Ep3 Lacks it in second

[vtecmdnss]

Hey ep hatch members i just got my ep3 yasterday im new to the form and the k-motor. im also a former b-series owner the first thing i noticed was no more 8k shifts. I can live with that i guess. I also noticed with a redline shift there was still a major power drop off in second. i wasnt even shure i was still in vtec. I mean i didnt even hear it like when i test drove the type s. So I researched today to find out ep3 drivers hail turbo's and superchargers and ive gotten gyped with a vtec head that doesnt breath good. I was just thinking that maybe opening up the airway's on this motor would give it some more kick. is thier no hope for simple bolt ons with this car?

[Tenacious G]

http://www.hondata.com/techk20general.html

the K20A3 doesn't have real VTEC ... but even w/o the VTEC, i think the K20A3 is better than the B16

[03silverEP]

yup, we have gimp vtec (ivtec...) it's only on the intake cam and it's constantly variable from 2200-up, so there's no 'on/off' vtec switch like the B motors, to get real vtec and variable timing on the exhaust you need an RSX-S head (K20A2)and ECU $750&up for both, but they you'll have an 8,000 redline and 30 more hp. or the hondata program $600 raises redline to 7700 and 6-11 hp/tq across the board

and you need the A2 head to swap cams, the A3 head can't use A2 or type'r cams, skunk2 maybe coming out w/A3 cams but for the price you could just get the whole A2 head

[vtecmdnss]

well is it a good idea to go with the a2 head? i realize i wont be able to take my a3 block to 8k alot withought problems but will i see power gains before 7k? because if so this sounds like a nice mod for the ep.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by Tenacious G
the K20A3 doesn't have real VTEC
What's your definition of "real"? Seriously. It does have VTEC, albeit with only two cam lobes on intake side only. Still, this is variable valve timing (e.g., valve timing change based on engine rpm). It may not be as sophisticated as the A2 or other Honda VTEC engines, but it does have real variable valve timing.

[Tenacious G]

jesus, why does everyone get technical when i say that.

the A3 doesn't have VTEC as we all have come to love. no high lift/duration lobes. essentially 12-valve operation to 16-valve. in my eyes, it's not "real" VTEC. it's VTEC lite. Diet VTEC. gimp VTEC. satisfied?

;)

[2pointslowEP3]

if you've never had a vtec b-series...then you would actually believe the a3 has "real" vtec. it's as simple as that. it's hard to come from a b-series to the a3...it's just not the same.

[dj addicted]

even with all this talk about the vtec... dont get disouraged... we have numerous ep's on the boards here that are boosting and in the high 200's. We have one that dynoed at 320 to the wheels... and that is a complete A3 motor.. The HP is there.. just have to know how to get it.

[bobdobbs]

Originally posted by Tenacious G
jesus, why does everyone get technical when i say that.
Maybe because it's an inaccurate statement; I'm just guessing. ;)

[graham]

Coming from a B18C, I miss the 8K shifts ... but I love the low end grunt ... great for city driving.

[tjtripp]

Wait till it's broken in. I noticed my motor woke up after I put around 5-6 hundreds miles on it.

[downhil]

Originally posted by vtecmdnss
So I researched today to find out ep3 drivers hail turbo's and superchargers and ive gotten gyped with a vtec head that doesnt breath good.

you bought a car without researching it before hand?:confused:

[TEKBRAIN]

Originally posted by 2pointslowEP3
it's hard to come from a b-series to the a3...it's just not the same.
So true!:)
It's like coming from heavy metal to classical music. The two are good, but they are really different from each others.

[Mugen Power]

Everyone's just used to old school VTEC, that's all.

[2pointslowEP3]

i like how b-series vtec feels like you're actually turning on a switch or something. you can actually hear something opening up/engaging.

ahhh...i can't wait for the a2 head!

[DoMahMeGok]

Originally posted by 03silverEP
or the hondata program $600 raises redline to 7700 and 6-11 hp/tq across the board


from what i remember, I thought hondata did not improve the horsepower across the band, did hondata release a new flash that did increase power? or was that just a misunderstanding?

[bobdobbs]

http://www.hondata.com/images/k30a3civicsistockvstune.gif

;)

[ATRIOT]

To be fair the above posted graph illustrates the effect of Hondata on a stock EP3 (also the difference in octane levels accounts for 2hp). If you have a CAI and a header your graph would look something like this:http://www.hondata.com/images/k20a3ancivicsi.gif




Hondata Says :

We suspect there is something not quite right. With a CAI, Flash and headers it made the same or less power than a stock Civic Si with flash under 5500 rpm.

[!@#$%]

Originally posted by DoMahMeGok
from what i remember, I thought hondata did not improve the horsepower across the band, did hondata release a new flash that did increase power? or was that just a misunderstanding?

trust me, with hondata the power made in transition from 2nd-3rd and 3rd-4th is where it shines.

[vtecmdnss]

Originally posted by downhil
you bought a car without researching it before hand?:confused: well actually yea i didnt do too much research on the motor before i bought it i figured dohc vtec nuff said. my main concern was the differences between models i was givin two choices this or anny other model 04 civic . besides had i found this out before hand i woulda still bought it. because i didnt have that much of a choice. it was this or back to d-series good lord i dont miss that. and its kool because the ep3 still has potential.

[phantasia]

you need to relax. learn to drive the ep. break her in, properly. take her easy. she is one beautiful fucking little honda. chill. learn everything u can before you start to mod. first up should be wheels/tires. the ep has great suspension/handling but is undertired. take a while with your new rubber and learn some more. then proceed to suspension upgrades. your ep will outhandle basically anything on the road if you learn to drive her. next up some engine bolt ons. intake/exhaust, whatever u want. youll see that a quality intake will do wonders to this engine. i have the k&n typhoon. you will feel the difference immediately. that stock airbox is far too restrictive. go with a quality cat-back. i have a greddy evo II. quiet and a TON of high end.

learn to drive the ep. youll be surprised at what it can do, stock. you have a new car, a beautiful little honda that in time will become an extension of yourself. you will become one with this car, but at first you really have to drive and learn. 2nd gear is strong. you will learn.

[vtecmdnss]

anyone else ever get flamed because they didnt get the coupe? everyone always tells me how ugly my hatch is and how it looks like a focus. but to me the performance and styling fits my personality especially once i get some ctr exterior parts. I think they are just closed minded and soon to be smoked.:D

[stockblack'03]

Welcome to the "Ugly Club". Seriously, having a rig that all the other wankers out there think is ugly is half the fun of owning an EP.

[ntense-visions]

I used to own a 99 Si and I used to be one of the guys who thought the EP3's were dog ass ugly. But the more and more I got to lookin at it and researching it the more I started liking it. The body styling all flows so smoothly, the interior is so much better than the em1s by far. Now I'm a proud owner of an 04 EP3. Just saving up some money for an A2 head and ecu.

[vtecmdnss]

funny i coulda swore u were quoting me. i had a 99 si also. and i wanted to do the a2 head and ecu swap but i cant find one. it seems u can only get it in a complete package.

[blueiedgod]

Originally posted by phantasia
you need to relax. learn to drive the ep. break her in, properly. take her easy. she is one beautiful fucking little honda.
learn to drive the ep. you ll be surprised at what it can do, stock. you have a new car, a beautiful little honda that in time will become an extension of yourself. you will become one with this car, but at first you really have to drive and learn.

That is beautiful, lol

But, I agree, learn what your limits are with the stock, then modify. You'll be surprized what you can do, even with stock tires and a little driving skill. Stock tires are actually good for making the rear swing :-)

As far as it being ugly, "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, and you be holding one ugly hatchback" think of Si as Matrix coupe. For some people coupes are fine (small people), for others, like me, Si is the perfect height.