HondaTech-Let's talk oil [Archive]

Mechanic

06-29-2002, 08:02 AM

HondaTech,

If you're out there, I have a question, but let me ramble for a minute, if you don't mind.

On a couple of other threads, the writers said that Honda had gone to a 10k oil-change interval (5k for "severe service"). That seemed extreme to me, so I looked it up, and sure enough, that's what's in the new Si owner manual.

Because I still have a few Honda owners manuals around to compare the new one with, I noted that on the page which discusses the break-in period, it says not to change the oil before it's required by the maintenance schedules on pages 158-161. That's where the 5k and 10k intervals are listed. As I said, that's new to the Si manual.

Still w/me? Honda implies that it has some "special" oil in the crankcase of it's new cars. But, I seem to recall that about four years ago, Honda worked a deal with Pennzoil to sell Pennzoil as "Honda Motor Oil." It's just re-branded and sold in a different color bottle. So, I'm having a hard time accepting the idea of leaving the original oil in my car for 5k. And, I'm having a harder time still accepting the idea of not changing the filter for 10k miles. (That, too, conforms to the "severe service" schedule.

So, my question to you is: what's in the crankcase of new Honda Si that prompts the factory to recommend leaving that scudzy stuff in there for thousands of miles?

DynaSpeed

06-29-2002, 08:49 AM

In my travels and discussions with others on new cars and their break-in periods has led me to believe something - New Cars from the dealership *DO* have a different lubricant in the crank-case. I spoken to others and they say, "Yes, if you look in your crankcase right when you get a new vehicle from the dealership, the lubricant is *green* for some kind of break-in properties".
I was extremely skeptical about this, so I checked it out myself and, lo and behold, it *does* have a greenish tint. I haven't brought this question out to an actual authorized new-car mechanic from a dealership, so it is completely an assumption.
I sure wish I knew what was going on :) :confused:

Mechanic

06-29-2002, 09:10 AM

Yea, this is weird. We gonna run this to ground. Somebody's got to know whether the auto industry has really come up with something new under the sun.

(I should add that, while I bill myself as "Mechanic" here, I haven't be paid as one for a long, long time. Let's just leave it at that, ok?, lest you wonder how old someone can be and still type and shift gears.)

But, I think of myself as a knowledgeable motorhead, and this has really got me wondering what's up that would cause Honda to tell a new car buyer NOT to change the delivery oil. My concern is that Honda's gone "Green" on us - trying to discourage owners from changing oil early to accommodate the environmentalists. Hey, I like trees as much as the next guy, but the junk that comes out of a new car sump after 1000 miles is really grungy stuff. I've NEVER failed to change the oil and filter at 1k, and I don't want to stop the practice unless there's a good reason for doing so.

Hondatech

06-29-2002, 09:50 AM

There is, indeed, a factory "Break In" fill in your car. Oddly enough, the dealership I work for (and every other dealership staff I've spoken to while on training) all recommend following the "Severe Service" schedule in the Manual. That means change your oil every 8,000 kilometers (~5000 miles)

So what does that mean for the Break In oil? Leave it in for 5000 miles, change it, and then get on a better schedule if you love your car ;)

My personal plans involve (after 5K miles), changing it every 2.5K miles with synthetic 5W30 (Castrol Syntec, all I ever feed my Hondas)) I don't really trust the 5w20 oil for my intended application:

"Bwwwaaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwwaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwaaaaa...."

DynaSpeed

06-29-2002, 10:30 AM

So what does that mean for the Break In oil? Leave it in for 5000 miles, change it, and then get on a better schedule if you love your car

Alright HondaTech, how about this one? I've sucked up a good amount of this "green" stuff. I'm probably about almost a quart low as we speak. Therefore, do I put in some 5w20? or just change it outright, or what????

And, to add insult to injury, this puts me in a bind even farther because I get free oil changes at the dealership that I bought it from for life. They won't let you come in every weekend though, ya know what I mean? They want you to come in at 3750, and I have about 2200 right now.

SiCivic2k2

06-29-2002, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by Hondatech
"Bwwwaaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwwaaaaaaa *Bark!* Bwwwaaaaa...."

lol

Hondatech

06-29-2002, 04:16 PM

DynaSpeed,

Top it up with 5W20. Leave as much of the break-in oil as you can in the motor for at LEAST 4000 miles, then start getting the oil changed.

DynaSpeed

06-30-2002, 09:57 AM

Cool, Thanks Hondatech... Just got some 5w20 at the store.

Mechanic

07-02-2002, 02:37 AM

Just to keep the ball in play, I sent the following e-mail to the guys at info@inlinefour.com:

"I found your webpage via ClubSi. I have a new 2002 Si, and have owned lots of Hondas (and a sprinkling of Acuras). I've always changed the factory oil and filter at 1000 miles, and have never had a problem in years (and 100k's of miles) of ownership. The owner's manual in my new Si states I should not change the factory oil until the I've run at least 5,000 miles. What gives?

Maybe I should add that I got through school in the '60s working as a VW mechanic, so I'm not a rookie under the hood of a car ('though the electronics are way beyond me!). Thanks."

This is what I got back: "Every 3,000 is perfect. If you do it sooner, even better. Think of it as cleansing your engine, you aren't harming it by doing it sooner than recommended. As long as your check it often you should have a good idea of when the next oil change is due."

Sincerely,
"The Specialists in Acura/Honda Tuning"
www.inlinefour.com

SiCivic2k2

07-02-2002, 05:31 AM

Thanks Mechanic!

DynaSpeed

07-02-2002, 05:39 AM

Ah HA! I knew it.

I'm changing my oil every day. :D

todaCspec

07-02-2002, 09:16 AM

the main concern is break in period. i thought for the first 1000 miles,your suppose to change. if they recommend 5w-20,why use 5w-30? also if you're short a quart of oil why not bring it back to dealer and ask why does the manual say something totally different.(changing at 5k)
changing at 5k, any engine will start burning oil,right? very dirty!

DynaSpeed

07-02-2002, 10:35 AM

i thought for the first 1000 miles,your suppose to change. 5k for the first change cuz of the super-duper break-in oil that the factory puts in it... then 3750 after that. (per honda)

if they recommend 5w-20,why use 5w-30
Cuz he's gonna drive it *not* like normal people. In the ubiquitous quote... "BWaaaaaa *Bark* BWaaaaa *Bark*".. a thicker oil at temp will hold up better under these conditions.

if you're short a quart of oil why not bring it back to dealer and ask why does the manual say something totally different
I was... but, all they're gonna do is throw in a quart of some 5w20 and have me on my way until the 5k change. I figured I could save some time by doing that all by myself.

02si

07-02-2002, 06:28 PM

Honda tech
You got a second to change the subject.
Oil.. all good but I have a situation here.
Ok, say you picked up an 02 si and it was the sheit.
You modded with aftermarket wheels from your old accord (215/45 17). They have slight camber wear and are possibly out of balance. Get out on freeway and feel a shudder from rear driver side wheel. You immediately limp home, switch out the wheels, and go back out.
Immediately you notice uneven handling. More dip from the rear suspension. You are riding a couple milimeters lower on the driver side and the stiffness normally associated with the rear02 suspension is gone.

Car sets up in corner but does it with unacceptable body.
Wants to go with road crown. Lots of float at high speeds.

Would you suspect
Alignment problem
bushing wear or tear
strut and spring problem

I'm ruling out strut and spring prob because I don't see how wheels could blow struts if no potholes were taken.

I think Something else was pulled or tugged out of balance.

What do you think.

Hondatech

07-02-2002, 09:28 PM

You say the tires have Camber wear. So they're worn in to the way the old Accord sat (The Accord was lowered, I gather?). Now they're on another car with totally different suspension. I'd suspect the uneven wear as one of the causes of your shudder. Probably time for fresh rubber and a good balance. Unless you bashed all the weights off when you took 'em off your Accord, the balance shouldn't be too off, or you woulda noticed it on the old car too.

Now, you went back and swapped stock tires and wheels back on? And it's still wonky? Don't mean to sound like a dink, but you're 100% sure the lug nuts are tight, and any of the hubcentric spacer rings from the others wheels aren't still on the hub getting squiched by the stock rims?

Mechanic

07-03-2002, 05:03 AM

We have moved off topic, but here's my hunch: I guessing that when you took the original wheels and tires of your car you didn't pay much attention to which wheel and tire was where when you took them off. Now you've put them back on the car, and they may not be where they started out. So, depending on how long they were on the car before you started swapping them around, no doubt each tire was developing some unique wear pattern. Also, before you started experimenting, you probably weren't thinking about whether the car was drifting at speed or had a slight tire imbalance. Now that you've gone back to the OEM wheels and tire, which probably aren't mounted on the same place (hub, axle) on the car, you are noticing everything, and they're driving you nuts.

Here my 2-cents: Take your OEM wheels/tires into a decent tire shop and ask that they be rebalanced. That's cheap. At the same time, you and the tech can look at the remaining tread and decide if it would be desirable to shave the tires to a uniform tread depth. That, too, is cheap. Then when you put the tires back on the car, unless the car needs some suspension repair (bent tie rod, worn spring perches, etc.) or the toe-in is hopelessly out-of-whack, it should track straight as a die.

Finally, if it were my car, I wouldn't run a set of wheels on it that didn't have the same offset as the OEM wheels. That's a sure way to eat up a set of wheel bearings, and out-of-spec wheels place an entirely different set of loads on all the suspension components. Again, just my 2-cents

02si

07-05-2002, 08:45 PM

No hubcentric spacer rings.
I would of noticed those, right?.
Lugs are tight. The dealer test drove the car when I took it back to them to see if they'd do an alignment after I messed it up. Since the car didn't wander to badly and the bouncing up and down movements weren't to pronounced, they just adjusted tire pressure and tightened lugs.
If the service manager had driven on different roads and driven like he was looking for what I told him about I may have the wheel alignment/caster adjustment/toe adjustment that was thrown out of wack by those 17's.

If not the hubcentric spacers or lug nuts what's your next diagnosis?

I scheduled an appointment at another dealer for this tuesday morning to have an alignment done under factory warranty.

What do think about that?

02si

07-07-2002, 08:32 PM

That last blurb was the most insightful tech talk I've heard since I proposed this issue to many a car buddy.
Needless to say there I didn't want to bump everyone else off this post but good tech advise is so hard to come by.

Tire shop: is discount tire decent enough?
Tie rods: Why/how might they be bent?
Spring perches: How/why might they be worn
Aghhh(drooling like Homer Simpson) Wheel Bearings: What are these.
Lastly: How can Toe in be hopelessly out of whack. Can't it be adjusted back to normal and wrenched well enough that it stays that way?

If it helps, at low speed like backing out of a driveway (1mph) there is this popping,cracking noise coming from that same driverside rear suspension assembly. I sleuthed to find I could mimic the noise by using my hand to push and pull on the top of the strut in its perch.
Could this give stick to the worn spring perch thing.

I have this car scheduled for warranty work to try to repair whats wrong in two days. How would you forecast my attempt to get the dealer to make repairs?

Hondatech

07-07-2002, 10:20 PM

Without being able to drive and inspect tyhe car myself, it could be any number of things. But please, let us know what the dealer finds when they do the warranty repairs.

Mechanic

07-08-2002, 03:20 PM

We started out w/oil and have now progressed to tires -- I leave it to our administrators to decide if this belongs elsewhere (probably).

I was asked: "Is Discount Tire decent enough [to figure out what may be wrong with 'o2Si's suspension]?

Your Discount Tire store may be a great one. (Because I'm not familiar w/yr store, I have to defer to your judgment.) When I need to get something done like this (mount tires, for example), I usually plug into a local club (Porsche Club of America here in No. Virginia), and ask a club member to recommend a good shop where the techs are willing to work with me to figure out what I need. Generally speaking, Discount Tire shops, because they are part of a chain, are interested in solving problems quickly, selling tires or products, and getting you out the door. That may not be your best option here I 'd start by asking around.

Tie rods: How could they be bent?
Spring perches: How could they be worn?
Toe-in out of whack: How is that possible?

O2Si: The items I mentioned before were possible areas to check based on what you described you Si was doing after you mounted a non-spec wheel-and-tire combination. Suspension components are pretty rugged; it takes a lot to bend something or push it out of adjustment. But, that "popping/crackling" sound you described certainly doesn't sound normal - far from it. Assuming your car drove normally before you mounted the 17" rims (from an Accord?), and you didn't have strange noises before then, it makes sense to try to work backwards and try to imagine what those 17" rims might have done to your car while you were driving it.

Trying to diagnose your problem by e-mail involves a lot of guess work. While I can suggest a couple of things, you and I aren't likely to get luck until someone who does this work for a living can look at the car and inspect the tires and suspension.

Can it be fixed? Sure. Assuming the problem doesn't stem from one of the tires you put back on the car (previously discussed), you can correct whatever is now causing your car to tramline or drift, and that can probably be accomplished with a simple alignment to specs. But, because there are so many variables involved, I'd be guessing if I tried to suggest "the" solution by e-mail. That's why you need a technician who is willing to spend some time with you to figure out what happened first, rather than just doing "things" hoping to fix whatever may be the problem. Ok

02si

07-08-2002, 07:05 PM

Oh yeah It's Ok.
You seem like good people.
We really need someone to look after these si boys.You are doing a good job of it.
Without people like you these boards quickly become slum villages (no pun intended).

Yes or no should I tell the tech I put on aftermarket rims if he asks.
Everyone I talk to says no because it will void warranty.

I think I will.
I want these issues resolved.

Mechanic

07-09-2002, 04:29 AM

You asked whether you should be forthright in telling the tech who looks at your car that you think your problem may stem from driving on a set of aftermarket 17" Accord wheels. Yep, I do.

If you don't tell the tech what brought you to his door, he may never be able to figure out what caused the problem he's now trying to solve. So, he ends up stumbling in the dark. Or, worse, he immediately figures out that you are trying to deceive him as to the source of the problem. Then you end up in an adversarial relationship, and it's just not worth it.

As for warranty issue, you're right that the repairs to the suspension, if any are required, may not be covered under the warranty. (Nor should they, really. We both know the problem wasn't the manufacturer's fault, right?) But, the only part of your warranty affected will be those caused by the use of non-stock parts. In other words, you may be stuck for the cost of an alignment or any replacement suspension parts required, but the rest of the vehicle warranty (engine, tranny, power-steering, etc.) remains in place.

By the way, that snapping sound that you described may (I emphasize MAY) be coming from a front universal joint where the axle meets the front wheel hub. Again, I'm really guessing here, but it possible that the out-of-spec geometry of the Accord wheels was so extreme that it caused one or more of the universal joints at the ends of the axles to bind while you were driving the car. (There are four universal joints, by the way; one on each end of each front axle. There is an axle on each side of the transmission.) Usually you can diagnose a bad u-joint by turning the steering wheel all the way to one side and slowing driving in a circle. Do it in one direction and then the other. A defective u-joint will make a very noticeable snapping and grinding sound. Ok?

JSIR

07-09-2002, 06:15 PM

A lot of the break in oils are just very thin viscosity oils designed to help the parts mate quickly, no special additives or any snake oil stuff. But Honda is using harder cylinder liners in the k20 engines (compared to the softer liners in previous b-series engines), perhaps they want the extra time for the rings to mate properly to the harder cylinder liners. Regardless I swapped my stock oil at 1500 miles to 5w-30 Castrol GTX, will not go back to 5-20 for any reason, car runs great and dyno's good numbers so that is good enough for me, no need to worry about when I "should" have changed it.

Joey

Az02Si

07-09-2002, 06:32 PM

Im with JSIR on this one,i pulled my oil at roughly 1500ish,and it was just like THIN chocolate milk.It was honestly watery,and that made me a tad bit nervous.Oil shouldnt have looked like mine did when i pulled it.But i also threw in some castrol 5-30,and been fine so far.The oil is still clean after 2K miles,unlike that crap that came in the car.I was a quart low after 1K miles with the original oil,and it was pretty damn dirty too.

FourJays

07-09-2002, 08:59 PM

For you Mobil 1 fans (like me), Mobil is coming out with a 5W-20 full synthetic by the end of this year. That's what'll be going in my Si.

Mechanic

07-10-2002, 04:13 AM

I, too, am a Mobil 1 enthusiast. One short story: For several years, while I was assigned to the Naval base in Norfolk, VA, I "commuted" home to Arlington, VA, each weekend. The trip is about 140 miles each way. I made it a point to check the oil level each week at a rest stop along the way. Before I switched to Mobil 1 (from Castrol, by the way), there were times in the summer when the dip stick was so hot I couldn't touch the end that had been in the oil for more than the instant it took to wipe it off. I mean it was HOT. Certainly that was to be expected, because I had just pulled off an interstate where I had been running 70-75 in a '90 Civic Si, which (like the current model Si) was geared "short" -- 3750 rpm at 70 mph.

Anyhow, I decided to switch to Mobil 1, 5w-30, for the heat protection afforded by synthetic motor oil. I didn't expect the engine to run any cooler, I just expected the synthetic to have greater viscosity endurance at high temperature.

Well, I got that, but I got two additional benefits: I noticed immediately that the engine oil wasn't as hot when operating under the same conditions. This was no scientific test, of course, but the end of the dip stick was MUCH cooler to the touch. And, I also picked up a couple of miles per gallon of gas.

I haven't used anything but Mobil 1 since. It's a good product. As soon as I get a couple of thousand miles on this new engine, I'll swap to it. As for the availability of 5w-20, I change oil often enough anyhow that I'll probably run 5w-30 in the summer and 5w-20 when the outside temps drop below 50 degrees.

02si

07-12-2002, 07:30 PM

Went in
Tech looked at car first thing in the morning
Service manager came out an hour later
Said they couldn't find anything structurally wrong. Put it up on the hoist. No leaks, no bends.
Said he test drove it and the car did everything it was supposed to.
I took him out for another test drive. He drove the car for a 5 mile loop to some spots of mine. Each time I noticed something that was unsettling he just talk over it and said the car felt normal.
Said the free wheel alignment within the first year printed in the warranty manual is only if they find a reason to do it. They found no reason.
However when I got the car back I did notice that something had been tightened. The arrid neverending search for bite in the a corner from thar driver side rear wheel had be 65% remedied. Float and wander were different and better.
There is still lag though, and turn in is still not the kick in the but on normal 02 si's.
I still can't force pressure on my left front tire in the corner like I can on the right.
I demonstrated that popping noise for him at low speed and he thought it may of been a bushing.
Said they would replace it when I brought the car in for some trunk latch they found to be broken.
I can only hope that after they go in to replace that bushing they put everything back together to factory spec and my new car balance magically falls out of the mix.
Keep in mind this guy was like 40or 50 something. The tech that actually did the work on the car was brought out when they first explained they couldn't find anything wrong, and he seemed cool but I didn't get a chance to "bond" with him.
Standard procedure.
Thankfully no popping, or cracking sounds at any real speed or while turning. Only when inching by waitng on stop light to turn colors.
I really hope its just a bushing thats out of place.
I forgot to mention that when I drive hard into a left handed turn and the right suspension picks up beautifully the left rear actually has the nerve to push giving a tippy feeling through the corner. It like puts extra pressure on the right passenger side front tire to stick because it carrying an additional amount of weight. That is so weird. For a novice expert like me I have no way of understanding that.
Then when you get in gas to exit corner and teleport down the street the that same drivers ise rear wheel that just tried to tip the car over won't set up so the power gets down through the front wheels. Some of the power gets lost in the suspension because of the softness of one of the rears.
I really hope Its just a bushing that got over stressed or something.

Tekdemon

01-17-2003, 02:04 AM

Back on the oil topic...I now have 600 miles(yay this is supposedly Honda's break in period according to the manual, but then why is the oil change at 5k?!) so I've been feeling like I can start driving for real...on the other hand, this watery crud is starting to scare me(I haven't actually yet checked the oil...yes I know I should have done it that time I filled up with gas or the other time I filled up with gas[hmm...did I fill up with 87 the first time??? I might have], but I'm an idiot and there were gas lines and I'm an idiot =P

I will check the levels tommorrow or something(it's going in for an inspection tommorrow or saturday for insurance reasons anyway) but now I'm starting to wonder whether I should keep the factory fill in and drive gently until 5K(seriously, do they expect Si owners to drive gently past the 600 mile "break-in" period in the manual!?) or whether to dump it and hunt down some of that Mobil 1 stuff...

Speaking of which, when I finally do change the oil(no matter when) I wanna use Mobil 1....but I've read before somewhere that if the original oil isn't synthetic and you want to switch to synthetic you have to do something? Or is that just for engines that have been running conventional for years?

02SilverSiHB

01-17-2003, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Tekdemon
Back on the oil topic...I now have 600 miles(yay this is supposedly Honda's break in period according to the manual, but then why is the oil change at 5k?!) so I've been feeling like I can start driving for real...on the other hand, this watery crud is starting to scare me(I haven't actually yet checked the oil...yes I know I should have done it that time I filled up with gas or the other time I filled up with gas[hmm...did I fill up with 87 the first time??? I might have], but I'm an idiot and there were gas lines and I'm an idiot =P

I will check the levels tommorrow or something(it's going in for an inspection tommorrow or saturday for insurance reasons anyway) but now I'm starting to wonder whether I should keep the factory fill in and drive gently until 5K(seriously, do they expect Si owners to drive gently past the 600 mile "break-in" period in the manual!?) or whether to dump it and hunt down some of that Mobil 1 stuff...

Speaking of which, when I finally do change the oil(no matter when) I wanna use Mobil 1....but I've read before somewhere that if the original oil isn't synthetic and you want to switch to synthetic you have to do something? Or is that just for engines that have been running conventional for years?
I've been changing my oil every 5k miles and I'm doing fine. I check the oil regularly and everything is good to go. I have Honda do, as I'm too lazy these days to change my own oil

silver ep

01-17-2003, 08:13 AM

So whats wrong with using regular 5w20 conventional oil?

Tekdemon

01-17-2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by silver ep
So whats wrong with using regular 5w20 conventional oil?
Nothing really, it's just really cold up here and starting up the car is worse for the engine if you're running conventional in the cold. The conventional oil becomes more sludgy at lower temps vs synthetic so it takes a little longer to warm it up and pump it all over the parts to protect.

However, in normal weather conditions and starting, conventional is fine and if you keep changing it there's not much difference vs synthetic....which keeps it's viscosity a little longer.

silver ep

01-17-2003, 04:12 PM

Tekdemon:
Thanks for the helpful info! ;)

JSIR

01-18-2003, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by silver ep
So whats wrong with using regular 5w20 conventional oil?

there are two things that protect your engine when it comes to motor oil.

Firstly the strength of the boundary lube between two moving parts helps protect from experiencing metal to metal contact. As the viscosity becomes thinner and thinner with newer weight oils the chance of the boundary lube rupturing increases under hard driving and as the oil ages (shears). Synthetic oils reportedly have better boundary lube protection compared to conventional oils.

Secondly, once the boudary lube ruptures, if you have good anti-wear additives in the oil they can protect from metal to metal contact.

Thus with the thinner 5w-20 and 0w-20 oils I would definitely recommend a good synthetic brand to at least give you the strongest boundary lube possible. If you go with a conventional oil , then you should chose an oil with additional anti-wear additives in it to help protect when the thinner viscosity can't cope with certain driving conditions. I would highly recommend Castrol GTX 5w-20, it is the only conventional oil of that weight that uses about 250 parts per million of "moly" anti-wear additive. No other conventional over the counter oil has that. The Castrol engineers obviously know something that the average person doesn't realize, thus they include some extra protection in their formula.

The factory fill (break-in oil) had lots of moly anti-wear addtives in it (over 800 ppm), sadly the Honda re-fill oil you get at the dealer doesn't contain any such additive.

Mobil1 Synthetic oil was reformulated with their new Supersyn product, and they have added moly to their oil, thus you are getting a good synthetic and anti-wear addtives all in one package, probably the best way to go IMO if you want to run a 20 weight oil.

I am currently running a 5w-30 synthetic oil, but I plan on testing a good 0w-20 oil after this drain interval is completed, with oil analysis testing of both oils for comparison.

Tekdemon

01-19-2003, 02:30 AM

Originally posted by JSIR

there are two things that protect your engine when it comes to motor oil.

Firstly the strength of the boundary lube between two moving parts helps protect from experiencing metal to metal contact. As the viscosity becomes thinner and thinner with newer weight oils the chance of the boundary lube rupturing increases under hard driving and as the oil ages (shears). Synthetic oils reportedly have better boundary lube protection compared to conventional oils.

Secondly, once the boudary lube ruptures, if you have good anti-wear additives in the oil they can protect from metal to metal contact.

Thus with the thinner 5w-20 and 0w-20 oils I would definitely recommend a good synthetic brand to at least give you the strongest boundary lube possible. If you go with a conventional oil , then you should chose an oil with additional anti-wear additives in it to help protect when the thinner viscosity can't cope with certain driving conditions. I would highly recommend Castrol GTX 5w-20, it is the only conventional oil of that weight that uses about 250 parts per million of "moly" anti-wear additive. No other conventional over the counter oil has that. The Castrol engineers obviously know something that the average person doesn't realize, thus they include some extra protection in their formula.

The factory fill (break-in oil) had lots of moly anti-wear addtives in it (over 800 ppm), sadly the Honda re-fill oil you get at the dealer doesn't contain any such additive.

Mobil1 Synthetic oil was reformulated with their new Supersyn product, and they have added moly to their oil, thus you are getting a good synthetic and anti-wear addtives all in one package, probably the best way to go IMO if you want to run a 20 weight oil.

I am currently running a 5w-30 synthetic oil, but I plan on testing a good 0w-20 oil after this drain interval is completed, with oil analysis testing of both oils for comparison.
Yeah I've been waiting for the weight to match what the manual says...5w-20 is really unpopular. I'm guessing 0w-20 shouldn't be any worse on my engine than 5w-20 if they're both the same otherwise(like both mobil 1, etc.)...hopefully anyway...

Anyways I still have quite some miles to go before my first oil change so hopefully the mobil 1 will hit the market soon! Let me know howthe 0w-20 compares to the 5w-30...I drive in a cold climate right now so I'm thinking the lower viscosity would help in speeding up coating the engine?