Let it idle good/bad

[Gs02SiR]

I know this is a fairly basic question, but one that I find a lot of disagreement over.

Is it better to let the car idle and warm up on cold days or is it better to jump in and drive. I am constantly being told letting the car idle is not good. At the same time, I feel horrible driving the car when its cold.

What are the informed opinions? Which method is placing more stress on the engine and transmission?

(yes I did do a search)

Thanks
G

[Peking]

Leaving her to idle for long periods of time is not good (like you I have heard the good and the bad, so I have formed my own idea), I let my girl warm up for a few minuties, and/or until the rpm goes from 2K to 900 hundred rpm. The manual says to allow the car to warm up for 2 minutes.

[team ERA 5]

well my dad said honda told him not to let his car idle...but i let it idle...i let it chill for a while (around a min)...its like waking a person up and telling them to do pushups etc. haha...i like waking up my car slowly and slowly driving her out until shes warmed up...sum it all up im like you i let my car idle for a while

and other insights on this????

[bobdobbs]

I'm trying to think of a good reason why idling to warm up cold engine oil is bad for your engine and I can't. This sounds pretty ridiculous.

[Zero Three Si]

My belief is that I'm "wasting" car if I let my car warm up. I start her up, give her 20 seconds to "warm" up and drive. I don't jump on her at least until I drive a mile or two.

[chubbychu]

ugh...if you had the midpipe, you WANT to let it warm up or else the muffler sounds TERRRRRIBLE

[Stoop]

It can't be bad to let it idle...unless someone is saying that it is bad to sit at a red light.....or does everyone on here just rev their engines at the car next to them and prepare to race on green??:D

[SoCaLep3]

I always let my car idle for about 2-3 minutes in the morning, and if the car has been sitting for 3 or more hours i usualy idle for like 30 seconds or more before i go. Is it needed to idle anytime besides in the morning?

[ATRIOT]

Every tech article i've read has said that
anything more than 30 seconds of idling is unnessary. I'll try to find the links.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by ATRIOT
Every tech article i've read has said that
anything more than 30 seconds of idling is unnessary. I'll try to find the links.
I'll buy that, even without the links. But the question was, is it "better" to just jump in and drive and is idling BAD. I can't see any situation where letting your car idle to warm up is bad for it. Maybe it's not necessary, beyond 30 seconds, but it's certainly not bad, other than the wasted gas.

[ATRIOT]

lol, if you ever experiance a Canadian winter, you'll realize that theres no such thing as "jumping in and driving away". First you gotta scrap your windows, then wait till your testicles decend back down.
And finally by the time you can flex your fingers again, your cars pretty much warmed up.

[bobdobbs]

Ha! I had a VW Scirocco my first year of college in Michigan and I swear that thing knew when I was arriving at my destination because just as I was pulling in the parking lot is when the heat would kick in. Never failed.

[RiceCzechs]

That's not just a Deutsche thing... I had an '89 Probe GT that used to do that, as well... :(

And add me to the chorus that says there's nothing harmful about letting your car warm up at idle, only benefits.

[rs_1101]

well im in the middle of a cali winter.. lol. but it does drop to freezing some nights so tats somethin right?
i live next to a street thats got a speedlimit of 60mph, so i usually let my car warm for a minute, then take it around the block under 3k to warm alittle, cuz when i pull out to make that right turn, i usually have to redline to match traffic speed/density

[mrfixit687]

letting the car idle and warm up in the cold morning is alot worse then driving it after 30sec of turning it on. when you're idling there is not that much oil pressure, so the oil is taking longer to get through your engine and it wont lubricate the parts as fast, causing wear. plus in the morning the oil is cold and the viscosity is up so its harder to pump the oil.

[civicSIracer]

true about oil pressure.. you car has been in the cold for the whole night, all the oil in the pan and your going to start it and let it sit and run? the engine has NO load on it, therefore, will not build up enough heat in 30 seconds to warm the engine. put a load on your engine and build heat and oil pressure. you motor wasent made to idle. it was made to work

[bobdobbs]

Oil pressure is lower but so is engine RPM, so less oil is required. If oil pressure was dangerously low while idling, the warning light will come on. I'm not buying that it's better to rev the engine higher because oil pressure is too low at idle. That's like saying to keep your engine from overheating you should redline it because the water pump works better. :confused:

[Surprise]

Quote from Bobistheloiguy.com thread (http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001231)


Prolonged idle at any time of the year is to be avoided, whether the car is cold or hot. The oil pressure is at its lowest and the bearings have the least amount of protection.

Compounding that problem is the proliferation of combustion byproducts at start-up (cold weather only prolongs the period until warm-up), oil still has to get to at least 180F, preferably over 200F before the byproduct percentage is reduced.

Some of these byproducts include hydrochloric acid and other nasties that take their toll over time. While EFI has helped immensely in controlling the amount of unburned fuel in the motor oil, still, an appropriate period of slow driving the first few miles until the coolant, the oil, the trans/pwr steer/rear axle/suspension/steering/wheel bearing grease can warm up is recommended.

Personally, I'd never start a car and just let it run. Take it out and drive it 30-50 miles and then put it away. Warm-up is simply the point where the contaminants BEGIN to reduce. One must drive the vehicle far enough to overcome the imbalance brought on by cold start.

[bobdobbs]

Prolonged idle at any time of the year is to be avoided, whether the car is cold or hot. The oil pressure is at its lowest and the bearings have the least amount of protection.
This is very misleading. New, properly designed engines provide adequate oil pressure even at idle. Even if it's at the "lowest" like he says, it's still adequate. Good engineers, like Honda's, design for these situations. Saying the bearings have the "least amount of protection" is like saying a single condom gives you the "least amount of protection." It may be true, but for all but extreme situations,it's enough.

The other issues he brings up don't apply. Nobody's talking about starting their car and letting it idle for 30 minutes without driving it and then shutting it off. As long you get get it up to normal operating temperature so the nasty stuff burns off, you're fine.

[STP03BlueSI]

I start stitch up in the morning and go to work..

[oldschoolimport]

"idling for long periods is to be avoided". get this, you are stuck in traffic for a wreck, no one is going to move anytime in the near future, it is extremely cold out. are you telling me that some of you will turn off your motors, wrap up in the emergency security blanket you take everywhere and just whistle, hum, or yodel because the car doesn't need to idle for long periods. hell no. it is a car and it is meant to run. it is not at warm up, but it is idling for long periods.
I just can't buy into the thought process that idling is BAD. lots of engines idle, generators, lawn mowers, tractors, fishing boats when they are trolling. they do have some resistance, the blade or prop, but in these instances those are more like additional flywheels than resistance.
the oil pressure is adequate or the idiot light would be on. modern oils flow better than those in the past. this is BS.

[Zero Three Si]

The horse is dead...stop beating it.http://www.sdplastics.com/dedhorse.gif

[Surprise]

You still have an engine that is running rich, spraying the cylinder walls with gasoline. The excess gas and other acid-rich byproducts of combustioin gets past the rings and into the sump. This happens every time the motor fires and dilutes the oil. Once the engine is warm these byproducts are evaporated. These byproducts lead to the corrosion and wear of the engine.

The issue is more related to the amount of time an engine is required to idle to warm up comared the amount of time an engine under a load requires to warm. The least amount of time the byproducts are in the oil the better it is for the engine.

[513n179]

i usually sit in my car for 5 minutes before i take off. i've found that once the car is warm, it runs smoother than jumping on it... maybe i should stop doing this... but i always thought that letting the car warm up was good, oh well...

in the manual it says to "avoid fast starts and rapid exceleration", does that mean taking off once the car is started?

[civicSIracer]

not a fuel injected car

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by Surprise
You still have an engine that is running rich, spraying the cylinder walls with gasoline.
Unless you've replaced your fuel injection with a pair of weber carbs, I don't see how you could make that statement. Honda's FI is specifically tuned to run as lean as possible at idle, running on only 12 valves. If we did run rich, we wouldn't have the LEV sticker on our windows.

[rs_1101]

dood when i started my car up today.. i had to put somethin in the hatch... man i could smell the unburnt gas. and see it. smelled like the ass end of a boat..

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by rs_1101
dood when i started my car up today.. i had to put somethin in the hatch... man i could smell the unburnt gas. and see it. smelled like the ass end of a boat..
Yes, when it's cold it richens the mixture. That doesn't last very long. Regular idle is not that rich.

[RMC22]

How about we try something new and read the owner's manual. It clearly states to let it sit for just a minute, not too long, and then drive (without beating the shit out of it) to complete the process

[ATRIOT]

:Finds a stick and pokes the horse.... :

[mrfixit687]

Originally posted by Zero Three Si
The horse is dead...stop beating it.http://www.sdplastics.com/dedhorse.gif

ahahahhaahahhahha

[Surprise]

Originally posted by bobdobbs
Yes, when it's cold it richens the mixture. That doesn't last very long. Regular idle is not that rich.

We are talking about cold idle;)

How about we try something new and read the owner's manual. It clearly states to let it sit for just a minute, not too long, and then drive (without beating the shit out of it) to complete the process

Exactly.

Now where did I put that stick

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by Surprise
We are talking about cold idle;)
No, we're talking about "prolonged idle" (see above). Cold start is not cold idle. Cold start happens when you're cranking the car. The FI injects more gas to richen the mixture to start the engine. Once the engine starts, it goes into fast idle based on coolant temperature. It is not an overly-rich condition.

[ATRIOT]

Someone take his stick away :smilem:

[bobdobbs]

Yeah, let's get back to talking about tranny problems and midpipes... :confused:

[rs_1101]

YAY midpipes!

[ATRIOT]

You get to take the horse home.

[Gs02SiR]

Thanks for all the posts....I would thank you guys for the answer but I think you made it clear there is NO answer.

I'm sorry to do this, but what about wear on the transmission. I feel horrible driving my car when its cold because for the first 5 minutes the tranny is stiff and notchy. While my tranny can be a bit notchy on warm days it really suffers in the colder weather. I (as someone else mentioned) have to do a lot of shifting early in my morning commute. What is the opinion of the group?

Thanks again
G

[bobdobbs]

<sigh> Great, a tranny problem. I'm outta here...

[Gs02SiR]

Not a tranny problem (unless a stiff transmission is unusual in cold weather...???) I am asking whether the wear/tear on driving a tranny when its stiff and cold outweighs the supposed wear/tear on the engine resulting from idling.

[ATRIOT]

Woo Hoo! A fresh Horse! j/k, Yeah mines the same way, the cold does that to metal parts, fluids are less viscous and metals need time to warm up to expand. Run your shifter through the gears a few times before you start moving and you should be good.

[Peking]

Originally posted by ATRIOT
Woo Hoo! A fresh Horse! j/k, Yeah mines the same way, the cold does that to metal parts, fluids are less viscous and metals need time to warm up to expand. Run your shifter through the gears a few times before you start moving and you should be good.

Yes I do the same, and at every stop :D Well not every stop :blushm:

[02NJHondaep3]

ITS A CIVIC. As long as we take care of our cars they should last us 100K +. You should warm up your car. Why are you all so worried.Damn are you guys anal. You act like our cars are Bmws or Benzs. Speaking of which, BMWs have seperate gauges on the tach if you drive your car without warming it up.It tells you where you should shift if your engine is cold. Its like a blue line instead of a redline.Heard about it from a diehard german tuner.Interesting huh?

[BarracksSi]

Like someone else said, just read the damn manual.

Let it warm up until the idle speed drops down to normal, then drive freely.

The tranny's going to feel rough at first because, like the engine's oil, the transmission oil isn't all warmed up & distributed yet.

Tell ya what -- go to sleep wearing jogging gear. When you wake up in the morning, go straight outside -- do NOT stop to pee, do NOT pet the dog -- and start running down the block. The next day, do the same, except that before running, take a couple minutes to really wake up and do some stretching.

"Getting the blood flowing" isn't just a catchy phrase. Moving the fluids around and flushing contaminants really does help, whether it's your legs or your car's engine.

It just makes sense.

*takes the horse to the glue factory*

[RMC22]

Our cars pee? :o
lol
Good analogy.



Originally posted by BarracksSi
Like someone else said, just read the damn manual.

Let it warm up until the idle speed drops down to normal, then drive freely.

The tranny's going to feel rough at first because, like the engine's oil, the transmission oil isn't all warmed up & distributed yet.

Tell ya what -- go to sleep wearing jogging gear. When you wake up in the morning, go straight outside -- do NOT stop to pee, do NOT pet the dog -- and start running down the block. The next day, do the same, except that before running, take a couple minutes to really wake up and do some stretching.

"Getting the blood flowing" isn't just a catchy phrase. Moving the fluids around and flushing contaminants really does help, whether it's your legs or your car's engine.

It just makes sense.

*takes the horse to the glue factory*

[BarracksSi]

Originally posted by RMC22
Our cars pee? :o
lol

Yes, they do -- ever see at the condensation dripping on the ground after using the A/C on a humid day?

;)

[rs_1101]

DIE YOU STUPID HORSE DIEEEEE :mad: *thud* *thud* (beats horse)

[civicracer1128]

ya know...not all of us have been here for the first horse beating...questions get repeated all the time on pages like this. try one like vwvortex where there's REAL car problems instead of just new questions by people that havnt driven hondas forever. not everyone knows everything and neither does everyone who thinks they do. my point is that with 2000 miles on my car ive only seen this question 1 time.....and when it reapeats someone like me sees it for the first time.....then we all buy stickers and the page lives another year.;) support ephatch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....wait...i should order some;)

[priest6479]

I love people out West I swear, My parents Live in Las vegas, "Oh it drops to 30 sometimes".....When I woke up this morning it was 16 degrees outside!, and that is just a taste of things to come!From time to time it will be in the negatives!!!!

I let my car idle for about 5 minutes or so, sometimes more. By then the heat has started, my windows are defrosted and the car actually feels a little loose instead of that nice stiff cold feeling.

Leaving your car idling for about an hour in the morning is prob not a good idea, and just a waste of gas, but for a few minutes I would think it would be alright.

[variance]

Like ATRIOT said on the first page:

Up here in Canada (Toronto more specifically), the weather can be as bad as -30 Celsius (-22 Fahrenheit [sp?]), and with the windchill factor, it feels like -45Celsius (-49 F)!

So yes, when I start the car, I let it idle for a min simply because I have to scrap all the ice and shit off my car.

Personally, after idling for 30secs - 1min, I drive off very slowly. The only time I go "normal" driving, is when warm air starts blasting out of the vents. That's my indication of my engine being "warmed up."

Any other Canadians or our Americans-close-to-the-Canadian-border cousins do the same?

var

[Gs02SiR]

Thanks for all of the replies. I can handle the sarcasm as it is a small price to pay for the interesting opinions and technical insight that some members can contribute.

The objective of asking such a question was to guage the opinions of other drivers in similar circumstances. I have found my ep is a well built car, but definetly more fussy than other cars I have driven. My Toyota Corolla for one example, seemed to handle aggressive driving and cold weather a better then this car (although the car was a bore to drive). With all of the concerns regarding weak transmissions etc. I just wanted to make sure I am not inflicting further damage on an already picky car.

I do share the observation that much of the impatience with this questions seems to be from people who dont truly understand a "Canadian winter". Also, my outlook on life is to appreciate what you have. For me, buying a car I love this much makes me want to take care of it, and treat it in a way that will allow me to enjoy it(and improve upon it....turbo..??) for years to come. I would do this if it was a $2000 car or a $200,000 car.

And once again, I did search.

Thanks
G

[oldschoolimport]

Originally posted by variance
I let it idle for a min simply because I have to scrap all the ice and shit off my car. damn, I thought just ice was bad. how are you getting shit on your car. somebody must hate you :D :smilem:

[ATRIOT]

Originally posted by oldschoolimport
damn, I thought just ice was bad. how are you getting shit on your car. somebody must hate you :D :smilem:


Fuck it gets cold, thank god for keyless entry, last winter i used to have to heat up my key with a lighter to de-ice the locks. Yeah you know its cold when your deck flashes "Low Temp" warnings, just last night my ebrake froze up too. It sucks driving a big salty egg all winter.:sadm:

[SiR_d1]

I personally only let my car idle for 2 minutes, any mintue longer is just a waste of gas to me

[variance]

Originally posted by ATRIOT
Fuck it gets cold, thank god for keyless entry, last winter i used to have to heat up my key with a lighter to de-ice the locks. Yeah you know its cold when your deck flashes "Low Temp" warnings, just last night my ebrake froze up too. It sucks driving a big salty egg all winter.:sadm:

For real man! BTW: Great idea with the lighter + key = instant lock-de-icer!

Try getting stuck outside -40C windchill in the middle of a GO parking lot, and the goddamned key won't go into the goddamned keyhole!

I wish I had a lighter then. I just kept trying and it finally worked. Instead, my fucking door was frozen shut to my car! LOL!

This was with my mom's Jetta the previous year. This year tho, I hope things will get better.

Cheers,
var