Nasty past EP owner

[Slip_Angle]

Not nice at all!! (Mazda World Forum)

Mazda3, what Civic Si should have been.
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ZoomZoomMaximus Posted: Jan 20 2004, 03:52 PM

Mazda Newbie
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Posts: 7
Member No.: 2,884
Joined: 20-January 04

I just traded in my 2002 Civic Si for black Mazda3 Hatchback. I was really surprised by the performance, design, and quality of interior materials. Also, for $2,000 less than Si, you get 17" rims with 205/50 tires instead of 15" rims with 195/60 tires. Although Honda dealers are heavily discounting the Si (I got mine new for $16,400 when MSRP was $19,400), I think Mazda3 is a much better buy. Car and Driver tested Mazda3 and recorded 0.87g on skid pad, which is amazing for a car in this price range. Mazda feels more substantial and refined. Also, it looks much better than Si although that observation is subjective. My local Honda dealer no longer sell the Si's since they have such hard time selling them. Consequently, used car value for 2002+ Civic Si is very low (residual is about same as Civic EX coupe even though the sticker was $2,000 higher).

I would have to say that the new Mazda3 is a big improvement over Protege and is a bargain at around $17,500 (hatchback). I hope Mazda sells a large volume of 3s so that a lot of aftermarket parts would be available in the near future.

[ep3hatchattack]

Originally posted by CDN-SiR-02
Not nice at all!! (Mazda World Forum)

Mazda3, what Civic Si should have been.
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ZoomZoomMaximus Posted: Jan 20 2004, 03:52 PM

Mazda Newbie
Group: Members
Posts: 7
Member No.: 2,884
Joined: 20-January 04

I just traded in my 2002 Civic Si for black Mazda3 Hatchback. I was really surprised by the performance, design, and quality of interior materials. Also, for $2,000 less than Si, you get 17" rims with 205/50 tires instead of 15" rims with 195/60 tires. Although Honda dealers are heavily discounting the Si (I got mine new for $16,400 when MSRP was $19,400),



ITS DOBBS......... FUCKIN TRADER....................

jk.........could be :rolleyes:

[ep pilot]

The one thing the author failed to admit is that whether comparing the Hatchback or Sedan, the Ep3 will still out accelerate the 3 all day long. Even with the Hp bump these cars are about as fast as a Focus PVEF equipped car.

I still think the Protege 5 was a better looking, better handling car than the Ep3, but I

[02civicSI]

everybody is entitled to their own feelings about the car. i dont care what anybody has to say...i love my si!

[honda16v]

The thing that the Mazda guy will miss is the Honda reliability. Ford owns a substantial percentage of Mazda, therefore
the reliability will suffer given past experience. Also, as he himself stated, not much aftermarket for a Mazda. LOL

-Phil

[SilverEpInDc]

Yea Honda has the best reliablity and he will miss Ephatch!

[66elwood99]

Originally posted by honda16v
The thing that the Mazda guy will miss is the Honda reliability. Ford owns a substantial percentage of Mazda, therefore
the reliability will suffer given past experience. Also, as he himself stated, not much aftermarket for a Mazda. LOL

-Phil

My wife had a 626. :( Nothing but problems. Mazda is a Ford with a foreign name! I used a FORD engine when the V6 with only 80,000 miles died.

F.O.R.D = found on road dead or fix or repair daily

[Finger]

Read this "unbiased" ;) review instead :D
http://www.mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1642
Anyway, they got a new car, i understand they what to see it as perfect.

[trk]

Originally posted by 66elwood99
My wife had a 626. :( Nothing but problems.

Was it by chance a manual 5 Speed 98 ES V6?

Ours is new to us and has 75K miles on it and from my research I found the manual 5 speed ES V6 to be a very reliable car, some people refer to that particular 626 as the "bullet proof" one.

Anyways? What was yours?

[Hachiman]

Protege 5 is a comfy car. My cuz has one, looks nice but its gets raped by my SiR on the daily. The 3 is nice too, haven't been in one yet so I cant really compare. But I'm sure I'll get the same results.

The Mazdaspeed however...

[BlasTech]

Originally posted by CDN-SiR-02
Car and Driver tested Mazda3 and recorded 0.87g on skid pad, which is amazing for a car in this price range.

Oh wow....that's uhhh, what any car could easily get with a simple change of tire.

[66elwood99]

Originally posted by trk
Was it by chance a manual 5 Speed 98 ES V6?

Ours is new to us and has 75K miles on it and from my research I found the manual 5 speed ES V6 to be a very reliable car, some people refer to that particular 626 as the "bullet proof" one.

Anyways? What was yours?

No it was an automatic (which failed and needed replaced)

I believe that it was a 1996 , 4dr, with all the toys, I didn't like driving it, so I kept pushing my 1990 civic with 130K miles on it, which I gave to my son, who still drives it everyday, now with 180K
original tranny and motor :D Of coarse the body is rusting away thanks to Pa Road Department and all the damm rocksalt they throw down.

[02NJHondaep3]

how can you compare an 02 released car to an 04? The way I see it is if the mazda3 would've come out before the ep3, things would've been different. I still think this 4 door sporty sedan thing is a boring fad.

ps. I'm excluding the 04 Si.

[honda16v]

Originally posted by Finger
Read this "unbiased" ;) review instead :D
http://www.mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1642
Anyway, they got a new car, i understand they what to see it as perfect.

Man, I read the article on the Mazda forum. :( . I don't even know how you can compare the two cars. We love Honda's and they love Mazda's. They got to sell that junk to someone I'm just glad that it's not us. LOL

-Phil

[honda16v]

Originally posted by 02NJHondaep3
how can you compare an 02 released car to an 04? The way I see it is if the mazda3 would've come out before the ep3, things would've been different. I still think this 4 door sporty sedan thing is a boring fad.

ps. I'm excluding the 04 Si.

04 SI, 16" wheels. Try the skid pad with that! When you compare the same year models you can see the difference. Like 02NJHondaep3 said. Go compare a 02 Mazda 323 with an 02 SI. You'll see the difference. Just wait, someday we'll get the Type R.

-Phil

[Mugen Power]

I still fail to see how this past owner is nasty. Is it just because he likes his new car better than the Honda? That's a wack train of thought...

[honda16v]

Uh, dumb question of the post. Why is the Mazda owner still hanging around the EP Forum.

-Go my son, you have been set free. Go to your Mazda clan.


Hey, anybody, if you see him broke down on the road, please stop and help him. Sorry for the hit, couldn't help it.

-Phil

[styllinep3]

who cares:p about the mazda 3 . ford owns them so they suck;) . there just like a mitisubishi. a japanese name, and built and infulenced by domestic rip off car companys. honda is solely honda and builds what they want, and how they want to build it. thats why they hold there value, and our reliable. there isnt some rip off company who owns better then 60% of them telling them what materials to use, where to cut corners. the domestic/japenese owned car companies build cars according to what there stock holders say is right. honda builds cars for the buyer. ;) bottom line.

[honda16v]

Originally posted by styllinep3
who cares:p about the mazda 3 . ford owns them so they suck;) . there just like a mitisubishi. a japanese name, and built and infulenced by domestic rip off car companys. honda is solely honda and builds what they want, and how they want to build it. thats why they hold there value, and our reliable. there isnt some rip off company who owns better then 60% of them telling them what materials to use, where to cut corners. the domestic/japenese owned car companies build cars according to what there stock holders say is right. honda builds cars for the buyer. ;) bottom line.

Man, I like you Post!

-Phil

02 SI
92 Hatch
90 Teg
Lookie here, all Honda!

[styllinep3]

thanks honda16v . i only learned that cause my dad has a new galant, and it lost 12,000$ in 2 years and it was brand new. reason being chrysler owns like 60% of them, and when bought it he was thought he was buying a japense car with better value. we learned the hard way. but thanks anyway . ;)

[r3p00c]

i hate to rain on the parade, but stock for stock, a mazda 5HB or sedan 's' model will hang with an ep, if not slightly out perform it. don't get me wrong, i love my ep... but the numbers don't lie..

mazda 3: 2.3L 160HP, 150 lbs/ft. TQ, 17x7 wheels.... ~2800 lbs.
ep: 2.0L 160 HP, 132 lbs/ft. TQ, 16x6.5 wheels... ~2700 lbs.

looks like we have yet another car to watch out for now... add it to the growing list of cars that are even with or outpoerform the ep... :( hopefully these kind of cars will give honda a reason to give the si a much needed performance upgrade for the next generation.

[styllinep3]

who cares it still ford junk , but i see your point:)

[tony speed]

i had a mazda and boy did i hate it...darn thing broke down too much for my liking....and i think the 04 protege 3 is ugly. it reminds me of a hybrid of our car and the pt cruiser.....

[r3p00c]

on a side note, i still think the ep is a much better looking car than the mazda3 5hb. i can't get myself to like its styling... at all. i do like the sedan, however... it just has the look of a smaller mazda6, which is a good thing. i'm sure there will be a pretty good aftermarket following for them.

[honda16v]

The good thing about those performance figures between the cars is that there is a HUGE following for the K-series and we have many options to make our care much, much, much faster and the Honda will still be running at the 200,000 mile mark.:D

[styllinep3]

Originally posted by honda16v
The good thing about those performance figures between the cars is that there is a HUGE following for the K-series and we have many options to make our care much, much, much faster and the Honda will still be running at the 200,000 mile mark.:D


i agree 100%

[esmith13]

For the record...

According to the Car and Driver TV show from 2 sundays ago, the Mazda3 is 90% a ford focus.

They went as far as to say the only MAJOR differences between the Mazda3 and the focus was the engine and body skins. Not only is everything else "focus parts" but 80% of those parts weren't even re-engineered for the new car! You can LITERALLY order the parts from a ford dealer for the corresponding focus and use them! They also stated that was the only reason the car IS honestly cheap for what you get.

Oh, and my unbiased opinion....

I bought my wife a 2002 Ford Focus ZTS Mach Audio Edition.
Not a bad car in general - but one of the biggest money pits I ever owned. I would have NO quams with this thing if it hadn't been in the shop 6 times in one year for chassis and powertrain problems. Oh - and it only had 5,000mi put on it in that first year!!

I like the focus AND the Mazda3 personally - but I WILL NOT own another car that I would be scared to own outside of the manufacturers warranty period... My focus is SOOO gone by the tim ethe warranty is up!

Just my .02

Eric

[r3p00c]

i completely agree with you guys about reliability and aftermarket support for the k-series, let alone hondas in general... but honda still does need to get on its feet when it comes to their numbers. its all great that there are a ton of parts available for our side, but not every owner wants to or can afford these things. a lot of the time the person will go for the car that already does all these things without any work put into it. honda just needs to realize this, and put out an affordable compact that can compete with whats currently on the market.

[honda16v]

I agree r3p00c. Maybe this will force Honda's hand on the Type R Civic. I read on the UK site that they don't get the SI. Hmmm. Why do they get the Type R and we get the SI. I think I know why. Because of the competition in the US between the RSX Type S and the Civic SI. They want to differentiate the two cars to keep the sales separtated.

You be the judge on that.

-Phil

[styllinep3]

Originally posted by honda16v
I agree r3p00c. Maybe this will force Honda's hand on the Type R Civic. I read on the UK site that they don't get the SI. Hmmm. Why do they get the Type R and we get the SI. I think I know why. Because of the competition in the US between the RSX Type S and the Civic SI. They want to differentiate the two cars to keep the sales separtated.

You be the judge on that.

-Phil


i agree to on this! they are slacking in performance end of the si .

guess thats why the sales were the worst ever on a si for 02 - 03.

its funny they tried to make it more of an everyday car. while all other car companies are focusing on perfomance.

hopefully they will see the problem and get there shit together.


oh and what you said is exactly right honda16v. i read that they wont bring it here cause they dont want to take away from the type s sales. go figure.:(

[esmith13]

They also said they won't bring it here cause in the USA young punk kids buy hondas and wreck them street racing...

in Japan and Europe most hondas are owned by middle age seasoned adults that would never do such a thing...

Talk about stereo typing...

;)

The above statement is true, by the way - even tho I'm poking fun at it.

Eric

[audomatik]

I love how he was bitching about road trips and the shifter. Puhhhh-lease. Is this guy a wuss or what? I drove to Ocean City, MD from my home town which is roughly 3.25 hours away. My arm was FINE! Does an Evo come with an arm rest? An STi? A Viper? actually I dunno if they do, but probably not... haha

[Mugen Power]

Originally posted by esmith13
They also said they won't bring it here cause in the USA young punk kids buy hondas nd wreck them street racing...

in apan and Europe most hondas are owned by middle age seasoned adults that would never do such a thing...

Talk about stereo typing...

;)

The above statement is true, by the way - even tho I'm poking fun at it.

Eric

Well, their stereotyping is correct, for the most part. In Europe and Japan (from what I gather), the young and go-fast people won't choose a Honda. In Europe, it's just the image that Honda had with realiability and your parents' car. Kinda like there's no performance image attached to Honda. In Japan, it's kinda the same and plus they have "better" cars (read FR and AWD cars) for the performance-oriented.

[nozomi]

Originally posted by esmith13
For the record...

According to the Car and Driver TV show from 2 sundays ago, the Mazda3 is 90% a ford focus.

They went as far as to say the only MAJOR differences between the Mazda3 and the focus was the engine and body skins. Not only is everything else "focus parts" but 80% of those parts weren't even re-engineered for the new car! You can LITERALLY order the parts from a ford draler for the corresponding focus and use them! They also stated that was the only reason the car IS honestly cheap for what you get.


YES! before i decided to get an EP3, Mazda 3 was in my list until i found out this JUST A FANCIER FOCUS!!!!


Originally posted by Mugen Power
Well, their stereotyping is correct, for the most part. In Europe and Japan (from what I gather), the young and go-fast people won't choose a Honda. In Europe, it's just the image that Honda had with realiability and your parents' car. Kinda like there's no performance image attached to Honda. In Japan, it's kinda the same and plus they have "better" cars (read FR and AWD cars) for the performance-oriented.

The most honda that i see in Japan are Odyssey and Fit. Yes there were also a few Rs, but there were a whole lot more other fast cars on the road.

[SiR_d1]

people are entitled to their own opinion.

When I read your title the first thing that came to mind was that you found the previous owner of your car and found out he/she treated it like shit:D

[Zero Three Si]

I can't say that the type R won't come to the USA because of the RSX type s.

Acura sales are like 10% of all hondas sold in the states. Honestly how many Acura's do you really see on the roads. Not that many...

The stero type is "acura is classy"...."honda is entry level".

[Mugen Power]

Originally posted by SiR_d1
people are entitled to their own opinion.

When I read your title the first thing that came to mind was that you found the previous owner of your car and found out he/she treated it like shit:D

Yeah, I thought he was saying that the previous owner was talking trash about the EP but from what he pasted on the post, I don't see how this guy's being nasty. :confusem:

[SiR_d1]

Originally posted by Zero Three Si
I can't say that the type R won't come to the USA because of the RSX type s.

Acura sales are like 10% of all hondas sold in the states. Honestly how many Acura's do you really see on the roads. Not that many...

The stero type is "acura is classy"...."honda is entry level".

ACURA RSX is the MOST COMMON car you see here in Toroto. I literally see about 10-15 a day and thats just the minimum.

Top it all off my Brother has the Type S:rolleyes:

[Slip_Angle]

Didn't realize this thread would cause so much discussion! Anyways, as most people have basically stated.. "To each their own". I didn't really mean the guy was nasty, just using a figure of speech.

My take on things is that the EP is a great car for me and I really like it. Whether one car is 2/10th faster or 5/10 slower as compared to the EP is really errelevant in the end. If I bought a Viper, the argument would be that the new vette handles better and the Enzo is quicker in the 1/4 mile.. it never ends.

...of course if they are 2/10 faster on an autocross lap, that's another story!!

CDN-SiR-02

[Whiteboy]

Stock vs. Stock, I think I definitely like the looks of the 3 better than the Si. Stock, the 3 probably handles better also. BUT, the thing that takes us a step above, is that our car is more reliable, and there is an enormous aftermarket. Part of the fun of owning an Si is modding it, I don't think I would have ever gotten the car if I planned to keep it stock.

By the time an aftermarket exists for the 3 everyone on this board is going to have a greddy turbo and full coilover suspension :cool:

[chunky]

I'm not sure that the mazda 3 would outhandle the ep3 in stock trim.

the ep3 scored in the high .8x range as well in several skidpad tests. wheels, tires, minor suspension upgrades push it easily into the mide to upper .9x range.

Personally, I've never been impressed with the motors that mazda puts out. they lack the honda smoothness. even the old b-series were a smoother motor than the new mazda motors. The k-series is no comparison.

the old protege's were nice, and they could give a honda a good run for it's money in the handling department, assuming they were equally prepared - but in the end, the honda had the total package, power & performance.

not to mention the mazda 3 hatches are ugly in person. i'd MUCH rather have the simple body lines of the ep3.

[styllinep3]

Originally posted by SiR_d1
ACURA RSX is the MOST COMMON car you see here in Toroto. I literally see about 10-15 a day and thats just the minimum.

Top it all off my Brother has the Type S:rolleyes:


i see like 10 rsx a day, and the reason they wont brong the type r hear has little to do with young kids crashing cars. how many young kids can afford a 23,000$ car. not many i know, and most parents arent gonna get the kid a death trap if they know they are reckless.

the reason being, and i read this. is cause they dont want to take away from the type s sales. i guess its cause it would be priced the same as a type s, but then again like someone said the classy people would buy the type s, and regular guys would buy the ctr. really why does honda care about that. wouldnt they want the most sales from both ends of classes. either way i would take a si over that 5 door focus with a M on the front anyday. shit i would take a civic coupe over that thing. even if its better perfomance or not, cause it wouldnt take a whole lot to get to the 3 perfomance level. like a swap or turbo, and you still get the honda qualities too. :D

[EvilSlvRCiViC]

Originally posted by honda16v
The thing that the Mazda guy will miss is the Honda reliability. Ford owns a substantial percentage of Mazda, therefore
the reliability will suffer given past experience. Also, as he himself stated, not much aftermarket for a Mazda. LOL

-Phil
so so true used to own a probe (gtv6)-- worse peice of garbage i ever had-- got a honda (acura 90 integra)and was pbetter reliability wise and perfomance-- never will i get a mazda or ford(same thing)

[BarracksSi]

Originally posted by audomatik
I love how he was bitching about road trips and the shifter. Puhhhh-lease. Is this guy a wuss or what? I drove to Ocean City, MD from my home town which is roughly 3.25 hours away. My arm was FINE! Does an Evo come with an arm rest? An STi? A Viper? actually I dunno if they do, but probably not... haha


Yeah, no kidding --

The shifter placement makes so much sense, I can't understand why we don't see more of 'em.

And an armrest? Cripes, to be worthwhile for me, a center armrest would have to be as high as the one on the door, and it would be just waste usable space, especially elbow space.

Oh, and I didn't feel sore after eleven hours of driving.

The revelation that the Mazda 3 is now a reskinned Focus just makes the Civic appear even better. Maybe it would have made more sense for Ford to go the other way, to rebadge the Proteg

[Low Rider]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BarracksSi
[B]Yeah, no kidding --

The shifter placement makes so much sense, I can't understand why we don't see more of 'em.

And an armrest? Cripes, to be worthwhile for me, a center armrest would have to be as high as the one on the door, and it would be just waste usable space, especially elbow space.

Oh, and I didn't feel sore after eleven hours of driving.

The revelation that the Mazda 3 is now a reskinned Focus just makes the Civic appear even better. Maybe it would have made more sense for Ford to go the other way, to rebadge the Proteg