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SF-SI-02
06-29-2004, 05:33 PM
What is the difference both in form and performance between the neuspeed x-brace and the d3 brace? Has anyone driven both... any comments?

thanks

trabadoo22
06-29-2004, 07:20 PM
I don't have either of these, but most people would say the D3 x-brace is better because you basically get twice the coverage area. - It's a double x-brace compared to the Neuspeed, which is only one. The D3 one is like this XX, and the Neuspeed is like this X. The only thing I would be worried about is fitment and ground clearance between the two. Those two factors being the same I would deffinitly go with the D3 brace.

@doval
06-29-2004, 07:41 PM
The only thing I would be worried about is fitment and ground clearance between the two

Thats my worry b\c where i live there is a lot of speed bumps...also i hear tanabe-suspec have one lower brace but not in X form :cool:

Scatman
06-29-2004, 07:43 PM
i bought the neuspeed one (just cause i love neuspeed), im putting it in soon, ill let you guys know what i think once i test drive it

@doval
06-29-2004, 07:46 PM
hey scatman where do u get it and how much bro :rolleyes:

Scatman
06-29-2004, 07:49 PM
i got mine from racingworks.com for 141.97 plus shipping....i think robearracing.com might have it for a little bit cheaper (135 plus shipping if i remember, i could be wrong)...i cant wait to put it in :)

raiyo
06-29-2004, 07:56 PM
Double X-Brace has double the coverage over Neuspeed. It will NEVER rust, but Neuspeed will. So far I've seen 2 Neuspeed X-Brace BADLY rusted. I don't give a dan about its powercoated and it will last, it's bull. Rocks can clip it, then it'll start to rust. Double X-Brace comes with a lifetime warranty if the bar bents, brake, or d3Design makes a better design, they'll give u a new one, no strings attached. I think you gotta send the old one back in. When installing the Double X-Brace, it wasn't plug and play. The bar had to be forced in, that's a good thing not bad. The bar is stressed on at all points, making it more stable. Through oil change, the Double X-Brace gives u alittle more clearance to do your oil change, unlike Neuspeed, you're lefted with only alittle. The Double X-Brace have issues with clearance, but once you have it on and have a feel. You'll know it is worth the sacifiace. The X-Brace cost maybe.....60 bucks more than the Neuspeed, but gives you double the coverage, more bang for your buck.

Search Double X-Brace to get more idea how members like there brace. The bar took me and my friend 30 minutes to install. It was done in his body shop, with lifts and all. Usually it'll take you 1-4 hours if you're gonna do it yourself or with floor jacks.

So Double X-Brace or Neuspeed X-Brace? You decide.

SF-SI-02
06-29-2004, 09:41 PM
No raiyo you decided for me :winkm: thanks!

FCobra94
06-30-2004, 09:07 AM
I'd definitly get the double x-brace! I absolutely LOVE mine! :tongue:

oogy-boogy
06-30-2004, 09:19 AM
I'd definitly get the double x-brace! I absolutely LOVE mine! :tongue:
Yeah, exactly...

For the extra $$ and additional mounting points it's a no brainer.

Double X brace + EP = Street legal go cart IMO :)

03silverEP
06-30-2004, 09:44 AM
neuspeed,

Deluxe
06-30-2004, 11:05 AM
I personally have the D3 installed and let me say it is amazing!! Quality and fittment are superb..Anyone who actually sees a D3 brace up close will soon realize how much thought and engineering went into the design..Overall I give it an A

Mighty_Mouse
06-30-2004, 07:11 PM
Too bad the D3 brace kills your ground clearance. Don't even think about lowering your car with the D3 unless you like hitting every speed bump and driveway entrance.

Too bad D3 doesn't remake them with oval piping (like the Neuspeed) and get some of that lost ground clearance back because it's a nice brace otherwise.

BlackSi613nin
06-30-2004, 11:53 PM
Too bad the D3 brace kills your ground clearance. Don't even think about lowering your car with the D3 unless you like hitting every speed bump and driveway entrance.

Too bad D3 doesn't remake them with oval piping (like the Neuspeed) and get some of that lost ground clearance back because it's a nice brace otherwise.

this is my concern, i want/like XX brace... but my car lowered...and chicago's shitty/lumpy/ and speed "hump" infested roads would kill this bar... :( and comin out my garage would suck.. im only on progress springs, and i scrape (just barely, but still makes me cringe) my hks every day backin up outta there :'( :'(

chubbychu
07-01-2004, 12:20 AM
hmm....man...thats a pretty big trade off...looks or performance...either lowered or scraping all the time...

oogy-boogy
07-01-2004, 05:30 AM
Honestly, the scraping isn't a big a deal as some state. My driveway couldn't be any steeper and I never rub going up it at ~1.5 - 1.75" drop.

If I slowly go over speed bumps I have no rubbing.

@doval
07-01-2004, 03:39 PM
Anybody heard about tanabe-suspec brace??? it is good??

raiyo
07-01-2004, 04:08 PM
Anybody heard about tanabe-suspec brace??? it is good??

go check out clubrsx.com, members over there got that going on there ride.

do a search on this site with "d3design" username. he explains why XX (double x-brace) are better than [][] (tanabe/CARBing) setups.

JDM_EpTypeR
07-02-2004, 06:49 PM
were can i buy the 3d brace from?? it sounds good. i have koni yellows, neuseed race springs, DC Ti front upper and neuspeed rear sway, the XX will be a nice addition

oogy-boogy
07-02-2004, 08:48 PM
were can i buy the 3d brace from?? it sounds good. i have koni yellows, neuseed race springs, DC Ti front upper and neuspeed rear sway, the XX will be a nice addition

D3 Designs sells the Double X-Brace.

JDM_EpTypeR
07-03-2004, 12:28 PM
do you guys have a web site cuz i never herd of that company

raiyo
07-03-2004, 12:41 PM
do you guys have a web site cuz i never herd of that company

http://www.dthreedesigns.com/

I never heard of the company before hand either. But they have been a sponser for a the Polk EP3 you might have seen in the Super Street mag

anywayz, they got good product

MCeez02Si
07-04-2004, 12:03 PM
I have the Neuspeed X-brace and can say the improvement in handling will definitely be noticeable. I'm thinking of giving this one a shot over the D3:

https://passwordjdm.com/index.php?page=shop/flypage&product_id=306&category_id=carbing&ps_session=1dd7723048ce62f3f32ffb869f1c5509

Mighty_Mouse
07-04-2004, 12:49 PM
I have the Neuspeed X-brace and can say the improvement in handling will definitely be noticeable. I'm thinking of giving this one a shot over the D3:

https://passwordjdm.com/index.php?page=shop/flypage&product_id=306&category_id=carbing&ps_session=1dd7723048ce62f3f32ffb869f1c5509
Carbing makes some of the best braces on the planet. All of their stuff is top notch and fits perfectly. I wonder how much ground clearance you lose with that one.

MCeez02Si
07-05-2004, 07:56 AM
Carbing makes some of the best braces on the planet. All of their stuff is top notch and fits perfectly. I wonder how much ground clearance you lose with that one.

Good question. I've scraped the underside of the front mounting points a couple of times exiting out of parking lots downslope of the curb. I'm not dropped either. Oh yeah, also a couple of times going to forward and hitting those cement parking thingys. Freaks the sh*t out of me cuz it's a solid sound. Fyi...

Dr. Design
07-06-2004, 01:37 PM
Hello,
Yes. Carbing certainly makes a good product. However we did look at the design and it can certainly be better. Why? Well from a structural standpoint triangles are better then rectangles or parallelograms. If you notice the carbing brace uses no triangulation, thus allowing unwanted flex to a certain degree. We are not knocking the Carbing brace. We still feel that it is one of the best on the market. But we also did make sure that when designing our double x-brace we made sure it was the BEST on the market, bar none!

As far as fitment issues are concerned. We have addressed those with the latest stock of double x-braces so install will be reduced to 45 minutes for novice mechanics.

Clearance issues?? The D3 Double X-Brace is low. However we tried to place the lowest points between the front wheels. This way the lowest point is always on its way up with the rest of the car. On the road race DC5 and EP3, those cars are lowered about 2.5 - 2.75 and have no problem scrapping. However those are both racecars and not street cars. Don

Mighty_Mouse
07-06-2004, 03:08 PM
Track tested = street approved.


Um, no. Just because it works on the track doesn't mean that it works on the street. Racing slicks work pretty well on the track as well, but you can't run them on the street.

Thank you for your response and no one disagrees that the D3 brace is very fuctional, but it also doesn't have a place on many street cars. Some of us have lowered our cars and live in areas with speed bumps and the like. The D3 brace scrapes a LOT over speed bumps, driveway entrances, car wash tracks, etc.

MCeez02Si
07-06-2004, 08:01 PM
[QUOTE=Dr. Design]Hello,
Yes. Carbing certainly makes a good product. However we did look at the design and it can certainly be better. Why? Well from a structural standpoint triangles are better then rectangles or parallelograms. If you notice the carbing brace uses no triangulation, thus allowing unwanted flex to a certain degree. We are not knocking the Carbing brace. We still feel that it is one of the best on the market. But we also did make sure that when designing our double x-brace we made sure it was the BEST on the market, bar none!

As far as fitment issues are concerned. We have addressed those with the latest stock of double x-braces so install will be reduced to 45 minutes for novice mechanics.

Clearance issues?? The D3 Double X-Brace is low. However we tried to place the lowest points between the front wheels. This way the lowest point is always on its way up with the rest of the car. On the road race DC5 and EP3, those cars are lowered about 2.5 - 2.75 and have no problem scrapping. However those are both racecars and not street cars. Don

Dr. Design
07-07-2004, 09:49 AM
Hello,
You seem to be on the right track. However there is more that goes into designing chassis components then just the shape. You must look at the material and the joints as well.

The Tanabe brace is a very good brace as well (from a design standpoint). But if you notice the D3 Double X-brace uses a total of 6 structural mounting points vs. 4 mounting points. Thus covering a larger span and providing more torsional stiffness over more area of the application. The D3 Double X-brace uses 4130 tubular chomolly. Why is that important? From a structural standpoint, using tubular construction is MUCH better then bar stock or rectangular aluminum. Aluminum and mild steel (not sure what the Tanabe unit is) both materials are fairly inexpensive compared to 304 stainless steel or 4130 chromolly. 4130 chromolly has the highest tensile strength when compared to the others. You can actually achieve more strength with a smaller outside diameter 4130 chromolly tube then you can with an aluminum tube 1/3 larger in diameter.

Just FYI, we have designed the D3 Double X-brace to be the best on the market bar none. We have looked into all other designs to insure ours would perform the best.

Please let us know if there are any other questions. We would be more then happy to try and answer them.

Thank you,






Thanks for the info. Doc D. :cool: I know jack about x-brace designs, but I did create a mental picture and imagined that if I had a metal object (capable of being bent by human hands) that it would be easier to screw up the rectangular shaped piece with opposing forces of each hand (bending 1 side up while the other down :confused: ) while the triangle being more difficult (rigidity strengthened due to the tight trianlgles as each point?)?

I have no idea what I just wrote. So...if triangles in an x-brace are key, wouldn't the Tanabe brace be king:

http://www.ptuning.com/html/Item-Desc.cfm?PartNo=PTTUB043F&MakeCode=honda&ModelCode=civic&ModelYear=2002%2D2004%20All%20Si%20HB&ModelDesc=Civic

...or, your design? And why?

Lestat537
07-07-2004, 10:07 AM
Hello,
You seem to be on the right track. However there is more that goes into designing chassis components then just the shape. You must look at the material and the joints as well.

The Tanabe brace is a very good brace as well (from a design standpoint). But if you notice the D3 Double X-brace uses a total of 6 structural mounting points vs. 4 mounting points. Thus covering a larger span and providing more torsional stiffness over more area of the application. The D3 Double X-brace uses 4130 tubular chomolly. Why is that important? From a structural standpoint, using tubular construction is MUCH better then bar stock or rectangular aluminum. Aluminum and mild steel (not sure what the Tanabe unit is) both materials are fairly inexpensive compared to 304 stainless steel or 4130 chromolly. 4130 chromolly has the highest tensile strength when compared to the others. You can actually achieve more strength with a smaller outside diameter 4130 chromolly tube then you can with an aluminum tube 1/3 larger in diameter.

Just FYI, we have designed the D3 Double X-brace to be the best on the market bar none. We have looked into all other designs to insure ours would perform the best.

Please let us know if there are any other questions. We would be more then happy to try and answer them.

Thank you,


Hey Dr. Design, you mentioned that the brace was addressed due to fitment issues? Can you go more into detail on this? I'm seriously looking into the D3 Double X Brace, and I wanted to make sure I won't be stuck under my car for hours on end trying to fit the brace in. I've got a lovely wife that can get pretty nasty if she sees a shiny new brace being installed on my car, while her car is left stock. (LOL) I have to make sure I can install it in 45 minutes with the front of the vehicle on two jack stands....before she gets home!

Dr. Design
07-08-2004, 12:16 PM
Hello,
Yes. The install process is much quicker with some of the changes we made. Although these changes will help the install process it has not hindered any performance.

If you purchase one for your wife we will give you a great deal! She will love it also! :D

Please let us know if there are any questions.
Thank you,



Hey Dr. Design, you mentioned that the brace was addressed due to fitment issues? Can you go more into detail on this? I'm seriously looking into the D3 Double X Brace, and I wanted to make sure I won't be stuck under my car for hours on end trying to fit the brace in. I've got a lovely wife that can get pretty nasty if she sees a shiny new brace being installed on my car, while her car is left stock. (LOL) I have to make sure I can install it in 45 minutes with the front of the vehicle on two jack stands....before she gets home!

@doval
07-08-2004, 05:40 PM
i buy D3 xx-brace to my whole fam....LOL i am sold already :)