touge setup

[jdmk20a13]

Yo watup jdm freaks, I was just watching touge showdown on BMI and they were talkin about a great street setup. wats a great setup for our ep3. About setup I mean everything you can think of to make a well balanced street version EP3 for the touge.

[the JigGa mAn]

what the fuck is a touge?

[oldschoolimport]

Originally posted by the JigGa mAn
what the fuck is a touge? I think it is mountain road racing, similar to drifting. do I win something?:D

[the JigGa mAn]

Originally posted by oldschoolimport
I think it is mountain road racing, similar to drifting. do I win something?:D

ic..so can you touge at mt. rushmore? :p

[oldschoolimport]

Originally posted by the JigGa mAn
ic..so can you touge at mt. rushmore? :p if your si is all-wheel-drive and has suction cups on the tires?

[team ERA 5]

touge is basically the stuff u see on the best motoring videos (the spoon ep3r was in one of those touge runs)...2 cars that basically canyon carve...dont know any good setups all i say is a lot of torque hahaha not really into that stuff and dont know much about...but they are fun to watch! i like going in a straight line...good luck with your setup! falken azenis is probably the best tires for that, im assuming since all the canyon people on this board have those or the yoko es100s

[the JigGa mAn]

Originally posted by oldschoolimport
if your si is all-wheel-drive and has suction cups on the tires?

lucky for me it is!!:D

[Kobayashi]

Originally posted by team ERA 5
touge is basically the stuff u see on the best motoring videos (the spoon ep3r was in one of those touge runs)...2 cars that basically canyon carve...dont know any good setups all i say is a lot of torque hahaha not really into that stuff and dont know much about...but they are fun to watch! i like going in a straight line...good luck with your setup! falken azenis is probably the best tires for that, im assuming since all the canyon people on this board have those or the yoko es100s

You don't need a lot of power and torque on the touge...

That's why the more powerful cars (NSX, GT-R, Supra, etc.,) stay on the highway and the lower power cars (Civic, Integra, MR-S, Trueno, etc.,) stay on the touge.

[Suk02Si]

Setup all depends on the road your driving on the most.

I run a dozen canyons around LA but my home track is Little Tujunga. My ideal setup would be:

Mugen 25mm(solid) rear sway
RSX S 23mm(hollow) front sway or stock 25mm(hollow) fr
450lbs spring up front
600lbs springs in the rear
Falken Azenis(205/50/15) or Toyo RA1's(225/50/15)
20-30mm offset wheels(might need wheel spacers unless I can get a hold of some old BMW wheels)
-1 deg camber up front w/ 0 toe, -.5 camber in the rear with 1deg toe in

I'm going to pick up a progress front sway(27mm) for other roads like Piuma, Latigo, etc..

For los flores, a friend of mine runs 600lbs spings fr and rear, 205/50/15 azenis w/ 20mm offset wheels up front, 195/60/14 azenies w/ 30mm offset rear, s/t sways and konis at full stiffness. This is all on a GSR and he's pretty quick out there. :D

[rs_1101]

togue is basically canyon/mountain racing.. you dont have to drift.. lol

umm if i had an ep.. the first thing id do was lighten that damn car.. next thing is.. yea mugen definitly. would need at least a rear rsx bar to compete with understeer, motor wouldnt need much work, just some i/h/e, the #1 thing id do is reduce weight.. remove sunroof.. etc. its pretty similar to autox in the way your car needs to be set up.. only diff is you need to retain suspension travel for grip.

[Lil Black_Hatch]

touge simply means mountain pass. It's not a type of driving or anything like that, just a japanese word that is joining american slang...

[BlasTech]

Those BMI guys close the roads the race on, and they are professional road and drift racers.


Why I dont do togue:

1.) the embankments will make it hard to predict your threshold and oversteering recovery...its scary enough when you lose control on the flat.

2.) unlike a road course, when you go off the togue track, its much easier to total your car or die. Road courses have lots of flat space, soft walls, and emergency crews.

3.) oncoming drivers... you gotta respect other people's property, lives, and their babies too.


Whatever you do, dont be naive about how serious the consequences are, or how well you can drive.

[rs_1101]

theres been alot of articles in the paper recently about crazy drifters coming around corners sideways, driving motorists off the road. togue is a dangerous thing. i believe gary has a pretty good operation going, but cops are cracking down on any import or compact car doing mountain driving. They know how many tow trucks go out there to fish someones 240sx out of a ditch.
If you do get into togue, id suggest having a 2 way radio or something and a spotter to watch for oncoming traffic on your course. that would be the safest way to go about it. any canyon driver can tell you the importance of not pushing your cars limits.

[tony speed]

yea...if you touge, i'd suggest not coming anywhere near the limits of your tires. i've done a 4-wheel drift around a hairpin in a front-wheel drive car, and it is not fun. My friend totalled his integra on that same corner 2 minutes before I made that corner.

[BlasTech]

read back on all the EP's that have been totalled, it seems the vast majority of them died in hilly twisties.

[rs_1101]

i survived the twistes, only to be t boned by a mexican in a corolla.

[Suk02Si]

I also survived the twisties only to be side swiped by a kid in a salvaged beater.

[Burgh]

Ok, I tried resisting the urge to post in this topic but I have to - guys, it's only a matter of time before you kill SOMEONE ELSE while 'carving' a mountain. It's one thing to kill yourself doing stupid shit but when you do it on public roads you risk the lives of those who really didn't ask to be involved in your nonsense.

For all you guys who want to be drifters, there are sanctioned drift series cropping up all over the US. For all you guys who want to drive curves fast, take it to the track!

Respect others, respect yourself, and respect your car.

[tony speed]

Originally posted by Burgh
Ok, I tried resisting the urge to post in this topic but I have to - guys, it's only a matter of time before you kill SOMEONE ELSE while 'carving' a mountain. It's one thing to kill yourself doing stupid shit but when you do it on public roads you risk the lives of those who really didn't ask to be involved in your nonsense.

For all you guys who want to be drifters, there are sanctioned drift series cropping up all over the US. For all you guys who want to drive curves fast, take it to the track!

Respect others, respect yourself, and respect your car.


it's so funny how grassroots motor sports are though. They originate from illegal origin (there would be no drifting as a sport without touge), and then when they get big enough, doing the road racing they originated from is illegal. With fame comes responsibility i guess.

[Kobayashi]

A respected touge driver will only go out very late at night or very early in the morning to avoid any contact with other cars.

No, I'm not saying this from reading Initial D.

[rs_1101]

i agree somewhat with both of you. i posted earlier in this thread about my thoughts on illegal whatever your doing in your car. i like your point about grassroots sports! however i dont think you could consider drifting the same as a sport such as time attack. drifting evolved as a show of skill, like ice dancing as opposed to speed skating.
i believe that until the government closes hillside roads to allow night racers free roaming, that people will continue to break the law. just about anything you do these days breaks the law.. driving too fast, not driving fast enough.. lights are too bright.. lights are too dim.. no biggie. however, experienced street drivers should know how do race or whatever with minimal risk to passerbyes. thats why they go out at night, know the course, and hopefully have someone on 2-way to update the track situation for oncoming traffic in mountain racing cases.
and i wanted to say: gary be careful about mentioning the TJ name.. you never know when law enforcement is going to surf onto ephatch.

[tony speed]

Originally posted by rs_1101
however i dont think you could consider drifting the same as a sport such as time attack. drifting evolved as a show of skill, like ice dancing as opposed to speed skating.

This statement is kinda wrong. Drifting came into being because the touge kids were imitating what the rally racers were doing to go around turns quickly. If you watch rallys you will notice that they drift around certain turns so that they cna plow into the strait-away at the end of a turn. keichi actually used his drifting teching in the JGTC and won using it...Pro drifting is completely about style, real drifting is about speed.

[mental]

i am an avid driver and like to think of myslef as decent... and i recomend to anyone who likes driving to hit the "twisties" and have some fun... but see the problem with people wrecking thier cars comes from inexpierence... i am 19 and drving since i was 14... i have currently been running tight twisted roads since i was 16... i am not a perfect driver but i know when to push it and when to not push it... so to answer your question yes our cars can be made into decent down hillers... i say down hill cuz thats what i prefer to run on the roads we run... however i would highly suggest to anyone who is new to the whole twisty road thing that they read up on cornering techniques and a find out about brake fade, and heel toe, and matching revs, and run only up hill... braking too late on a down hill and trying to steer can cuase a spin or major over steer and put you off the road much easier than if you were going up hill... i am not saying it doesnt happen up hill its just up hill youre working against gravity so even letting off the throttle will help slow things down a bit... if you would like anymore advice feel free to PM me... ohh and one more thing i am running stock suspension and falken tires with custom front and rear upper strut bars and i just recently hung with a FD3S on the down hill... heres the road going from east to west its all down hill and where that U turn is is a vey tight corkscrew its insane it goes down hill and turns....http://www.mapquest.com/maps/refreshmap.adp?pan=e&rand=8897

[rs_1101]

most people favor downhill b/c its like a car handicap.. it kills horsepower advantages.. and i dont think we have to worry about too many civics suffering from snap oversteer and landing in ditches.. most of the wrecks ive seen are from rhys milles wannabes... lotta hachis gettin killed out there tho...

[Burgh]

Originally posted by tony speed
This statement is kinda wrong. Drifting came into being because the touge kids were imitating what the rally racers were doing to go around turns quickly. If you watch rallys you will notice that they drift around certain turns so that they cna plow into the strait-away at the end of a turn. keichi actually used his drifting teching in the JGTC and won using it...Pro drifting is completely about style, real drifting is about speed.

But drifting is the fast way around a rally course where you have NO grip whatsoever. So you have to apex early and let the rear end drift so you can get the car turned. On roads, where you have grip, drifting is purely for the show and is the slow way around a course.

[tony speed]

Originally posted by Burgh
But drifting is the fast way around a rally course where you have NO grip whatsoever. So you have to apex early and let the rear end drift so you can get the car turned. On roads, where you have grip, drifting is purely for the show and is the slow way around a course.

explain that to keichi who used drifting as a technique on the track and won doing it, in GT racing none-the-less. It's only slower for people who think it is appropriate in all situations and/or are novices.

secondly, you do realize that rally drivers also drive on tarmac. Rally driving is actually the closest thing you will find to touge.

this is where traditional racing theory departs from drifting, cause there are all these people out there who believe in grip driving etc etc, but drifting is such a specialized art that there are few people who know how to use it in a racing situation properly.

[Burgh]

Originally posted by tony speed
explain that to keichi who used drifting as a technique on the track and won doing it, in GT racing none-the-less. It's only slower for people who think it is appropriate in all situations and/or are novices.

secondly, you do realize that rally drivers also drive on tarmac. Rally driving is actually the closest thing you will find to touge.

this is where traditional racing theory departs from drifting, cause there are all these people out there who believe in grip driving etc etc, but drifting is such a specialized art that there are few people who know how to use it in a racing situation properly.

I don't know this JGTC race you're talking about, but I can guarantee you that having your ass end slide around a turn is the SLOW way around a course. Drifting around a turn like that on a road course will scrub off massive amounts of speed and leave you with very little exit speed out of the corner. Look at ANY form of road racing out there, it's just not done.

Before people misconstrue my opinions - I'm not saying anything against drifting or drifters at all. I'm not shocked that this Keichi guy won at JGTC because, IMO, you have to have incredible car control to be a good drifter. From what I hear there are tons of BestMotoring videos around with this Keichi guy driving in them. I'll try and find some to see whether he's actually drifting the car through tight corners all the time.

[tony speed]

Originally posted by Burgh
I'll try and find some to see whether he's actually drifting the car through tight corners all the time.

I doubt he does it all the time....

[Donegan]

Originally posted by tony speed
explain that to keichi who used drifting as a technique on the track and won doing it, in GT racing none-the-less. It's only slower for people who think it is appropriate in all situations and/or are novices.

secondly, you do realize that rally drivers also drive on tarmac. Rally driving is actually the closest thing you will find to touge.

this is where traditional racing theory departs from drifting, cause there are all these people out there who believe in grip driving etc etc, but drifting is such a specialized art that there are few people who know how to use it in a racing situation properly.

No disrespect...

But don't get ahead of yourself.

Tsuchiya did not use drifts to win his JGTC races. He occasionally drifts around the corners after he's won the race, but I can guarentee you that he doesn't drift during the races to win.

However, Tsuchiya sometimes does drift during the races in Best Motoring but only to taunt the other drivers or to see how well the factory and tuned cars drift.

I have actually met him a couple of times at Twin Ring Motegi and seen him live in the ARTA NSX. Not once did he execute drifts during the races to achieve his top spot.

I'm sure you're a drift fan but don't misguide others with false information. It might fools others but it sure doesn't fool those who know.

Whether you acknowledge it or not is your own problem.


Originally posted by tony speed


I don't know this JGTC race you're talking about, but I can guarantee you that having your ass end slide around a turn is the SLOW way around a course. Drifting around a turn like that on a road course will scrub off massive amounts of speed and leave you with very little exit speed out of the corner. Look at ANY form of road racing out there, it's just not done.

Before people misconstrue my opinions - I'm not saying anything against drifting or drifters at all. I'm not shocked that this Keichi guy won at JGTC because, IMO, you have to have incredible car control to be a good drifter. From what I hear there are tons of BestMotoring videos around with this Keichi guy driving in them. I'll try and find some to see whether he's actually drifting the car through tight corners all the time.

www.jgtc.net

You are right about drifts eating up time.

[rs_1101]

very very true. i dont think i could have put it better myself.
the point of a drift is to scrub massive speed off before a corner, and to allow the car proper exit angle. very useful in rally with uneven terrain. where grip isnt an issue.

[tony speed]

"That's how Keiichi earned the name of the Drift King. He was competing in the Fuji Freshmen Racing series and would use his cornering style to win races (6 in a row). "

In any case, he at least used to use his drift style in competition.

Point 2 - Stepping on the brakes scrubs off speed too....braking is fundemental to taking corners. A peroperly executed drift can be just as fast in a slow corner.

BTW - the thing about him using it to win JGTC races was i guess "false" info passed on to me by someone else