HELP!! Fast....CTR v. ITR, *Please Read*

[TrueRace]

ONLY REPLY IF YOU ACUTALLY KNOW YOUR SHIT

I recently purchased a K20A motor from a place, I was under the impression that it was the ITR K20A, after further inspection it has turned out to be the CTR K20A...NOW; I have the option to return the motor for a verified ITR K20A...BUT it's a 8 hour round trip to do so...

So, I and some friends have been looking around online, mainly Honda of Japan and j-garage for information; and have found some interesting things

#1: It appears both motors have the same bore/stroke and compression ratio (which leads me to believe they use the same crank, rods, and pistons)

#2: It also appears both use the same Transmission; or at least the same gearing, Final Drive, and LSD; but will the shift linkages be different (ie: Will i not be able to use the CTR w/ the RSX shifter b/c of the different Civic Shifter mounting area)

#3: The K20A ITR motor makes 220ps (216.99 hp) while the K20A CTR motor makes 215ps (212.05 hp)..Could this be ECU related? They both share the same redline

#4: The head, are they the same? Are the cams the same?

#5: TB and IM: I'm about to measure the throttle body, but do the two motors share the same Intake Manifold?

So basically I ask you this:

Are the motors the same?
Will the CTR shifter cables mate to a RSX shifter assembly?

That's all for now..thanks...I also posted in JDM to get more traffic as I need to find the answers in the next 24 hrs, sorry for being a n00b w/ the dual topics but i need the answers...

[DavidT]

The shifter stuff will mate, they are exactly the same except the shift linkage is routed differently according to the car (CTR or ITR). Those motors are exactly the same internally. The only reason why the CTR made 5 HP less is because of a different exhaust design on the CTR. Everything is the same (Cams, pistons, head, block, crank, etc etc). Only exhaust is different.

How did you verify your motor is a CTR motor and not the ITR? The ITR motors have a P/S pump on it. The CTR motors have an idler pully because they have EPS (Electronic power steering). Please check here, very informative:

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=146827&highlight=CTR+ITR

Also, to show you that I am right about the only difference between the two is the exhaust, check here:

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0209ht_typer/

I'd just keep the CTR motor...it's a rarer motor to come by than the ITR. They're the same thing. If you got an 04+ CTR motor, it's got the lighter flywheel too, even better :)

[TrueRace]

Do you know if the ECUs are different (ie, different fuel maps, rev limiter ect..) BTW thank you so much for the information, you saved me a 8 hour trip...

I verified the motors were different when I saw a JDM ITR ECU w/ the PRC stamp on it...I looked at mine and saw PRD (or PDR, it's late and I don't feel like looking) same on the block sticker...

Just to verify, the trannies are identical as well right?

[goy091]

just tell the company you want some money back ;)

[TrueRace]

eh, I'll be keeping the motor.

[JDM_EpTypeR]

Go to K-series .com scroll down till you see "return of the swap thing" they give the step by step on putting the K20 in the Ep so that should clear up any qustions on what will work and what wont

[DavidT]

Trannies should be the same as long as it's the JDM K20A CTR motor. Does your motor have a powersteering pump on it? I got your PM. You're better off with the CTR motor since the 00 Teg you're swapping it into doesn't have powersteering so you don't need to go hunt down the idler pully you already have it on the CTR motor. The ITR motor has the p/s pump instead of the pully.

Also, look on Honda Japan's site and use Altavista's Babelfish to translate the site. You'll see the specs on the ITR and CTR is idenicle. LSD tranny, gearing, final drive, motor specs, everything. Good luck.

[myeverlovinsir]

From what I know about the 2 engines:

1. The ITR cams have the same lift as the CTR cams, the type-s has less lift.

2. The ITR has 3mm larger IM than the type-S IM, not sure where the euro CTR stands, but suspect it's the same as the ITR.

3. The ITR has 11.5 CR and the type-S has 11:1 CR, I think the CTR is also 11.5:1

4. For a while I thought only the DC5R tranny (ITR) has the LSD, but I have seen some sites now saying the CTR has it as well.

Not much else to add. The P/S pump may be the diff. as DavidT mentioned, but only the ITR has the P/S pump, where does it get it's slight power advantage over the CTR considering the P/S pump?

[EtherGhost]

Originally posted by DavidT
The only reason why the CTR made 5 HP less is because of a different exhaust design on the CTR. Everything is the same (Cams, pistons, head, block, crank, etc etc). Only exhaust is different.


Originally posted by myeverlovinsir
Not much else to add. The P/S pump may be the diff. as DavidT mentioned, but only the ITR has the P/S pump, where does it get it's slight power advantage over the CTR considering the P/S pump?

[jdmpwr]

to be exact the CTR is for the most part almost the same as the ITR, the cam profile is a lil different and the compression ratio on the CTR is different then the ITR. The CTR is the same motor as the rsx-s with different cams and exhaust thats it, it still contains the rsx-s compression ratio.

[DavidT]

jdmpwr that's not true. Only the UK CTR is the same as the Type S. The JDM CTR and ITR have the same motor. Go look up Honda Japan's website and look at the specs. Everything is the same, comp. ratio, gear ratios, redline, bore, stroke, etc etc. The JDM CTR also has the same tranny as the ITR...the LSD 6-spd. The UK CTR shares the same tranny as the Type S.

[TrueRace]

Yeah Big thanks to DavidT, a guy who acutally knows his shit. Now my only concern is that the shifter cables aren't long enough....:eek:

[jdmpwr]

to be exact dave the ctr(jdm) has the same rod length and stroke, but then again all k20's have the same rod length and stroke, just different piston design do to the compression ratio. The JDM CTR and the JDM ITR have different cam profiles. I have taken apart a k20a2, i own a k20a (ITR) and a k20a1 (CTR).

[DavidT]

I had a link to the cam profiles and the JDM CTR and ITR are the same but I can't find it :( And it's not a K20A1. The JDM CTR really is just a K20A, I'm not joking. On Honda Japan's website the motor name is K20A just like the JDM ITR. I will ask Toda and Spoon for verification since they work with those motors a lot.

TrueRace, is your JDM CTR motor a K20A or K20A1? I'm 99.9% sure it's a K20A :)

[DavidT]

Here is the link to Honda Japan's JDM CTR site:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.honda.co.jp%2fauto-lineup%2fcivic-r%2fgrade-data%2findex.html

It's translated to English...kind of :) Engine type is K20A. Same as the JDM ITR:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.honda.co.jp%2fauto-lineup%2fintegra_r%2fgrade-data%2f

I just emailed Toda and Spoon, I will quote what they say when the reply.

[TrueRace]

Originally posted by DavidT

TrueRace, is your JDM CTR motor a K20A or K20A1? I'm 99.9% sure it's a K20A :)

I'm 100% sure it's a K20A b/c I have a picture of my block stamp that says K20A :D I'm also sure it's a CTR motor b/c I have no PS pump.

[DavidT]

TrueRace thanks for your comfirmation. I knew it'd be a K20A not K20A1 I've never heard of a K20A1. I also got an email from Spoon, the rep said it was a K20A too but he didn't answer my questions about the cams :( We'll see what Toda says :) Anyhow, good luck on your swap TrueRace you're gonna have one wicked car :) :cool:

[TrueRace]

Originally posted by DavidT
TrueRace thanks for your comfirmation. I knew it'd be a K20A not K20A1 I've never heard of a K20A1. I also got an email from Spoon, the rep said it was a K20A too but he didn't answer my questions about the cams :( We'll see what Toda says :) Anyhow, good luck on your swap TrueRace you're gonna have one wicked car :) :cool:

Thanks...I have a couple more K series questions I wouldn't mind asking you, feel free to hit me up on AIM TrueRaceEng