I know when Tokico is releasing there struts for the EP's

[WideBody EP3]

I went to a trade show in New Jersey for work today and was speaking to a Tokico Rep about our cars and I asked him when the shocks and struts were coming out. He told me that they will be out for May 2004 Definatly. He said they are going to be a full replacement, not cartridge and the reason it is taking so long is because of the steering arm on our cars need to be attached by a special process( I think that was some bullshit). Also he said that they will not be as cheap as the previous model civics and will be about $500.00, also they will only make a Non Adjustable and a 16-Way adjustable shock. They will not be made in the Illumina series.

[jaydub]

I fully believe the stuff about the steering arm on the strut. That piece of shit is exactly why suspension modifications are so difficult on this car. Honda fucked that one up.


(can you sense my anger here? :D)

[HondaMan]

Originally posted by jaydub
I fully believe the stuff about the steering arm on the strut. That piece of shit is exactly why suspension modifications are so difficult on this car. Honda fucked that one up.


(can you sense my anger here? :D)

Exactly, that's a dumb design...that Japanese are sort of bad about things like that (I know first hand).

[civicracer1128]

great. $500 shocks. just what we look for in tockico. lets all pay the same amount of cash for shocks made by konis little brother. hmmmmmmmmmmm.....basics or mugen.......basics or mugen????????

[chunky]

Originally posted by HondaMan
Exactly, that's a dumb design...that Japanese are sort of bad about things like that (I know first hand).

hmmm. . . .i'm guessing you never read up on WHY honda put the arm there?

it's there for a good reason as far as suspengion geometry goes. and it's why honda's implementation of mc phereson strut is better than a lot of others.

[phatfreeza]

i'm tired of waiting for cheaper aftermarket strut/shock replacements. i'm guessing a lot of other people feel this way too. when my shocks go, i'm going back to 4X4 mode... say, how much are oem shocks/struts anyway?

[dofu]

Originally posted by phatfreeza
i'm tired of waiting for cheaper aftermarket strut/shock replacements.

thats why i jus went and put tein basics in my car... full coilover for less than $800 shipped. konis for $500, agx for $700, mugens or spoon for over a g... i dont have hella money to spend, but i dont want konis and i needed new springs too... so iput an extra hundred above the price of the agx and bought the teins...

[HondaMan]

Originally posted by chunky
hmmm. . . .i'm guessing you never read up on WHY honda put the arm there?

it's there for a good reason as far as suspengion geometry goes. and it's why honda's implementation of mc phereson strut is better than a lot of others.

Then explain how this suspension setup is so much better. It's still basically a MacPherson strut suspension so I doubt the change has increased "performance" that much, so I would love to hear your take on it since I'm probably wrong. :p

My main point was that it is dumb; simply because it is a costly design change from a manufacturing/producability stand point and some aftermarket companies like Tokico are taking a long time to develop a replacement setup due to this change.

[Burgh]

Originally posted by chunky
hmmm. . . .i'm guessing you never read up on WHY honda put the arm there?


I heard, from a very reputable source, that the reason for the change was to get more legroom in the passenger compartment.

What have you heard? Curious...

[slc71]

I hope that is $500.00 for all four shocks and not each.

Either way
Tokico Shocks - $500.00
Eibach Sportlines - $180.00

I agree with dofu just get some Tein Basics or D2 Racing (when available) coilovers

[HondaMan]

Yep, Tein Basics would be the way to go (I love mine). ;)

[!@#$%]

when tokico releases I will justify the tein basic vs the shock purchase as well.

[chunky]

Originally posted by HondaMan
Then explain how this suspension setup is so much better. It's still basically a MacPherson strut suspension so I doubt the change has increased "performance" that much, so I would love to hear your take on it since I'm probably wrong. :p

My main point was that it is dumb; simply because it is a costly design change from a manufacturing/producability stand point and some aftermarket companies like Tokico are taking a long time to develop a replacement setup due to this change.

Well, it is still just a modified mc pherson strut so it's not like it's night and day v.s. other mc phereson strut setups.

But it's proper name is toe-control mcpherson strut. Putting the tie rod link higher on the suspension results in less toe change over bumps, which gives you more precise steering. It also allowed them to use much longer tie rods (ever notices how LONG our tie rods are v.s. the previous honda racks?) This also improves steering feedback and reduces bump steer.

Most people would hardly notice the difference, but if you auto-x or drive in a spirited manner, the difference is favorable. I personally like the steering of this car better than any previous civic by FAR.

[chunky]

Originally posted by Burgh
I heard, from a very reputable source, that the reason for the change was to get more legroom in the passenger compartment.

What have you heard? Curious...

the steering rack placement on the ep3 has almost no bearing on legroom up front. . . .

typically it's mounted lower, but on our car, having it higher allows more room for the header.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by chunky


it's there for a good reason as far as suspengion geometry goes. and it's why honda's implementation of mc phereson strut is better than a lot of others.
it is the best of mc phereson strut designs, you definitely right about that.

[02SilverSiHB]

Originally posted by chunky
Well, it is still just a modified mc pherson strut so it's not like it's night and day v.s. other mc phereson strut setups.

But it's proper name is toe-control mcpherson strut. Putting the tie rod link higher on the suspension results in less toe change over bumps, which gives you more precise steering. It also allowed them to use much longer tie rods (ever notices how LONG our tie rods are v.s. the previous honda racks?) This also improves steering feedback and reduces bump steer.

Most people would hardly notice the difference, but if you auto-x or drive in a spirited manner, the difference is favorable. I personally like the steering of this car better than any previous civic by FAR.
I have to agree with you on this also. Ask me a few months ago, I might have whined some more about this suspension :D
I should take a pic of my wifes mazda protege 1998 LX...their tie rods are smaller than you could believe! definitely not an autoxing car! :D

[t-rex]

Well, it's May. Does anyone know if these are out, or will be soon?

[chubbychu]

lol! are agx's really 700? i figured them around 450 ish...

[t-rex]

Originally posted by plainol2k2si
lol! are agx's really 700? i figured them around 450 ish...

AGX aren't out until August, so we don't know pricing yet. I wouldn't think it'll be more than $500 for the set though.

[slc71]

Pricing is on Tire Rack. $440.00 for the whole set.

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?autoMake=Honda&autoModel=Civic+Si+Hatchback&autoYear=2003&autoModClar=&make=KYB&model=AGX+Adjustable&group=AGX+Adjustable&partNum=731004

[chubbychu]

tirerack already has pricing out for the agx's it should come out to around 500 shipped.

sounds cheaper than basics, and mugens and d2s

[dofu]

i got the $700 price from wheel works back in feb... for the money you're spending, tein basics is a full coilover with adjustable ride height while agx's are only shocks/struts, but they are adjustable...
are the tokicos for the ep even out yet???

[!@#$%]

subscribed.

[zeroz52]

Originally posted by civicracer1128
great. $500 shocks. just what we look for in tockico. lets all pay the same amount of cash for shocks made by konis little brother. hmmmmmmmmmmm.....basics or mugen.......basics or mugen????????

D2 ;)

[WikedEP3]

Originally posted by plainol2k2si
tirerack already has pricing out for the agx's it should come out to around 500 shipped.

sounds cheaper than basics, and mugens and d2s
500 for shocks shipped 150-250 for springs shipped your only looking at a difference of 50-150 dollars at the most when obviously full coillover setups are the best thing to go with, since any highly modified and raced car uses them.

[chubbychu]

Originally posted by WikedEP3
500 for shocks shipped 150-250 for springs shipped your only looking at a difference of 50-150 dollars at the most when obviously full coillover setups are the best thing to go with, since any highly modified and raced car uses them.

good point, but i already have springs...but if i could get rid of them, thats a whole different subject.

i dunno, though, theres something about all that 36 way adjustablitly crap thatll never make me content. ill always be adjusting ride height, bla bla bla bla bla.

i dont know what to do anymore.

[BarracksSi]

Originally posted by plainol2k2si
i dunno, though, theres something about all that 36 way adjustablitly crap thatll never make me content. ill always be adjusting ride height, bla bla bla bla bla.

i dont know what to do anymore.

Mugen. :D

Ah, just teasing a bit...


Originally posted by chunky
But it's proper name is toe-control mcpherson strut. Putting the tie rod link higher on the suspension results in less toe change over bumps, which gives you more precise steering.

Finally, an informative post. I've kinda wondered why my EP drove well when stock, and why it's kickass now.

[chubbychu]

Originally posted by BarracksSi
Mugen. :D

Ah, just teasing a bit...



thats what i was thinking...but i dont know if one inch will be enough...

[Zigen5]

I don't think I'll go back to Tokico..I replaced my 91 Integra with them and it made my ride bounce like a ball... :eek: The smallest bumps would make my car go up and down.. I hated it!! At least it would keep me awake when I was driving at night.. :D

[BarracksSi]

Originally posted by plainol2k2si
thats what i was thinking...but i dont know if one inch will be enough...

I like how it looks (to be nitpicky, it's 1.5", but that's not much different from one inch), but that's merely a subjective opinion. I got mine for its handling improvement.

36-way adjustable suspension would allow for the best of all worlds, though -- slam it for cruising, raise it for when the mother-in-law comes to town, firm it up for the track, and softer for going to the grocery store. I like not having to worry about how to set mine, but I can see the bonuses of adjustable stuff.

[slc71]

Ok doing the math again

AGX = $440.00
Eibach Sportlines = $180.00

Total for 1.5" drop = $620.00

D2 Racing Coilovers = $850.00
D2 Camber Kit = $180.00

Total for adjustable drop = $1030.00

Difference = $380.00

That could buy a header or most the way there to a new exhaust.
I am still torn!

[BarracksSi]

Get the AGX & Sportlines!

[BarracksSi]

Get the D2 setup!

[chubbychu]

lol...i think ill just do the agx's it sounds pretty good...everything else is too expensive

[slc71]

Originally posted by BarracksSi

Get the AGX & Sportlines!

Get the D2 setup!


Huh???

[BarracksSi]

Just doing everything I can to contribute to your dilemma... ;)

[slc71]

thanks for the help! :rolleyes:

Maybe I will just go old school and cut the springs, bet that shit will be nice riding.