hondata vs type S head swap???

[4g63dsm]

since the hondata ecu reflash shows costs 600 and show small gains and increases the risk of valve float would it be better to just do a head swap foraround the same amount money? i'm interested in hearing about the advantages and disadvantages.

[andy]

If you could do the head swap for 600, it would be a big advantage
over Hondata. However, I really doubt you could do it for that, unless
you do it yourself and find it cheap. myeverlovinsir is doing that,
and the head itself cost him at least $350. Would be interesting to
see what other expenses (and time) he's going to run into. He's got
a thread on it somewhere...

[Siman]

the head swap is well worth the extra $150+/- in my opinion!
The valve train is made to handle the extra revs up to 10,500 without floating ( I saw it on a hybrid garage test on a dyno). Plus you get a real vtec kick! As far as i know, our rods and crank are the same for the K20 A3/A2 motors. Just a compression differnce cause of pistons shape. It also flows a heck of alot more air than the Si's head, and we already have the SHort runner intake from the DC5 Type-R parts bin! So in essence you can have a really fast car!;)

[BlasTech]

Those extra revs make a HUGE difference on the stock 5-speed transmission.

I think a Hondata'd A3 might still be faster in the 0-60 or 1/4mile because of one less shift.

The A3 Hondata flash has been tested and refined, and I havent heard of any problems yet.

Not enough head swaps out there to make a conclusion yet, though. Whatever you do, try not to sacrifice more torque in the bottom than you gain in the top!

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by BlasTech
Those extra revs make a HUGE difference on the stock 5-speed transmission.

I think a Hondata'd A3 might still be faster in the 0-60 or 1/4mile because of one less shift.

The A3 Hondata flash has been tested and refined, and I havent heard of any problems yet.

Not enough head swaps out there to make a conclusion yet, though. Whatever you do, try not to sacrifice more torque in the bottom than you gain in the top!

You have touched on the one thing that I feel I may be sacrificing with the head swap, and only the dyno will tell. I know in the past I touted how I was making more HP and tq than a Hondata moded type-S upto 6500 rpms. Based on their posted dyno charts. I now wonder how much of a difference this will amount to in low end torque loss and if the nice resonating tq hump at about 4500-5000 rpms is lost as well? Should be interesting.

[Mighty_Mouse]

Don't you need a Hondata reflash to take full advantage of a head swap?

[myeverlovinsir]

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
Don't you need a Hondata reflash to take full advantage of a head swap?

Full advantage? Well, the stock type-S ECU runs to 7800 rpms. My hondata flash ran there as well. I know they said it was set to 7700 rpms, but the dyno chart does not lie. I mentioned this to Doug when it was shown for 3 EP's on the dyno and he probably made the correction after that. Anyways, the hondata flash for the A2 head swap is not what I want. I don't want to run the lower end past this point, however the adv. timing and leaning out of the fuel maps would help. So to answer your question, it would be nice, sans the raised rev limit for now.

My solution to all this, buy the tunable ECU in Feb 04 and be done with it. Cheers;)

[myeverlovinsir]

Not considering price, the head swap is by far alot better a mod! There are no real dyno gains with the hondata, the head swap is good for about 20whp. My suspicion about low to midrange tq loss was correct, however the tq curve is more steady at around 125tq upto 7k rpm.