and if you guys haven't ever noticed, after a short drive it's extremely hot in there! Imagine after a long time of driving on the road how much hot air is going to be surrounding the stock airbox.

Like on those Car Chase shows, when they show thermal imaging. there's a trail of heat from the car. that heat's going to go into the engine. With intake, you're getting away from that stuffy compartment. Even though you wont get 259 hp and be a h4x0r l337, your power band SHOULD stay much more constant.
the stock air box is actually very good at keeping hot air from getting into the intake manifold. If you ever really look closely there is another tube that goes up to the top grill. It grabs air from outside and is pushed into the stock intake. The only thing bad about the stock intake is how restrictive it is. The homemade intake I have is actually worse in some cases, as it is just sitting there next to the engine taking in hot air. It gets better after you get on it, but before that, it kinda bogs slightly. That's why short intakes are good for higher end power versus low end like a cai

JSIR
09-07-2002, 02:33 PM
I think the stock intake does inhale better once the car is moving, perhaps with air entering the box a bit easier. Maybe that is why my car feels stronger than stock, but on the dyno it hasn't shown any improvement.

m0ns00n
09-07-2002, 02:44 PM
*WARNING* potential stoopid question alert....

How much power does using the air conditioner lose you ?
How much power does super cooled air give you ?

I assume somewhere down the line of car-tinkering, someone may have played with rigging a feedback line from the air-con back into the intake.

Any of you gear-heads care to comment ?

As you can tell, I'm pretty clueless :)

David K.
09-07-2002, 03:46 PM
I think every 10 degree drop in intake temp. gives you about 1% more hp; I think that's right. As for rigging your A/C to run to your intake, probably more trouble than it's worth. Get a nitrous setup; it provides increased power by introducing more oxygen into your motor, as well as cooling the air. Just run a small shot, like 20hp or so if you're worried about your motor.

esmith13
09-09-2002, 01:24 PM
I read an article posted on clubsi.com (linked from a gear-head site) that stated a dyno test on our engines proved a few intresting things...

1. The stock air box in our ep's is VERY restrictive. In alot of cars a CAI is the only sensible way to go, but in ours even a SRI (Typhoon, for example) is a dramatic improvement in air flow...

2. As expected, replacing the header and mid-pipe (or a cat-back exhaust) drastically increases air flow and reduces evil back preassure.

3. Once the CAI or SRI and exhaust (and optionally the header) are upgraded, there is a LARGE power difference between using 87-89 octane gas and using 93-94 octane gas. The higher octane gas gave our car much more power than would typically be the case, to the gear-heads ran the numbers....

They found out that the compression ratio of our engines lends itself EXTREMELY well to better fuel economy and higher power using high octane gas -- But only if you increase the air flow on your car.

I say keep your mid-pipe and header... add the typhoon, run your car to empty and fill'er up with the highest octane available in your area (93-94).

Make sure during your mods you dissconnect the battery! And when done follow the steps in the Typhoon install doc. to re-program your ECU. they work wonders! A friend with an ep didn't follow the recommendations and didn't quite get the power gain I did from the install... He had to reset his ECU and follow the steps listed.

I think it basicall said when you hook the battery back up. Start your car (cold) and give it gas in neutral nd keep it at a steady 3000rpm until you reach normal operating tempature (about 1/4 the way up on temp guage), then idle in neutral for 5 minutes before you turn off the car. You would be supprised what a little forced-programming can do for your engine!!!

SpacemanSpiff
09-09-2002, 01:46 PM
Do you have a link to that article esmith13?

02SilverSiHB
09-09-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
I read an article posted on clubsi.com (linked from a gear-head site) that stated a dyno test on our engines proved a few intresting things...

1. The stock air box in our ep's is VERY restrictive. In alot of cars a CAI is the only sensible way to go, but in ours even a SRI (Typhoon, for example) is a dramatic improvement in air flow...

2. As expected, replacing the header and mid-pipe (or a cat-back exhaust) drastically increases air flow and reduces evil back preassure.

3. Once the CAI or SRI and exhaust (and optionally the header) are upgraded, there is a LARGE power difference between using 87-89 octane gas and using 93-94 octane gas. The higher octane gas gave our car much more power than would typically be the case, to the gear-heads ran the numbers....

They found out that the compression ratio of our engines lends itself EXTREMELY well to better fuel economy and higher power using high octane gas -- But only if you increase the air flow on your car.

I say keep your mid-pipe and header... add the typhoon, run your car to empty and fill'er up with the highest octane available in your area (93-94).

Make sure during your mods you dissconnect the battery! And when done follow the steps in the Typhoon install doc. to re-program your ECU. they work wonders! A friend with an ep didn't follow the recommendations and didn't quite get the power gain I did from the install... He had to reset his ECU and follow the steps listed.

I think it basicall said when you hook the battery back up. Start your car (cold) and give it gas in neutral nd keep it at a steady 3000rpm until you reach normal operating tempature (about 1/4 the way up on temp guage), then idle in neutral for 5 minutes before you turn off the car. You would be supprised what a little forced-programming can do for your engine!!!
old news

esmith13
09-09-2002, 02:07 PM
...02SilverSiHB...

I'm not a die-hard motor head, and my job keeps me pretty busy...

It's not old news to me, and I was just trying to help.

But since it is old news to you, could you please post the link to the article??
I no have it bookmarked, and it's a bitch to find an article on clubsi.com :rolleyes:

civic hatch boi
09-09-2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by JSIR
I think the stock intake does inhale better once the car is moving, perhaps with air entering the box a bit easier. Maybe that is why my car feels stronger than stock, but on the dyno it hasn't shown any improvement.

old news

civic hatch boi
09-09-2002, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by David K.
I think every 10 degree drop in intake temp. gives you about 1% more hp; I think that's right. As for rigging your A/C to run to your intake, probably more trouble than it's worth. Get a nitrous setup; it provides increased power by introducing more oxygen into your motor, as well as cooling the air. Just run a small shot, like 20hp or so if you're worried about your motor.

old news

MPgrunt81
09-09-2002, 02:29 PM
To all the people who posted information... Thanks. (esmith, david K, JSIR, etc. etc.) That's how people like me who don't know everything (like civic boi seems to) learn.

To civic hatch boi,
Stop being an asshole trying to raise your post count.

JSIR
09-09-2002, 04:13 PM
thanks for the info emith13, that was pretty informative, I'm looking forward to the Typhoon , that is a strange ecu programming step though.

02-sir
09-09-2002, 04:29 PM
Yeah that is pretty strange. The owners manual explains that there are certain codes that the ECU must relearn every time the battery is disconnected and that these codes need to be set before you can do an emissions test. It explains that they will automatically set within a couple days of normal driving but if you're pressed for time you can go out and drive with the throttle at a constant position for x amount of time etc...
It's a good idea to do this with the new intake, (or exhaust or whatever) but does the 3000rpm at no load method actually program the ECU to make MORE power? somehow I doubt it, but I'm no expert.

02SilverSiHB
09-09-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
...02SilverSiHB...

I'm not a die-hard motor head, and my job keeps me pretty busy...

It's not old news to me, and I was just trying to help.

But since it is old news to you, could you please post the link to the article??
I no have it bookmarked, and it's a bitch to find an article on clubsi.com :rolleyes:
sorry man :D I was mainly referring to the resetting the ecu. I shouldn't have posted that comment in that way. Anyway I'm not sure where that thread is at. sorry

02SilverSiHB
09-09-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by MPgrunt81
To all the people who posted information... Thanks. (esmith, david K, JSIR, etc. etc.) That's how people like me who don't know everything (like civic boi seems to) learn.

To civic hatch boi,
Stop being an asshole trying to raise your post count.
alright, here's what I know about resetting the ecu. I'm not sure where the back up ecu fuse is, but....
On my previouse civic (97) I would not only disconnect the battery, but also take out the back up ecu fuse. it was under the hood and was called back up/radio. You'll need your radio code to set it back later.

After resetting the ecu (make sure the engine is cold), turn the car on, and don't press the gas. Let the engine warm up to normal temp. Then shut it off. Later on drive it around hard as hell for about 10 miles to let the ecu learn as you drive around. It will learn the fuel/air mapping,etc. I can't get technical, as I'm not that smart :D
I did this a lot when I would try and street tune my car (I had a JRSC). It helped amazingly when you mod the car. you may not notice much of a difference with just little bolt ons like I/H/E. But it does help.

Hope that clears things up. And also I was told a while back that for every 10 degrees colder your intake temp is, your supposed to gain like 1hp. now that all depends since when the intake temp goes down, your timing is advanced and more fuel is used....at least when I had my JRSC civic.

02SilverSiHB
09-09-2002, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
1. The stock air box in our ep's is VERY restrictive. In alot of cars a CAI is the only sensible way to go, but in ours even a SRI (Typhoon, for example) is a dramatic improvement in air flow...

2. As expected, replacing the header and mid-pipe (or a cat-back exhaust) drastically increases air flow and reduces evil back preassure.

3. Once the CAI or SRI and exhaust (and optionally the header) are upgraded, there is a LARGE power difference between using 87-89 octane gas and using 93-94 octane gas. The higher octane gas gave our car much more power than would typically be the case, to the gear-heads ran the numbers....

They found out that the compression ratio of our engines lends itself EXTREMELY well to better fuel economy and higher power using high octane gas -- But only if you increase the air flow on your car.

I say keep your mid-pipe and header... add the typhoon, run your car to empty and fill'er up with the highest octane available in your area (93-94).

Make sure during your mods you dissconnect the battery! And when done follow the steps in the Typhoon install doc. to re-program your ECU. they work wonders! A friend with an ep didn't follow the recommendations and didn't quite get the power gain I did from the install... He had to reset his ECU and follow the steps listed.

I think it basicall said when you hook the battery back up. Start your car (cold) and give it gas in neutral nd keep it at a steady 3000rpm until you reach normal operating tempature (about 1/4 the way up on temp guage), then idle in neutral for 5 minutes before you turn off the car. You would be supprised what a little forced-programming can do for your engine!!!
1. very true!
2. but also can take some low end torque away...but since we are high revven bastards, it'll be just fine :D although if FI it helps even more, of course
3. A larger power difference...well, if you're heavily modded yes, but with I/H/E it will help a little to go up to a higher octane, since you're letting more air come in to the engine and also making it easier to exit. More air means better combustion, which can also make you run lean (ping), but that's not going to happen with just I/H/E. That's why with previous gen civics with a JRSC, we got a lot of pinging at low rpms because the ecu couldn't adjust in time with the extra amount of air flow and didn't open the injectors more. That's why JR made a resistor to full the ecu into thinking the air temp coming in was at only 1 degree, making the car run rich to avoid the danger of running lean. I could go on and on with that subject :D
I really don't agree with revving the motor up during the warm up. I feel the ecu needs to learn how different the car has more air coming in during idle. Then when you get on it, the car learns the more air flow and adjust accordingly. That's maybe why JSIR had some low gains at first. We always (we'll some of us :D ) drive our cars slow for the break in, so his car was still going off that mapping it had learned previously. Also, when you take your car to the dealer for service or anywhere else....most mechanics disconnect the ecu for saftey reasons (overly safe you if ask me). So when you get your car back, you'll probably want to reset it again and go through the same thing you did to reset the ecu and let it learn what's up with your car.

Sorry for not just posting this in one reply, I just decided I might give some info. I thought maybe some of you already knew this stuff

esmith13
09-09-2002, 07:19 PM
In reference to your comment about using a resistor to fake out the air temp....

I am involved in another post on this site about someone who found the resistor and instructions for a RSX base or '02 Si. It's listed as an advanced timing kit for $0.25 (about what a resistor is worth - or about 5 resistors)

What are your opinions on using this resistor on our cars? I know the electronics theory of how it works, but lets assume you have your car thinking the air temp is 1 degree farenheit and in reality it's 90+ degrees in the dead of summer...

What's the effects on your EP?? Can you damage the car? Does using this void your warranty?

Keeping the fuel mix richer sounds like a great way to get extra power, but I want my EP to last long enough for someone to call it a rust bucket one day (a fast a shit rust bucket!).

Please any info would be greatly apprecieated.. (sp)

02SilverSiHB
09-10-2002, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by esmith13
In reference to your comment about using a resistor to fake out the air temp....

I am involved in another post on this site about someone who found the resistor and instructions for a RSX base or '02 Si. It's listed as an advanced timing kit for $0.25 (about what a resistor is worth - or about 5 resistors)

What are your opinions on using this resistor on our cars? I know the electronics theory of how it works, but lets assume you have your car thinking the air temp is 1 degree farenheit and in reality it's 90+ degrees in the dead of summer...

What's the effects on your EP?? Can you damage the car? Does using this void your warranty?

Keeping the fuel mix richer sounds like a great way to get extra power, but I want my EP to last long enough for someone to call it a rust bucket one day (a fast a shit rust bucket!).

Please any info would be greatly apprecieated.. (sp)
is this .25 cent thing off of ebay by chance? Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I think the new Si's (including the RSX) have touchy ecu's, so any change would send it into limp mode, unless a professional company comes out with something...like www.hondata.com or mugen (which I think mugen has something for the RSX)
So it's some kind of resistor? Well, the car could advance to much and you could get pinging. and yes it will void your warranty most likely. Also, too rich isn't good either. I wish our ep's were as easy to mess with when it came to timing. It was snap on previous civics. I'm kind of in the dark on how to do this, I assume it's something a chip will have to do.

The resistor I was talking about actually had wires that spliced into the IAT sensor (that sensor that is in your intake, before it leads to the air box.) That was how it fooled the ecu to think it was getting colder air. This was only a good idea because I had supercharger. With our cars, that wouldn't be a good idea. The iat doesn't tell the ecu to advance timing, it just tells the ecu to open the injectors more. More fuel was needed for the JRSC Civic to prevent detonation/pinging. If you did this to your car in it's current state, this would make in run to rich and would bog you down terribly.