Jackson Racing SC kit for our Si. [Archive]

02SilverSiHB

10-14-2002, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by JSIR
the Vortech SC would be a safer more reliable method of boosting compared to Jackson Racing's design, but JR is famous for bottom end torque.
JR is famous for that because it boost so fast....which in turns gives detonation.

Ritteri

10-14-2002, 11:04 AM

I personally have used both companies in the past(Vortech and Jackson). I find the Jackson to be far superior for 2 reasons.

1. Reliability. I dont think anyone will argue that an Eaton blower does its job without worries.
2. Bottom end torque.

People who state that JRSC have a detonation potential dont know much about SC's. Using any kind of SC or turbo for that matter means that you should use a colder spark plug AND upgrade your fuel delivery system REGARDLESS.Sure you can get by without doing this but when these steps are taken then there will not be a detonation problem or even a potential. As long as your honda engine runs rich(like they are designed to)you will be fine. Using high octane gas dont hurt either.

02SilverSiHB

10-14-2002, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Ritteri
I personally have used both companies in the past(Vortech and Jackson). I find the Jackson to be far superior for 2 reasons.

1. Reliability. I dont think anyone will argue that an Eaton blower does its job without worries.
2. Bottom end torque.

People who state that JRSC have a detonation potential dont know much about SC's. Using any kind of SC or turbo for that matter means that you should use a colder spark plug AND upgrade your fuel delivery system REGARDLESS.Sure you can get by without doing this but when these steps are taken then there will not be a detonation problem or even a potential. As long as your honda engine runs rich(like they are designed to)you will be fine. Using high octane gas dont hurt either.
1. nope, mine went out.
2. yeah, we already got that :D

I had colder spark plugs, and I upgraded my fuel system. I had detonation even with all this:
Cartech FMU
J&S ultra safeguard V.2
High flow Walbro fuel pump
AEM FPR 1:1
High flowing fuel rail
Colder NGK spark plugs from JR
Retard timing
But I also was running 10lbs of boost. Which the JR doesn't seem to like anything above 2lbs from it's original boost

Ritteri

10-14-2002, 11:20 AM

But I also was running 10lbs of boost. Which the JR doesn't seem to like anything above 2lbs from it's original boost SO what do you expect when your're running its product out of spec??

I have used 3 of their superchargers and have installed at least 3 dozen more on various cars without one single detonation or reliability problem.

If yours did let go they do have an excellent warrenty for their product.

But when your running more boost via an underpulley kit or other means you're just asking for problems. Since you did admit to boosting to 10psi then I can garentee that your car still was running too lean even with the mods to correct for it.

It all comes down to this: USER ERROR

02SilverSiHB

10-14-2002, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Ritteri
SO what do you expect when your're running its product out of spec??

I have used 3 of their superchargers and have installed at least 3 dozen more on various cars without one single detonation or reliability problem.

If yours did let go they do have an excellent warrenty for their product.

But when your running more boost via an underpulley kit or other means you're just asking for problems. Since you did admit to boosting to 10psi then I can garentee that your car still was running too lean even with the mods to correct for it.

It all comes down to this: USER ERROR
true true. That's basically my point. It was 50% my fault and 50% the mechanics. He did a terrible install. If people want to be able to up the boost, I wouldn't suggest going with JR. I'm one of those very few who have had problems. If I ever get another one of their kits. I'm keeping it at stock boost and installing it myself. I don't trust any of these mechanics. So yeah, I shouldn't act like the JRSC is shit, just because I had problems. It's basically an old rant that still goes on inside me :( I even blew the motor. Damn it sucked.

Ritteri

10-14-2002, 01:25 PM

The JRSC isnt meant to be "overboosted". Well actually you can using an underpully kit provided by them for about a 15 percent increase in power but thats it. If people are looking for more extreme boosting applications then even I will say to go with a Turbo kit. But for quick reliable bolt on power that doesnt require an IC, or cool down and has no lag whatsoever the JSRC is such a great kit. Its not meant to be an extremist kit. BUt to add reliable torque and hp over factory specs. But why waste money on an I/H/E for such small hp and torque gains when for just a bit more money you can get a great SC add on!

But yeah for folks looking for rediculous gains then a Turbokit is the way to go, but then of course you're going to pay 3 times as much in the long run as a SC kit too. It all depends on what you want. I just wanted to mention to folks that the JRSC kit is gonna be available soon. Nothing like surprising a WRX or 1.8T VW owner! :D

02SilverSiHB

10-14-2002, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Ritteri
The JRSC isnt meant to be "overboosted". Well actually you can using an underpully kit provided by them for about a 15 percent increase in power but thats it. If people are looking for more extreme boosting applications then even I will say to go with a Turbo kit. But for quick reliable bolt on power that doesnt require an IC, or cool down and has no lag whatsoever the JSRC is such a great kit. Its not meant to be an extremist kit. BUt to add reliable torque and hp over factory specs. But why waste money on an I/H/E for such small hp and torque gains when for just a bit more money you can get a great SC add on!

But yeah for folks looking for rediculous gains then a Turbokit is the way to go, but then of course you're going to pay 3 times as much in the long run as a SC kit too. It all depends on what you want. I just wanted to mention to folks that the JRSC kit is gonna be available soon. Nothing like surprising a WRX or 1.8T VW owner! :D
you can also up the boost with a nose pulley. That's how I did mine. Yeah, the money you spend for JR and all the necessary fuel upgrades, you could get a turbo. It really comes down to what the person is expecting. I just want a low 14 second car that is consistantly hitting low 14's

Az02Si

10-14-2002, 05:49 PM

I had the crankpulley boost upgrade,the stupid JR FMU,Walbro pump and stock injectors....and NEVER detonated!My car LOVED running more than 6psi.......Never had one issue...

02SilverSiHB

10-14-2002, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Az02Si
I had the crankpulley boost upgrade,the stupid JR FMU,Walbro pump and stock injectors....and NEVER detonated!My car LOVED running more than 6psi.......Never had one issue...
yeah, I think the B16's favor boost more than the wimpy ass d16's

IceD out N CALI

10-14-2002, 09:39 PM

anyone have any idea on the price?

Ritteri

10-14-2002, 10:38 PM

About 3 grand.

02SilverSiHB

10-15-2002, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by Ritteri
About 3 grand.
I bet it doesn't even come with everything you will need :D

Gibhunter

10-15-2002, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Ritteri
About 3 grand.

Damn, that would be so inexpensive that I'd bet allot of people would go out and buy it instead of turbo or other mods. Problem is that at the stock level of 6psi it probably won't be any stronger than a Type-S motor stock. That's because of the parasitic loss the SC puts on the engine. A turbo at psi will give you more power because it doesn't put any extra load on the engine. Also a fast spooling turbo like the T25 will have almost no noticeable lag. Best of both worlds really. Problem is that turbo+install is more expensive than a SC that can be installed with a friend over the weekend. I mean all you do (for 6psi) is unscrew the intake manifold, put SC between it and the engine (how the hell will it fit?), change your plugs to a set of colder ones, put on the new belt and off you go. No? Or is there something that I'm missing?

02SilverSiHB

10-15-2002, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Gibhunter

Damn, that would be so inexpensive that I'd bet allot of people would go out and buy it instead of turbo or other mods. Problem is that at the stock level of 6psi it probably won't be any stronger than a Type-S motor stock. That's because of the parasitic loss the SC puts on the engine. A turbo at psi will give you more power because it doesn't put any extra load on the engine. Also a fast spooling turbo like the T25 will have almost no noticeable lag. Best of both worlds really. Problem is that turbo+install is more expensive than a SC that can be installed with a friend over the weekend. I mean all you do (for 6psi) is unscrew the intake manifold, put SC between it and the engine (how the hell will it fit?), change your plugs to a set of colder ones, put on the new belt and off you go. No? Or is there something that I'm missing?
yeah, it's relatively easy. On my previous car, you just swap out your intake manifold for the JR one. You have some extra things that reroute the throttle cable to a new position because of the goose neck. Then you have your basic fuel lines, coolant lines, etc. Then I had a relay to full the ecu into thinking the temp was 1 degree for a more rich mixture to prevent detonation. But 3 grand for the kit most likely won't include everything you need to run safely, imo

Az02Si

10-15-2002, 10:21 AM

since the 99-00 kit jumped from 2800 to 3400,i bet the 02 kit is at LEAST 3400.......And then add a few hundred more for the crap itll take to get the car running right.....Youll be looking at about 4Gs to get the thing on the car and running right,mark my words.

Whooopasss

10-15-2002, 10:34 AM

at 3K thats not bad.. I was about to build a custom turbo kit, but I'll wait and see what jackson has to offer (and also the HKS kit).. if it has the same HP as the type S, I bet the torque would be a lot more than the type S..

I'd Hit it!!

PoRT

10-15-2002, 10:51 AM

explain why a turbo will be 3 times more expensive. i havnt had any experience with a turbo, i allways ran nitrous. thats why i wm definatly getting a turbo on this EP. but tell me some basic things that i should know about. i mean, i know the basics on a turbo, how the work and suck, but not the little details.

Whooopasss

10-15-2002, 11:10 AM

I belive, the things you will need for a SC would be a J&S Safeguard V2 (4 channel) and Zip's SMC unit with bigger injector to do away with the fuel return line.. Zip is gifted!!!!

read here

http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB12&Number=1321919&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB12&Number=1363945&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

http://a6.cpimg.com/image/40/A7/12996416-3199-014000F0-.jpg

Az02Si

10-15-2002, 11:26 AM

NONE of that is NEEDED but it dosent hurt.......

Ritteri

10-15-2002, 05:35 PM

Az02Si: All Jackson kits come complete, and all Jackson kits run flawlessly. Anyone who says differently never owned one, or didnt do a proper install within the designed units specs: READ USER ERROR. The kit will be around $3000-$3500 realistically. Turbo kits are always known to be much more expensive. Basic kits normally cost about $3500 for turbo, up pipe downpipe,exhaust manifold and misc hardware. But realistically run closer to about $9000-$10,000 when you add the fact to have to buy an IC, upgraded pump, lines,rails and injectors and possible internal mods to the engine to be able to get 15+ pounds of boost from a turbo. If your only going to run 5-6 pounds of boost then a turbo ends up being a waste to begin with anyway. This is where and why a SC makes much more sense. I ve installed too many turbos and SCs over the years to know the honest costs involved in going each route. I preferrable like the SC because of the power/cost/reliability ratio. But to get a substantial amount more hp and torque you need to spend ALOT more money on a turbo setup, diminishing returns from my perspecitive.

gpt

10-15-2002, 07:32 PM

OK a question for you all.... What bolt ons can you add now and still keep after a JRSC install. I would think you should be able to keep your header, cat back, but will you be able to keep an aftermarket intake. Sorry if this is a newbie question but I am not that mechanically inclined and don't want to buy things now that I have to throw out if I get a JRSC. I would rather just save the money for the JRSC.

Ritteri

10-15-2002, 07:47 PM

The header and exhaust you can keep, the intake from all my past installs will have to go in favor of the stock or JR unit. The intake really doesnt matter anymore either since the SC takes over charging duties. So plan on selling the Intake. Though since I havent even seen the new SC coming out for the K20 series engine I could be wrong too. I think the best person to answer that question would be tech over at JR.

02SilverSiHB

10-15-2002, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Ritteri
The header and exhaust you can keep, the intake from all my past installs will have to go in favor of the stock or JR unit. The intake really doesnt matter anymore either since the SC takes over charging duties. So plan on selling the Intake. Though since I havent even seen the new SC coming out for the K20 series engine I could be wrong too. I think the best person to answer that question would be tech over at JR.
yeah, any intake you have right now, will most likely have to be modified. I had to modify my CAI from AEM to fit my JRSC on the 1997 Civic EX

Az02Si

10-15-2002, 08:21 PM

Complete for SOME PEOPLE,not ME.I OWNED a JRSC kit on my last car and it was FLAWLESS.Buuuuttttttt it DOSENT come with a fuel pump,OR injectors(as im sure you know the FP can be VERY high with this kit using the POS FMU and stock injectors).Like i said to another person in this thread....No aftermarket parts are NEEDED,but they dont hurt at all.I enjoyed 60K worth of boost out of my old 00,and i think i do know a lil bit about the JRSC and what it wants to operate at FULL potential.Never had one problem either except the alternator crapping out, im SURE that was caused by the overdrive crankpulley,but that was simple to fix crap.No biggie IMHO.Ill buy the kit for the 02,and ill install it myself,but i still think that kits going to cost 3400ish,and YES buy the time you factor in gauges and a CLUTCH youll be at damn near 4K.Thats the facts.Im sure you CAN use the stock clutch but i promise itll shit out sooner or later.so clutch=300 gauges=100,and then install prices for the guys who dont want to tackle the job themselves....Look at it that way.......

IceD out N CALI

10-15-2002, 09:20 PM

what kind of 1/4 mile times we can expect with that kit?

Az02Si

10-15-2002, 09:48 PM

low 14s,high 13s?(street tires) Hard to tell,but i know itll have a FAT Tq curve.....IMHO this car is begging for a blower.Id almost expect to see 200-205whp and 160lbs/ft with low boost.Should be GREAT.

3rdhatch

10-15-2002, 11:11 PM

Have any of you driven/owned a JR supercharged car? Me, yes I have driven 3 different JR supercharged cars (2 integra GSR and 99 si). The main problem I have with these SCs is they deliver too much torque when you don't really need it. Without slicks the only thing these are good for is roasting tires. The first car I drove was a GSR with an upgraded proffesionally installed boost kit at 10 psi. It ran a 12.89......at a 103 mph. My buddies turboed GSR motor ran a 12.88 @ 114mph. Why would you want to go fast and stay in the same place because the tires were spinning. Superchargers are meant for low end torque while that helps us out off the line we need top end for those higher rpms. And right now I don't have a problem with low end speed/torque. I am not saying that superchargers are bad or not to get one but I'll save up and get the turbo kit. Then when you pull on me at the line I'll eat you up at the end of the track.

Gibhunter

10-16-2002, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by Az02Si
No biggie IMHO.Ill buy the kit for the 02,and ill install it myself,but i still think that kits going to cost 3400ish,and YES buy the time you factor in gauges and a CLUTCH youll be at damn near 4K.
Don't you think that our clutch may be the same as in the Type-S? Wouldn't it then be rated to withstand more power than our engines make anyways?

Ps. Time to start playing the lottery:)

Ritteri

10-16-2002, 07:15 AM

Complete for SOME PEOPLE,not ME.I OWNED a JRSC kit on my last car and it was FLAWLESS.Buuuuttttttt it DOSENT come with a fuel pump,OR injectors

First off with the stock kit, a larger fuel pump or injectors is not necessary at all. Nor is an aftermarket clutch, or guages. Will these upgrades help potentially? Yes possibly, just like with ANY performance mod. But you seem to be missing the whole point here once again.

As for the stock clutch, Im sure it will be just fine unless its already worn considerably.

As for the SC's hp and torque delivery, its very well matched to the vehicle. And considering our cars are naturally weak in low end torque, its a perfect match. But anyone who states that SC's give no top end boost either doesnt have much experience with them. They give just as much top end(horsepower)as they do in bottem end torque.

Az02Si

10-16-2002, 08:26 AM

here we go again....I said its not complete for MEEEEEe.I ran a stock clutch in my last car for 1K before it blew up from the added power.Trust me i know about the stupid blower,im just pointing some things out too.I KNOW the kit was designed for a stock car.........But HOW MANY of us will throw it on a stock car without the supporting mods?Dont tell me i missed the point again,because i really just added onto yours.And SORRY,but anyone who uses a stock fuel pump for extended peroids of times is an IDIOT....Its better to pay the extra $100 and get a damn Walbro.Am i the only one in this thread looking at it from a saftey/ maximum performance standpoint???????...... Brett<---------------who was boosted,ran deep 13s and tuned his OWN car and learned what the JRSC really wants in the longrun to make power RELIABLY.

yomamaInMySi

10-16-2002, 09:29 AM

I was looking at a the engine bay on my EP3, and I was trying to picture how in the world JR will fit a blower in there. I'm not by any means an engineer, but any one can look at the bay and have a hard time picturing a blower on that little of a space. Not to mentioned the hood, and how it doesn't have a cowl any more like the old civics did. Any suggestions any one.

IceD out N CALI

10-16-2002, 10:19 AM

if it can get us into the high 13's or better it would make our ep3 competitive

02SilverSiHB

10-16-2002, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by 3rdhatch
Have any of you driven/owned a JR supercharged car?
yeap, I have

02SilverSiHB

10-16-2002, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by IceD out N CALI
if it can get us into the high 13's or better it would make our ep3 competitive
I went from a 16.3 to a 14.5 with my JRSC EX. That's about 2 seconds off. So I don't see why not. But that would depend on the driver. So for me hitting a 16.2 right now, I'd get a 14.2-14.5. But that one guy rice rocket will get a 12.8 :D