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Chinaboy
12-06-2003, 07:02 PM
hey guys, I belong to a TSX forum as well on the web, there is this guy named VASU who wrote a long post, and now a sticky, it is the best car care FAQ i've ever read... I think we should make it a sticky... but here I go imma copy and paste this stuff...

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A lot of users have wondered what the best product to use was to protect their car. Should they use a wax? What are these synthetic polymers they've heard about, are they right for you? Here is a FAQ to address questions that may arise when you consider the use of synthetic polymers and other car care products. A lot of people had questions with these products and this guide helps to answer them as well as possible. Lets just say that the information that went into this was found to be very useful and informative and I hope to do the same on this new TSX
board.

Let me start off by saying that the absolute best way to protect your car is not by using waxes but
to use a product called a synthetic polymer. The application is similar, but the product is easier
to work with. At the same time they also last longer, protect better, and provide UV protection that
no wax could ever provide. For these reasons it is essential to use a synthetic polymer on your car
if you wish to provide long lasting protection, color richness, and overall beauty. So here's how
I take care of my car. It's a process that requires the least amount of work while ensuring maximum
protection.

FAQ categories will be seperated into seperate posts.

Chinaboy
12-06-2003, 07:03 PM
Personal Cleaning Process


Twice a year I do my hardcore detailing process. This is a 3 day process, and I'm lucky that I have a garage to do it in. I'll do this in June (right after spring finals) and in December (right after Fall finals). I'll use a weekend example, so friday saturday sunday.

Bi-Annual Detailing Processes



Wash car with Dawn Dishwashing Soap

Dry car with combination of The California Water Blade and Microfiber clothes . Both available at any Pep-Boys

Now that the paint is clean and dry, it's time to prep it. I use whatever clay bar I can find at Pep-Boys. Usually it's Mothers, there's also ClayMagic, Zaino also makes a great one from what I hear but cannot personally confirm. If I see an area of oxidation I use the FF Paint-Prep on it. It's also good at removing stubborn crap that might of gotten on the paint.

Friday at 5pm I'll apply the first coat of FF Polish (it's called a polish just because polymer confuses people). I'll let this sit on the car for 24 hours.

Saturday at around 5pm, I'll take it off. Since I'm slow and like to take breaks, I'll put the next coat on a little after 7 and be done by 8.

At 8am on Sunday I'll take that 2nd coat off and around 10am I'll put the 3rd coat on. I'll take this off that afternoon at 4pm. I'll spend a little extra time buffing with this last coat just to get a great shine.

I will then spend the next couple hours doing the same to my wheels (brake dust comes off easier from a protected wheel), headlights and tail lights. I don't do a 24 hour coat, maybe just a 1hr coat.

I use Stoner's Invisible Glass, and then RainX the windows and glass and mirrors. I also apply RainX Anti-Fog to the inside.

I use Finish First Interior Protectant with Lanolin on all the interior plastics and vinyls. I also use this on the plastic and rubber on the outside (the very bottom of the car , splash guards and any rubber strips and seals).

I will use Zymol Field Glaze detailing spray to get that extra bit of shine and get the "wet" carnuba look.

Lastly I run some Lysol spray through the air intake for the air conditioner at the base of the windshield, with the AC on. This helps to keep it free of bacteria, mildew, mold, spores, etc.



Regular Maintainence Schedule


Wash the car with the Finish First Wash and Conditioner

Dry with Water Blade/Microfiber

Spray on and buff to shine with Zymol Field Glaze quick detailing spray.

Wipe headlights/tail lights/windows and wheels clean. ( I just do a quick job)


I can do the maintainence part in about an hour, which isn't much time to spend every weekend or every other weekend to keep your car looking great.

So now that you know why you should use them and how I personally use them, here are answers to your most common questions about them:

Chinaboy
12-06-2003, 07:06 PM
Questions about Polymers

What is a synthetic polymer?
A synthetic polymer is an acrylic substance made from molecules that form plastics. Because it cures to the paint and forms an almost plastic like covering, it is very strong. Almost like layering the car with saran-wrap. Polymers differ from waxes in that they are not made from natural plant produced substances and are easier to apply and remove while providing better protection.

How much polymer do I use?
Not much is needed, an amount the size of a dime should cover a 2 square foot area. If you are concerned that this is not enough, do not use more, but instead apply another coat after removing the one you just put on. Not only will you end up using less, but it is less effort, and you'll get more uniform coverage.

What is layering?
Layering is a process is which you apply another coating of polymer on top of the one you already applied. Each subsequent layer can be applied for a shorter period of time, about half the time of the previous layer. The advantage is that you get more and more protection with each coating. You also get more and more shine with each application. For example do the first coat for 24 hours, then the 2nd coat for 12 hours, 3rd coat for 6 hours, etc.

It rained in between polymer coats, do I need to rewash?
Yes, even if the car looks clean there's a lot of stuff from the rain that is on the car. It might look clean, but it really isn't.

How well do polymers work with dark finishes?
The darker the finish on your car, the more you need to use a polymer protectant. Paint finishes such as black, tend to show blemishes more than lighter color cars. There for, it is more important to keep the paint looking good and being able to clean it with minimal effort, something you have to do often with black cars. Polymers allow for easy maintenance of a paint finish, so every time a blemish shows up on your black car, you'll be glad that it wont take you long to bring it back to looking great.

How can I get the same carnauba shine from a polymer?
Some polymer users will notice that the shine on their car is very mirror like. While some like this look, others find it to look a little lifeless and would prefer the wet look they got with their carnauba based waxes. There are two ways to achieve this. 1) After applying your coat(s) of polymer, apply a coat of carnauba wax on top. You aren't doing this for the protection as much as you are doing it for the look. Expect it to last for 2 weeks to a month at most before reverting to mirror like shine of the polymer. 2) Your other option is to use a quick detailer spray that uses plant oils. This will give you the same wet look as a wax, but will take less time and can be reapplied easily and more often. While it doesn't offer any protection, it doesn't really matter since you are doing it for looks.

How long do polymers last compared to waxes?
Depending on how many layers of polymer you put on and how well you let it bond for, you can expect coverage anywhere from 6 months to a full year. With a wax, depending on the climate, you can expect it to last, at most, for 2 months. 1 month is more realistic for uniform coverage.

I used a polymer but it didn't protect, why?
Lets say a carnauba wax is 3mm thick. It's very sticky and basically sticks to the paint. Think about smearing candle wax on something, it's a very sticky substance. But because it's a natural plant product (which can't be replenished and rebuilt from the plant), this also means that it gets dissolved quickly by rain and acids and bases. A polymer, comparatively, is only going to be 1mm thick (that's why when you do 3 coats of polymer, you start getting close to a carnauba shine, but you can't get the oily wet sheen). So while it's thinner, the polymer itself is stronger. But polymers are not a sticky substance like wax is. While the polymer itself is really strong (even at 1mm vs canbuba's 3mm), it can't do anything if it isn't on the car anymore. If a polymer can't bond to a paints surface (and it's a bonding process, not a sticking process like carnauba), it can't protect it well because it will literally come off of the car. If there's no polymer there to protect, it can't protect against bird poop. So if there is anything on the paint that has bonded (dust, sulfur, etc) and it hasn't been clayed/prepped first, OR if you don't let it adhere long enough, it can't chemically bond like it should, and thus will come off quickly. Polymers get their strength from bonding onto the purest paint surface possible and then never letting go (well for several months anyway). Waxes are kind of brutish in that they just rely on sheer thickness to protect your car. Polymers are thin yet hard, whereas carnauba's are thick yet (comparatively) soft. Without a really clean paint surface, and without proper bonding time (these chemical processes take time), the polymer wont be able to hold on that well.

Is it ok to use a polymer on glass and windshields?
Probably not. There is a UV coating either on or in the glass depending on who made it. Some will blend the UV coating into the glass while others apply it to the surface. Since polymers have some emulsification properties, there is a chance that putting a polymer could strip the glass of it's UV coating, if the coating is only on the surface and not blended in. It's probably best (and easier) to just use Rain-X.

Chinaboy
12-06-2003, 07:07 PM
Questions about Carnauba

Why do carnauba waxes have a different shine?
Carnauba based waxes use naturally occurring waxes and oils derived from plants. These oils will settle on the surface of the car and give it a wet look, similar to an oil slick.

How do you remove carnauba?
Unless you have a real hot date coming up, using a carnauba wax properly can be a lot of effort. You still need to let the first coat sit for 24 hours if that's all you plan to use, and after 24 hours a carnauba wax will dry really hard and be tough to remove. The hard way to remove carnauba is just to put your muscle into it and buff until it's shiny. The better way to do it is to sprinkle a little water onto the dried wax and then buff it off. This also helps to spread out the plant oils in the wax and give you a nice smooth, even, wet look.

Can you recommend a good carnauba wax?
The best wax is made by Zymol and their good carnaubas start at $50 and up. If you don't want to spend that much I recommend "Griots Garage Best of Show Wax". Has a great shine to it.

Chinaboy
12-06-2003, 07:08 PM
Questions about Clay

What is this clay stuff I keep hearing about?
Over time, particles can embed themselves in the porous surface of your car paint. These particles are more commonly referred to as environmental fallout and can include sulfur, metal filings, and pollen, dust and soot. Since these particles are embedded in the paint, a mere washing will not remove them. However, a product such as clay or paint prep will be able to. Clay works by rolling over the paint with a lubricant and literally sticking to the particle and pulling it out. Paint preps work by dissolving it out so that it can be removed with cloth.

How will I know if I need to clay my car?
Use a plastic food service glove (clear cellophane type) or if you can't find one you can use clear saran-wrap. Put the glove on, or wrap you finger in 1 layer of saran wrap. If the paint feels gritty to the touch after a washing, then it's time to clay.

How do I clay my car?
Think of claying the car like shaving. The clay bar is your razor, the embedded particles are the hair, and soapy water or a quick detail spray is like your shaving cream. In fact it's almost exactly like that. Spray the lubricant (soapy water or detailing spray) on a freshly dawn-washed car, and then wipe with a little pressure, the clay bar over the paint. The lubricant is so the clay wont stick to the paint completely, and when you wipe it over the paint the clay bar will pick up embeded particles while leaving the paint intact. Wipe up any excess fluid on the paint with a micro fiber cloth. (answer to: http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/sho...d=5262#post5262)

Is using a clay bar worth the time and effort?
Use a clay bar or paint prep product. There is a lot of stuff bonded to a car's paint surface that you wont be able to see. Without removing this debris, the polymer or wax will not be able to bond, and this is crucial for the first coat of protectant. I recommend claying/prepping at least twice a year, or as needed.

Should there be any sticking?
If the clay bar is sticking to the paint at all, or it feels like it's catching on somethng, then you need more lubricant. Spray more (either soapy water or detail spray) and try again, it shouldn't stick any more.

ssm_tsx also suggests spraying some of the lubricant on your fingers to keep the clay from sticking to you.

Do clay bars scratch the paint?
It is possible to scratch the paint if you do not use the clay bar properly. You must fold or knead the clay a bit as you use it so that you get a fresh and unused piece of clay. The best way to do it is to use a knife or piece of string and slice away a thin layer of the clay as it gets too dirty.

Will claying the car remove rust and 4-way protection offered by Acura?
No, it will leave the protection intact as it's applied during the paint process.

Chinaboy
12-06-2003, 07:11 PM
Questions about Brands

What are good polymers to use?
The best ones to use are Liquitech's Finish First (www.liqui-tech.com and www.finishfirstpolish.com), Zaino's Bros Z-2 (www.zainostore.com) and Klasse. Personally, Finish First is my favorite because it was easier to use and I personally got better results.

I notice you prefer Finish First's polymer over Zaino, why?
First off it's for personal reasons personal reasons. Zaino and Finish First are excellent products that will give you almost equal levels of protection. I found Zaino messy to work with however. I was not a fan of applying the Z1 product (which is supposed to remove contaminants) and then applying the Z2 on top of it. And now with ZFX that's another product to use. It just gets kind of complicated and messy when you're applying 3 liquid products on top of each other. I prefer to remove paint prep products (like Z1) before putting the protection on as it will give a better bond. However, Zaino does not instruct this. Please keep in mind that these are personal preferences and Zaino is still a great product.

What are the two biggest flaws of Zaino and Finish First
The biggest flaw of Zaino is that dust can settle on the car in between coats. They suggest letting the car sit without any additional coats for a period of 12-24 hours before adding your next coat. The problem here is dust can settle and then you seal in the dust which could scratch the paint, or the underlying layer of polymer. However if you can cover the car with a car cover, it becomes a non-issue. Meanwhile, the biggest flaw with Finish First is that they take a traditional approach to polymerizing and don't have any agents to accelerate the process. This means that the first coat has to be 24 hours for maximum protection, and a second coat should be 12 hours, etc. If you have the time and a garage of car cover, this is a non-issue.

What are all these Z products from Zaino?
The most common are Z-1, Z-2, Z-6 and ZFX. Z1 is a paint prep used to remove contamination. Z2 is the actual polymer and goes on top. ZFX can be applied the combination of Z1 and Z2 and will allow it to cure faster to the paint. Z6 is a gloss enhancer and does not provide any protection. It is a detailing spray product.

What is Zaino ZFX, do you recommend it?
ZFX is a product that accelerates the curing time of the Z2 polymer so that you don't have to let it cure for so many hours; it does indeed allow you to make the polymerizing process go faster. However, in my experience, the caveat is protection. When you throw ZFX into the mix, you get it done faster, but the level of protection goes down when you do Z2+ZFX for like 1 or 2 hours (I can't remember how long they recommend using it) vs using Finish First or regular Zaino Z2 for 24 hours. I guess the ZFX is fine if you're in a hurry. Just realize that while the job will get done faster, it wont get done better. Do not expect the same level of protection when using ZFX as when you do a good 24 bond. If you are using the ZFX you should switch to polymerizing 4 times a year instead of two. You will still get protection that will be better and last longer than a traditional wax, but if you have to time to use Zaino or Finish First for a full 24 hours, that's what I advise.

What is a good detailing spray?
My current favorite is Zymol Field Glaze. They also sell one you can find in any AutoZone called "Detail", which is exactly the same except it has less Carnuba sap in it. For the most part, the advantage to using quick detail sprays is to enhance and maintain the gloss on the car. The polymer will do the protecting, so the detailing spray is just to make it look better and also to give the car a just waxed/wet look after a wash. So if this is just for vanity, you want something that will have oils in it that are the definition of a just waxed/wet look. Zymol Field Glaze contains: Carnauba Sap, Avocado Oil, Coconut Oil, Esters, and Propolis (derived from Bees). The polymer is for protection and initial shine while this detailing spray is for that show car look.

Chinaboy
12-06-2003, 07:12 PM
Questions about General Care/Cleaning

What motion should I use for washing and protecting?
In the olden days, the most common method was to use a circular motion. However these days, whether you are washing the car or applying/removing a protectant, you should use straight back and forth motions in the direction of the length of the car.

How do I know what soap to use?
There are only 2 kinds of soap you should ever use to wash your car. Use a dishwashing soap such as Dawn to watch it every time to want to clean everything off and start new. If you are reapplying coats of polymer and you want to clay the car again, it use best to strip everything with Dawn. For maintenance, it is best to use a car wash shampoo that will not strip wax.

What should I wash my car with?
Forum member DEVO highly recommends using soft bristle car brushes from OXO (www.oxo.com). These brushes use very soft bristles that wont scratch the paint and also allow the cleaning process to go by faster. Futhermore, since the bristles don't hold on to dirt, there's no risk of scratching the paint from respreading the dirt back into the paint.

However if you prefer a more traditional approach, either foam or cotton is fine. If you are using cotton, make sure to be careful and not drop it, and rinse it out often. With foam, wring it out often and rinse it out as well. The main thing to remember is not to drop it, and also don't wring out dirty water into the bucket!

Can I use car washes at my gas station?
After making sure the car is clayed and properly polymerized, you should be fine with a gas station car wash. Just make sure to skip the hot wax and use a micro-fiber cloth to dry the car completely as soon as you drive through the car wash and are still at the gas station. Finish it up with a detailing spray and you are good to go.

Do pressure wash systems affect polymer?
The pressure alone will not destroy your polymer paint protection, but if used incorrectly the pressure can chip your paint. For example, if you hold such strong pressure too close to the surface of your car for an extended period, it may cut through the clear coat and maybe even the paint. (answered by hondacious)

Is the soap in commercial pressure wash systems ok?
I'll try to answer this question the best way I can w/o criticizing one's car wash business. Commercial car wash soap is fine as long as it is diluted to the correct strength. The foam soap should be nice and foamy, not watery. The wax used at these car wash systems are worth using because they do work, but for a very limited amount of time because of external factors working against the protection of the wax. Also, because more than likely it is carnauba based and because it is not hand applied the next time you wash it look for that wax to be good as gone. (answered by hondacious)

How do I get rid of bug splatter?
Take a bounce fabric softener and wet it. Rub the wet sheet on the bug guts and they come off the car very easily. Wash the car normally afterwards and everything is gone. (tip by BamaTSX) Another method is to use a diluted degreaser mixture. 5 parts water to 1 part degreaser. Do not allow the solution to sit on the car but remove immediately. (tip by hondacious)

What are good ways to dry the car?
The california water blade is a great way to quickly remove the bulk of the water off the surface of the car. It is made from soft silicone and will not scratch your paint. To finish up the process and dry up the remaining amounts if water, use a micro-fiber cloth or synthetic chamois.

Should I use a rubbing compound?
Only if you want to destroy your paint, or have some serious paint issues you have to resolve by repainting. Compounds will eat through clear coat and are meant for old non-clear coat cars. The modern day replacement, for the most part, will be a paint prep product.

Should I use cloth or foam pads to apply stuff?
The foam pads are better to use because they will not harden up. They are also cheap so you can just replace them instead of trying to wash them.

What should I use to remove stuff?
Microfiber clothes. They polish well and hold on to debris from when you remove products.

How can I keep the car looking great?
If you can wash the car normally with soap and water, then do so once a week or once every two weeks. Follow it up with a quick detail spray to maintain the shine. The polymer will last a long time so you just need to properly remove the surface dirt. Washing a polymerized car should be a quick affair and you can maintain the just cleaned shine with a detail spray.

Are quick detailers worth it?
Most people find that they enhance the shine and make the car smoother and more slippery. They are also good for quick touchups. Products like Zaino Z6 and LiquiTech's Finish Fast are quick detailers.

Is the California Car Duster good?
I'm not personally a fan. It picks up a lot of dirt and debris and that will accumulate in it's bristles. Over time this may cause it to scratch the paint when wiped over it.

What are some good products to use on misc parts?
Stoner's makes a great one called Invisible glass, and Rain-X has a cleaning wipe that also protects. For your tires use either the Stoner's tire spray or the Meguire's tire product (gels and sprays). For interior plastics I like Finish First's interior protector.. it has lanolin and "plasticizers" that help replenish the plastic and bring back a new car smell.

seandwd
12-29-2003, 10:25 PM
WOW!! That is a wealth of info. I have never used a Polymer, but I think I may try it soon. Thanks!!

AkronSi
12-30-2003, 07:52 AM
Some other great places to check out are :

Autopia (http://www.autopia.org)

Better Car Care (http://www.bettercarcare.com/)

There are tons of places online to get any sort of synthetic or natural wax that your heart desires.

One think I'd ad is that I would never use a brush on my car unless it was natural boar's hair. Even then, I'v be a little aprehensive.

Also, it's sort of a phylisophical thing, but the more I think about Dawn, the more useless I think it is. I guess for somethings it might make sense ( I know it's pretty much manditory for Zaino).