K20a swap questions

[wu343]

I wanted to get a little feedback about this. I was thinking of doing a K20a motor swap and I found an engine for $6500. I was wondering if anyone thinks that we could get at least $3500 for our motors if they are under 10k miles? Also would it be worth the final price or should I just wait and get a turbo?

[hacim]

You could always spend the money for a new motor but why? I could understand if your motor had 100,000 miles on it and another thing that 6500 you want to dish. Why dont you just beef up your motor, get a turbo and run lik 11psi. If you did this you would be one fast EP. Its apperent that you have the money to burn so go that route and if you blow the motor then get the other one.

[fishboy]

if you are talking about the 220hp type r motor with lsd and tranny i say go for it, but if it is the type s engine then its up to you. better internals...

i don't know if anybody would even want our motor, if someone had the money to invest then i would assume they'd just go all out. know what i mean?

[wu343]

I was thinking of someone with an EX or LX civic that wanted a K series motor. Anyway I realy like the idea of having 6 gears and no turbo leg. Also a good turbo kit costs around 4k and if I could dump my motor then the swap should cost about the same.

Right?

[hacim]

There isnt any engine mounts for the K series to go into an EX or an LX, atleast that I know of. Its a completly different set up. The turbo will be cheaper then the new motor and you will have more power. You definetly would have more tourgue with a turbo.

[fishboy]

that swap has been done before, a k20 into an ex/lx whatever. i'm thinking though if a guy is willing to do the swap he might just splurge the extra cash and get the type s or r motor. if you already found a buyer for the engine though then this all doesn't matter. i say do it though!

[hacim]

I think it would be a waist of money to go that route for the performance. If your not worried about the money go for it. I on the other hand am married and cant do that. I would rather spend less and get a turbo. Your EP with that motor and my EP with a turbo. I think that the turbo would out pull the other motor. Hell a Jackson Racing Supercharger gives a 6 psi boost and thats 40% more power. You would be looking at about 230 horses at the flywheel. Thats 10 more horses then the type-r motor and a hell of alot more tourque.

[wu343]

ya but what about the turbo leg?
And how safe are turbos for our cars?

[fishboy]

pretty safe, just keep it under 7 psi.

[wu343]

also what about SIX gears

[hacim]

Six gears dont mean all that much. I think most of that is hype. It realy maters hp to weight ratio. More power the faster you are going to go thru your gears. Another thing is if your worried about turbo lag then get a supercharger. No lag there, it runs off your crank and you have power at idle.

[IceD out N CALI]

If its the k20a, (220Hp 8400rpm redline) and u got the cash/balls-then do it.:D

[xlr8]

id buy the k20a. im thinking about doing that in a few monthes or so. there is alot to be said about 220hp in stock trim

[hacim]

Yes there is and its that there isnt much more all motor that you can do to that to make it much faster. That was the same deal with the older ITR. Some mods even droped the performance on them cus they are so highly tuned from the factory, not like our Si's.

[xlr8]

Originally posted by hacim
Yes there is and its that there isnt much more all motor that you can do to that to make it much faster. That was the same deal with the older ITR. Some mods even droped the performance on them cus they are so highly tuned from the factory, not like our Si's.
thats cool, im not trying to tell anyone what they have to do. in my opinion 220 factory reliable hp is better the 230 with a turbo or sc

[madbrain]

Just a little food for thought. If you have ever built up a V8 or any other motor for that matter after a while you will want more power. Going with the type-s or type-r will increase your compression ratio to 11:1. Although some people make and design turbos for these applications running high boost is costly and impracticle.

If an all motor route is your goal build up your own engine believe me it will be less than the swap. If you have the money any part that can't be found can be custom made. With custom cams, gears, rods, headwork and forged 11.5:1 pistons you will have a bad little bitch.

I do recomend the LSD but about all the sixth gear will get you is better gas mileage on the highway.

[wu343]

I did find this email to me:

3 engine arrived about 3 weeks ago but are all spoken for. If you want one,
it will be about a month away.

K20A 2002 Honda Integra Type R Engine $7500

K20A2 2002 Acura RSX Type S Engine $5000 (built with all K20 A internals,

[hacim]

Thats alot of money to spen for a new engine after you alreday have a brand new car. That kind of money would still get you alout of power out of our motors.

[ArcticBlueRsx]

I'd get the K20A w/ A2 internals if theyre really selling it for 5k...cuz all you have to do is sell your K20 for like a meager 3.5k and you can have somewhat of a CTR...all you'll be lacking is the LSD and jdm gearing, but you'll have factory reliabilty. With the FI idea...that sounds good too due to your rather low cp ratio. In my honest opinion i'd rather just stick w/ the K20A, and wait for parts to come. Hondata is supposed to release some stuff soon, and maybe Toda will be kind to you K20a people and offer some cams n stuff.

[redronin22]

I was also planning on saving up cash to get the Type r swap as well. But is it really true that i couldnt squeeze too much more outta it? 220 is near max? off the subject what can b16s do all motor?

[madbrain]

Thats alot of money, is that with the tranny or the ECM. Even so still alot of money. Work your own engine or buy a worked TT supra engine from Paeco Ind. for $8500 and around 800 horses, not that it would fit.

[madbrain]

I was also planning on saving up cash to get the Type r swap as well. But is it really true that i couldnt squeeze too much more outta it? 220 is near max? off the subject what can b16s do all motor?

The reason it is true is because the motor already has 11:1 pistons, 11.5:1 is the highest cp ratio you can run on pump gas. 12:1 and you are all race.

Another reason it is true is because FI on a high compression engine is not a good idea, it can be done with moderate boost but swapping the engine to go FI is an absolute waste of money. For example some top fuel dragsters run a cp ratio of 6:1 allowing them to boost over 30psi pushing around 1200 horses. I know that they are V8 engines but the basics apply to 4 bangers as well.

About the NA B16 I dont know any specifics but I do know that some pros race that engine into the low 11's.

[redronin22]

i wanna go all motor but have reliability to boot. this is gonna be my daily driver thats why i wanted the type r swap. It would be reliable though right? So for 8500 are you getting the engine ecu limited slip and transmission?

[madbrain]

I dont get it for the price of the engine swap and the car you could have had a CTR dropped on your doorstep from Europe or Japan. If you had friends overseas in the military they could have sent you one for nothing.

[redronin22]

i wont have that much cash saved for another year or so. i had to buy my EP cus my old prelude died in the middle of 5 freeways in san diego in rush hour on a date. needless to say she hasnt called since. if i had had money to spend on a car i would have gotten the rsx type s but my insurance was a bit high and id have to fork out another 6 grand. i didnt want the base rsx cus i knew that there was a badder animal out there. So i got the SI after i drove it cus accord v6s are pigs to take corners in. Now since im makin a bit more money i can afford more junk so im saving a few hundred a month for mods when nice stuff comes out. I want a reliable car not some 300+hp monster that sits in my garage or driveway cus i cant drive it too much etc. Just something that is reasonably fast and can handle well.

[Scivichatch02]

turbo the motor you have now !!!! you will have low end power from all the torque ivtec makes and you will have high end from the turbo that will help out alot. With the type-s motor you will only make power in the high end and you wont make shit in the low end.

Your motor in your car now will last if you keep the boost at one setting then you wont tear your motor up. Let the car warm up and cool down after beating on your car. And try not to boost everytime you drive.

[madbrain]

i wont have that much cash saved for another year or so. i had to buy my EP cus my old prelude died in the middle of 5 freeways in san diego in rush hour on a date. needless to say she hasnt called since. if i had had money to spend on a car i would have gotten the rsx type s but my insurance was a bit high and id have to fork out another 6 grand. i didnt want the base rsx cus i knew that there was a badder animal out there. So i got the SI after i drove it cus accord v6s are pigs to take corners in. Now since im makin a bit more money i can afford more junk so im saving a few hundred a month for mods when nice stuff comes out. I want a reliable car not some 300+hp monster that sits in my garage or driveway cus i cant drive it too much etc. Just something that is reasonably fast and can handle well.

OK, I understand now sorry about your date I hope she wasn't too hot.

[madbrain]

Hey if you can afford $8000 bucks for a swap check this out.

www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2609

[Ritteri]

I am interested in swapping a K20A engine out for my K20A3 engine in my 02 Si. But what would it require for a sucessful swap??? First off there are 6 speeds instead of 5 so would there be problems with the in dash shifter?? 2nd would I need a different ECU or computer??? 3rd, the rpm guage on the Si only goes up to 8 grand? Do they make a swap for the instrumentation cluster?? What gives here??

[rick77f]

I say be patient and wait. The popualrity of our vehicles is rising. Kind of like previous Si and the Prelude. I am sure plenty of goodies are coming. You could go custom and build a fat all motor job with help from JE Piston, Carillo, etc....but I still say just wait.

[IceD out N CALI]

as far as cluster goes you could always use the CTR cluster it goes to 9grand:)

[Febrezee]

With the K series engine a turbo will be a pricy thing. You have do modify the fuel system and relocate the FPR and the FR line as well as change the ECU and the pump itself.. Not to mention any mods you'll have to do so the tranny doesnt burst.... I say Type R engine.. 220 HP = 190 at the wheels... with internal mods and a few more grand I could easily see you pushing 280 at the wheels..


MY OPINION DO THE SWAP... Specially if you really can get it for only 7500... thats a good price, in my reasearch for one the lowest I got was 8200....

[madbrain]

The Japenese JIC ratings of HP on the Type-R motor differ from Americn ratings the 220hp is actually around 210hp. So for only a 10 horse difference I would get the cheaper Type-S. If you wish you can research this at TOVA as well as an S2000 head on a K series block.

[hacim]

WIll an F20 head work on a K series block?

[ArcticBlueRsx]

yes, the F20c head will fit on the K20, however i heard that the head is gonna cost you 3k and for only a 25hp over the regular K20a2 (rsx-s motor) its not exactly worth it....and about the type R....im sure its more than a 10hp increase over the Type S, cuz Type R's run 14.2's stock whereas my car the type S can barely make high 14's....w/ the Type R motor you get all the goodies that the type S doesnt have, LSD, shorter gearing and the higher redline ecu....

[brian g]

Don't bother putting on the F20 head, because the K head flows equally well. I am not sure if you would even want to try anyways since the timing chain arangement is different and the F20 cams turn in the opposite direction of the K20 cams.

I am building both a K24blocked K20A2 engine and a turbo K20A2 engine, but I am betting that the turbo engine will be a lot faster.

brian g

[IceD out N CALI]

Sounds good brian. any estimates on when you might be done with those projects?

[brian g]

November 1st

brian g

[madbrain]

Don't bother putting on the F20 head, because the K head flows equally well. I am not sure if you would even want to try anyways since the timing chain arangement is different and the F20 cams turn in the opposite direction of the K20 cams.

Are you sure about the flow bench testing on these heads. And don't both the S2000 and K20 engines have a clockwise turning crank??

[HK_EP3]

Whats dis talk all about... if you could afford 7500 for a new motor, y not just sell ur si and import a car or just get the type s since thats the motor u goin for... pssss... if i have 7500 dollars, i'd sell my car and see if i can get a 02 CTR imported here. then u'd really be ballin cuz ull be the only one wit a CTR in U.S.

[ArcticBlueRsx]

if you could afford 7500 for a new motor,

Technically you'll only pay like 1/2 of that amount for the new motor..remember that you usually end up selling your old motor b4 putting the new one in...cuz i dont think everyone has places to put extra motors lying around....

[brian g]

Are you sure about the flow bench testing on these heads. And don't both the S2000 and K20 engines have a clockwise turning crank??

Yes, Both the K and F engines share the same port dimensions, and the only difference between the K20 and the F20 is the size of the valve. That would be easy to remedy.

As for the rotation, the engines rotate the same way, but not the cams. In the F engine, the cams gears are turned by another gear that is connected the timing chain. In the K engine the cam gears are turned directly by the timing chain.

Hope I am not destroying to many dreams.

brian g

[madbrain]

Hope I am not destroying to many dreams.

Well at least your not destroying mine. I just enjoy talking about engine mods other than I/H/E. BTW, how are the projects coming along?

[LordKoo]

Smoking again guys?

K20 and F20's bore and stroke are different! How can the head interchange! Use your cow brain sense!

Man, the problem with the forum is wrong information always spread like wild fire!

[ssvr6]

Originally posted by LordKoo
Smoking again guys?

K20 and F20's bore and stroke are different! How can the head interchange! Use your cow brain sense!

Man, the problem with the forum is wrong information always spread like wild fire!

Try and be a little constructive instead of attacking them. That's whats really wrong this site (even though it only happens once every other day.)


Steve

[madbrain]

K20 and F20's bore and stroke are different! How can the head interchange! Use your cow brain sense!



Edit: Not worth my time to give a lesson. Unless that is really a question.