thinkin bout de-modding cept for hondata

[kenis138]

so looking at the hondata page for our cars, compare the two dyno plots and look carefully. They are on a slightly different scale so you hae to go through on a point by point basis and compare the hp/torque levels at each point. What you will notice is that hondata with stock setup performs better across the board than hondata with intake and header, except for above 7k.
Biggest difference is in the 3-k range, check it out.
I know this point has been discussed to death, but i never looked at it quite this way before.
Now I'm thinkin bout takin off my SRI and header...thoughts?

[rs_1101]

go for it. but first. get before and after qm times. or some kind of time. so u can compare

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by kenis138
so looking at the hondata page for our cars, compare the two dyno plots and look carefully. They are on a slightly different scale so you hae to go through on a point by point basis and compare the hp/torque levels at each point. What you will notice is that hondata with stock setup performs better across the board than hondata with intake and header, except for above 7k.
Biggest difference is in the 3-k range, check it out.
I know this point has been discussed to death, but i never looked at it quite this way before.
Now I'm thinkin bout takin off my SRI and header...thoughts?
go for it! try and get before and after dynos if you can. I know hondata and even said that something wasn't quite right with their dyno of the one with i/h/e..every car is different I guess...could have been the car just being quirky, who knows, but it's the same car with before and after dynos...so i can't ask for much more.
At least keep the intake...it seems optimized for the hondata...imo. I'm hoping to get the flash here in a couple of months..just have to have the right timing to not be able drive the car while I wait :D

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by kenis138
so looking at the hondata page for our cars, compare the two dyno plots and look carefully. They are on a slightly different scale so you hae to go through on a point by point basis and compare the hp/torque levels at each point. What you will notice is that hondata with stock setup performs better across the board than hondata with intake and header, except for above 7k.
Biggest difference is in the 3-k range, check it out.
I know this point has been discussed to death, but i never looked at it quite this way before.
Now I'm thinkin bout takin off my SRI and header...thoughts?

I just want to say you are way off with thinking that the gains are depleted when you deviate from stock. Hondata has not shown any gains on the dyno for the stock vs. modded I/H/E setup. Doug dynoed the I/H/E and TB mod when he tuned for this flash. What we did see was that when the hondata was put on the dyno, regardless of the setup, (we tested a variety of stock and modded EP's) it really did not show an improvement over one from the other. The modded EP's were higher in HP and Tq, but that was expected. Where the true difference lies is in the driving experience and 1/4 mile times, because of the raised rev limit and advanced timing. The car runs more responsive on the road, but the dyno has little to show for it. hth.

[kenis138]

I guess the bottom line hypothesis i am testing is this:

Is Hondata+Stock > than Hondata+mods (at least low end)?

You can see on the dyno that they are the same above 5k, like you said. So that's the question I am asking, I think the question you answered was "Is I/H/E < Hondata+ I/H/E?" and as you said, the answer is no, they are about equal. Did that make sense?

[MolonLabe]

The website states under the dyno graph:

"We suspect there is something not quite right. With a CAI, Flash and headers it made the same or less power than a stock Civic Si with flash under 5500 rpm."

I think there was a quirk with the car or the dyno and they need to make more dyno runs and replace that one. Look at it from a basic physics standpoint--the Hondata makes agressive changes to the ignition timing, fuel mix, and probably the VTEC timing (not sure about that one), and overrides the stock redline. Why would these changes produce more raw power with a stock car than with one that has been freed up? If you have an intake that flows more air, it flows more air to the engine no matter what the computer does with timing or fuel mix. Same with exhaust or any other modification.

Now, I could understand if the Hondata made greater gains on a stock car than on a car where airflow had already been optimized to a certain extent, but in terms of raw power numbers it makes no sense for the stock car to win. Something was wrong with the testing conditions when that dyno run was made.

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by kenis138
I guess the bottom line hypothesis i am testing is this:

Is Hondata+Stock > than Hondata+mods (at least low end)?



No, not on the dyno or anywhere else for that matter. I progressed in my mods till I had I/H/E and TB. Then the Hondata went on along with the Heatshield. I felt the car was much improved over stock before, and even more after Hondata. There is no way I would take off those mods and expect better gains with just Hondata, it was tuned to work with those mods. Flow restrictions are power restrictions and no matter how much leaning out, raising of rev limit, advancing of timing... you are still limited by those restrictions. ;)

[MolonLabe]

everlovin-- I almost hate to ask, but you wouldn't happen to have some timeslips would ya?

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by MolonLabe
everlovin-- I almost hate to ask, but you wouldn't happen to have some timeslips would ya?

Yep, last time I posted a time slip was @ St.Thomas dragway. Ran 10 or so times, best was 15.201 @ 90 and change...

Mods at the time: I/H/E TB Hondata and Heatshield. "Stock tires" and finished in 3rd. Nothing to write home about. I know that at that time I could have done alot better, but hey, just out having fun.:D