You've been handed a brand new EP and $10K... Your mission, build a track worthy car.

[droideka]

I figure that you long-term owners have a helluva lot more experience than I with the EP and K20A3 and might find this exercise fun. If you were hired to do this job, what components would you use and why? The guidelines are simple. You've got $10K to spend on the car to make it a weekend roadcourse racer. Ricey bodykits are not included. What is mandatory is the following:

1. No larger than 16" wheels - choose your favs
2. Big brake kit for the front - must fit under 16s AND support Cobalt Friction/HAWK compounds
3. Full suspension upgrade - go for it!
4. Partial roll cage concentrating on the hatch area.
5. Competition seating - Doesn't have to be full-blown racing seats, but very supportive and can handle harnesses
6. Need to remove 250 to 300 pounds
7. Need to find a way to get 220 NA horses at the crank. Shooting for 11.5 lb./HP. NO FULL ENGINE SWAPS. Retain the 5-speed as well
8. RELIABLE! - Car will be pounded on 2-3 times a month.

Alright, benchrancers, give me your best ideas!

[STP03BlueSI]

OK here we go!!

Rims- O.Z. Racing SUPERLEGGERA 5 kg in 15(Why Lightweight and strong)200per rim. 800total

Brakes - Brembo Big brakes, Very good company. 1000 total

Susp - Tein Racing struts, springs, and elect adjust. Also Neuspeed braces. 2000 total

Roll cage - Well i have a welder where i work...so 100 bucks for steal. 200Total(have to pay the guy)

Seats - Recaro Type R Seats with Sparco harness. 2000total

Remove to loose weight- Rear seats, glove box, spare tire, Windshield washer bottle, all wiper blades, components from dash, remove sunroof.
FREEBIE!!!!

Engine- RSX Type-S head swap, and Turbo setup. 3500

Clutch - Advance Clutch System - 2000

Damn that was a quick 10k..

[BlackKnight 03]

Umm I would start with some ideas but you won't be able to get 220 N/A at the crank w/o a full engine swap.

[droideka]

Originally posted by BlackKnight 03
Umm I would start with some ideas but you won't be able to get 220 N/A at the crank w/o a full engine swap.

Really? Not even with some internal work and a K24 head swap? Getting to the 11.5 lb/HP is critical in me making this move. I don't want blow over half of the budget on an engine swap. Like I said, I really don't know shit when it come to making power from the K-Series engines.

[Quicksilver]

Originally posted by droideka
Really? Not even with some internal work and a K24 head swap? Getting to the 11.5 lb/HP is critical in me making this move. I don't want blow over half of the budget on an engine swap. Like I said, I really don't know shit when it come to making power from the K-Series engines.

It'd be a lot easier to get a RSX-S engine (K20A2) and go the bolt-on route, than it would to do all you could to the Si engine (K20A3). Plus it'll run to 8600 rpms with Hondata. The RSX-S engine would only run you around $2k-3k once you sell the Si's engine. Well worth it instead of port/polish, high compression pistons, cam, and all the bolt-ons. Even then, you'd still be lucky to get 220 crank hp.

Also, it's better if you drop the weight for track. You could probably drop it down to around 2300-2400lbs with a little work. Including STP03BlueSI's ideas: AC delete, sound deadening, various panels, stereo/speakers, rear wiper/motor, and power window/lock mechanisms. Lightening components that cost money: racing seats, carbon fiber hood, lexan rear windows, lightweight wheels, aftermarket brakes, lightweight dry cell battery (moved to the trunk, of course), and titanium exhaust. I'm sure there's more, but that's a good start.

Onto some of the other requirements: Tein Type Flex coilovers, Wilwood Big Brake upgrade, SSR competiton 16", some type of Sparco or Recaro non-adjustable seats.

[TrippZ]

Yeah I seriously doubt that you can get the k20 to 220 NA at the crank without blowing that whole 10k on it :confused:

[audomatik]

what about carbon fiber rear hatch with lexan glass... there is like 50 pounds right there... carbon hood, front fenders and bumper... i'd say another 10-15 pounds. all the freebie stuff, seats, carpet, console, dash, every seat but drivers, all plastic, door panels, etc... you're looking at a total of 200-240 right there with the freebies and the expensive stuff... i'd go with rsx head swap, set of brembo big brakes, 16" supperlaggeras w/ falken azenis, bolt-ons, hondata and a full cage from a local shop. most likely around 10 grand, maybe a little more

[Dunrick]

As for 220 @ the crank w/ a k20a3

hondata/cai/header that replaces cat/catback exhaust 2.5" all the way back/hondata heatshield/overbore tb/higher compression headgasket/higher compression pistons/aem fuel rail/better injectors/more agressive cams (if they come out)

that will probably only get you around 190 whp maybe 200 whp...which might add up to 220 @ the crank.....

It would be smarter if your staying n/a to just sell the a3 and get the k20a2...that can easily get 220 @ the crank...with just hondata and a intake and exhuast. Plus it will have 8600 revs versus 7700

k20a3 isn't the best n/a platform...only because the a2 is much better built for n/a tuning.

Good luck if your really going to try this...I would like to get my a3 around the same amount of power...should be a fun task imo...if not, i'll just get an a2 one day...

[bloodzombie]

Originally posted by audomatik
what about carbon fiber rear hatch with lexan glass... there is like 50 pounds right there... carbon hood, front fenders and bumper... i'd say another 10-15 pounds. all the freebie stuff, seats, carpet, console, dash, every seat but drivers, all plastic, door panels, etc... you're looking at a total of 200-240 right there with the freebies and the expensive stuff... i'd go with rsx head swap, set of brembo big brakes, 16" supperlaggeras w/ falken azenis, bolt-ons, hondata and a full cage from a local shop. most likely around 10 grand, maybe a little more

You'd blow a good chunk of money just on carbon fiber pieces for tiny gains.

[anjapower]

Originally posted by droideka
Really? Not even with some internal work and a K24 head swap? Getting to the 11.5 lb/HP is critical in me making this move. I don't want blow over half of the budget on an engine swap. Like I said, I really don't know shit when it come to making power from the K-Series engines.

That was actually my reply but posted under my friends name...

Why would you do a k24 head swap?? Unless you mean the TSX head?? That would be quite costly. It would be way cheaper (and easier to find) to do the RSX-S head swap. But if you want N/A power, really the best bet would be to get either a k24 out of an Accord with a type-S head and bolt on the Si tranny or just go for the factory reliability and get a RSX-S/R engine swap.

If I was in your position this is what I'd do:

1. Yank the a3, swap in a type s motor with hondata and intake. Total investment ~3000 bucks (provided you sell the a3 for 2k, buy the type S motor for about 4k, and do the work yourself or get it done for CHEAP).

2. Get the Tein Flex or JIC FLT-A2 full-coilovers. The JIC isn't a direct boltup though. This will probably run you about 1600 bucks.

3. Get 16" Volk CE28N's with 215/45/16 Falken Azenis. Best buy for the money. Very light wheels and very grippy tires. About 1700 dollars w/ mounting, balancing, shipping.

4. Get the Wilwood 4-piston front brake upgrade from DocofMind on ephatch for about 800 bucks.

5. Gut the interior, take out all the seats and put in a racing drivers seat...don't know too much about prices on these, never looked into them.


I think all that would run you about 8-9k total with a very conservative estimate. And you still have a 1,000 dollar safety zone. This is the best way to make your car track-worthy IMO. And this car will take lickins and keep on tickin':tongue:

[Zero Three Si]

Is this a real project? Or is this all hypothetical?

[STP03BlueSI]

I see no one has upgraded the Clutch...that is the one thing he said.
8. RELIABLE! - Car will be pounded on 2-3 times a month...you cant beat on the Stock Clutch with out a upgrade.

[RacingCivicSi02]

You guys watch to Much Monster Garage. LoL :D :D

[BlasTech]

My question is, what kind of track racing are you going to do? Are you considering Honda Challenge, and HPDEs? Those guys burn through at least $1000 per race in consumables and expenses. :eek: If that's what you want to do, seriously consider getting sponsorships.

For auto-x, well, the Si is a great STS car, but it would take some radical work to make it a competitive car in the more modified classes.

Do you plan to trailer the car?... as in make it not street legal? Its sounds expensive, but actually, you no longer have to pay insurance on it. ;)

I dont know what to say about adding engine power, but I wouldnt invest in a carbon fiber hood for wieght savings, unless it was secondhand for like $100 or a trade. The wieght-savings-per-dollar just isnt there. BE SHREWD, and you'll find better deals.

My advice on dropping weight without dropping cash:

-remove AC (that would suck in Dallas) and controls
-remove cruise control
-remove stereo, speakers, rear seats, all interior carpet and plastic, rear seatbelt hardware
-remove sound tar
-remove both front seats (install aluminum racing seat, the lightest ones are pretty cheap and uncomfortable),
-remove rear washer (make a silicone plug with caulk and ice),
-remove sunroof and motor (make a sheet metal plug)
-make lexan rear quarter windows

Those things should drop around 300 lbs or more, add some lighter wheels, brakes (from DocOfMind), IHE, and you'll drop another 50-100 lbs... thats about 2400 gross wieght, with 160 hp makes 15 lb-per-hp.

Dont forget, for reliability, you'll want some upgraded cooling systems for sure.

So if you really want to do this, learn to DIY and fabricate and save your $$ for tires and brakes and transmission rebuilds, and check out this board: http://honda-tech.com/zeroforum?id=19

Good Luck!

[BlasTech]

You gotta read this thread, too:
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=638818

[j spek chucks]

motor-- TSX comes with lsd (keep the 5 speed if you want i wouldnt)
send it off the golden eagle get bored to 2.6 with 11:1
send head to PYR to get built about $5000

suspension-- RSX 5 lug with stock rims and stock bracks
JIC majic coilovers
a piller brace,srr lower control armes,front and rear
strut towers,rear sway,Z10 bar(i think its in the works)
About $5000



The stoch si seats shoud be good

[oldschoolimport]

Originally posted by BlasTech

-remove AC (that would suck in Dallas) and controls
-remove cruise control
-remove stereo, speakers, rear seats, all interior carpet and plastic, rear seatbelt hardware
-remove sound tar
-remove both front seats (install aluminum racing seat, the lightest ones are pretty cheap and uncomfortable),
-remove rear washer (make a silicone plug with caulk and ice),
-remove sunroof and motor (make a sheet metal plug)
-make lexan rear quarter windows

I did this to a crx to drag race, I filled up 2 50 gallon trash cans. we stripped every wire that did not make the car start or run. believe me when I say that there is weight savings to be had. the sound tar was a bitch though. definitely gut the bitch.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by oldschoolimport
I did this to a crx to drag race, I filled up 2 50 gallon trash cans. we stripped every wire that did not make the car start or run. believe me when I say that there is weight savings to be had. the sound tar was a bitch though. definitely gut the bitch.

This begs the question: Why would you do this to a brand-new car, instead of a 12-year-old CRX?

[oldschoolimport]

you raise a damn good point mr dobbs. why would anyone do this shit to a new car rather than a 12 year old.... HEY wait a frickin' minute. you diggin on me man!!!!:D
anyway, the crx was a freebie and the thread said, "you were handed", so is it a freebie too. thats the reason, its a freebie, why not.

[Z-49]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dunrick
[B]As for 220 @ the crank w/ a k20a3....
that will probably only get you around 190 whp maybe 200 whp...which might add up to 220 @ the crank.....[B]

It would be smarter if buy a S2000.


why do you want to stay n/a? drop a turbo, gut the car, c/f what you can, and why do you need seats? you are only going straight or are you autoXing?

[03silverEP]

1-rota wheels 16" 14lbs. $500 for rims +250 for kumho's or +400 for S03's

2-KW coilovers (full adj.) $1600

3-wilwood brake kit (new calipers and rotors) $600, upgrade the back w/ slotted rotors and better pads

4-front upper strut bar $99 and front lower x-brace $150 (neuspeed) don't need the rear if you're getting a roll cage

5-comptech makes an adjustable rear sway bar($550), if you're auto-x this will prove useful

6-j's engine damper ($250)

7-seats: sparco racer fixed composite bucket (ie no recline) $299 each

8- hawk 5pt. cam lock harnesses ($150 each) (sparco, momo, or takata would be $300 each....)

9-CF hood and hatch $1000

10- strip interior free

11-toda lightweight flywheel $400

12- hondata computer $600

13- larger bore throttle body $300

14- I/H/E $1000

15- rsx-s head swap $600

16- thin head gasket (up compression) $40

17-toda cams and valvesprings $1400

that's right about $10700 (just parts, labor++)

establish a good suspension setup, drop some weight, improve your engine's breathing and power (head swap is a good idea, k20a3's don't have the power potential of an a2 as we only have i-vtec on the intake camshaft) I mentioned some lesser priced manufactures in here (rota, KW, wilwood, hawk) because the popular "JDM" merch. is expensive w/no real diff. in quality it's just for the 'style', function before form...good luck