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View Full Version : carbon fiber hatch weighs more than the stock one!



02SilverSiHB
02-03-2004, 07:31 PM
I saw this thread on kseries and was wondering if anyone can confirm this...
http://k-series.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=10883#10883

dofu
02-03-2004, 07:35 PM
the cf hatch is definately lighter than the stock... trust me... i feel it every time i open my hatch.

02SilverSiHB
02-03-2004, 07:50 PM
hhhmm, interesting, could it be you don't want to hear this since you paid more money for the carbon fiber hatch one?

This guy on hondatuning had weigh each and the carbon fiber one was 3lbs heavier.

dofu
02-03-2004, 07:56 PM
no... its definately a lot lighter than stock. i almost threw it when i picked it up to install it

4g63dsm
02-03-2004, 09:41 PM
but when you picked it up to install it , it didn't have : glass panels, rear wiper motor, and power locks in it.

downhil
02-03-2004, 11:01 PM
what is on the inside of the cf? fiberglass?

just imagine a 6500lb excursion 'bumping' you from behind.

dofu
02-04-2004, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by downhil
what is on the inside of the cf? fiberglass?

just imagine a 6500lb excursion 'bumping' you from behind.

cf hatch - showstoppers (http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28741)

dofu
02-04-2004, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by 4g63dsm
but when you picked it up to install it , it didn't have : glass panels, rear wiper motor, and power locks in it.

it sure didnt... but installed is still a lot lighter than stock

KimchiBoy_TypeR
02-04-2004, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by downhil
what is on the inside of the cf? fiberglass?

just imagine a 6500lb excursion 'bumping' you from behind.

Yeah the Guy from hondatuning siad it was prob so heavy because of wow tightly woven and compressed the carbon was to make this hatch. So I could imagine if an excursion rear ended you it would basically be like a Brick wall made out of carbon fiber slamming into back of your seat. Because it is built so strong it will prob have no give when it comes to a collision!!:eek: Pretty scary stuff if you think about it.

EMI
02-04-2004, 11:31 AM
the reason why it is heavy is because it is a ViS product. They use Poly resin rather then epoxy which is a lot heavier and more brittle then epoxy but 3 times cheaper. ViS hoods and such are known for being the heaviest carbon hoods because they are made for cosmetic purposes not for racing or structure. In a flat rear end colision the hatch will shatter and break not stay in one peice and move forward.

Mugen_EP
02-04-2004, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by EMI
the reason why it is heavy is because it is a ViS product. They use Poly resin rather then epoxy which is a lot heavier and more brittle then epoxy but 3 times cheaper. ViS hoods and such are known for being the heaviest carbon hoods because they are made for cosmetic purposes not for racing or structure. In a flat rear end colision the hatch will shatter and break not stay in one peice and move forward.

I appreicate someone with such knowledge about carbon fiber being on the boards.

Thanks.;)

02SilverSiHB
02-04-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Mugen_EP
I appreicate someone with such knowledge about carbon fiber being on the boards.

Thanks.;)
ditto, didn't know that about vis. With my fiberimages kit, I can tell the quality is nice. If I get a carbon fiber hood, fiberimages will be it. I've back into to shit, hit cement bumpers with my lip kit, and the previous owner even hit a deer...and it's still intact :D

fishboy
02-04-2004, 12:50 PM
i've always said and will say it again, fiber images is way better than VIS, but pricey. :confused: you can stomp on a fiber images hood and that thing will not lose its shape.

fishboy
02-04-2004, 12:51 PM
oh, and it is sad to hear that the cf hatch weighs more. scratch that thing from the mod list. well, my imaginary mod list anyway. :D

EMI
02-04-2004, 12:55 PM
i am not saying it weighs more because personally I do not know. but just expressing why vis products are heavier then most carbon stuff

sniperSI
02-04-2004, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by EMI
the reason why it is heavy is because it is a ViS product. They use Poly resin rather then epoxy which is a lot heavier and more brittle then epoxy but 3 times cheaper. ViS hoods and such are known for being the heaviest carbon hoods because they are made for cosmetic purposes not for racing or structure. In a flat rear end colision the hatch will shatter and break not stay in one peice and move forward.

awesome info!

trk
02-04-2004, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by EMI
the reason why it is heavy is because it is a ViS product. They use Poly resin rather then epoxy which is a lot heavier and more brittle then epoxy but 3 times cheaper. ViS hoods and such are known for being the heaviest carbon hoods because they are made for cosmetic purposes not for racing or structure. In a flat rear end colision the hatch will shatter and break not stay in one peice and move forward.

In your opinion who makes well made carbon fiber hoods? (for our car).

EMI
02-04-2004, 01:58 PM
any mass produced hood has the chance to have problems. Because one person starts it and another finishes it so if a problem is noticed the next person has no clue about it during the asembly line. Fiber Image hoods are nice because they have at least a quality control. Places like ViS and other imported hood companies kinda brainwash the consumer thinking they are the best and that any hood or carbon product that is more money is a rip off. You have to look at the processes that are used when making the products. Vacuum bagging is more exspensive but makes a better part. Vacuum infusing is the best method for light weight and strong parts because you lay the part dry in the mold and vacuum bag the part so there is no air. Then you pump in resin into the mold and it infuses into the material and then the excess is pumped right out. My hood is made this process and only weighs 3.7 lbs. Plus it will be stronger then the other processes. Pre-preg is the best but the most exspensive. If you think of the labor and the materials Fiber Image Hoods are the best for the money. They do traditional wet layups but less mass produced. If it were my car and I did not make carbon stuff myself I would get a Body Kits Northwest Hood. BKNW for short. Good quality, not mass produced and you can get it in different kevlar colors as well. they are made to order and strict quality control. www.bodykitsnw.com

dofu
02-04-2004, 03:23 PM
hmm... interesting... vis are so strong that some big dude jumped up and down on his vis hood, and it didnt shatter... emi... can i do this on your hood??? im sure the hood you are making is that much better, the way you talkin, so it should be able to withstand even more abuse while being a lot lighter at the same time all thanks to this coating you use... if it is... show me solid proof and i might trade in... and wtf??? cf heavier than stock parts??? omg... yea, and that turbo these ppl buyin actually make your car slower too, right???

EMI
02-04-2004, 04:32 PM
like I said i don't know if the Vis Hatch weighs more then the stock one and yes my hood is probally about 8-10 times stronger then a Vis hood because it utilizes NO fiberglass, it is 100% carbon and reinforced with Dupont Kevlar. The same stuff Bullet proof vests are made of. I did this to reinforce my latch and mounting points. You could lift my hood, latched to the car with a back hoe and the OEM mounts would break before the latch would. it is laid a certain way for strength. You can lay carbon in different dirrections for different applications. Mine is 4 layers of carbon honeycombed for ridgedness and for bulk. Just because someone can jump on a hood does not mean it is strong. That is a very big misconception people make in relation to strenght. Just about any hood that has a nice layer of gelcoat and the hood has an natural dome like the si hood will do this. I am not knocking ViS's stuff because it is good FOR THE MONEY. Most people will not have a problem with them. But you also have to relize that if you have a daily driver car or show car a ViS hood will be fine. Mine is not a daily driver but an autocrossing car so my weight reductions are needed. A good race hood that is cosmetically nice that weights in the area of 2-5 lbs will be over a grand. They are labor intensive and take a lot more knowledge and exspensive equipment to make. Plus they are about double in price of materials.

02SilverSiHB
02-04-2004, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by dofu
hmm... interesting... vis are so strong that some big dude jumped up and down on his vis hood, and it didnt shatter... emi... can i do this on your hood???
Was it this vid you saw?
Right click save target as (http://www.fiberimages.com/images/products/hoods/strengthtests/MVC-030V.MPG)



Originally posted by dofu
cf heavier than stock parts??? omg... yea, and that turbo these ppl buyin actually make your car slower too, right???

What he's saying about the carbon fiber being heavier than stock is because of the process made to make the carbon fiber, it is possible

dofu
02-04-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by 02SilverSiHB
What he's saying about the carbon fiber being heavier than stock is because of the process made to make the carbon fiber, it is possible

no. he's sayin vis cf hood and the like are heavier than his

EMI
02-04-2004, 04:39 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that the hood is not on a ep. It is on my JDM Front Integra.

http://njsr.org/pics/albums/userpics/normal_my%20close%20front%7E0.jpg

http://njsr.org/pics/albums/userpics/normal_my%20front%7E2.jpg

EMI
02-04-2004, 04:41 PM
no I am saying that ViS hoods are KNOWN for being heavy as far as carbon hoods are concerned. Not that they are heavier then stock they are just heavy for carbon hoods

03EP3SiHB
02-04-2004, 04:41 PM
Who puts a cf rear hatch on their car un less they are Fast and Furious????? j/k!! Anyways what's the deal???? CF is lighter then stock or just as heavy or heavier??????

EMI
02-04-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by 03EP3SiHB
Who puts a cf rear hatch on their car un less they are Fast and Furious????? j/k!! Anyways what's the deal???? CF is lighter then stock or just as heavy or heavier??????

Carbon fiber is way lighter then stock! but when you start adding poly resin and fiberglass that is when it gets heavy. Look at it this way. ViS Hoods are on an average I would say about only 10% carbon fiber and the rest is either fiberglass, resin, or metal for the venting and latches

dofu
02-04-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by EMI
no I am saying that ViS hoods are KNOWN for being heavy as far as carbon hoods are concerned. Not that they are heavier then stock they are just heavy for carbon hoods

thank you... so wait, you are saying that your hood and hatch would not shatter or crack under any reasonable condition, is lighter than say, seibon, carbon images, or vis, and has a better coating??? how much and what kinda warranty you gots? and lessee... what else you gots? if i buy from you, and i get chipped, cracked, whatever, even discoloration, will you replace or refund? coz i hear from you that your products are good, but i dont kno or even see anybody i kno and trust with your product. i will need everything on contract before i buy... thanx

btw... whats with the fit? the right side of your hood seems lower than the left... and yea, im only "inquiring"... future reference. not planning on buying anything at this exact moment

EMI
02-04-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by dofu
thank you... so wait, you are saying that your hood and hatch would not shatter or crack under any reasonable condition, is lighter than say, seibon, carbon images, or vis, and has a better coating??? how much and what kinda warranty you gots? and lessee... what else you gots? if i buy from you, and i get chipped, cracked, whatever, even discoloration, will you replace or refund? coz i hear from you that your products are good, but i dont kno or even see anybody i kno and trust with your product. i will need everything on contract before i buy... thanx

I am not writing this to try and sell my stuff. I do not even make anything exterior yet for the EP. I make mostly race application products. Under normal driving conditions you should not have a problem. Seibon is called a knock off company. Gezz now that I think about it almost all carbon places are knock off companies. probally 80% of all carbon stuff that comes from overseas are made in the same factory. ViS DOES NOT make their own stuff. Another factory does and they put their name on them. If I can order as much as ViS does I could do the same. I warrenty everything I sell because I take pride in great craftsmanship. We are not just a ran out of a garage operation. We have state of the art equipment and high trained composite techs that manufacture the products and all made in house in our facility. My intentions in making these posts were to help educate you guys from the behind the scenes stand point. But every company tries to cut corners to reduce material and labor costs. Even big guys like spoon and mugen and even honda do it. But you do not have to down grade materials in the process or use inferior products like a lot of carbon companies do

2k2civicSi
02-04-2004, 05:00 PM
Man he is not trying to sell you a hood he is giving you info

2k2civicSi
02-04-2004, 05:01 PM
you beat me to it i guess he is reading what he wants to read

dofu
02-04-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by EMI
Carbon fiber is way lighter then stock! but when you start adding poly resin and fiberglass that is when it gets heavy. Look at it this way. ViS Hoods are on an average I would say about only 10% carbon fiber and the rest is either fiberglass, resin, or metal for the venting and latches

wait... doesnt fiberglass crack??? and plus, the only metal i see on my hood is the latch, hinges and nuts and bolts holding it, no fiberglass or anything else. and dont you need resin for carbon fiber? how else is it gonna hold??? and back to the kevlar part... so your sayin your workin with carbon kevlar? whats the difference? i always thought carbon kevlar comes out with a green/yellow tint?

dofu
02-04-2004, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by EMI
My intentions in making these posts were to help educate you guys from the behind the scenes stand point.

understood... i jus have questions coz i kno about quality of names... not much about production
and i might be interested in buying later this year if you actually have something for my car too

EMI
02-04-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by dofu
wait... doesnt fiberglass crack??? and plus, the only metal i see on my hood is the latch, hinges and nuts and bolts holding it, no fiberglass or anything else. and dont you need resin for carbon fiber? how else is it gonna hold??? and back to the kevlar part... so your sayin your workin with carbon kevlar? whats the difference? i always thought carbon kevlar comes out with a green/yellow tint?

We use 100% kevlar not the hybrid which is carbon kevlar. Dupont is just strait yellow. We use epoxy resin not poly, which is way different. There is fiberglass there and a lot of it. Think about this, carbon mostly is the width of 5 sheets of paper. Your hood has one on the outside and if double sided one on the skeleton. If you hood is not as thick as 10 sheets of paper then the rest of it is fiberglass and poly. Just because you can not see it does not mean it is not there. Vis Hoods are about 1 layer carbon and about 4-6 layers of fiberglass

dofu
02-04-2004, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by EMI
I do not even make anything exterior yet for the EP. I make mostly race application products.

sorry for all the questions, but does this mean you have something for interior? lol (please dont say "dash kit")

FCobra94
02-04-2004, 07:49 PM
Wow! :eek: Thanks for the heads up EMI, I never would have guessed any of that stuff to be true of those companies.

I'll keep all that in mind if/when I'm ready to get one ;)

BlasTech
02-04-2004, 08:30 PM
thanks for the insights EMI.

For you DIY'ers, epoxy resin also doesnt make you sick when you work with it the way Poly's usually will. Epoxy will also withstand temperature and UV better than Poly resin, but it does cost more.

I want to hear wchan chime in on this...

prracer617
02-17-2004, 08:27 AM
i mean ok..that understandable but is vis still a good product? now lets al lface the reality ...as much as we all love to say here i got this big time drag car ... most of us spend so muc hmoney making it go and look fast that when we get it their we wouldnt get it over 85 for fear of destroying the ridoulous amount of money i put into it .. so why complain that the cf hatch is a little heavy for a cf hatch reality is most of the time its a street car so who cares... ow many street races do you really get into in a week.. i say if its still good quality it still a good product now if you thinking of taking you ep on a pro drag tour then get the super light cf shit but whats the difference if the hood wieghs 7lbs to 9lbs....most of us might be dreaming of that 10 sec but know the reality of real world daily driving ....liek im getting a german/jdm kit for my ep3 you think im gonna be speeding with a kit thats 2200 made of fiberglass hell noooo lol why cause it cost to much dam money to get to go racer happy on it ....reality we might have the go power but most aint willing to push unless you own a shop to be replacing what you go easily and even then it still cost you money ...

EMI
02-17-2004, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by prracer617
i mean ok..that understandable but is vis still a good product? now lets al lface the reality ...as much as we all love to say here i got this big time drag car ... most of us spend so muc hmoney making it go and look fast that when we get it their we wouldnt get it over 85 for fear of destroying the ridoulous amount of money i put into it .. so why complain that the cf hatch is a little heavy for a cf hatch reality is most of the time its a street car so who cares... ow many street races do you really get into in a week.. i say if its still good quality it still a good product now if you thinking of taking you ep on a pro drag tour then get the super light cf shit but whats the difference if the hood wieghs 7lbs to 9lbs....most of us might be dreaming of that 10 sec but know the reality of real world daily driving ....liek im getting a german/jdm kit for my ep3 you think im gonna be speeding with a kit thats 2200 made of fiberglass hell noooo lol why cause it cost to much dam money to get to go racer happy on it ....reality we might have the go power but most aint willing to push unless you own a shop to be replacing what you go easily and even then it still cost you money ...


This is a good point to look at it, like I said most people will be happy with ViS hoods. One reason I choose to not use a ViS hood is my car is a race car and creates lots of heat. Since ViS uses poly, it is not made for heat.

prracer617
02-17-2004, 09:02 AM
There you go word from the wise ....

VIS GOOD for street/show

VIS NO GOOD FOR (PRO RACE) wiill burst to flame and you will die ..lol

i love cf stuff but when will it end i just say a cf gas lid for the ep3 and rims wrappedin cf

prracer617
02-17-2004, 09:05 AM
i know seibon just came out with a buddy club to kit in all cf ...oooooooh baby do i wanna see pics of that !!!!!(drooling)

eggsi
02-17-2004, 08:43 PM
bc kit made of cf, i highly doubt it, but i would love to see, can't imagine the price.

prracer617
02-18-2004, 12:27 AM
dude i called they told me it was in buddy club 2 style ...it was also modeled from a type r so im taking its a jdm rebar fit he told me the kit was like 1900 + shipping

prracer617
02-18-2004, 12:28 AM
well this is what i was told also VIS RACING told me the same thing that they have a buddy club cf kit too going for like 1800

eggsi
02-18-2004, 10:56 AM
ok im not calling bs on you, but thats something that i would only believe when i actually saw it on the ep, and not a chop.:p

prracer617
02-19-2004, 06:20 AM
hey im not saying i saw it??? call vis or seibon and ask them they'll tel lyo uthe same thing ??? unless they was pulling my leg it sounded like he was serious

03CivicSi
02-28-2004, 08:21 PM
I'm sorry for the irrelevance but if the showstoppers hatch is the heavy shit, is the K Style hood from showstoppers also made of the poly resin?? or is that lighter than stock? and even if it is lighter than stock is it the more breakable kind??

Thanks!

02SilverSiHB
02-28-2004, 08:30 PM
well, the VIS carbon fiber mugen wing I bought from them is heavier than it should be for carbon fiber. After feeling carbon fiber from Fiberimages...that shit is light. My rear bumper and two side skirts still don't add up to the weight of the wing I bought.

It feels more like heavy fiberglass.
Oh well, it's not like it weighs 50lbs.