Help me build my engine.

[anjapower]

Warning: Long, loaded with questions.

I'd like your opinions guys. I want to do something engine-wise in a few months time. I would like to stay as cost-conscious as possible, but at the same time, not limit my potential power-wise. I will be staying N/A as I've already invested in a comptech race header..

1. Swap an A2 head that I find for under 1k. This I would like to complement with Type R pistons and or camshafts. If I went this route, I would like to keep part costs under 2k. The camshaft installation would be pretty simple but I think the piston install would be quite intensive. Would it be better to skip the piston installation in favor of the cams (in interest of cost)? I wouldn't have to deal with selling my engine either. I'm leaning towards this right now because I can slowly procure the parts one by one and it has the lowest initial cost.

This option releases a couple questions: How "good" is the A3 block? Will it stand up to 8000 revs/min regularly? Will this swap be reliable? Will it produce good power?

2. Get an A2 head, mate it with a K24 block, keep my 5 speed tranny. I would have the additional burden of selling my engine and storing it in the meantime. Probably the most troublesome option because I'd have to not only track down a good, cheap head but also a good, cheap block. And then have it assembled and installed. The upside being that it would probably produce the most power.

3. Get an A2 engine/tranny swap. Might actually be cheaper than option 1 in the long run, provided that I can get 1500-2000 for my A3. This option has probably the highest initial cost but is probably the most trouble-free as I'm just bolting up another stock Honda motor.

My goals with this step: to be able to hit 13s with not too much more work. Be reliable. Or rather: most bang for the buck (want to be able to secure funds in a couple months...I would love to get a K20a but that would take FOREVER to save up).


I'm looking for the engine gurus on this board to chime in: myeverlovinsir, paynetech, etc. Thanks.

[Hatch02SI]

This is a good set of questions... But I am gonna have to go with option 1, but the whole part of the dc-5 pistions would be pretty cost spending... But yes I'd like to hear more on this as well....

-Bump-

-jon

[Soon2beEP3]

Yes, option one will probably be the smartest!
But I'm stupid and saving up for a K20A. And I don't care how long it takes me.

[Rey]

You should of thought about turbo.

If it were me, I would do K20a2 with toda kit.

[anjapower]

Originally posted by Rey
You should of thought about turbo.


I did, didn't want it. I want N/A power.

[NYSI]

Hey Bro. why dont you look into super street mag. the have the Skunk2 civic RR the went the same way you can read on it there was a posting on it here someone type the all the process and it wont be under 2k the pistons from the type R generated to much presure they have to work on them to reduced the presure that wont be under 2K unless you have that much skills...but at the end they dyno the car at 210hp to the wheel good look Bro..

[!@#$%]

go with the straight forward swap. A2 swap, and sell the a3.

far less complications, and depending on market value for the a3, you might come out ahead. toda has released an N2 kit, which is very similar to the Spec A's but are more agressive and produce 10 whp more for the same price. (2300)

That should be all you need right there, other than a clutch/flywheel setup. all bolton's will work. instant 235-240 whp.


head swap is only beneficial if you are going turbo.

[02civicSI]

Originally posted by Rey

If it were me, I would do K20a2 with toda kit.

nuff said

[4g63dsm]

Originally posted by 02civicSI
nuff said i second that

[Dunrick]

yeah do the real deal a2 block/tranny then I would wait for something better than the toda cams. They are great, but it is still so early on in the game for the a2. In the meantime do all the breathing mods on the a2, you will have enough power to hold you over for another year, easily.

[fsugatorbait]

Anj, good set of questions...

1. This is what I went back and forth with when making my decision. There seem to be a few heads popping up lately in the classifieds forum for around the 1k price tag your looking to spend. There is also a set of DC5R pistons with Spoon HG right now going for $240 obo shipped. Other things to consider, is valve clearance if you swap cam shafts. In myeverlovinsir a2 head swap post, he mentioned someone who swapped the Toda cams and ran into valve problems because of the lift with a misshift. Now you could say that would have happened anyway, but its still something to thing about. Also, with the increased revs only time how well the unbalanced crank fares. Powerwise with the head swap myeverlovinsir was only putting down 167 whp, which is only about a 10-15 hp increase vs. a similarily moded A3.

2. If your looking for N/A power, its probably your best option shy of a straight A swap, but with the longer stroke, it compounds the problem of an unbalanced crank that you run into with the A3. Something id probably sit on the sidelines for a few years for and see how well they hold up. Also, if you are going N/A, I would highlyl consider swapping in the A2 or A tranny. With their closer gear ratios, it would benefit you much better to keep you in your powerband. Ive read it shaving as much as .2-.3 seconds off your 1040.

3. If your goals are to get into the 13's, a straight up swap is gonna be your best bet. Say you find an A2 for $3500, you are able to get $2000 for your motor and with the boltons you already have, your gonna be runnin high 13's out of the box with only a net investment of $1500! Add to that the piece of mind of having a relatively stock motor and not something you pieced together and its a wrap.

Whatever option you choose im gonna be very interested to see how it turns out and if ya need a hand with anything just dial me up. Best of luck with whatever route you take.

[PAPITUYO326]

Originally posted by Rey
You should of thought about turbo.

If it were me, I would do K20a2 with toda kit.

same here...thats my plan...i wanna do it in a couple of years when i begin to tire of my cay...new engine = almost new car

[TrippZ]

im gonna say k20a2 swap.

[anjapower]

thanks for the input guys, especially phil. So far everyone is pointing towards the A2 swap. Now its time to start saving. Looks like a lot of ramen noodles for me for the next few months;)

[fsugatorbait]

Haha, ramen noodles, college kids meal of choice.

[myeverlovinsir]

Some good points made. N/A and 13's is a great venture. I think the tranny (DC5R) is the best option for off the line quickness and grip. The A2 tranny has closer mated gearing than ours in the lower 3 gears and would also help, shame about the heavy fly and upper 3 gearing and no LSD. I am planning on going boost so my setup is not going to get you into the 13's N/A easily. The cam swap on the A2 is still a good option, and that guy who mishifted and bent a bunch of valves with the Toda cams is just a gloomy thought. A mishift that put a little black mark on the whole issue, however I would not let that detract you. My A2 head on the A3 block is not even close to it's full potential, my gains along with my other mods should be showing 185whp with this head, tuning is critical. I provided a prelim baseline of what you would get by just slapping it on. I am sure you will be more impressed once it's tuned properly.

The best N/A option is to go to the K20A, however that does nothing for you monetarily and aspiring to get it done cheaply is what this is about.

Using a cheap K24 block and A2 head would get you increased tq and hp but that setup is best used for boost as well. Still a lot of work and may end up costing more than a K20A2 swap if you don't plan on doing the work yourself.

I think the best option is to first go to the complete K20A2 swap, there will be many more of these around for cheap in the future than K20A's which will always go for prize money. The best price right now for a reputable K20A is 5k USD including the tranny. A2 engine and tranny could probably be had for half that or less depending on the condition.

After the A2 swap, I would look at cams, springs, retainers, DC5R pistons, custom bored TB, DC5R IM, Port&polish, high flow cat, engine mount inserts, lighter fly, stronger clutch, LSD or DC5R tranny. There are a lot of guys in the 13's N/A on Clubrsx. All of these are added costs and may end up being the same as a K20A from the start, but until your ready for those, you can enjoy it.;)

[Dunrick]

Once you replace all of the things you listed on the a2 block (myeverlovin) you basically replace all of the things the k20A has on the a2 right? So no point in getting the k20A...correct? besides the tranny.

[anjapower]

thanks for the input dunny and glen. I appreciate and value your inputs.

One of the lines that you wrote was of particular interest to me...where you said that I could probably pick up a K20A2 for half or less than half of a K20A. I have seen many of them at ~3500, but only one under 3k.

Everyone recommends importautosalvage because of their high quality engines/service but they sell K20A2s at roughly 4k. Any tips on how and where to start looking?

One other question that keeps popping into my head is what is one supposed to move around the engine once he gets it? Say the engine gets shipped to me, will it be on a UPS truck?? Say I wanted to take it down to a buddy's garage where he could help me put it in. How would I get it on say a pickup truck to do so? I know you need an engine hoist when putting it in your car, but do you need an engine hoist to move it around as well?

[anjapower]

ttt

[Hatch02SI]

couldn't you just re-use the mod's on the a3 block and use them on the a2 block??? I mean i am pretty sure some of the mod's fit... if not please elaborate for me!

thanks,

jon

[anjapower]

Originally posted by Hatch02SI
couldn't you just re-use the mod's on the a3 block and use them on the a2 block??? I mean i am pretty sure some of the mod's fit... if not please elaborate for me!

thanks,

jon

That's precisely what I plan on doing! The only thing that I had a question was the intake...I believe the piping on the CAI for the type S has a larger diameter. Don't know if this is that relevant, but all the other mods will bolt up, and I won't have to start all over again.

[Hatch02SI]

Originally posted by anjapower
That's precisely what I plan on doing! The only thing that I had a question was the intake...I believe the piping on the CAI for the type S has a larger diameter. Don't know if this is that relevant, but all the other mods will bolt up, and I won't have to start all over again.

Good Shit... Now I have second thoughts on what i wanna do... Still deciding though what i wanna do with the damn car... cause the a2 swap will be kinda intresting to do :)

jon