Greddy turbo vs DC5 engine What would u do? [Archive]

66elwood99

01-06-2004, 12:15 PM

I had the same debate with myself. With the swap you get that sixth gear, which is very appealing and then some cash back when you sell your original motor.
Where do I find a properly priced DC5-R? I've searched and found some, but I want a company that can be trusted and count on for customer service. This is when you guys post links ;)
Anyone that has done this swap, Do you have your AC working? I know that the Type R has none and if you had to do it over again would you?

Mighty_Mouse

01-06-2004, 12:26 PM

You'll also want to swap over the cruise control.

fsugatorbait

01-06-2004, 12:30 PM

I believe Port is the only one on here that has the type r swap. Dont forget that a 6spd tranny is not necessarily better. If your going boost, than you want the longer geared 5 spd. The 6 spd is only better if you plan to stay NA because the shorter gears keep you higher in your powerband on upshifts.

03silverEP

01-06-2004, 12:32 PM

go with the K20A, $5000

greddy $2500 (base) when you add an intercooler ($700) gauges ($300) and proper fuel management ($1000) plus install and dyno time ($750) it's ($5250) for not much more power, and turbo lag

all motor!! top it off w/a toda kit ($2500) for 50 extra horsepower 9,000rpms and flexability in your power band (not to mention the 6 speed, w/LSD)

fsugatorbait

01-06-2004, 12:35 PM

Where were you able to find a k20a for $5k and please dont say ebay.

1FSTEP3

01-06-2004, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by 66elwood99

Where do I find a properly priced DC5-R? I've searched and found some, but I want a company that can be trusted and count on for customer service. This is when you guys post links ;)
Anyone that has done this swap, Do you have your AC working? I know that the Type R has none and if you had to do it over again would you?

I got mine done with Nu Image. Check my sig. out for their number. They got my motor and did my swap for me. I still have AC and this is the best thing I've bought my car. They are located in VA, so that isn't too far away. They have EP's coming to the shop from NY to get work done. K-series specialists, they are building another all motor pro car, but with a k motor for this season.

fsugatorbait

01-06-2004, 01:23 PM

How much do they charge for the engine/install?

ADAMnQuickCIVIC

01-06-2004, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by fsugatorbait
How much do they charge for the engine/install?

A little closer to CT, my mechanic (NJ) would charge about 1G to install a k-series in a EP and it only took him 1 day to do mine.

fsugatorbait

01-06-2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by ADAMnQuickCIVIC
A little closer to CT, my mechanic (NJ) would charge about 1G to install a k-series in a EP and it only took him 1 day to do mine.

good to know, thanks for the info. :)

Mighty_Mouse

01-06-2004, 01:41 PM

Did the guys in VA know how to swap the cruise control onto the K20A? I know that Port wasn't able to figure it out on his swap. I'm pretty sure that he sold his car a while ago.

esmith13

01-06-2004, 01:50 PM

Hmmm, Greddy Kit with no IC - good for 50WHP

K20A - good for ~60WHP over K20A3

SOunds like a win to me for the K20A... Even if you think it's close this way - now couple in with it the time to spool up with a turbo and the abrupt kick of power messin with traction and I'd say the swap would definately win in the 1/4mi - probably in a highway race as well all the way up the speedo. Now if you add ANYTHING to the turbo to get it into the 260WHP range (like the IC kit) the turbo'd EP would win (If traction wasn't a problem).

Question is - which kind of exilerating feeling do you want???

Bein in a car with monster torque N/A versus the sudden pull of a turbo are completely different feels...

Eric

KimchiBoy_TypeR

01-06-2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by fsugatorbait
Where were you able to find a k20a for $5k and please dont say ebay.

found one here for 5,800
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/nudealracing/jdmmotorswaps.html
another
http://www.naganojapanese.com/shop_online_honda.html
another
https://passwordjdm.com/index.php?page=shop/browse&offset=10&category_id=engineswaps&keyword=&ps_session=dd146dec25a5e178d7d316ed70b6af68

I found another one for 5,000 but cant find it:o
if you think these guys are questionable you could always try
ARD performance

NemesisITR

01-06-2004, 04:08 PM

VSV Performance in Dallas Tx will install RSX Type-R motor, Tranny, and LSD for $7300. This includes parts and installation. I believe they also might put in an ACT clutch. They keep the stock flywheel because they really dont believe in lighter flywheels.

DyNastySi

01-07-2004, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by 1FSTEP3
I got mine done with Nu Image. Check my sig. out for their number. They got my motor and did my swap for me. I still have AC and this is the best thing I've bought my car. They are located in VA, so that isn't too far away. They have EP's coming to the shop from NY to get work done. K-series specialists, they are building another all motor pro car, but with a k motor for this season.

Hey, I'm in VA also. One question tho. Will the K20A still pass emissions in VA? How long did it take them to install everything?

fsugatorbait

01-07-2004, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by NemesisITR
VSV Performance in Dallas Tx will install RSX Type-R motor, Tranny, and LSD for $7300. This includes parts and installation. I believe they also might put in an ACT clutch. They keep the stock flywheel because they really dont believe in lighter flywheels.

I ordered hondata from them, they seem like great guys to deal with and have excellent cust svc. That seems like an average price though. If you can get the motor for $5800 than your paying $1500 for labor alone. The max id spend on a swap if I wasnt gonna do it would be a g.

1FSTEP3

01-07-2004, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by DyNastySi
Will the K20A still pass emissions in VA? How long did it take them to install everything?

I don't know about the emissions b/c I have a comptech header. It only took a day to install everything.

66elwood99

01-07-2004, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by 1FSTEP3
I got mine done with Nu Image. Check my sig. out for their number. They got my motor and did my swap for me. I still have AC and this is the best thing I've bought my car. They are located in VA, so that isn't too far away. They have EP's coming to the shop from NY to get work done. K-series specialists, they are building another all motor pro car, but with a k motor for this season.

Could you give me a ballpark figure on what your costs were? I want to do this swap, I only have six thousand more miles of warranty, then I will be looking to do the swap this summer. I even have the wife's :* blessing so I don't want to delay, she changes her mind often. ;) :angel: Thanks for you assistance.:D

MolonLabe

01-07-2004, 12:15 PM

I have to ask a theoretical question here but I think it will add to the discussion. If you do the engine swap, is there anything else you can do with the K20A later on, or are you totally done? What I'm thinking is, forget money is an object for a second: if you leave the stock motor in and go with bolt-on (I use this term loosely) power adders, that engine is done. There's nothing else to do, you have pretty much maximized its output potential and any more money you spend on the engine will be past the point of diminishing returns. Plus, this engine will be more stressed then it was from the factory, but with a Honda I wouldn't worry about this too much. If we were on the Dodge Neon forums or something my whole post would probably be about engine stress, lol! ;)

If you swap out the K20A for now to get a power gain roughly equivalent to a turbo kit on the stock motor, can you then later on (assuming you have the money and want even more power) add a Jackson supercharger kit or another turbo kit to go farther than the stock Si engine could ever dream of going? In the meantime, wouldn't it be nice to know that your naturally aspirated engine is less stressed and has to deal with less heat byproduct than a turbocharged stocker?

EPHatchgirl

01-07-2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by esmith13
Bein in a car with monster torque N/A versus the sudden pull of a turbo are completely different feels...

Eric

That is the true question- with either set up, your little hatch will be a blast to drive, but there is a difference in feel.

I had the same debate myself, and it was a hard choice. I can't say I regret going FI, even though right now, an NA EP is running the quickest down the strip....

**no flames intended here- just curious about this, so someone let me know if they have any info. on the following**

You have to keep in mind: what else has been done to the motor in the 13 second EP? Is it a bone stock K20A DC5R motor? I'll bet that the investment in THAT car is easily as much as the difference in cost to upgrade the Greddy turbo beyond stage II... just something to consider. If someone with a Greddy kit added engine internals, intercooler, port and polish... and the list could go on... you might have a closer race to the fastest NA EP.

I know that after adding rods and pistons, the kit I run is good for 15-20 lbs of boost... just off the top of my head- if you add slicks, upgraded clutch and phantom limited slip (everyone else fill in whatever I left out, but I think that's about it), it would be very interesting to see how comparable the output is to the NA K20A.

....ANYWAYS!!!:D Sorry for the rant- back to the point of it all- I think either way, you have to decide how you want it to feel, because the motor OR the turbo kit is really 2 means to an end... whatever level you decide to carry it to is up to you.:)

Either way- good luck and keep us posted!!!

EPHatchgirl

01-07-2004, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by MolonLabe
I have to ask a theoretical question here but I think it will add to the discussion. If you do the engine swap, is there anything else you can do with the K20A later on, or are you totally done? What I'm thinking is, forget money is an object for a second: if you leave the stock motor in and go with bolt-on (I use this term loosely) power adders, that engine is done. There's nothing else to do, you have pretty much maximized its output potential and any more money you spend on the engine will be past the point of diminishing returns. Plus, this engine will be more stressed then it was from the factory, but with a Honda I wouldn't worry about this too much. If we were on the Dodge Neon forums or something my whole post would probably be about engine stress, lol! ;)

If you swap out the K20A for now to get a power gain roughly equivalent to a turbo kit on the stock motor, can you then later on (assuming you have the money and want even more power) add a Jackson supercharger kit or another turbo kit to go farther than the stock Si engine could ever dream of going? In the meantime, wouldn't it be nice to know that your naturally aspirated engine is less stressed and has to deal with less heat byproduct than a turbocharged stocker?

Also keep in mind that the JDM K20A is MUCH higher compression and would not respond as well to Superchargers or Turbos, actually, it's not as safe as with our lower compression A3....

With the K20A3, you can port and polish the head and manifolds, blueprint the engine, add engine sleeves, pistons and rods which will keep your car running no matter what punishment you throw at it.....

I would say, if you are doing the swap (just an opinion here guys), you'd want to stick with NA set up because of the compression difference.... just my two cents though.

fsugatorbait

01-07-2004, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by EPHatchgirl
I would say, if you are doing the swap (just an opinion here guys), you'd want to stick with NA set up because of the compression difference.... just my two cents though.

Exactly...if you wanted to boost down the road you'd have to change out to low compression pistons.

MolonLabe

01-07-2004, 01:23 PM

Yeah, I just realized that as well, looking at Acura's RSX page the compression is over 11 points! Oh well, there's always nitrous...:D

1FSTEP3

01-07-2004, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by EPHatchgirl

You have to keep in mind: what else has been done to the motor in the 13 second EP? Is it a bone stock K20A DC5R motor? I'll bet that the investment in THAT car is easily as much as the difference in cost to upgrade the Greddy turbo beyond stage II... just something to consider. If someone with a Greddy kit added engine internals, intercooler, port and polish... and the list could go on... you might have a closer race to the fastest NA EP.

Stock motor, I/H/E and hondata type-r reflash.

The NA vs. turbo debate will always go on... just do what you want. Either way it'll cost a lot of money for the average person.

1FSTEP3

01-07-2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by 66elwood99
Could you give me a ballpark figure on what your costs were? I want to do this swap, I only have six thousand more miles of warranty, then I will be looking to do the swap this summer. I even have the wife's :* blessing so I don't want to delay, she changes her mind often. ;) :angel: Thanks for you assistance.:D

I'm not sure about the pricing. Just give the shop a call or send me a PM and I will try to find out.

esmith13

01-07-2004, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by MolonLabe
I have to ask a theoretical question here but I think it will add to the discussion. If you do the engine swap, is there anything else you can do with the K20A later on, or are you totally done? What I'm thinking is, forget money is an object for a second: if you leave the stock motor in and go with bolt-on (I use this term loosely) power adders, that engine is done. There's nothing else to do, you have pretty much maximized its output potential and any more money you spend on the engine will be past the point of diminishing returns. Plus, this engine will be more stressed then it was from the factory, but with a Honda I wouldn't worry about this too much. If we were on the Dodge Neon forums or something my whole post would probably be about engine stress, lol! ;)...

No you won't be done!! One of the first things I would do if I got the K20A I was aiming for before I got my turbo is Skunk2 Cams. If I remember correctly they were claiming they were good for approx. 60WHP for around $300 and specifically for the K20A! :eek: :eek: :eek:

How's that for "further potential"? ;)

Then their's always port & polish and Low compression Pistons (for SC or Turbo) to name a few more. Unfortunately, if it was "Bolt-Ons" you were after - I think you just may be done after I/H/E...

Eric

Eric

Mugen Power

01-07-2004, 02:43 PM

There's nothing like the roar of an N/A motor. :D

If it was up to me, I'd get the swap instead of the turbo kit. I hold to the belief that Hondas should remain N/A.

MolonLabe

01-07-2004, 02:46 PM

How's that for "further potential"?

Holy power to weight ratio Batman!

EPHatchgirl

01-07-2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by 1FSTEP3
Stock motor, I/H/E and hondata type-r reflash.

The NA vs. turbo debate will always go on... just do what you want. Either way it'll cost a lot of money for the average person.

Thanks for the info- I've been quite curious! Does the shop you mentioned do engine internals for boosted cars, or do they just stick to Naturally Aspirated applications? Ima have to check that place out.:)

NemesisITR

01-07-2004, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by esmith13
No you won't be done!! One of the first things I would do if I got the K20A I was aiming for before I got my turbo is Skunk2 Cams. If I remember correctly they were claiming they were good for approx. 60WHP for around $300 and specifically for the K20A! :eek: :eek: :eek:

How's that for "further potential"? ;)

Then their's always port & polish and Low compression Pistons (for SC or Turbo) to name a few more. Unfortunately, if it was "Bolt-Ons" you were after - I think you just may be done after I/H/E...

Eric

Eric

I think the R's motor is already port and polished from the factory, well my 2001 ITR was, you couldnt do anything else to the head for airflow.

If I buy the R motor im not doing anything else to it except the Hondata Flash. If your going to change stuff out of the R motor mights as well work on your A3 motor or A2 motor.

EMI

01-07-2004, 04:28 PM

DC5-R

DumbNewB

01-07-2004, 04:37 PM

If you have the money then it should be DC5R all the way

1FSTEP3

01-07-2004, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by EPHatchgirl
Thanks for the info- I've been quite curious! Does the shop you mentioned do engine internals for boosted cars, or do they just stick to Naturally Aspirated applications? Ima have to check that place out.:)

The shop is actually known for turbo street cars. The owner has a 600whp integra. So to answer your question yes they do internals.

PAPITUYO326

01-07-2004, 05:35 PM

it all depends on whether you like

vtec(k20a)

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm*BAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH
* = vtec engages!
or

boost
vroooooooooooooooooom * pshuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
* = blow off valve!

i personally think n/a is the way to go

but boost is alwayz fun!:cool:

TrippZ

01-07-2004, 06:27 PM

i could have sworn i replied to this topic.

get the k20a. you'll have a nice base HP, 220 i do believe. if oyu ever decide to get a turbo, all you'd really need to do is add a few low compression parts and you're ready to boost.. boost you'll be over 300 hp i'd say. however, that'll require alot of money. k20a, labor for install, turbo, labor for install, low compression parts, labor for install... but thats the price for leaving 50 feet steaming skidmarks :)