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bsdbytes
04-10-2004, 07:21 AM
Tirerack.com has KYB GR-2 and KYB AGX shocks listed on their website. I did a search for a 2003 Honda Civic Si Hatchback and found them. The decription states that they are in a strut housing (not inserts). Could it be true that there are true OE replacements available?

siver-SI
04-10-2004, 07:34 AM
Good find man. They are still a special order, but it looks like they came out with them. Just wondering what is the warrenty on KYB's?

adding link

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/suspension.jsp?autoMake=Honda&autoModel=Civic+Si+Hatchback&autoYear=2003&autoModClar=&make=KYB&model=GR-2+Strut&group=GR-2

Lucid Moments
04-10-2004, 07:39 AM
I just went and looked and noticed one thing. When you go into the order page, look at the availability, it says they are on backorder.

Does this mean they are coming out soon? I don't know but would love to find out.

esmith13
04-10-2004, 07:40 AM
Well according to tire rack's people both available KYB models are ABOUT to be released (approx. 4 weeks). The KYB GR-2 model is non adjustable and recommended for stock ride height or pro kit 1.0" drop only. the KYB AGX Adjustable model are externially adjustable and made for lowered applications with drops more than 1.0" and are externally adjustable without removal.

Oh and they have confirmed these are specifically for the EP3 civic. Tire Rack has an order in with KYB for a few hundred sets already and was told approx 4 weeks till they recieve them.

Cost for the GR-2 Non-Adjustables: Front $88/ea, Rear $57/ea
Cost for the AGX Adjustables: Front $128/ea, Rear $92/ea

Pic of the AGX Adjustable Strut:
http://www.tirerack.com/images/suspension/search_susp/large/kyb_agx_lg.jpg

I'm gonna check KYB's site next and call them :D

Eric

siver-SI
04-10-2004, 07:52 AM
Sweet AGX for me. Just have to save up the $.

esmith13
04-10-2004, 08:04 AM
I emailed Tech Support at KYB. We'll see what they have to say about it....

I'm all excited now... :D


Eric

slc71
04-10-2004, 08:15 AM
Finally an adjustable damper alternative to coilovers.
With a set of Eibach Sportlines that would only be $645.00.
Good news!

slc71
04-10-2004, 08:16 AM
Finally an adjustable alternative to coilovers.
With a set of Eibach Sportlines that would only be $645.00.
Good news!

trk
04-10-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by slc71
Finally an adjustable alternative to coilovers.
With a set of Eibach Sportlines that would only be $645.00.
Good news!

The KYB GR-2 model is non adjustable and recommended for stock ride height or pro kit 1.0" drop only.

Thats a bummer.

chubbychu
04-10-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by trk
The KYB GR-2 model is non adjustable and recommended for stock ride height or pro kit 1.0" drop only.

Thats a bummer.

"RECOMMENDED" comon now...the recommended drop for stock shocks is 0.0" and do we folllow that? NOPE...i dont think that it could hurt too much especially since it is a stronger shock altogether.

trk
04-10-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by plainol2k2si
"RECOMMENDED" comon now...the recommended drop for stock shocks is 0.0" and do we folllow that? NOPE...i dont think that it could hurt too much especially since it is a stronger shock altogether.

I just find it odd that the first set of "aftermarket" cheap struts on the market and they are made for little to no drop ... I mean this car sucks without a drop. Who would buy an ep3 not lower it BUT would spend money on better shocks? Seems like they missed the market with that shock. But the other adjustable shock is quite promising.

I already have the mugen suspension but for others this is great info.

chubbychu
04-10-2004, 10:43 AM
yea...

hey maybe they just wanted us to buy the more expensive shock. =o)

siver-SI
04-10-2004, 10:44 AM
Ok just wondering does anyone know the warrenty on these? I will still for the adjustables though because they might be good for auto x.

esmith13
04-10-2004, 01:26 PM
you guys don't read too well do ya...

I listed two sets of shocks above. The AGX Adjustables are for cars with OVER a 1.0" drop... You know - like 1.5" and 2.0" drops...

Geez... Their not even that much more money AND their adjustable!!

Eric

graham
04-10-2004, 02:08 PM
I ran adjustable AGXs on my GSR ... they were fantastic. About time!

chubbychu
04-10-2004, 02:21 PM
so will this replace the whole factory strut? i wont have to get another alignement if i do this do i? arg...

esmith13
04-10-2004, 03:39 PM
yup. they replace the entire strut - these are not inserts.

You WILL need another alignment. Glad i had mine done at sears and got a 6mos. unconditional warranty :D :D i got 4mos to get these puppies in and a free alignment.

Tire rack had reviews of KYB adjustables from older year honda owners and they were all glowing reviews 8 out of 10 or higher.

Eric

Heitzke
04-10-2004, 09:31 PM
Man, i am completely sold on these. As soon as they come out, it's pretty safe to say that i will be picking up a set. It will be nice to have the opportunity to have a nice setup without tons of hassle or spending alot of money.

vivid blue Si
04-10-2004, 09:34 PM
if i go with the h&r springs with the 1.75 front and 1.5 rear drop
and these koni adjustables could I properly align it with out a camber
kit? thanks

esmith13
04-11-2004, 09:46 AM
First off, wee not discussing koni adjutables...

Secondly, I highly doubt it. Do it right or don't bother. Somewhere down the line it will end up costing you a whole lot more if you don't.

Eric

slc71
04-11-2004, 10:25 AM
Does anyone know the part numbers on the AGX or GR-2 yet?
I looked around the web and could not find em.

the JigGa mAn
04-11-2004, 10:29 AM
i was waiting for these...i wanted to run the AGXs with H&R sports...

how much do the H&R sports drop?

chubbychu
04-12-2004, 03:11 PM
so is this gonna make us handle like mugen suspension?

n i c k e l
04-12-2004, 03:43 PM
just subscribing

siver-SI
04-12-2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by n i c k e l
just subscribing

Just to let you know if you look at the bottom of this post you will se a link saying "Subscribe to this Thread". All you have to do is click on this and you are set, no posting needed.

the JigGa mAn
04-12-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by siver-SI
Just to let you know if you look at the bottom of this post you will se a link saying "Subscribe to this Thread". All you have to do is click on this and you are set, no posting needed.


LOL...

how much of a drop do H&R sport springs give you?

chubbychu
04-12-2004, 06:35 PM
2 in

1 fstr si
04-12-2004, 07:25 PM
at my work we decided to stop handling monroe struts and shocks, and just by luck, we decided to start handling KYB. boy was i happy. then KYB sent out a factory rep with cutouts and samples of all of their shocks. and ill tell ya, the AGX's have alot of stuff inside of em. pretty cool. just to add some info. the GR-2's are a direct factory rep[lacement, BUT, they arent the same. they are valved to be more sporty. if you take a brand new 04 with 100 miles on it, put a set of GR-2's on it and leave it stock suspension wise, there will be a noticable difference. this is what the rep told me. he gave me the number for the KYB tech line and that number is 1-800-KYB-CORP . he liked the looks of the si and was curious about it, so, i took him for a little spin. the JRSC put a serious smile on his face when i got on it, and he said that the 2" drop of the progress springs would match up well with the adjustability of the AGX's. theres my input, run with it 1-800-KYB-CORP

siver-SI
04-12-2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by 1 fstr si
at my work we decided to stop handling monroe struts and shocks, and just by luck, we decided to start handling KYB. boy was i happy. then KYB sent out a factory rep with cutouts and samples of all of their shocks. and ill tell ya, the AGX's have alot of stuff inside of em. pretty cool. just to add some info. the GR-2's are a direct factory rep[lacement, BUT, they arent the same. they are valved to be more sporty. if you take a brand new 04 with 100 miles on it, put a set of GR-2's on it and leave it stock suspension wise, there will be a noticable difference. this is what the rep told me. he gave me the number for the KYB tech line and that number is 1-800-KYB-CORP . he liked the looks of the si and was curious about it, so, i took him for a little spin. the JRSC put a serious smile on his face when i got on it, and he said that the 2" drop of the progress springs would match up well with the adjustability of the AGX's. theres my input, run with it 1-800-KYB-CORP

Think your work could setup a good group buy? Also what is the warrenty with the AGX's? No one will tell me and I can not find it on their site.

the JigGa mAn
04-12-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by siver-SI
Think your work could setup a good group buy? Also what is the warrenty with the AGX's? No one will tell me and I can not find it on their site.


i would be down for a group buy


also how would you compare the AGX and H&R sport springs to tein flex?

Burgh
04-13-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by the JigGa mAn

also how would you compare the AGX and H&R sport springs to tein flex?

If you drop too low with the spring-shock combo you'll run out of suspension travel in the EP real fast. I think coilovers like the Flex have adjustable shock bodies to keep this from happening.

the JigGa mAn
04-13-2004, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Burgh
If you drop too low with the spring-shock combo you'll run out of suspension travel in the EP real fast. I think coilovers like the Flex have adjustable shock bodies to keep this from happening.

whats suspension travel?

Burgh
04-13-2004, 10:03 AM
Travel is how much your suspension can move before it hits the bumpstops. With lowering springs, you shorten the spring length and effectively reduce the amount of travel in your suspension. It really shouldn't be a big deal unless you plan on lowering the car a LOT. And it probably also won't be a problem for just daily driving.

Do a search on this page for it and you can see how GRM addressed the issue on their EP.
http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/02civicsi.html

esmith13
04-13-2004, 10:14 AM
NOTE: I am making up numbers for the sake of explanation only...

Ok, lets say at stock ride height, the EP has 6" os suspension travel. Imagine your car at stock height parked on the street. Now imagine if a force or giant hand pushed down on your car's roof. The car would lower on it's own suspension a maximum of 6" at which point it would be sitting as low as possible right on it's bumpstops. The shocks could not compress anymore and theirfore neither could the springs. If the force of the car let go - the car wouold spring back up the 6" (or higher due to rebound) and then settle back where is was.

That 6" is your suspension travel stock.

Now if you lower the car 2" - it now sits only 4" above the bump stops which is know as when the car is "bottomed out" meaning once again - as low as it can go. You have now taken away 2" of cushioning of the car's frame and body.

Why is this important?

Picture what happens when one wheel rides into a pothole. At first the wheel lowers into the hole on it's own. Then the body of the car drops down to the reletave ride height of the car (if the wheel lowered 5" into the hole the body will want to go the same 5" down to maintain it's stance on the springs.) Now as the body lowers down, the wheel pops up outta the other side of the pothole. So now you have the wheel shooting up and the body falling down at the same time. The springs will attempt to cushion this event by compresing and the shocks by dampening the compression speed - but in the end what will matter is if you suspension has enough "travel" to allow these two forces time to be slowed down as they move toward each other and not bottom out the car. The harder their pushed toward each other, the more time/travel is needed for the shocks and springs to slow the speed of them compressing toward each other (the wheel into the wheel well) So they don't bottom out.

Damn, that's hard to explain in lamen's terms....

Hope that helped a little. ;)

Eric

BSEVEER
04-13-2004, 10:52 AM
A lot of our cars suspension travel, or any car for that matter, is used as "sag". That means the cars weight compresses the suspension through a lot of it's full travel when it's just sitting still. I'm not sure but I think most of the travel is used as sag.

VividDreams
04-13-2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
NOTE: I am making up numbers for the sake of explanation only...

Ok, lets say at stock ride height, the EP has 6" os suspension travel. Imagine your car at stock height parked on the street. Now imagine if a force or giant hand pushed down on your car's roof. The car would lower on it's own suspension a maximum of 6" at which point it would be sitting as low as possible right on it's bumpstops. The shocks could not compress anymore and theirfore neither could the springs. If the force of the car let go - the car wouold spring back up the 6" (or higher due to rebound) and then settle back where is was.

That 6" is your suspension travel stock.

Now if you lower the car 2" - it now sits only 4" above the bump stops which is know as when the car is "bottomed out" meaning once again - as low as it can go. You have now taken away 2" of cushioning of the car's frame and body.

Why is this important?

Picture what happens when one wheel rides into a pothole. At first the wheel lowers into the hole on it's own. Then the body of the car drops down to the reletave ride height of the car (if the wheel lowered 5" into the hole the body will want to go the same 5" down to maintain it's stance on the springs.) Now as the body lowers down, the wheel pops up outta the other side of the pothole. So now you have the wheel shooting up and the body falling down at the same time. The springs will attempt to cushion this event by compresing and the shocks by dampening the compression speed - but in the end what will matter is if you suspension has enough "travel" to allow these two forces time to be slowed down as they move toward each other and not bottom out the car. The harder their pushed toward each other, the more time/travel is needed for the shocks and springs to slow the speed of them compressing toward each other (the wheel into the wheel well) So they don't bottom out.

Damn, that's hard to explain in lamen's terms....

Hope that helped a little. ;)

Eric


to go a step farther, thats why cuttin stock springs to lower a car is not recommended. aftermarket lowering springs have higher spring rates. usually getting stiffer the lower you go. for example, a set of lowering springs that drop you two inches, are ~the same height as if you would cut your stock springs 2 inches. the difference being, the stock springs are made with a relatively(compared to lowering springs) soft spring rate. what i mean is that the aftermarket springs compensate for the reduced travel with a higher, stiffer spring rate, or a prgressive spring rate. these are the best of both worlds, they have a fairly soft spring rate for the first inch or so of coil, then as you go farther down the spring, the coils get tighet(closer together) and stiffer, this enables the spring to do 4 things, lower the car, have a decent ride for normal driving, get aggressive and stiff for aggressive driving, and at the same time compensate for irregularities in the road with a stiffer rate. as opposed to lowering springs with one rate(usually really low springs) which are one rate over the whole spring.


cut stockers still "think" that they have the "6" inches of travel, thus are prone to bottoming out more.

hope that helped and didnt confuse

esmith13
04-13-2004, 02:09 PM
Not to be a dick, but that is EXACTLY why I can't believe so many people use the Tein springs on their EPs!! They are not made for the Si specifically. They lower the car 1.5" and the spring rate for the fronts is LOWER than the spring rate for the stock EP3 springs. In my mind that makes the fronts on the teins worse than cutting stock springs. Take into account that most of the weight is up there and picture what nose diving in your car woould be like and you'll see why I personally put my money in Eibach's hands...

Just my opinion - please don't flame. ;)


Eric

eurosteez
04-13-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
Not to be a dick, but that is EXACTLY why I can't believe so many people use the Tein springs on their EPs!! They are not made for the Si specifically. They lower the car 1.5" and the spring rate for the fronts is LOWER than the spring rate for the stock EP3 springs. In my mind that makes the fronts on the teins worse than cutting stock springs. Take into account that most of the weight is up there and picture what nose diving in your car woould be like and you'll see why I personally put my money in Eibach's hands...

Just my opinion - please don't flame. ;)


Eric

I back ya on this one. I would even say its worse on the stock shocks as well due to the spring rate being lower combined with a lower drop.

anyways

about time kyb is finally doing this.

somoenoe should definitly talk to kyb about a group buy cuz ephatch could get a HUGE group going on for this one

siver-SI
04-13-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
Not to be a dick, but that is EXACTLY why I can't believe so many people use the Tein springs on their EPs!! They are not made for the Si specifically. They lower the car 1.5" and the spring rate for the fronts is LOWER than the spring rate for the stock EP3 springs. In my mind that makes the fronts on the teins worse than cutting stock springs. Take into account that most of the weight is up there and picture what nose diving in your car woould be like and you'll see why I personally put my money in Eibach's hands...

Just my opinion - please don't flame. ;)


Eric

I have Eibach's too. I have read a lot more people getting rid of their Tein's then Eibachs. Plus a lot of guys have gone their shocks a lot faster with the Tein's. I have only bottom out once and I am not sure if I did because it was not to bad of a jolt, but that was because of a over 3" dip in the road that was not marked and I hit it at over 35mph at night. I hate road constuction.

chubbychu
04-13-2004, 04:04 PM
yeah, someone should tell kyb they have got about 250 members waiting to pay for shocks the day they are released. =o)

slc71
04-13-2004, 04:39 PM
I would be in for a group buy if we can get one setup through a vendor!

the JigGa mAn
04-13-2004, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by esmith13
Not to be a dick, but that is EXACTLY why I can't believe so many people use the Tein springs on their EPs!! They are not made for the Si specifically. They lower the car 1.5" and the spring rate for the fronts is LOWER than the spring rate for the stock EP3 springs. In my mind that makes the fronts on the teins worse than cutting stock springs. Take into account that most of the weight is up there and picture what nose diving in your car woould be like and you'll see why I personally put my money in Eibach's hands...

Just my opinion - please don't flame. ;)


Eric


thats just the tein springs right? your not talking about the tein basics, or flex are you? just makin sure i understand what your sayin...

do you think the KYB AGX shocks with H&R sport springs would be a good combo? also is 2in a BIG drop or is it just right? whos got H&R sport springs and pics that i can see?

thanx for the guys who made posts about suspension travel it helped alot..

esmith13
04-13-2004, 08:02 PM
Right - just the springs. The coilover sare made for the EP3 - but the springs aren't.

I am waiting for a reply from KYB about what drops are good for these shocks, but in general i can tell you that I had a 2.25" drop on neuspeed race springs before. Ride was rough as hell - car bottomed out ALL THE TIME and due to lack of suspension travel I bottomed out so hard twice that I broke 2 17" rims... Needless to say that's why I have eibach sportlines now... Oh, also worth noting is that with 2.25" drop I couldn't use 215/45/17's - 205/40/17 was the LARGEST I could fit without rubbing the tire on the fender!!

... Car did handle like it was on rails tho - I miss that ALOT!! Hopefully these shocks will bring me back to that state with the eibach's.

Eric

seandwd
04-13-2004, 09:20 PM
I haven't heard great things about Ground Control springs on the EP3, but I had a 1994 Civic EX with KYB AGX shocks paired with a set of Ground Control adjustable "coil-over" style springs. It was awesome. One great thing about Ground Control...the springs are manufactured by Eibach and you can order any spring rate you want. I will be getting the AGX shocks for my EP3, with either H&R or Eibach springs, not sure yet.

t-rex
04-13-2004, 11:50 PM
I'm sorry to be the one to report this, but I called KYB today, and was told that these won't be out until August at the earliest.

oldschoolimport
04-13-2004, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by t-rex
I'm sorry to be the one to report this, but I called KYB today, and was told that these won't be out until August at the earliest. maybe my broke ass will have the dough by then. :(

VividDreams
04-14-2004, 01:13 AM
figures:rolleyes:

madbrain
04-14-2004, 08:07 AM
I'm sorry to be the one to report this, but I called KYB today, and was told that these won't be out until August at the earliest.


WTF!!!!

esmith13
04-14-2004, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by t-rex
I'm sorry to be the one to report this, but I called KYB today, and was told that these won't be out until August at the earliest.

I just got my response from KYB today. They told me the same thing. Mid August. They confirmed compatibility with 02-03 only - 04 is being tested (weight difference). The AGX shocks are officially recommended for approx 1.0" drops, but they tested them with Eibach sportlines too and they did very well.

All I have to say is Tire Rack is gonna be PISSED! They are expecting them in in about 4 weeks and ordered a shit load of them.

Oh well...

Eric

slc71
04-14-2004, 09:01 AM
:'(
Now the question is do I wait till august or go with the D2 Racing coilovers?
Will have to wait on the reviews on the D2's to make the decision.

japanese
04-14-2004, 09:38 AM
kyb sucks. they said it would come out in April of 2003. the release date has been changed to a year and a half later. wow

the JigGa mAn
04-14-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by esmith13
I just got my response from KYB today. They told me the same thing. Mid August. They confirmed compatibility with 02-03 only - 04 is being tested (weight difference). The AGX shocks are officially recommended for approx 1.0" drops, but they tested them with Eibach sportlines too and they did very well.

All I have to say is Tire Rack is gonna be PISSED! They are expecting them in in about 4 weeks and ordered a shit load of them.

Oh well...

Eric


if they recomend a 1"drop do you think 2" would be too much for the agx to handel?

slc71
04-14-2004, 04:35 PM
I received a reply back on the part numbers for the shocks, also confirmation on the delay and why.

Email:

Shannon,
Here are the PNs, but they will not be available until mid-summer.
These units have a steering arm that we felt needed more work due to the nature of the "aggressive" use driving.

331008 (RF)
331009 (LF)

2 of the 341311

Tim Oldiges
KYB America LLC
Product Manager
630-620-5555
E-Mail timkyb@attglobal.net


"aggressive" driving = that would be me. :D

chubbychu
04-30-2004, 12:45 AM
well...i guess summer is just around the corner bUT HOLY JEEBUS I NEED BETTER SUSPENSION DARN IT!

t-rex
04-30-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by plainol2k2si
well...i guess summer is just around the corner bUT HOLY JEEBUS I NEED BETTER SUSPENSION DARN IT!

I hear ya, bro!!!

03silverEP
04-30-2004, 03:27 PM
it's unbelievable, this current platform civic has been out 3.5 years (rel. oct. 2000) and no one makes an aftermarket shock yet. Is not the civic the most popular import to fix up? These slow ass companies are losing a ton of money here, retards.....

slc71
04-30-2004, 06:16 PM
We would have got aftermarket suspension much sooner if they would have kept some standards with either a coupe civic or an rsx.
The problem is it is a cross between a regular civic and an rsx.
Sure you can get rsx or civic parts but modifications have to be done to get them to fit.

chubbychu
05-11-2004, 05:27 PM
alright so it should come out to almost 500 bucks for all 4 agx's...i was playing around at tirerack.com pretending to buy stuff.

hey, are agx's going to be a problem with "bottoming out" on h&r's? i dont want to pay 500 bucks for new suspension if its susceptable to bottoming out

slc71
05-11-2004, 05:39 PM
Read the post.
I am going with sportlines for my setup.

chubbychu
05-11-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by slc71
Read the post.
I am going with sportlines for my setup.

haha, i read it. so i suppose the preferred setup is just sportlines or prokits. I guess i could always sell my h&r's for cheap

stephen
05-27-2004, 07:04 AM
Lets throw a big party when these come out.

mrsoul55
05-27-2004, 07:32 AM
The KYB GR-2 model is non adjustable and recommended for stock ride height or pro kit 1.0" drop only. the KYB AGX Adjustable model are externially adjustable and made for lowered applications with drops more than 1.0"

I just need some clarification on this. If our car isn't dropped at all - stock springs - will the AGX's still function ok? I want a sportier shock for autox but can't change springs in the stock class. Thanks for any help.

graham
05-27-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by mrsoul55
I just need some clarification on this. If our car isn't dropped at all - stock springs - will the AGX's still function ok? I want a sportier shock for autox but can't change springs in the stock class. Thanks for any help.

Definately! They will work better with stiffer springs, but with the stock springs, they will definately help bring the slop out ... save those pennies :)

seandwd
06-25-2004, 09:56 AM
I emailed KYB: Any update on when the AGX will be released for 2001 and up Civic Si (EP3)?

Troy Horn @ KYB replied: Wiil be in stock in Sept.

I just wanted to share this info with everyone. I think I may hold out for the KYB's - they are great shocks. I had the KYB AGX's on my 94 EX.

slc71
06-25-2004, 10:17 AM
Not sure about anyone else but I don't think I can wait that long.
May have to go with something else.

siver-SI
06-25-2004, 02:37 PM
I emailed KYB: Any update on when the AGX will be released for 2001 and up Civic Si (EP3)?

Troy Horn @ KYB replied: Wiil be in stock in Sept.

I just wanted to share this info with everyone. I think I may hold out for the KYB's - they are great shocks. I had the KYB AGX's on my 94 EX.

Great to hear my birthday is that month so going to be asking for cash so I can get these.

t-rex
06-25-2004, 02:47 PM
Not sure about anyone else but I don't think I can wait that long.
May have to go with something else.

I got tired of waiting too, man. I finally went with the Pro-Kit on the stock struts. It looks good and rides nice too. Most importantly, I don't have to spend $ on new struts for a long time. I wish the front were just a little lower, but it's much better than stock!!

BTW, I've always wondered...who the heck is that in your avatar? :shockm:

slc71
06-25-2004, 03:28 PM
Stuart Larkin from Mad TV. He Rocks!!!