Ice Cold Intake..

[TrippZ]

WARNING - THESE HAVE NOT BEEN TESTED. THESE ARE IDEAS

THESE ARE ALSO IDEAS THAT ARE PROBABLY MOST EFEFCTIVE USING THE HOMEMADE INTAKE SEEN IN THE "Homemade Intake" THREAD

Late last night, when i was trying to go to bed (im not joking; im always up for an hour or so just thinking about how to improve cars. i love cars. carscarscarscarscarscars!), I hatched out this idea...

On those hot summer days when your Intake doesnt get much (much? haha, if you're in Texas, you get NONE!) cold air, I was thinking about having this add on for your intake (these are just ideas)

Basically, it's a little box in a circle shape on top of your Intake cone, and there'd be a little RPM indicator hooked up to a tiny bit of water (of course, you should get a bypass valve, incase something happens [liek going through puddles, not my intake idea ;p]), and under the water, would be chips of Dry Ice. What happens, when you gun it, before the engine revs, the little indicator releases a steady jet of water, and when the water hits the dry ice, the fumes will be released (dry ice is extremely cold). There would be 4 or more nozzles that would release the vapors, and they'd be pointed toward the cone. Now, since those vapors are out before the engine goes, once it DOES start to rev, the intake would suck them in (keep in mind that it'd be about a .00001 wait, so the vapors would be going that way anyway). Wha-la, cold air.

BUT WAIT!

i have another idea, this time, it has to do with regular ice.

Again, you'll need a bypass valve, just incase. You hook up a tough plastic bag (not a Kroger bag, i'll go out and find a tough brand of plastic that might work and tell you all later) and then put in a little bit of ice, and seal that part off (using heat, possibly, or just tying it will work i guess). Then you poke tiny, tiny holes into it, just so air can circulate. Put it in another bag. Then place that bag around your cone, and clamp it down using your existing clamp....

CRAP. the bell just rang for 7th period (im at school, teehee)

I'll finish the rest a little later (when i get home)

sorry!

[02blksi]

Stop watching the back to the future movie so much !! :) I thought i told you that Damn FLUX CAPACITOR you keep designing will NEVER WORK in the EP LOL -:) good random ideas though. --you must have won alot of scinece fair projects-- joe :p

[DownTheHatch]

I don't think you want ICE COLD air. What you really need is cool air, kind of like a fan. Using Dry Ice and water to create air with freezing temperatures could be a danger to your internals.

[02blksi]

jackson racing makes the water atomizer for there supercharger systems. The key to preventing hydrolock with water is the atomization of the particles, to create the "misting" affect. therefore lowering the extreme intake charges, after all nothing cools or evaporates better than plan ole H2o, well then of course there's alcohol LOL :) --- i dont know why i posted this??? but hope everyone learns from it :confused: :confused:

[grooveline]

hey sucka...I hear what your getting at but that is too much to try and hook up, let alone iron out the gremlins....

however.... I was reading this book I bought about super rare muscle cars. One trick that Dan Yenko used on his 67' camaro, was a coffee and about 3 ft. of extra gas line. He added the extra length of gas line, then he coiled it up, and put it in the coffee can. next he would just pack in ice. cold dense fuel= more fuel per cylinder.....

simple. hmm....... I'm wonderin if we could acomplish such a task with our cars?

but hear me now, listen to me later, but understand a week from now.... you are just a little girlie man with no biceps!:)

[fishboy]

i saw this on a website once, i forget which one, but a guy hooked up his a/c to his intake somehow. i didn't stick around to see if it worked or not, but all the guys were telling him it wouldn't work. "there is no way the cooler air entering the engine would compensate for the loss of power with having your a/c being turned on in the first place," was the normal response. he was supposed to have taken it to a strip to see if it improved his times any. i wish i visited that thread again. if that worked it would be much easier than hooking up some device with water or ice.

[TrippZ]

They're not random. I put alot of thought into this. I have a new idea now...

This works kind of like a valve that will releave excess pressure.


1. Bling Bling Intake Pipe
2. Regular Cone
3. FFA (Forced Freezing Air [i like to make up names :)])

It looks pretty stupid, probably because I designed it in paint, but Its to get the basic idea across. Up at the top, where it's the steepest point, is where the valves are. they're those two red dots, pretty much. Down at the bottom two "legs," those will be fitted with two chunks of dry ice (symbolized by two white blocks). I have yet to figure out a way to get water into the pressure chambers, but heck, give me some time, I made this just last night.

Now that i'm thinking about it, this kind of forced air might be a tad harmful? Because the engine is so hot and the air is so cold? Can I get some ideas please? (hoping to be proven wrong!)

[twill]

Something to consider about the Dry Ice as well... it is mostly frozen C02 (carbon dioxide) and not oxygen, which is needed for combustion. Pumping more non-burning gasses into the intake might not gain you much.

It seems like packing/wrapping your intake pipe with the Dry Ice would keep the intake charge cooler and more dense. For that matter, why couldn't you use custom AC refrigerant piping to wrap around the intake and somehow plumb that back into the stock AC system or into an auxiliary AC condenser/dryer unit. Too heavy/cumbersome?

[TrippZ]

Actualy, CO2 would be more helpful then regular air (in scientific terms - PLEASE COMMENT!)

Oxygen is a very small part of air, i think it's only 45% or something? I'll check a little later. In CO2, Oxygen is 2 parts out of 3. 1 Carbon atom for every 2 Oxygen. That's 66% Oxygen.

Again, my ideas are in the beginning stages. These haven't been tested yet. I did, however, bring the idea to a Performance store next door to my workplace, and they want me to design it and try it out on a car and see what happens.

Also, I have designed a new way to do it. I'll be scanning in my sketch (its the first time i've drawn it out on paper) a little later.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by TrippZ
Actualy, CO2 would be more helpful then regular air (in scientific terms - PLEASE COMMENT!)

Oxygen is a very small part of air, i think it's only 45% or something? I'll check a little later. In CO2, Oxygen is 2 parts out of 3. 1 Carbon atom for every 2 Oxygen. That's 66% Oxygen.

Again, my ideas are in the beginning stages. These haven't been tested yet. I did, however, bring the idea to a Performance store next door to my workplace, and they want me to design it and try it out on a car and see what happens.

Also, I have designed a new way to do it. I'll be scanning in my sketch (its the first time i've drawn it out on paper) a little later.
aren't you just 15? your going to be the biggest car enthusiast in the world!

[TrippZ]

yeah, im only 15 ;p

but i love cars. I've come up with VERY innovative designs.

First, it was just some valves going off when you dont even now when.

Then, it was all about 2 levers, 1 poked a bag of water, the other let a valve go.

Then, it was about 2 levers again, where one would pull a slide out and let water into the ice chaber, and the other would pull up two gates that would let the air out.

Now, it's with 1 lever, and 1 gate. And it'll go right into the intake. :) You pull a lever, and it lets water from the Water Tank into the Dry Ice Chamber. Then, inside the Presurizing chambers, the gasses are left to build up. \The one gate is covered with a Slide that has heavy duty plastic in it (basically, if this design was to actually work and be sold, there'd be little boxes with 100 slides, get it?). What'll happen, since the plastic is weaker then the titanium (has to be titanium, I decided, or reinforced steel. it needs to stand up to ALOT of pressure), it'll give first. The new design basically is slanted in a way where when you dont have it ready for a shot (i decided to call it a shot, because when the plastic tears, it's like a huge POW!), the intake cone can still effectivly suck in wair. When your shot goes off, the exhaust gate is pointed at an angle in which it'll go right into the path of suction. It's really, really, quite simple, but complicated as well. I just have to find out of the extra carbon atoms from the CO2 are going to damage our beloved K20 engine. ... ... only one way to find out, right? *gulps in fear*

(just kidding, im not gonna put that on my car untill i know it works. I'm buying a dodge aspen for $150 just to work on the design (and to race with, because i can make it fast in 1 hour :))

[DownTheHatch]

Bypass your Air Conditioning duct and attach it to your intake tube. Ice Cold Air.

[TrippZ]

someone already brought that up

they said that where they heard it from, everyone replied with "it wouldnt compensate for the power you lost for having your air conditioner on"

:-/ i was thinking about that too, but if i could design a lightweight, durrable way to give a quick boost of power when you're trying to pull in that last stretch...

Im still trying to find a way to change the timing, so you know when its going to shoot.

[David K.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TrippZ
[B]someone already brought that up



but if i could design a lightweight, durrable way to give a quick boost of power when you're trying to pull in that last stretch...

QUOTE]

Nitrous, man!!!

[TrippZ]

ya, but some people (actually, alot of people) dont have the money for **QUALITY** nitrous kits. i say quality because some of the ads i see in my magazines look poorly done.

Also, some people tlel me that Vtec doesnt work good with nitrous.

besides, wouldnt you buy this mod for $50 if you knew it gave your car a smack on the ass (smack as in, pushing it forward with sudden force! not destroying it!)? I want to design something cheap, because damnit, thsi stuff is getting expensive!

[i-WERKS]

Originally posted by TrippZ
Actualy, CO2 would be more helpful then regular air (in scientific terms - PLEASE COMMENT!)

Oxygen is a very small part of air, i think it's only 45% or something? I'll check a little later. In CO2, Oxygen is 2 parts out of 3. 1 Carbon atom for every 2 Oxygen. That's 66% Oxygen.


As far as I know, Carbon Dioxide does not combust. The air only contains 45% oxygen and that's what prevents the whole world from exploding if someone sparked up a match. Pure Oxygen is very flammable. If you go to your science class and ask your teacher what gas is used for those burners, he'll tell you pure oxygen. That's why it burns blue. The idea of Nitrous is that it's a gas in liquid form that is also flammable. Therefore it creates a bigger boom when ignited over normal air. If you blow pure oxygen over an open flame, it would ignite. If you blow carbon dioxide it will put the flame out.

[smokincivic]

Originally posted by i-WERKS


. The idea of Nitrous is that it's a gas in liquid form that is also flammable. Therefore it creates a bigger boom when ignited over normal air. If you blow pure oxygen over an open flame, it would ignite. If you blow carbon dioxide it will put the flame out.

That has got to be the shittiest definition of how Nitrous works I've ever seen in my life and i'm not j/k also if your looking for a cheap way to make this happen dry ice is not the way to go, a one sq. ft. block of dry ice will vaporize in about 1 hour and that stuff isn't the cheapest thing in the world not to mention that if any kind of moisture (in the form of water) came into contact with the dry ice you would have way to much pressure being generated from the reaction of water hitting dry ice (you supermarket frozen food employees should know what I'm talking about ...dry ice bombs!).

[fatboyhatch]

if you invent one of those dryice intakes and find significant horsepower gains you could copy rite it and sell the idea to a company and become a wealthy man. with that much money you might be able to buy 2more civic si's.lol i would .

[TrippZ]

Originally posted by smokincivic


That has got to be the shittiest definition of how Nitrous works I've ever seen in my life and i'm not j/k also if your looking for a cheap way to make this happen dry ice is not the way to go, a one sq. ft. block of dry ice will vaporize in about 1 hour and that stuff isn't the cheapest thing in the world not to mention that if any kind of moisture (in the form of water) came into contact with the dry ice you would have way to much pressure being generated from the reaction of water hitting dry ice (you supermarket frozen food employees should know what I'm talking about ...dry ice bombs!).


thats the whole point. there's going to be so much pressure, then when the slide (which is made of plastic, so it gives) cant give anymore, all the gases are forced into the intake.

Also, thats not true about the one sq. ft vaporizing in an hour, because my friend ordered something (forget what) online and it was sent to him with dry ice keeping it cold.

[TrippZ]

does anyone know a simple wa of extracting C from O2? it's probably not possible (because then there wouldnt be air pollution), but heck, im giving it a shot.

[smokincivic]

Originally posted by TrippZ



thats the whole point. there's going to be so much pressure, then when the slide (which is made of plastic, so it gives) cant give anymore, all the gases are forced into the intake.

Also, thats not true about the one sq. ft vaporizing in an hour, because my friend ordered something (forget what) online and it was sent to him with dry ice keeping it cold.

Ok first of all when a 1 sq. ft. block of dry ice is placed in a hot engine compartment yes it will be vaporized in about an hour, I worked in a supermarket and on slow days I would sit there and watch it, second of all yes there are 2 parts Oxygen in CO2 but just because there are parts of Oxygen in CO2 does not mean that its just going to magically separate upon introduction to your super lame as intake system. Also if you have ever seen (like I stated before) water hit dry ice that much CO2 in your engine would just instantly cause it to shut of (no detonation AT ALL). Your intake system reminds me of a kindergartener making a pie of mudd and then trying to get someone to try it, and all the more knowledgeable people know that they don't want to eat the dirt but the pretend to eat it just to humor the child.

[smokincivic]

Originally posted by TrippZ
does anyone know a simple wa of extracting C from O2? it's probably not possible (because then there wouldnt be air pollution), but heck, im giving it a shot.

Also since I didn't get to read this while I was typing my response to your last dumbass comment NO there is no easy way to separate the Oxygen from CO2 ya jackass! Oh wait MABEY you can invent some crazy ass way to do it while you try to go to sleep tonight

[twill]

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with thinking about better ways to do things. But it's true that a few physics classes would help! :D

Without getting too technical (not sure I could get really specific anyway), they type of bond in a C02 atom is very stable. Not only is it very hard to break, but the strength of the bond is also one of the reasons that CO2 is non-volatile and won't burn.

But there are other bonds, like those in N2O, that are much easier to break, making them much better for filling up your cylinders with explosive gases... and that helps you make more power.

Don't let us slow you down TrippZ. ;)

[MPgrunt81]

Smokincivic,
Your talking to a fifteen year old who is trying to think of cheap ways to make his car (soon to be) faster. He's not trying to shoot you or burn your house down so cut him some slack. No need to call him names. Your the jackass. If you can tell him why it won't work then great but no need to be an asshole about it.

Trippz,
While your idea most likely wouldn't work keep trying. It takes a million bad ideas to come up with a few good ones. Don't let assholes get you down.

[ssvr6]

Originally posted by i-WERKS
The idea of Nitrous is that it's a gas in liquid form that is also flammable. Therefore it creates a bigger boom when ignited over normal air.

:rolleyes:


You have to be kidding me. This couldn't be FARTHER from the truth. N2O (Nitrous) is NOT flammable at all. Race grade nitrous even has a hint of sulfur in it to make it a little cheaper and stop people from "huffing" it. Medical grade (laughing gas) is pure and about $10 a pound as oppsoed to $2.XX for race grade.

The reason that N2O works is that it increases the rate at which the fuel combusts. This creates the power. That and it's naturally cold state when going from liquid to gas.



Steve

[ssvr6]

Oh yeah, here's an idea that I'm surprised no one has mentioned. Use the windshield wiper resevoir. Fill it with regular ice and water and spray the intake with it. You'd need a really fine mist head, but it's do able. While not as cold as dry ice, it's colder than the normal intake temps.

You just need to be careful about the water and your engine.

Steve

[i-WERKS]

Originally posted by ssvr6


:rolleyes:


You have to be kidding me. This couldn't be FARTHER from the truth. N2O (Nitrous) is NOT flammable at all. Race grade nitrous even has a hint of sulfur in it to make it a little cheaper and stop people from "huffing" it. Medical grade (laughing gas) is pure and about $10 a pound as oppsoed to $2.XX for race grade.

The reason that N2O works is that it increases the at which the fuel combusts. This creates the power. That and it's naturally cold state when going from liquid to gas.



Steve

I stand corrected.

[TrippZ]

To SmokinCivic - you're an asshole. what the hell is your problem? you're going to insult me for my ideas? you're a piece of shit you lowlife.

to everyone else, thanks for the ideas.

Keep in mind, I'm going to buy a 1979 Dodge Aspen and try a prototype (i guess you can say that because it pretty much is) on it. I'm also working on just doing field tests with it.

[TrippZ]

ahhh i remember this thread... crazy ole me...

now that i know more, im sure that forcing CO2 will cause some nice explosions going. haha. im such a fag.

smokincivic, i still think you're an asshole for that comment. you fuck.

[SiR Medic]

First of all...

TrippZ, as much as I admire your creativity and passion, before you go wasting time and money on a thing like this, finish your high school chemistry and take a B.Sc. in engineering. Because this "dry ice system" will simply not work.

Dry ice is CO2. CO2 is a retardant. (I'm not calling it names). You know that foamy stuff they put in certain fire extinguishers? That's CO2 foam.

CO2 is not flammable, and the process of seperating carbon from oxygen in CO2 is very energy intensive.

As far as cooling the intake, this does have a small amount of promise, however the gains involved will be VERY small. Cooling the air entering an engine only has significant effect on forced induction (turbo, supercharged) engines. This is why many turbos and superchargers also have intercoolers. The intercooler cools the compressed(and therefore heated) air before it enters the engine.

In naturally asperated engines, intercoolers are useless since the extra drag on the air as it enters the intercooler more than cancels out the small gain in air density from cooling it. Would you rather breath in cold air through a straw or warm air through your mouth?

I'm not trying to shoot ya down man, I'm just stating scientific fact. I do have a little fancy book learnin' in me (university level mechanical engineering, journalism, and paramedicine)

Don't give up on the ideas though! I remember in grade 9, my science teacher shot me down on my idea of a "W" engine... Almost exactly like one VW uses now.:cool:



http://www.lowb.org/alan/frink/images/Frink214.gif

"neh-HEY!"

[JruSi02]

Extreme cold and heat do not mix... I (and probably other people too) have found out the hard way. Ever take a really hot china/ceramic plate and stick it under cold water to cool it off not knowin better? When I was younger my dumbass did it and at first I started to hear a small cracking noise, next I see cracks appearing in the plate and BAM! sucker shattered and pieces flew everywhere in my kitchen, lol. Now I doubt that'll happen with an engine but its not a good thing to mix extremities. Thats how tornados occur from the hot air and cold air masses colliding (I think, lol). All Im sayin is theres a reason its called cool air intake and not ice cold air shoved up your engines lungs. (dont take any of this offensively for I am a dumbass)

[civicpimp]

Oh yeah, here's an idea that I'm surprised no one has mentioned. Use the windshield wiper resevoir. Fill it with regular ice and water and spray the intake with it. You'd need a really fine mist head, but it's do able. While not as cold as dry ice, it's colder than the normal intake temps.

I have seen this done on a couple of cars. Most recently a WRX. They swore it helped out a little bit.