03 civic si vs 03 vw gti 1.8t (comparison)

[turbocro]

This is my first post - i've been hanging round reading the forums for a couple of days

first off -let me say i'm not a euro snob or import nazi - i love all cars - japanese, domestic and european

i was very impressed with the civic si

interior: Civic is well though out, guages are easy to read and easy on the eyes, seating position is better than on the gti. in the civic i feel more on level with the road, whereas in the gti i am sitting back and feel a little lower (i am 6'2 240). Civic seats are amazing, taking the turns sharply, the seats held me firmly in place, much better than gti seats. As far as appearance, gti looks abit nicer, but not enough to smay me into a gti if this was the only difference). Gaps between panels and solidity were on par. Civic has better soundproofing of the interior and it is dead quiet even at redline. rear seating is comfortable, in fact more comfortable than the gti - it feels more spacious with a better more upright seating position than a gti. Cloth material feels better than standard gti's.
advantage: si

Exterior: I love them both. Gti gives me that retro mark 2 gti feel, but the Civic looks great (kinda reminds me of the older "boxy" civics of yesteryear. I would honestly be proud to pimp them both:D
advantage: even

Engine: Not truly a competition here - 1.8t wins hands down with gobs of torque in the low end and better horsepower. But the one thing i cannot deny is Honda's refinement of the 4cyl. - smooth straight to redline - with no drama or commotion. The 1,8t gets buzzy at higher RPMs. The si engine also pulls nicely and consistently to redline, whereas the gti starts to huff and puff around 5k rpms. Th si is also abit more responsive than the 1,8t (probably due to the slight turbo lag and drive-by-wire technology). I was abit dissapointed with the 6,800 redline in the si - not because of the si's of old, but because the engine felt like it had more in it. If the si had 20 more hp or a higher redline, the result may have been different.
advantage: gti

Transmission: Wow, smooth and fast. No contest for the civic here, CLutch is very light and grabs quickly. I got used to the "rally" shifter with the first 10 mins of driving and did not want to go back to anything else.the gti's shifter has lomnger throws and is substantially notchier with a heavbier clutch feel.
advantage: si

Steering: Si's feels light and is more assisted over the gti's, but with less roadfeel. In my opinion, not enough of a difference to call.
advantage: even

Suspension: I was test driving in jackson heights queens, si's suspension was much nicer than the gti's over potholes and rough road. Dampenening felt stiffer than the gti's with less bounciness of bumps, but without being overly harsh. Also, gti has no real options for camber adjustment. During tight turns, the chassis and suspension felt completely stable, with the seats giving extra lateral support which adds to the feeling of confidence while performing sharp turning manuvers, despite the squealing and commotion of the very crappy stock tires.
advantage: si (with better tires)

Braking: No contest - gti stock brakes will bring the car to a stop with no commotion. Car just squats and stops quickly. Si got very squirrely when slamming the braked at about 45-50 mph, with the rear tires slipping and sliding everywhere. gti brakes are sticky from the factory, but very effective. Gti comes stock with bigger rotos, but i'm not sure how big of an effect better tires would have made on the si.
advatage: gti

Overall i was very impressed with the civic si. I feel that as a package it is a great car and value. I don't think of the civic si as a "pocket rocket" but more of a civic highline. Great bang for the buck at 17k (incl. dest. charge), i would be happy to rock one.

[Gov_E]

i drive a GTi, i was looking at buying a EP for quite sometime.

The Si is a better choice for reliability, I've had the GTi in the shop more times that I can count on my fingers and toes.

However, the GTi has a certain 'get up and go' that the EP doesn't. I think I'll test drive the RSX-s, and see what I think about that bad boy.

[2k2_nbp_egg]

The two main things the GTi has over the Si in my opinion is the insane modability and stock form of the 1.8t over the k20a3, and those nice 17's. I've never driven a GTi so I wouldn't be able to say anything about the handling / braking, but I love them alot. I have however driven a chipped 1.8T jetta, and that alone was almost worth trading my car in for a 1.8T powerplant, but the Si has alot of potential, and more options are coming out for the chassis. Handling though...if it's anything like the jetta(which im sure its slightly better) then the EP definitely has an advantage.

Gov_E, what have you had your car in the shop for?

[Slapshot25]

It's all a matter of taste. My brother has a 98 GTi and he loves it. I had a 98 Civic Hatch that was great and now I have a 2003 Si. I haven't modded mine out. Just wheels, tires and suspension. He has put a lot of money into his GTi for performance purposes only. They're both nice cars. I prefer Honda mainly because of their track record on reliability and the price of the EP is so much better than the new GTi's. I'm always amazed at the way a lot of VW people are such Honda haters and vice versa. If you like your car, what should it matter? I could care less what your driving... I like my car so I'm happy! Ha:D

http://a1.cpimg.com/image/F9/BD/24051961-e05b-028001E0-.jpg

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/97/BA/23536023-d143-02580190-.jpg

[stephen]

Had a MKIV GTi. Got rid of it because it was hopelessly unreliable.

I'd wait for the MKV, it looks hot.

[BlairSpeed]

I believe the Si is an overall better car. If you spent $2k on each car for mods, you have a better car with the Honda (hondata, rims and springs).

[turbocro]

hah, forgot to put in the whole relaibility factor - but since i do mechanic work for a living - it's no big issue for me

i didn't bring modifications into the picture as it would be kind of an unfair fight - i currently drive an 02 1.8t gti. the whole reason i went on a test drive was because so many car reviews were dogging the si - i figured let me find out the truth for myself - and i was drooling to try that shifter in real life:D

i always loved japanese cars, but was never able to fit into them comfortably until now

17s on a Gti just slow it down, unless you go hardcore with volk or other lightweight rims

I like the Si's styling better than the mk5

[turbocro]

Originally posted by BlairSpeed
I believe the Si is an overall better car. If you spent $2k on each car for mods, you have a better car with the Honda (hondata, rims and springs).

just out of curiosity, better in what way? (Everyone has different priorities/preferences)

[blueiedgod]

Jetta/Golf/GTI still come with torsion beam rear suspension. I had a Jetta before, it was fine as a college car where it saw maybe 3000 miles a year. But when I graduated and started commuting to and from work daily, the Jetta could not take it (30 miles one way=60 miles a day X 5 days = 300 miles a week). I had replaced power steering pump and water pump a few times, the electricals were messing with me (what idiot of an engineer wires the a/c clutch in series with the a/c light???)

I had Hondas before getting Jetta, so going back to Honda was natural. A few Honda's later I got the Si. The Si handling is very reminicent of the Jetta. And reliability is somewhat reminicent of the VW. It has been to the dealer 5 times already. Even my salesman told me last time "Dave, I like you, but I hope I don't see here soon"

The reason there are not as many upgrades for the Si compare to the 1.8T is because it has been out for a long while. I think 1.8T debuted in the Corrado and base Passat. Besides, if you turbo Si it will eat 1.8t for lunch.

I have no hate for VW, it just did not fit my needs. The new Golf must look like the Si, because another person asked me yesterday if I drove the new Golf.

[turbocro]

Originally posted by blueiedgod
Jetta/Golf/GTI still come with torsion beam rear suspension. I had a Jetta before, it was fine as a college car where it saw maybe 3000 miles a year. But when I graduated and started commuting to and from work daily, the Jetta could not take it (30 miles one way=60 miles a day X 5 days = 300 miles a week). I had replaced power steering pump and water pump a few times, the electricals were messing with me (what idiot of an engineer wires the a/c clutch in series with the a/c light???)

I had Hondas before getting Jetta, so going back to Honda was natural. A few Honda's later I got the Si. The Si handling is very reminicent of the Jetta. And reliability is somewhat reminicent of the VW. It has been to the dealer 5 times already. Even my salesman told me last time "Dave, I like you, but I hope I don't see here soon"

The reason there are not as many upgrades for the Si compare to the 1.8T is because it has been out for a long while. I think 1.8T debuted in the Corrado and base Passat. Besides, if you turbo Si it will eat 1.8t for lunch.

I have no hate for VW, it just did not fit my needs. The new Golf must look like the Si, because another person asked me yesterday if I drove the new Golf.

No hating here either bro

i just like looking at other people's points of view - i try to put myself in their shoes

as far as upgrades go, it doesn't have to do as much as with how long the engine (1.8t) has been around - but it's pretty easy to turn up the boost. The 1.8t debuted in the 97 audi a4 and 98 passat. the version in the gtis and jettas debuted in 2000 (US).


The funny thing is i think the Si is closer in form to the original mk1 and 2 gtis than the mk4 is.

what kind of power gains are there from the hondata upgrade? And is anyone running a turbo Si in NYC? I would definitely like to check one out.:D

[LASI02]

I think most comparisons come down to buyer preference, and cost. I prefer a ferarri but I can't afford it, I can afford a cavilier but I don't prefer it, I prefer a Honda and I can afford it. Plus SI owners don't really fit into a buying category. I think its people who see the car for its potential as a blank slate. As more and more mods become availible the sky is the limit as to what can be done to it, as with other cars that are relatively popular such as the Gti. I bought my SI because its fun to drive and I enjoy everyone asking me if its fast or not. I just say no but strangely no one believes me, except for the guy in the Evo.

Ace

Oh and its good to see some people in here with cars other than SI's, gives us a chance to see people opinions other than people who already have Si's.

[jaydub]

I traded in my 00 Jetta VR6 for my Si. I won't buy another VW. After three of them, I've learned my lesson.

[Slapshot25]

Originally posted by US_Si
2.0T? Doesn't look like a VR6-T.

Yes, it is a 2.0T. He'd be able to tell you a lot more about the upgrades in detail but he's added a turbo, etc. and has run the 1/4 mile at 14.4 (99mph) with 13lbs of boost. That was on stock tires with some tire spin.

http://a9.cpimg.com/image/CD/48/24095949-89ef-015000FC-.jpg

[BlairSpeed]

Originally posted by turbocro
just out of curiosity, better in what way? (Everyone has different priorities/preferences)

Well, if you take both the 1.8t golf and the si in stock form, each have their own advantages or disadvantages. (as stated in first post)If you then spend $2000 on upgrades for each car, I believe that the Si would be an overall better car, meaning that although the Golf might have better tires, stronger engine at first, after upgrades, the Honda would be better.

[2k2_nbp_egg]

lol jesus slapshot i just can't get over your avatar. Anyway, if you wanna go N/A then you can always swap a type s or type r engine into your car, see ports thread a few down about that :shockm:

If you wanna go boost then the stock engine can more than double it's WHP w/ a kit. But then again, the 1.8T can take upped boost and nitrous like it's candy....around what WHP does shit start to break on it? I've always been told around 500 by VW enthusiasts, but then again most of the ones around here don't care for honda owners so....

Anyway, i'm sure that the brakes are better on the GTI because all euro cars emphasize brakes alot more than shitty honda brakes, but i suppose you're right about those pretty stock 17's. How much do they weigh in a piece?

Handling wise, stock yes the monster truck ride height on the ep hurts it tremendously, and there it does stack up to a stock jetta. But once you begin to mod, it's clearly evident that the ep is the better handler. Once my ex got springs on her chipped 1.8T jetta it was still floaty like a boat. All i needed was springs on the EP to make it handle worlds better, and then on top of that the struts and anti sway bars w/ azenis make it hug the road like they're lovers.

Anyway, the MK4 is a more diverse platform anyway. Even though the EP does come w/ a 5 door model, there's only a select few small 4 cylinder n/a engine stock, and all eps are FWD. There's n/a mk4s, turbo mk4's, 6 cylinder mk4s, AWD mk4's...list freakin' goes on. I applaud VW for making such a diverse platform, but I don't applaud them for packing so much goddamn weight into their cars. a 3000+lb FWD hatch just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me :( The S3 on the other hand....

[Slapshot25]

Ha! Thanks 2k2_nbp_egg... When I saw that picture I couldn't resist. She's purrty but a little messy evidently!:D

[carbonSI]

i dont understand how the v-dubbs suposedly have way more power/torque... i havent ran a v-vub yet thats put more than 1 car on me, and speaking of 02-03 gti's. i got to run one yesterday on the freeway, it had neuspeed stickers, tenzo R sinko wheels, 17's im pretty sure, and thats all i could figure out, all i have is a filter, and we dropped third about 4-5 times, and it was basically even. i just kept hearing his bov, as i was in vtec :D weird how that works.. but the car looked wayy hot, euro stylin is sick, but as for the "way more power?" i find that way off... -mike

[jaydub]

ugh "in vtec" like it's some magic turbo boost. ROFL

[carbonSI]

errr.... thats not how i meant it... i mean that everytime his turbo would spool, my vtec would kick in, keepin me there with him... and, the cam changeover is just fine with me if its keepin me with boosted automobiles... anyways, nice try on bein an ass :D -mike

[turbocro]

Originally posted by BlairSpeed
Well, if you take both the 1.8t golf and the si in stock form, each have their own advantages or disadvantages. (as stated in first post)If you then spend $2000 on upgrades for each car, I believe that the Si would be an overall better car, meaning that although the Golf might have better tires, stronger engine at first, after upgrades, the Honda would be better.

sorry if i was unclear, but better for what purpose.

let me give you an example - my car - i'm trying for around 200 whp 240torque, stiffer shocks and rear sway - basically more in "touring" class kinda car - stock turbo (so i can keep the low end grunt) but with a lil extra to keep it interesting on twisty backroads and the occasional trip to lime rock. Not the best suspension for auto-x, but better for road racing and high speed highway and backroad trips.

whenever i mod, i do so for a purpose - what are your Si goals?

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by jaydub
ugh "in vtec" like it's some magic turbo boost. ROFL

Considering turbos have been around for nearly a HUNDRED years, and vtec only since the '91 NSX, one is obviously more difficult to accomplish than the other. But, yeah, it's not magic. Then again, neither is a turbo.

[turbocro]

Originally posted by 2k2_nbp_egg

If you wanna go boost then the stock engine can more than double it's WHP w/ a kit. But then again, the 1.8T can take upped boost and nitrous like it's candy....around what WHP does shit start to break on it? I've always been told around 500 by VW enthusiasts, but then again most of the ones around here don't care for honda owners so....

Anyway, i'm sure that the brakes are better on the GTI because all euro cars emphasize brakes alot more than shitty honda brakes, but i suppose you're right about those pretty stock 17's. How much do they weigh in a piece?

Handling wise, stock yes the monster truck ride height on the ep hurts it tremendously, and there it does stack up to a stock jetta. But once you begin to mod, it's clearly evident that the ep is the better handler. Once my ex got springs on her chipped 1.8T jetta it was still floaty like a boat. All i needed was springs on the EP to make it handle worlds better, and then on top of that the struts and anti sway bars w/ azenis make it hug the road like they're lovers.


hah, you can break stuff with just a chip as an add on - all the extra torque plus trannies usually leads to tranny problems if not driven correctly (or at least a burnt clutch), motormounts

500hp from 1,8 liters of displacement - possible, but unless its tuned by some kind of professional, it will be slow with a limited powerband (2k rpms). a 1.8t can safely do about 260-300 whp while having a meaty powerband, but at the expense of torque

the 17s are probably somewhere around 24-25 lbs - and i'm not against the bling bling, unless it slows you down, which 17s will do (again, unless theyre super light)

EP is the better handler without a doubt - must be fun as hell at an auto-x. The only thing to be done on a golf or jetta is stiff ass springs, stiff shocks and a rear sway. it helps alot, but at the compromise of ride quality. I feel the EP does a better job of using the frame rigidity in conjuction with the suspension around the corners.

with a gti, a rear sway bar will make the ability to induceslight oversteer in the corners, does an EP react the same?

[darkvibe]

Originally posted by Gov_E
the GTi has a certain 'get up and go' that the EP doesn't.

It's called a turbocharger :D

[turbocro]

Originally posted by carbonSI
i dont understand how the v-dubbs suposedly have way more power/torque... i havent ran a v-vub yet thats put more than 1 car on me, and speaking of 02-03 gti's. i got to run one yesterday on the freeway, it had neuspeed stickers, tenzo R sinko wheels, 17's im pretty sure, and thats all i could figure out, all i have is a filter, and we dropped third about 4-5 times, and it was basically even. i just kept hearing his bov, as i was in vtec :D weird how that works.. but the car looked wayy hot, euro stylin is sick, but as for the "way more power?" i find that way off... -mike

well, first off, if you can't drive horsepower or torque won't help you - stickers don't make a car fast:p
we have alot of local guys running anywhere from 15s to 13.4 in the 1/4 mile (i'm talking all bolt ons, no turbo kits/nos included)


BOV on a 1.8t makes it run like crap - the boost pressure system is closed, releasing unwanted boost back through the intake to be metered by the maf sensor, a bov will route that air outside the system and cause the car to run rich - all show, no go

[s to the i]

I own the SI and test drive cars for fun once in a while. when i drove the gti 1.8t i liked almost everything about my car better. to me the only advantage is the 1.8t is better for modifying.

[carbonSI]

turbo, haha i know stickers dont make you fast, i must come off sounding like some kid all about rice, i forgot to write that the neuspeed stickers meant he had a drop and some suspension. but yea, bov does slow you down without a modded up engine, lettin pressure out that dosent need to be can only hurt. but even then,vr6's cant put a car on me either.. eery v-dub i ran had mods, while i was stock, usually a exhaust, and a intak, or just a filter, no one with a chip yet tho... im not over here bragging, just a little curious to see if anyone else runs with em.. -mike

[carbonSI]

us_si, and you are right, but our other cam kicks in at 4600.. and while im in vtec from 4600+, his bov would go off after is tubo spooled, i hope i made that a little more clear... -mike

[carbonSI]

umm, we (the ep owners) have the wimpy ivtec. the rsx, and the type s have the full changeover at onetime, while we have one kickin in at 2200, and the rest kickin in at 4600, someone let me know if ive been wrng this whole time, and ill be round... -mike

[2k2SiAutoXer]

carbon- you are half right. the type s does have the ''full changeover'' the base rsx has the same setup as us. Which leasd me to--why does everyone say they miss the old vtec like in the old si? Its not like the sudden jump makes more power than a smooth transition. Ill take vtec that changes over smooth to a vtec motor that has an abrupt change any day. Provided both engines produce the same #'s

--Tom

[2k2SiAutoXer]

one more thing.... the only advantage to the quick change in vtec that i can see is the sound, when it kiks in on an older si or type s that is the sweetest sound. But sound does not get you everywhere. Just think of all the kids we laugh at with the coffe can mufflers that you can hear buzzing from miles away, just to fing out that its a z24
.

--Tom

[stephen]

Perhaps an EP to MK V comparison will be more relevant.


http://www.k-series.com/Images/H_CIVIC_04_R/H_CIVIC_04_R2.jpg
http://vwvortex.rely.net/gallery/albums//Motorshows/International%20Auto%20Shows/Frankfurt%20Auto%20Show%202003/Volkswagen/Golf%20V%20GTI%20Concept/014.jpg

[BarracksSi]

It took me this long to notice the black "moustache" around the VW's front license plate, and now I can't ignore it... lol

Who cares, they're both kickass cars that can still get a pretty steep speeding ticket or lose a fight with a moose.

[carbonSI]

2k2, are you sure the base rsx has the "same" set up? im pretty sure that it has the full changeover, just a crappier version, but then again, i could be wrong, all i do know, is that the base isnt the exactly the same set up. not too positive what the difference is, if im wrong about my guess, but im pretty sure... -mike

[blueiedgod]

Originally posted by stephen
Perhaps an EP to MK V comparison will be more relevant.


http://www.k-series.com/Images/H_CIVIC_04_R/H_CIVIC_04_R2.jpg
http://vwvortex.rely.net/gallery/albums//Motorshows/International%20Auto%20Shows/Frankfurt%20Auto%20Show%202003/Volkswagen/Golf%20V%20GTI%20Concept/014.jpg

No wonder I have been asked if I drove the new Golf.

[Gov_E]

wow, this thread took off - I haven't been online in a few days. . . I guess I'll chime in on a few things -

The GTi can be pushed to 200 horses, 180tq with a 400$ chip. To get those kind of numbers with an EP would cost quite a bit more.

Reliability is a HUGE concern for these cars, which is why I'm on this page in the first place. I'm looking at a RSX-S right now, I'll decide around January sometime I think.

Not trying to sound like an a$$, but there's just no way an EP can keep up with a GTi stock for stock, 1.8T or VR6. I finally got a chance to prove this about a week ago between Tampa and Sarasota, if you're on here silver Si - speak up.

Any VW is torquey as hell, even the TDI has more torque than horses.

uhh, those are some scatterbrained thoughts, but there you go.

If you want to see what the GTi/Jetta/Beetle can REALLY do, check out www.hpamotorsports.com . 500 HP, AWD!!!:eek:

[audomatik]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/p9e2842010e6e2377e30aa55b5680c481/faf9746f.jpg
here is my friends new ride... sick as shit, already chipped, dropped, wheels, etc. had it for about a week and a half. mods not pictured. this kid is sick with VDubs. Had a 1998 GTI, NA for a while tearing shit up, decided to supercharge it. Approximately 310 hp to the wheels. Smoked a new Subaru STi. Mustangs were afraid to run em. Hilarious shit. Sold the supercharger and then realized his car was slow again and traded it in for the new 20th anniversary pictured above. Still has a 1991 Corrado G60. Sitting pretty on H&Rs and a set of BBS wheels. Before that had a 1990 Jetta Coupe sittin on Koni Yellows, a rare as shit set of BBS wheels (six sets in the whole US) and before that a black Rabbit (forget what was done to that) As much as he loves his VWs he always gives me and my friends props for our civics. When I got my car he was really feeling the rally shifter and he loved the way the stock exhaust looked. I couldn't stop staring at it in the parking lot of Sheetz... haha...

http://www.chadblock.com/images/awe_s4farside.jpg
just figured i'd throw this in here too since this thread was getting a little euro.. haha. 500+ hp to the wheels. RS4 engine swap, look those brakes, look at those wheels, look at the 6" fender flares... check out more at Chad's S4/RS4 (http://www.chadblock.com/s4project.htm)

[Gov_E]

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/images/gt6/golftwin.gif



http://www.hpamotorsports.com/images/golfbig/DSCN0713.jpg

http://www.hpamotorsports.com/images/golfbig/Golf_4_rear3.jpg

as long as we're posting euro pics - here's that 500HP MONSTER

[carbonSI]

gov_e, your wrong about your keeping up with stock for stock statment, ive ran quite a few golfs, gti's, and vr6's, and not one put more than 1 car length on me, they are all modded, and i beat all but one, most of them had an, intake/filter, and exhaust, you can call bull on it if you want, i know how all the runs went down, im not talkin sh*t about v-dubbs, that was my original choice before my ep, but the only one i could have got was a 4 door auto 1.8t, :p and got taken for a test drive in my ep, and got it with the quickness. but, i know the potential about the v-dubbs, but stock for stock? i aint scared :D and if someone in south carolina has a stock, or basic modded gti/vr6, id be glad to have a friendly run, just for proving purposes, but im about to go. ill be round -mike

[turbocro]

Originally posted by carbonSI
gov_e, your wrong about your keeping up with stock for stock statment, ive ran quite a few golfs, gti's, and vr6's, and not one put more than 1 car length on me, they are all modded, and i beat all but one, most of them had an, intake/filter, and exhaust, you can call bull on it if you want, i know how all the runs went down, im not talkin sh*t about v-dubbs, that was my original choice before my ep, but the only one i could have got was a 4 door auto 1.8t, :p and got taken for a test drive in my ep, and got it with the quickness. but, i know the potential about the v-dubbs, but stock for stock? i aint scared :D and if someone in south carolina has a stock, or basic modded gti/vr6, id be glad to have a friendly run, just for proving purposes, but im about to go. ill be round -mike

bro, i feel you - i beat every single schoolbus that tries to pass me:eek:


j/k

just curious, in your "runs" were they from a roll, dead stop, highway or holy crap i hit the spped governjor runs?

[audomatik]

my friend with the 20th ann. said my civic was faster then his car. but i can't run with it now. its modded far beyond my car. just adding my two cents

[carbonSI]

turbocro, most of the people i ran were my friends, but we ran from a stop mostly, but we dropped, freeway, everything, pretty much everyway possible, because, after wed run one way, they would say, allright, lets do it this way, and so on, and so on, and it usually ends in "damn, im supposed to start walkin at the beginning of third cause of my torque" and to be honest with you, i didnt think id be able to keep up with a gti, because one is turbo stock, and the other is a v6 in a hatch :D but actually, 1.8t's usually give me the better run. im actually set up with a 1.8t in the near future, the guy had just got it a little while ago, and its "broken in" now, so hes "out to get me" its a 03 smoke grey 1.8t, its way too sick... id have taken that thing if i had the chance but at 22k, i think im gonna pass :D.. got my EP for 15600 otd and lovin every second of it, but anyways, hope i cleared things up a little bit, oh, and ive never ran anyone top speed, in fact,i havent even tried to top mine out yet. ill be round -mike

[turbocro]

i'm not surprised actually, people can magazine all they want - in real life - the si is more responsive and easier to drive than a vw - imho

e.g. - as far as the 1,8t guys go with all bolt ons, there is enough power to get you into the mid 13s on the drag strip - but only the select few that can really drive and launch well will achieve it

i've lost plenty of races peelin my crappy stock tires or bogging my launch off the line

the vr6 is a sweet engine to drive, decent performance, smooth and sounds real nice - but nothing to talk about unless you turbo it

funny thing is i wouldve gotten the si if i had gotten your price - in nyc - you can get an si for 17k + ttl

gti w/sunroof goes for 18 + ttl - but has better brakes stock from the factory and the better power - for 1k difference, it didnt seem worth it to me

another fun fact - the si is only about 150-200 lbs lighter than a gti - loaded gti weighs in at 2916 - si is 2744 - if i remember the figures correctly

any guys with turbo kits yet with dynos? Just curious to take a look at the powerband.