double clutching

[hatchySi]

i have a question i always hear about double clutching while racing i never knew what it was can someone tell me what that means and how you do that another thing is it bad to pop the clutch while going about 40 or so in second or third gear because a couple of times that ive raced while going instead of downshifting i just pop the clutch to get me up there sometimes its kewl because it peels out while going about 40 or 50 is that bad for my clutch or tranny i dont do it all the time but once in a while so is that bad for my car ...oh and ummm once again whats double clutching

[pedzola]

http://webpages.charter.net/pedzola/images/punctuation.gif

[CyC]

OWN3D!

[Peking]

:confusem: tis sad :(

[Ty's Si]

That's one huge run-on sentence.

[civic hatch boi]

go to school, then rewrite your sentence.

[SiRman]

OWN3D!

That is your very first post on ephatch.
No hello, or intorduction?

Anyways, double clutching is just that: Two clutch motions per shift,
one to take it out of gear(Cluth in--shift to neutral--clutch out).
Then you rev match to the rpms you anticipate are needed for the next gear. Push the clutch in again shift into gear, release clutch pedal.

In sumarry: driving along in gear, Clutch in--neutral--clutch out--rev match--cluthch in--put it in gear--clutch out.

Some will argue that this is not necessary since the invention of synchros, but I still do it on down shifts.

[Vertigo]

It isn't even a sentence. It dosen't have any captial letters or periods. It's just jumbled letters.

And what your doing to your clutch is bad. Popping the clutch while going 40 mph, is not good for it. Also, our cars don't have enuff power to "peel-out" while going 40-50 mph.

Edit: SiRman- you are correct on the double-clutching part. I just use one clutching motion per shift. I rev-match or burp the throttle. Also if i'm drag racing i either flat-foot the clutch or shift without it. Just bang it in gear.:D

[Peking]

Originally posted by SiRman
Some will argue that this is not necessary since the invention of synchros, but I still do it on down shifts.

Not necessary since we do have synchros, since that's what they are for. I would sometimes do it on down shifting.

[SiRman]

i'm drag racing i either flat-foot the clutch or shift without it. Just bang it in gear

Best of luck to your transmission.
I wouldn't shift without the clutch if I were you, the amount of time it may save you is insignificant compared to the time and money you will lose when you f@#$ up your gearbox.

I have shifted a standard trans without the clutch before, I'm not arguing that it can't be done. But they are not really designed for it. You should only do it if you have a sequential gearbox, like those found in motorcycles (and expensive rally cars :smilem: ).

[myeverlovinsir]

It reminds me of the 2nd test drive I took in the SiR at a dealership in Waterloo. The guy apparently was in Allison, Ontario at the plant and was lectured to by one of the assembly techs. As I was driving along, he says to me "There is no need to use the clutch for the first 3 gears, you can just shift!" I looked at him and said "are you gonna pay for the tranny if I leave it on the road?" He was so gung-ho about convincing me that it could be done, he said "Yes, Yes, just do it! The dual syncros will engage the gear properly" I was thinking ok, you take the responsibility, and asked, should I keep the rpm at the same or ease off the gas when I switch gears? He said "Just try to keep it the same rpm". So we are sitting at the stop light and I am really nervous about just jamming the gear from first to second, get the car rolling and just ram the gear into second grinding it all the way, no engagement and staring at him like a lost puppy. I said to him, you said it would work, he said "try it again, but this time try 3rd gear" Alrighty I thought, so again same thing a high pitch grind. While driving back to the dealership, I asked him if he had ever done it. "Hell no, I could get fired for doing shit like that, just wanted to see if it could be done." Needless to say I left that one on the lot!:eek:

[SiRman]

It reminds me of the 2nd test drive I took in the SiR at a dealership in Waterloo. The guy apparently was in Allison, Ontario at the plant and was lectured to by one of the assembly techs. As I was driving along, he says to me "There is no need to use the clutch for the first 3 gears, you can just shift!" I looked at him and said "are you gonna pay for the tranny if I leave it on the road?" He was so gung-ho about convincing me that it could be done, he said "Yes, Yes, just do it! The dual syncros will engage the gear properly" I was thinking ok, you take the responsibility, and asked, should I keep the rpm at the same or ease off the gas when I switch gears? He said "Just try to keep it the same rpm". So we are sitting at the stop light and I am really nervous about just jamming the gear from first to second, get the car rolling and just ram the gear into second grinding it all the way, no engagement and staring at him like a lost puppy. I said to him, you said it would work, he said "try it again, but this time try 3rd gear" Alrighty I thought, so again same thing a high pitch grind. While driving back to the dealership, I asked him if he had ever done it. "Hell no, I could get fired for doing shit like that, just wanted to see if it could be done." Needless to say I left that one on the lot!

LOL:smilem: :banana:
Maybe that is why somepeople have had their trannys done under warranty. Damage happened before they even got the car.
:yellm:

[Vertigo]

I guess i'm one of the few with an 02 model and don't have any trany problems. My old EK trany was beat to death. I had to complety replace the trany, because second gear and the second gear syncro were nothing but metal shavings. Needless to say it wouldn't stay in second gear, you had to hold it in gear. I traded that car to get my EP, so no worries now! Like i said before, i usually flat-foot the clutch while drag racing.

[SiRman]

i usually flat-foot the clutch while drag racing.

Not farmiliar with it, can you explain?
The "flat-foot" thing not drag racing.:winkm:

[myeverlovinsir]

I guess i'm one of the few with an 02 model and don't have any trany problems.

Your not the only one, my tranny has not given me any grief whatsoever. I have mishifted a couple of times but am attentive enough to catch them, and usually base my shifting on feel and sound.

Yeah, what is flat-foot clutching?

[Vertigo]

Well i don't know if that is the politically correct phrase, but that's what i call it. It's where you barely tap the clutch while speed shifting. I just use the inter-ball of my left foot and slid my foot off of the pedal as it is being depressed. Sorry if i didn't explain it so you could understand it.

[myeverlovinsir]

just use the inter-ball of my left foot and slid my foot off of the pedal as it is being depressed

Sorta like popping the clutch, only the revs are matched to the speed of the tranny I assume. Have done this too!;)

[hatchySi]

well sorry about my none sentence sentence who said i didnt know how to write i do actually but i dont like typing periods or anything like that i just dont bother with it so dont talk shit its just how i like typing i figured that if i dont have to write correctly or type correctly i wont but if i do then i will and well so i guess i wont do that with my clutch anymore and i am new but ive been on here for like couple days so my intro is in some other thread and i did say hello well lates

[trk]

Originally posted by hatchySi
well sorry about my none sentence sentence who said i didnt know how to write i do actually but i dont like typing periods or anything like that i just dont bother with it so dont talk shit its just how i like typing i figured that if i dont have to write correctly or type correctly i wont but if i do then i will and well so i guess i wont do that with my clutch anymore and i am new but ive been on here for like couple days so my intro is in some other thread and i did say hello well lates

ima just a gonna proov my ignoorence

[SiRman]

i am new but ive been on here for like couple days so my intro is in some other thread and i did say hello well lates

That part of my post was directed at CyC's first post on ephatch.

And the lack of punctuation is getting old real quick.

[hatchySi]

what the fuck is your problem

[CyC]

Originally posted by hatchySi
well sorry about my none sentence sentence who said i didnt know how to write i do actually but i dont like typing periods or anything like that i just dont bother with it so dont talk shit its just how i like typing i figured that if i dont have to write correctly or type correctly i wont but if i do then i will and well so i guess i wont do that with my clutch anymore and i am new but ive been on here for like couple days so my intro is in some other thread and i did say hello well lates


O_O WHOA!

[blackout]

Trying to shift with out the clutch is the most retarded thing I've ever heard, it makes me want to curl up into the fetal position and cry.:'( I also have an 02 and have had no problems. :D

[Zero Three Si]

Glad to see you guys treat your cars so well. This is a major factor why I will never buy a newer used car.

[SiRman]

what the fuck is your problem

Who are you talking to hatchySi?




O_O WHOA!

And who are you CyC?

[pedzola]

Originally posted by hatchySi
what the fuck is your problem

What? The fuck is your problem.

What the fuck? Is your problem... ?

What the fuck is your problem?

What the... ? Fuck is your problem!

What? The fuck! Is your problem?


Which one of these did he mean? And what do these mean? Nobody knows. Punctuation was designed to solve this ambiguity.

http://webpages.charter.net/pedzola/images/jules.gif

[pedzola]

Originally posted by SiRman
And who are you CyC?

CyC is obviously a grammar nazi come to point out all ill-writing posters for public ridicule. :D

[eurosteez]

Originally posted by pedzola
What? The fuck is your problem.

What the fuck? Is your problem... ?

What the fuck is your problem?

What the... ? Fuck is your problem!

What? The fuck! Is your problem?


Which one of these did he mean? And what do these mean? Nobody knows. Punctuation was designed to solve this ambiguity.



oh shite mang, this one really made me laugh out loud. I think he meant this one: What the....? Fuck is your problem!

[SiRman]

What? The fuck is your problem.

What the fuck? Is your problem... ?

What the fuck is your problem?

What the... ? Fuck is your problem!

What? The fuck! Is your problem?


Which one of these did he mean? And what do these mean? Nobody knows. Punctuation was designed to solve this ambiguity.

Too funny, and true.:smilem: :banana:

This thread is well on it's way to lockdown heaven!:yellm:

[Vertigo]

Where's Jaydub and Bobdobbs when you need them? I thought that they are the kings of proper punctuation. Always correcting everyone for improper use of grammer, or the lack there of.

Pedzola- That pic of Jules Whitfield(Pulp Fiction) killes me...lol!

Myeverlovinsir- That is exactaly it!

[Siman]

The salesman who sold my car at Darrell Waltrip ( Yes the famous nascar racer) honda in franklin, who is also a Police high speed manuvering trainer and SERIOUSLY is one of the 6 certified IRL test drivers at Indaianapolis Indiana told me (while talking about my tranny woes)..

Say you are on a backroad and going from 4th gear to 3rd. let off the gas, and press the clutch in. go to neutral and depress the clutch. Then press in the clutch and put it into 3rd.

The reason for this is if 3rd does not want to engauge if you synchros are out or if you dont have any at all or they ate just no working like they should. This is what My salesman Joe told me they do in the IRL cars if they get "shift lock", where upon the "point
of entry" into a gear the tranny locks out.

I hate the myth of rolling at 30 mph and jabbing the clutch and raising the engine speed for a faster takeoff....all that does is wear your clutch and jar your tranny!:rolleyes:

[CyC]

Originally posted by SiRman
And who are you CyC?

Sorry, I am just a insignificant troll who ventures over from NASIOC.com to read about the EP's because when I was looking for a car I was seriously considering one and spent some time researching here. They still have a nice little place in my heart, and my friend ended up getting one. I usually have no reason to ever post but when something like that gets posted it is impossible not to say anything just because it is so teh funnAy :D

On a side note: I can't believe you guys complain about your transmissions so much. Go try to drive a Subaru 5sp for once. Our tranny hasn't be updated since the 80's :( Yes, I am familiar with double clutching because that is the only way the shifter goes into first when I am not at a dead stop! :eek:

[nyxie]

i never understood the point of double clutching except to get into first when not at a dead stop *ala CyC* or when trying to put it in reverse on cold mornings. my car downshifts into 3rd just nicely. also why would you use it when you race? wouldn't heel-toe downshifting be more efficient? i would just like to understand the pluses of double clutching.

[pedzola]

Say for example you are driving at 60 mph on the highway and you would like to pass some shmuck.

You downshift from 5th to 4th (or even 3rd) to gain more power.

In order to do this shift going this fast you will need to bump up the RPMs considerably. This is where the double clutch occurs.


I do this often.


Hi Nyxie. :*

[nyxie]

oh shit you're right. i do the same thing. :D and quit it!:p i'll leave! :eek:

[hatchySi]

I meant; What the fuck is your problem! And I meant it to the guy that is being an ass on the way I type, and about the topic my trany is just fine I've had no problems with it. I guess some ep's come with trany problems.

[hatchySi]

Are people really dumb to shift w/o using the clutch. Don't they ever think what's going to happen to their car. Those are people who sort of dont't have respect for their cars or don't know anything about the consequences of doing that.

[Peking]

Originally posted by hatchySi
Are people really dumb to shift w/o using the clutch. Don't they ever think what's going to happen to their car. Those are people who sort of dont't have respect for their cars or don't know anything about the consequences of doing that.

It is possible to shift without using the clutch. I wouldn't do it, only since I don't know exactly how. This can cause major problems if done incorrectly or too often. Wear and tear, unlike professional race teams. Who has the money and resources to go through clutches (also trannys)like water.


Originally posted by hatchySi
what the fuck is your problem

You gonna need to calm down with that, before you are banned.


Originally posted by Zero Three Si
Glad to see you guys treat your cars so well. This is a major factor why I will never buy a newer used car.

Agreed with, to much worry with a used car. Unless you are going to replace like everything.

[SiRman]

You gonna need to calm down with that, before you are banned. :blushm: :banana:

[Peking]

Well I can't ban you, but I know if you continue with that kinda behavior then you will be warned, then banned. I think that is how that works :D

[Siman]

I got banned because of some shmuck just would not stop harrasing me and i went off on him.....but i am back and better than ever....the guys on club rsx can be real mean guys! They look down on us for spending 5 grand less....thats pathetic!:rolleyes:

[Siman]

anyway...on with the subject..

[graham]

I ALWAYS use the clutch to shift ... my anecdotal evidence that this is the right thing to do: no tranny problems ever on the three hondas I

[BarracksSi]

Double clutch to match the transmission's speed with the impending engine speed (yes, I realize we know that now) so that it's easier on the tranny to:

1) use engine braking on hills;
2) downshift for passing;
3 -- where it's used best) put the engine up into its powerband before entering a curve on a racetrack, allowing a quicker & smoother (hence FASTER) application of throttle to exit the curve;
4) enable shifting when the syncros are trashed.

I had also read an article in Road & Track where a longtime race driver friend of the editors described how his dad taught him & his brother how to drive stick.

Their dad pulled out an old pre-WWII Ford that had no syncros, and told them to only use the clutch when starting from a dead stop.

:eek:

The object was to learn how to match the engine's revs with the transmission, depending on road speed. They crunched gears a LOT early in the learning cycle, but eventually learned how to get the engine at just the right speed to engage any gear at any road speed.

The writer, riding with this driver at the time, said that the instruction paid off, and this guy did the smoothest, most transparent shifts he had ever experienced.


--- off the topic of this thread --
hatchySi, I assume you don't write that way on your papers in school. That's all I'll say for now.