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ConeCrazy02
11-05-2003, 10:18 PM
SPEC
I adjusted my ride height to where the car doesn't feel like a SUV. Any higher height then it will not be good for braking or corning (center of gravity). Rear end jacked up more than stock, for the sake of traction. Camber adjusted to -1.5 front and rear. Max out my tie rod:( , with zero toe all around. EPS (electrical power steering) disconnected because it allows me to "steer with precision."

TEST DRIVE IMPRESSION
Set shock soft all around, first turn I pissed the dog. Thanks to the negative camber, the current setup has good turn in response with minimal tire chatter. If ever you guys want to make the EP handle, run as much camber as possible. Still need to dial in the shock and find the right tire pressure to run for the azenis, but I think this is already enough. I want to say this setup is amazing, but the coilover is limited by the suspension design. I am unsatisfied that I can't run more camber and ride height, but with the stiff springs I don't really notice any body movement. With my toes all corrected, braking is like noticeably improved, with no pitch or dive when hard braking. Cornering has like very very minimal bodyroll, only enough due to my helper springs (good for midcorner bumps because springs are too stiff).

RIDE QUALITY
~At fully soft I can feel every and I do mean every bumps and imperfections on the road, I am used to it because I ride a scooter with 850lb springs everyday.
~You know when you backed off the garage with a dip, well I did it and there were no play in the suspension.
~Thank God that the roads I drive everyday are fairly good, or else my head will be hitting the roof a lot more.
~I have yet to drive the car daily with anything higher than full soft, with the exception of Sunday autox with the out of spec alignment. At 8 click front and 16 click rear, I spun on the first turn. Although it was a good rotating, it will take some getting use to before I can drive the car loose.

COMPARISON
Let me say that it sucks to be adjusting the EP, a real pain in the ass because you don't know the limits. I don't know how Grassrootsmotorsports did their project si, no way they're running more than -1.5 camber (I have higher ride height and I am maxed out on tie rod adjustment, unless they have some toe in). FYI I went to this place with laser guided alignment, and I think GRM did their alignment themselves. If GRM is really running THAT spec, then I think they did it by lowering the rear too much. This causes way too many problems like traction, perhaps that is why they run 16s in the 1/4.

PRO
It will be the best mod you can do to a car, those stiff springs help you launch better, corner better and brake better. With a shorter tie rod, running approx H&R spring ride height (rear must be up a bit more) and -3.25f /-1.50r camber. The RS shocks are the best, damping the stiff springs with perfection. Helper springs helps a lot when it come to the stiff springs, whenever you hit a bump or dip with those stiff springs, those helper springs will keep the wheels planted. Camber plates are good, but adjusting the passenger side is blocked by the ac line.

CON
Only con is due to the tie rod


Anyone know If STS allows front lower control arm bushing (stock rubber to mugen hard rubber) replacement?

BlasTech
11-06-2003, 08:35 AM
The FLT-A2s come with 448#f/560#r spring rates

I remember yours were higher than that weren't they?

Suk02Si
11-06-2003, 09:46 AM
wow, 800lb spings? I want the FLT A2's but would probably run a 550fr/650r for a daily driver.

Burgh
11-06-2003, 09:46 AM
First off - lucky bastard!!! :D What'd you pay for the RS (if you don't mind me asking) and what sort of spring rates are you running? Is the damper on the RS the same as the basic A2s (can the basic A2 damper handle higher spring rates)?

Camber - from what I understand, the A2s come with a camber plate on the top mount. Did you only dial in -1.5 only because of the tierod issue? I've read some posts were owners with the Tein Flex setup where able to lower quite a bit and still get the camber they needed (while being able to adjust toe to 0 even if it is hard to do).

Also, the dampers have independent bound and rebound settings right? Have you played with these yet?

You never mentioned exactly how much you lowered the EP but GRM had it lowered so much that they were running out of suspension travel quite a bit. :( Not sure how they figured out the tie-rod issues to set toe back to normal. All the work they did on the Si, including hte alignment settings, is detailed on their project cars site.

Not sure about the front LCA bushing being legal in STS but anyone know if we can somehow modify our tie-rods and still be legal in STS?

Thanks for the writeup! :cool:

ConeCrazy02
11-06-2003, 11:50 AM
Spring rates are 12k front 16k rear, they're about the same price tag as the flta2. When I ordered them they gave me an option of shocks(regular or race), I choose the race dampers.

The idea setup is so hard to obtain because as soon as you mess with the height or the camber, you have to consider the tie rod, and they're very sensitive to change.

I setup my own DIY toe alignment, got a basic reference number, set it up, then take it to a laser guided alignment place (There is a big difference between firestone alignment and the laser guided one, so the DIY could be worst). You have to get a print out ($20) of your current spec, then adjust it accordingly, and once again take it back to the place for an actual alignment ($70). I strongly recommend a shop where they specialize in alignment and not some place like firestone. Even though the lifetime alignment deal looks tempting, it is a waste of money. Becareful of places where they don't give a crap about your shit, finding a place where they allow you to tune the suspension is very crucial.

My current ride height is about 1 in or 1/2 in between the H&R spring and stock ride height, just low enough where the car doesnt "float". I tried to get more camber by adding more height but it will severely affect your braking and cornering capabilities (Thanks to the stiff springs I was actually able to feel the negative effects of higher ride height).

The camber plate for the flta2 and the tein should be the same, it is only limited by the hole of the chasis, so I think the max amount of camber you can run with a camber plate is approx. -2.3. Right now I am thinking about running oem camber bolts, just maybe.

Only one adjustment knob for the shock, but that was enough to spun me on the first turn :eek: .

I dont mind changing class if it meant that I can run different tie rods, I feel that the ep with enough camber and just the right height will be competitve in DSP/CSP.

If no tie rods fix, I will try and have the tie rod attachment on the coilover cut, machined a flat one and weld it on.

Man I doubt GRM is running as much camber as they claim, something fishy going on.

Full soft all four corner and there is no bodyroll, wonder how my spine feels like when its full hard.

I have about 3in of front front tire to fender, maybe more.

Oh yah, no noises like my h&r springs/stock shocks

BlasTech
11-06-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by ConeCrazy02
Spring rates are 12k front 16k rear, they're about the same price tag as the flta2. When I ordered them they gave me an option of shocks(regular or race), I choose the race dampers.

E-gads thats like 672# f / 896# r ! Hard Core



I dont mind changing class if it meant that I can run different tie rods, I feel that the ep with enough camber and just the right height will be competitve in DSP/CSP.

MIght as well gut it, plug the sunroof, and get a LSD!


I have about 3in of front front tire to fender, maybe more.


You mean in front of the tire or above it?

ConeCrazy02
11-06-2003, 12:55 PM
Above it the tire to the inside of fender.

I like the idea of running r compounds/lsd/weight reduction, but as of right now I should keep it as a street car. Not to mention the cost.

Burgh
11-06-2003, 01:35 PM
Wow, 12K/16K! :eek: If you set those dampers to full stiff, you gotta be careful about internal bleeding. :D

I didn't realize that there offered two different dampers (as an option) as part of the package. The race dampers are more expensive I assume. JIC's website says that the FLT-A2s have independent bound and rebound adjustability, that's why I asked. I'm sure the RS system has that too. In fact Blastech pointed out that this is the primary difference compared to the Tein Flex.

In terms of your tierod problems, maybe try calling JIC and see what they have to say about it. Otherwise, here's a shot in the dark - I saw another set of dampers on honda-tech, may have been some JDM ones, where it looked like they just relocated the tie rod end on the opposite side (top vs bottom) to address the problem. It probably can't be done, but can you invert the position of the tierod to get you some more adjustability? Or you may be able to call/email one of the guys at GRM to ask how they setup their EP.

Oh, how much did you pay for the whole setup? :cool:

Oh, I'd say keep the EP in STS. So far it seems like the most competitive class for it. Not that anyone has really tried one out in DSP/SM/etc but I would imagine that the BMW's would be hard to beat in DSP at least.

BlasTech
11-06-2003, 01:55 PM
So, how easy is it to disconnect the Electric Power Steering, and is it worth a try?

ConeCrazy02
11-06-2003, 07:47 PM
I do it because with the EPS on, the steering is too soft and I tend to over-steering a turn. I need the eps off because with my suspension, the springs are too stiff, very sensitive to any bumps or dip when turning. To turn off the eps just look under your glove box, remove that plastic cover and you should see something that looks like your ecu. There are 2 10mm nut holding that box in place, remove and you can see 3 big wires. By unplugging the right 2 wires (identical ones) and not removing the last wire, you will have no power steering w/o the eps light coming on.

Suk02Si
11-06-2003, 07:55 PM
How about ABS, did you disable that too?

ConeCrazy02
11-06-2003, 08:09 PM
The setup is about 200 dollar more than the listed price for flta2, you pay extra for the springs, helper springs and the dampers. I think they gave me a discount but I am not sure and doesnt care.

I just realize something
I know why they can run more negative camber with the GRM civic. Here is my theory. GRM tucked the rear in the rear, which really not good for the car. I jacked up rear because you need the traction in the front and if you load the rear with more weight, you're taking it away from the front which is vital for traction.

Another thing I notice about the the GRM civic, they dont look like they're running more camber than me. Mine wheels seems to have more camber, but only measured at -1.5 camber.

Another problem with dropping the rear more than suppose to. Notice when the rear dropped more, the roof becomes flat. This can be problematic when you go high speed and want to get more aerodynamic downforce.

This is just my setup and right now I am liking it.

02SilverSiHB
11-06-2003, 08:15 PM
holy shit, that's stiff :D

ConeCrazy02
11-06-2003, 08:43 PM
I will not use the abs eventually, but right now I have so much more to worry about. I will do it because the houston site has a lot of gravel and abs will act negatively. I wish to learn left foot braking (not braking with left foot), so the abs is got to go eventually. It's very easy to disconnect the abs, just take out the fuse.

Burgh
11-07-2003, 09:27 AM
So does anyone make any aftermarket tierods for the EP that could solve this camber/toe/lowering problem? tkm ran into this problem with his Flex coilovers and said that the answer would be to get your hands on some shorter tierods.

Suk02Si
11-07-2003, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by 02SilverSiHB
holy shit, that's stiff :D

Your sound like Iced Out:smilem:

ConeCrazy02
11-07-2003, 04:01 PM
One thing I notice about the coilover, it is kind of hard to adjust the front shocks. Because the shocks are inverted, you have to adjust the shocks under the car. Although it maybe inconvenient, inverted shocks have more shock travel.