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View Full Version : Getting colder air into turbo intake - Ideas??



esmith13
11-04-2003, 09:06 AM
ANy ideas on how to get colder air into the intake in this picture below?? With the turbo manifold just beneath it, it gets REAL HOT air sucked into it now. This is the Cybernation Kit, and it is intercooled - so laugh at me at your will if you think this is not needed @ all... I just assumed the colder it is to start, the colder it gets when intercooled. Colder/denser air makes EP go Zoom-Zoom!! :)

here's the pic:

http://65.168.247.56/ephatch/turbo/image2.jpg


Thanks,

Eric

sniperSI
11-04-2003, 09:25 AM
Well i do not believe cold air is that great of a deal with a turbo, because when it spools up its compressing the air and the more you compress it, the hotter it gets, so Cold air or not its not going to make that much of a difference, hence N20 sprayer for IC.

sniperSI
11-04-2003, 09:26 AM
so tell us about the turbo, give some reviews.

esmith13
11-04-2003, 09:29 AM
#1: When you compress air, it gets COLDER, not hotter.

#2: Turbo ROCKS!!!! :D -- ask me questions and I'll answer them...

Eric

Jpax
11-04-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by esmith13
#1: When you compress air, it gets COLDER, not hotter.

#2: Turbo ROCKS!!!! :D -- ask me questions and I'll answer them...

Eric

Hes talking about compressing it in the engine, maybe you can make a longer tube that gose in the fender like the CAI do?

esmith13
11-04-2003, 09:44 AM
hmmmm, good idea, pax, but i'm not sure their's room for that :(

Eric

sniperSI
11-04-2003, 09:45 AM
Yes, so I figure since your pounding air into the engine, a 5 or 10 degree differance in intake temperature wont make much of a difference in speed.

Check this out:

http://www.turbo-kits.com/honda_fuel_management.html


Just some interesting reads

So is this:

http://www.twinturbostang.com/turbos/


just basic turbo information.



Ok now the questions

What kinda throttle postin do u use in 1st gear, Can you take off quick if you decide to just start from a dead stop in 2nd or 3rd?

How about moving thru the gears, can you floor it or is it too much power?

HOw fast do you move thru the gears now:?

myeverlovinsir
11-04-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by esmith13
#1: When you compress air, it gets COLDER, not hotter.

#2: Turbo ROCKS!!!! :D -- ask me questions and I'll answer them...

Eric

Au contrair, when you compress air it gets hotter. When it expands it
gets colder. If you have ever let the air out of a compressed air cylinder, or punched a hole in a aerosol can, you know how cold it gets. ;)

Si3
11-04-2003, 09:49 AM
dyno #'s please.

-aj-

andy
11-04-2003, 10:28 AM
On WRXs, CAI's do little to nothing on a dyno. There may be some
real life (i.e. driving on an open road) gains, but they are minimal
at best.

However, a CAI/better intake would allow more "fresh" air to enter
the intake, because ideally you want colder air, simply because there
is more of it (i.e. it's like driving on a hot summer day all of
the time). I don't know if you're going to see much of a difference with
a new intake solution, but a couple ideas are a bigger intercooler (to
help combat any sort of heat soak), the nitrous IC sprayer (as someone
mentioned) or a new hood with vents. You could also try to fabricate
some plumbing from the grill/wheel wheel to that area.

Tenacious G
11-04-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by myeverlovinsir
Au contrair, when you compress air it gets hotter. When it expands it
gets colder. If you have ever let the air out of a compressed air cylinder, or punched a hole in a aerosol can, you know how cold it gets. ;)

werd ... that's exactly the example i was going to use.

2QK4U ALLWAYS
11-04-2003, 12:44 PM
AIR GETS HOTTER WHEN COMPRESSED
Anyways your problem is you want more air, not necessarly colder you need a hood scoop connected to the turbo or the filter therefore the faster you drive the more volume of air gets pushed in:eek:
The answer is VOLUME

esmith13
11-04-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Si3
dyno #'s please.

-aj-

EPhatchGirl and I will be planning a dyno day together within a month. Were both runnin the C.N. Stage I Kit. Dyno #s WILL get posted when we get them, I promise :D

I'll be heading to the track on Nov 14th for the big east Coast EP meet. Surfsi and I will be runnin the CN EPs. Unfortunately, we both have LESS than adaquate rubber and both are on stock clutch right now, so we'll see what happens...

Eric

4g63dsm
11-04-2003, 12:45 PM
if you are running an air to air intercooler it shouldn't matter thats the air being inducted by the filter is hot; since that air air gonna be pumped through the turbo, then the ic pipe system and back to the intake manifold.

esmith13
11-04-2003, 12:46 PM
OK, OK....

I know when I'm beaten ... and wrong....

I was wrong about the compressed air temp thingy..... sorry!!!


JEEZ...


Eric

esmith13
11-04-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by 4g63dsm
if you are running an air to air intercooler it shouldn't matter thats the air being inducted by the filter is hot; since that air air gonna be pumped through the turbo, then the ic pipe system and back to the intake manifold.

Yes, that is exactly how it is plummed....

Eric

sniperSI
11-04-2003, 02:09 PM
Now anwser my quetions.!

fsugatorbait
11-04-2003, 03:06 PM
Hey E, maybe look into the mugen or buddy club carbon fiber hoods for their scoop placement could be cut open to help disapate the hot air and allow fresher air to enter into the engine bay via sort of a vaccum like the evo uses.

esmith13
11-04-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by sniperSI
Ok now the questions

What kinda throttle postin do u use in 1st gear, Can you take off quick if you decide to just start from a dead stop in 2nd or 3rd?

How about moving thru the gears, can you floor it or is it too much power?

HOw fast do you move thru the gears now:?

Throttle in 1st gear is about 30-40% if I DON'T I BURN RUBBER AND THE CLUTCH!!

You cannot take off quick in ANY gear with OEM Clutch and shitty tires.... It works like this... Below 2500rpm, the car drives STOCK - no boost (maybe 1/2 a pound)... If you feather or dump the clutch ABOVE 2500rpm, the power kicks in HARD and I'm free-wheelin or meltin the stock clutch. If I had a clutch and REALLY sticky tires, I could FLY thru 1st or start in second OR third!! I just can't rev that high from a dead stop w/o a clutch and tires :( Not CN's fault, just more money I have to spend to make the ultimate drag car ;)

If you try to FLOOR it thru the gears, you be in each gear 3-5 seconds TOPS! It can be done, but even with a short shift kit the car seems to be waiting on me to shift again and again and AGAIN!!!

As for how fast thru the gears.. like I said above 3-5 seconds in each gear 2nd thru 4th. 1st gear I'm in for more since I can't go full throttle, if I could.... 1-2 seconds max... 5th gear is REALLY tall feeling in boost, since by the time you shift into 5th your doin like 110mph and wind resistance gets SO BAD your fighting like the car is goin through a brick wall... At this point my clutch starts to slip while I'm already in gear (if I'm at WOT) since the wind resistance overpowers the torque and the torque of the engine is WAY more than the clutch/preassure plate seems to be able to handle...

Sad part is, the only performance clutch made for the Si CAN'T hold a CN Turbo!!! I just found out I have to get a RSX-S clutch and preassure plate to hold under the HP and torque of the CN kit... HOWEVER, to use a RSX-S clutch setup you HAVE to have a RSX-S Flywheel!! So rather than buying a $300 OEM RSX-S Flywheel, I might as well save for a $400 Lightened flywheel, plus the clutch kit... so that's about $1000 including install. Then I need about $800 worth of rubber...

... Properly maintaining a turbo gets REAL expensive...

Now I know why Steve (SSVR6) ran only a mid 14 seconds in his.... :(

We'll see what I do at the track on the 14th....

Eric

siver-SI
11-04-2003, 07:26 PM
I would take a look at that CF hood that Showstoppers has with the scoop in the middle. They say that the air going through the hood will help cool off the trurbo and get more fresh air under the hood.

That is what hood I am going to look at when I get my turbo.

oogy-boogy
11-04-2003, 08:12 PM
Hmmm...

Could you tap into your CAI?

esmith13
11-04-2003, 08:13 PM
CAI is gone for good.....

Eric

oogy-boogy
11-04-2003, 08:14 PM
ahhh..

Rey
11-07-2003, 07:27 PM
For like 3-5 bucks, you can get some 3-4 inch pcv pipe and make your own intake. Then if you like it, you can find some aluminum or other kind of piping and get it formed by like a mufflershop? Or just paint it. :D

rs_1101
11-08-2003, 12:31 AM
you obviously spent a few $ on a turbo,... why dont you just strap a ram scoop on there or somethin

sniperSI
12-04-2003, 10:19 AM
Why not get a nitrous cooler? Or that zex nitrous intake kit thing they have?

sniperSI
12-04-2003, 10:21 AM
How about alkey injection?

K-Series
12-04-2003, 10:24 AM
Seriously Eric, look into the CO2 intercooler spray. It's cheaper than NO2 and way easier to work with. It's basically replacing the gas and the kit is cheaper.

I'm looking to get one for my IC.


Steve

esmith13
12-04-2003, 11:34 AM
Brand? Place to find? Name of actual product so I can look into it? I understand what your getting at -- and I like it, but I never heard of it before, just the NO2 kits...

More info please :D

Eric

K-Series
12-04-2003, 01:59 PM
A simple "CO2 Intercooler Spray" search in google (amazing tool :P) yielded this.

http://designengineering.com/

http://designengineering.com/images/cryo-ics.gif


Steve

ADAMnQuickCIVIC
12-04-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
Yes, that is exactly how it is plummed....

Eric

Actually that's how every turbo system is plumbed, it can't work any other way. This is why a cold air intake is unnecessary on an intercooled turbo car.

Regarding the lightened flywheel, if your turbo is properly sized you should not need a lightened flywheel. Typically it's not a good idea to have too light a flywheel in a turbo car, espcially in a car like a civic. Yes, it may make you rev a bit faster, but inbetween shifts you're going to drop out of boost even faster, causing a poor transition between gears. In other words you're going to bog. You think your car's hard to launch now? Just wait.

sniperSI
12-04-2003, 03:01 PM
Not to mention many guys on honda-tech feel that a lighten fly wheel on tuned car is a 1 way ticket to a main bearing replacement.

esmith13
12-04-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by US_Si
A simple "CO2 Intercooler Spray" search in google (amazing tool :P) yielded this.

http://designengineering.com/

http://designengineering.com/images/cryo-ics.gif


Steve

haha - smartass...

I didn't know that was the proper name...

Eric

siver-SI
12-04-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by US_Si
A simple "CO2 Intercooler Spray" search in google (amazing tool :P) yielded this.

http://designengineering.com/

http://designengineering.com/images/cryo-ics.gif


Steve

Any idea how many HP that will give a turbo? Just wondering if it is worth it.

nyxie
12-05-2003, 06:38 PM
i'd spend the money on bigger exhaust, or straight pipe, or have a bigger downpipe fabbed up. better yet all 3.

esmith13
12-05-2003, 07:33 PM
This turbo comes with a straight test pipe.

And it has been proven that a bigger downpipe and wider exhaust loose power with this setup. The cybernation turbo kit dyno'd 20HP lower when the piping was 3" than it does now with 2.5"

I have a hard time thinking CO2 or NO2 will aide much. However, for summertime use a home made water mist setup may be what the doctor ordered...

Eric

ADAMnQuickCIVIC
12-06-2003, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by esmith13

And it has been proven that a bigger downpipe and wider exhaust loose power with this setup. The cybernation turbo kit dyno'd 20HP lower when the piping was 3" than it does now with 2.5"

Eric

Wow, are you sure?
I've never heard of a turbo car losing power from a larger diameter exhaust, something sounds screwy.
With forced induction bigger is always better, unlike a n/a car.
In my old EX i picked up over 20hp switching to 3" over 2.5".

siver-SI
12-06-2003, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by ADAMnQuickCIVIC
Wow, are you sure?
I've never heard of a turbo car losing power from a larger diameter exhaust, something sounds screwy.
With forced induction bigger is always better, unlike a n/a car.
In my old EX i picked up over 20hp switching to 3" over 2.5".

I think it is are engine setup. From reading it seems like the K series like some back pressure. No matter what the mod is if there is a 3" on the car it is losing HP not gaining from what I have read.

esmith13
12-06-2003, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by ADAMnQuickCIVIC
Wow, are you sure?
I've never heard of a turbo car losing power from a larger diameter exhaust, something sounds screwy.
With forced induction bigger is always better, unlike a n/a car.
In my old EX i picked up over 20hp switching to 3" over 2.5".

I am 100% sure. It's one of the reasons I had to wait 4 months for my kit. 3" kits dyno'd at about 240HP and 2.5" kits dyno'd at about 260HP EVERY time....

Funy isn't it??

Eric