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View Full Version : **What's a good sway bar to get that won't tear out?**



oicw
11-29-2003, 10:59 PM
What's a good sway bar to get that won't tear out? Will the 2004 17mm rear sway bar fit on the 2002-03? Who makes the best aftermarket sway bar set?

civicSIracer
11-29-2003, 11:06 PM
the JDM type R 22mm sway is a good up grade.. or the more meaty progress sway bar combo gets a thumbs up..

oicw
11-29-2003, 11:38 PM
RSX-S Rear Sway Bar will fit on an EP3 Civic Si:

http://www.k-series.com/tech_detail.php?Tech_ID=EP3_S_SWAYBAR_R

How big is the RSX-S Rear Sway Bar? Is it bigger than the JDM type R 22mm sway?

Which sway will fit without the risk of a tear out? Do you have to get the beaks kit to prevent tear out?

How big is the progress sway bar combo?

civicSIracer
11-30-2003, 01:17 AM
rsx s is 19mm
ours is 17
jdm is 22
not sure on progress..

search!

Civicvtec1ps
11-30-2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by civicSIracer
rsx s is 19mm
ours is 17
jdm is 22
not sure on progress..

search!
our stock sway bar is 15mm , (02-03 models)
04 si comes with 17mm rear sway bar.
Progress rear sway bar is 22mm.
Mugen , 25mm
Stock 02-03 si rear sway bar's diameter is 15mm, If we upgrade to Progress rear sway bar setup(22mm). New sway bar would be 363% stiffer.

Zero Three Si
11-30-2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Civicvtec1ps
our stock sway bar is 15mm , (02-03 models)
04 si comes with 17mm rear sway bar.
Progress rear sway bar is 22mm.
Mugen , 25mm
Stock 02-03 si rear sway bar's diameter is 15mm, If we upgrade to Progress rear sway bar setup(22mm). New sway bar would be 363% stiffer.

DAMN!

oicw
11-30-2003, 11:47 PM
But will a 22mm tear out? I have seen many pics online of 22mm tear outs on integra GSRs. Tear outs can be minimized with reinforcement kits but are there any reinforcement kits for the ep3 Si?

TezGari
11-30-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by oicw
RSX-S Rear Sway Bar will fit on an EP3 Civic Si:

http://www.k-series.com/tech_detail.php?Tech_ID=EP3_S_SWAYBAR_R

How big is the RSX-S Rear Sway Bar? Is it bigger than the JDM type R 22mm sway?

Which sway will fit without the risk of a tear out? Do you have to get the beaks kit to prevent tear out?

How big is the progress sway bar combo?

Thats a darn good tech guide who did that??;)

Anyways, I think the best bar is the RSX S, reason being is the cost!

If you can get one for under $70.00 shipped, buy it. If not jump for the CTR bar, if you want awsome handling etc...IF you are a everyday guy, get the RSX S, auto x person CTR..;) ...

This should help alot too, i was in your spot when i needed a rear sway bar: Rear Sway Bar Search (http://www.ephatch.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=224954&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending) , helped me alot! I love the RSX S version, i payed $40.00...But i will upgrade to the CTR later on...Good luck.;)

TezGari
11-30-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by oicw
But will a 22mm tear out? I have seen many pics online of 22mm tear outs on integra GSRs. Tear outs can be minimized with reinforcement kits but are there any reinforcement kits for the ep3 Si?

Not sure, i think (hotchiks or hothchiks), i spell their name wrong i think...I think they make endlinks for the Acura RSXs. But i dont think thier is anyone on here or even k-series.com who has broken their endlinks..I think if you push your car hard like 24/7 you can do it...

22mm is too hard? Try the Mugen 25mm lol...Ultimate handling, it might rip your endlinks and metal too! lol...

Comment if im wrong please..;)

f4hondaphile
12-01-2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by oicw
But will a 22mm tear out? I have seen many pics online of 22mm tear outs on integra GSRs. Tear outs can be minimized with reinforcement kits but are there any reinforcement kits for the ep3 Si?


Neuspeed, Comptech, and Progress all sell 22mm bars that have integrated reinforcement to prevent tear outs, the progress looks the least strong of the three in pictures, but I have never seen any of them in person. Tear out may be an issue with a 22mm or bigger (mugen) bar in conjunction with otherwise stock suspension and hard driving. However, Comptech now sells a 22mm bar without reinforcement and the CTR bar obviously does not have it either. Hotchkis (a very good susp. company IMO) will have a sway bar kit that replaces both front and rear available for our car by christmas, their rear bar does not have support, it is a 25.4mm (1 in) bar but it is hollow so it is not as stiff as a solid 25.4mm. Check out the rsx bars on their website, ours will be very similar.

Personally I recommend the rsx bar if you have stock suspension and are a daily driver, check out the following thread: http://ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24013

f4hondaphile
12-01-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Civicvtec1ps
our stock sway bar is 15mm , (02-03 models)
04 si comes with 17mm rear sway bar.
Progress rear sway bar is 22mm.
Mugen , 25mm
Stock 02-03 si rear sway bar's diameter is 15mm, If we upgrade to Progress rear sway bar setup(22mm). New sway bar would be 363% stiffer.

How is this calculated? Do you have a formula that tells you how much stiffer a given size bar is than one of a different size? Or was this information listed somewhere?

If it is a formula how do you account for the variable of different types of material, ie: hollow vs. solid, and different alloys of steel that affect how stiff a given bar is?

Really curious because I wanted to calulate this myself before buying a sway bar. Thanks.

Civicvtec1ps
12-01-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by f4hondaphile
How is this calculated? Do you have a formula that tells you how much stiffer a given size bar is than one of a different size? Or was this information listed somewhere?

Formula for sway bar stiffness of a solid steel bar
(new diameter/old diameter) to fourth power
I am pretty sure thats the right forumula. However there are plenty conversion chart for sway bars. Ive seen it somewhere but i cant find it now. I think stock endlinks are strong enough to handle 22mm rear anti sway bar.But I am getting better endlinks eventualy,just in case. I had 02 ex , Stock rear sway bar were 12mm. Upgraded to 19mm rsx sway bar. Hell of differences.

oicw
12-01-2003, 09:11 PM
Anybody on this board install a 22mm and drive it hard and has NOT experienced tear out?

Going from 15mm to 22mm is a big difference. I don't think the stock end links can handle such a big difference. Are there any reinforcement kits?

How much is a CTR 22mm sway and where can you get them?
How big is the front Hotchkis sway?
Does the Neuspeed 22mm come with reinforcement kit?

f4hondaphile
12-01-2003, 09:41 PM
Can't help with a 22m not tearing out from personal experience but I can tell you that the Hotchkis front sway is the same size as our stock one, 25.4mm, but it is hollow, and has two position adjustability it should be a small but noticeable amount stiffer than stock. Hotchkis lists the percentage it is stiffer in both positions on their website, hotchkistuning.net, I think they only have the info for the rsx bars right now but ours will be very similar and should be available within a month. The CTR bar is 100 shipped from hondawerx.com as a ephatch special, the same vendor has the rsx bar with bushings for 85 shipped, look on the vendor page of this site. Your local acura dealer should sell you the bar for 75 and about 4 a peice for the bushings. The neuspeed sway is reinforced they have good pictures on their website, neuspeed.com

Hope this helps.

Slip_Angle
12-01-2003, 10:25 PM
I went with the 19mm RSX-S Sway bar and I autocross. The car rotates nicely with this bar. I'm not convinced a bigger bar would help much but I have not tried it either. I wonder if you would suffer from excessive oversteer? How about snap oversteer at the wrong time...like on a freeway on ramp?

Anyone have experience with autocrossing the 22mm?

glw
12-01-2003, 11:38 PM
I got the progress sways front and rear and drive it hard 2 days a month at the autox... no problems...

sleepin02si
12-02-2003, 06:40 PM
I drive hard all the time. After reading all of this, I'm thinking of going with the RSX-S bar b/c I don't want to tear anything out. Can anyone verify that the CTR does not have reinforcment built in to the endlinks? We know the CTR bar in not reinforced.

BlasTech
12-02-2003, 06:49 PM
Ive autocrossed/daily driven for half a year, and even taken a performance driving shool with absolutely no problems using a 22mm bar. The wheel/tire combo on my car is about 3 lbs lighter than stock on each corner

sleepin02si
12-02-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by BlasTech
Ive autocrossed/daily driven for half a year, and even taken a performance driving shool with absolutely no problems using a 22mm bar. The wheel/tire combo on my car is about 3 lbs lighter than stock on each corner
Thanks!

oicw
12-02-2003, 10:03 PM
Are beefed up end links available for sale? Is there a beaks kit available?

Looking of a reinforcement kit.

*** There are some GSR guys on the hondatech.com & hondaacura.net with 22mm rear sways with out reinforcement kit who experienced tear out and posted pics online.

raiyo
12-02-2003, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by oicw
Are beefed up end links available for sale? Is there a beaks kit available?

Looking of a reinforcement kit.

*** There are some GSR guys on the hondatech.com & hondaacura.net with 22mm rear sways with out reinforcement kit who experienced tear out and posted pics online.

our cars dont have and reinforcement kits. what u could do is get a lower tie bar for that area, that'll be the closest to a reinforcement kit u can get. i might be wrong.

i would recommend u to get a CTR 22mm, but if you're scared if ripping, get a RSX 19mm.

Civicvtec1ps
12-02-2003, 11:44 PM
read somewhere here that if you get a rear anti sway bar over 20mm it's recommended to get a tie bar so that you don't damage the crossmember and/or rip your subframe. Low tie bar does nothing. I'de think that it would do more than the rear tie bar. If you're convinced about the usefulness of the rear tie bar, then I would get the rear strut bar as well. Then again, a sway bar does more than any of those components. It's like this: 40% rims, 30% sway bar, 20% strut bar, and 10% tie bar. You need all of these components to decrease the body roll during a high speed turn. rear tie bar won't do anything without a sway bar upgrade.All it does it keep a thicker rear anti sway bar from ripping or flexing the rear crossmember. It does nothing in terms of feel, think of it as reinforcement and only works for bars 21mm or thicker in the rear.If you guys are looking to buy new endlinks. Try GREY's custom endlinks. Alot better than hotchkis and cheaper.
http://users.wpi.edu/~dobosz/prototypes/closeup.jpg
http://users.wpi.edu/~dobosz/prototypes/view2.jpg
I am eager to try those out sometime later. Once i get new sway bar.(damn i hate being BROKE.:yellm: )
He added washers and o-rings on the outside to cushion the endlinks and to muffle and noise they might make due to some play in the bushing and housing.also added a washer to space the endlink out. Fun toy

sleepin02si
12-03-2003, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by Civicvtec1ps
Try GREY's custom endlinks. Alot better than hotchkis and cheaper.

Where can I find these. I tried a Google search, but no luck.

trk
12-03-2003, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by glw
I got the progress sways front and rear and drive it hard 2 days a month at the autox... no problems...

I also have the 22 mm progress bars with tie bar ... it is SUPER beefy -- I see NO WAY IN HELL the bar will tear out ...

check it ... (notice the third set of bolts hiding the tie bar on, those go through the lower control arms ... no way its coming out... no way)

http://homepage.mac.com/tai/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2003-11-27%2010.00.41%20-0800/Image-0A6EE360210111D8.jpg

Civicvtec1ps
12-03-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by sleepin02si
Where can I find these. I tried a Google search, but no luck.
http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102971

xlr8
12-03-2003, 05:34 PM
ive had the mugen rear bar on for over 10000 miles and had no problems. and i drive hard all the time

oicw
12-03-2003, 10:46 PM
trk, Does the Progress 22mm sway come with the backing plates or do you get the backing plate when you buy the tie bar?

Does the Neuspeed, Comptech, Hotchkis, come with the backing plates?

trk
12-04-2003, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by oicw
trk, Does the Progress 22mm sway come with the backing plates or do you get the backing plate when you buy the tie bar?

Does the Neuspeed, Comptech, Hotchkis, come with the backing plates?


the progress bar "plate" you are talking about IS THE tie bar.. and yes it comes with it.

oicw
12-06-2003, 01:37 AM
I thought that the tie bar was sold separately. Is Progress the only rear swaybar kit that includes the tie bar & backing plate?

sleepin02si
12-06-2003, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by oicw
I thought that the tie bar was sold separately. Is Progress the only rear swaybar kit that includes the tie bar & backing plate?
The tie bar is def. included with the Progress bar. I don't know if anyone else sells theirs with the tie bar or not.

madbrain
12-06-2003, 12:22 PM
Hotchkis (a very good susp. company IMO) will have a sway bar kit that replaces both front and rear available for our car by christmas, their rear bar does not have support, it is a 25.4mm (1 in) bar but it is hollow so it is not as stiff as a solid 25.4mm. Check out the rsx bars on their website, ours will be very similar.

I have had the front and rear Hotchkis sways on my EP for about 6 months they are the same part # as the RSX bars and you can buy them right now.

BTW I absolutely love them. Nice quality and superb handling.

f4hondaphile
12-06-2003, 02:28 PM
Cool!

I talked with a guy on the phone there recently and he said they were doing final fitment testing on the ep stuff but we could've told them its the same as RSX of course. I wasn't sure if the ep bars would be calibrated differently formthe rsx bars given our different stock bars.

I certainly recommend them after my experience with their springs on my old GM G-body car.

civic si hb
12-06-2003, 10:33 PM
i have the ctr rear swaybar and love it,it made a huge difference in body roll. i do have a question though, since i had the swaybar installed i have a clunking noise at the drivers side rear section of the car when i hit bumps or make left turns and hit bumps. i had the swaybar re torqued and everything sounded great for about a month and now that it's cold out the clunking in the rear is back again. any thoughts of what this is and why it's doing it, cause it's quite ignoring, thanks for any help.

oicw
12-08-2003, 10:06 PM
civic si hb, Did you have your CTR swaybar installed with a reinforced backing plate? If their is clunking noise, you might have a tear out if you drive it hard. Did you get thicker end links?

Where can you buy a CTR swaybar? Is it solid or hollow? How much does it cost? Do you have the part number?

civic si hb
12-08-2003, 11:47 PM
i used the factory endlinks for the install but have new bushings. i don't spirtly but not aggressive, i'm 28 and have a 3 year old son. i bought the swaybar from a power selller from ebay with over 5000 positives. the bar is a factory ctr rear sway bar. i'm not sure if it's hollow or solid, it is completly black in color with a red stripe on each side. i paid good money for it $125.00 shipped. as far as tear out goes, everything is still connected to the endlinks and the sway bar is very tight. i can pull on the bar as hard as i can and it doesn't budge. i get the clunking noise only on the drivers side and it sounds like it comes from under the rear tire well area. i don't have to be turning either, we just got dumped on with snow so the roads are quite rough right now so when i'm on a stright away going ovet the snow the noise is as clear as day. i haven't brought it to the dealership beacuse they always can't here it or blam the sway bar because it's not the factory si, it's a ctr.the only other thing i can tell you when i had the swaybar tightened the car was in the air on a jack and i heard you should have the car on the ground. please help if you can, i appreciate it.

f4hondaphile
12-09-2003, 04:21 PM
Do a search, a number of guys have had this problem--probably the bar is mounted upside down or backwards. There are good pictures of the problem and a decent write up just do a search. I can tell you from my rsx bar install you do have to pay close attention to the way the stock bar is oriented.

What happens is when the bar is mounted backwards the drivers side of the bar angles down towards the lower control arm and on bigger bumps and hard turns when the suspension is compressed the lower control arm actually hits the bar. When mounted properly, the drivers side of the bar has a pronounced curve upward to clear the lower control arm even when the suspension is at full compression, the bar then curves back down to meet the endlink. If this is what has happened with your bar its an easy fix, just remove and reinstall it the other way. Hope this helps

civic si hb
12-09-2003, 04:55 PM
i appreciate the thought but the swaybar is not on upside down, i made sure of that. i've searched this topic so much my brain hurts. i get no love from honda because it a ctr sway bar. i get the thumping noise on bumpy roads not even turning and i'm running stock springs, ect. any other thoughts guys please keep them comming, there's got be be somebody out there with the same problem. thanks

f4hondaphile
12-09-2003, 06:24 PM
Sorry I couldn't help. Maybe if you post some pics of the bar and the installed hardware somebody could spot a problem visually, assuming nobody has exprienced similar issues and knows whats going on.