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View Full Version : Front sway removal: further/ revised review



stepintoliquid
04-21-2008, 04:09 AM
well before the site crashed i made a little thread about how i removed my front sway bar, and that combined with my ctr rear sway made the car a blast to drive..... no understeer whatsoever.

however, upon further review, i will say that the front of the car now seems a little too floaty without it. your best best is to run the smallest front sway possible. that way the front of the car still stays tight, while still reducing its natural tendency to understeer into a ditch.

im sure this really isnt news to anyone lol, but just thought i would confirm that no front sway isnt the ideal solution.

mustclime
04-21-2008, 04:14 AM
2003 em2 bar ....15.9mm hollow does very well....but you should use stiffer springs imo.:mangel:

stepintoliquid
04-21-2008, 06:29 AM
2003 em2 bar ....15.9mm hollow does very well....but you should use stiffer springs imo.:mangel:

i have sportlines. stock shocks though....

mustclime
04-21-2008, 06:47 AM
i have sportlines. stock shocks though....

Sport lines are not very stiff imo. I think they claim 20% stiffer than stock with stock being 249lb(ish) in the front(both are progressive).....That puts you at around 300lbs(progressive). I recomend 400lb+ strait rates for small ft bars.

Way to many people imo use try to use swaybars(really anti-roll bars) to tune suspension. That would be ok if our suspension came well tuned from the factory for "sportie" driving. Sway bars should be used to fine tune suspension. Dampers and springs should be used to "tune" the sispension with the sways bring used to get the last amount out of the suspension......:mangel:

MugsyTheGr8
04-21-2008, 06:53 AM
Sport lines are not very stiff imo. I think they claim 20% stiffer than stock with stock being 249lb(ish) in the front(both are progressive).....That puts you at around 300lbs(progressive). I recomend 400lb+ strait rates for small ft bars.

Way to many people imo use try to use swaybars(really anti-roll bars) to tune suspension. That would be ok if our suspension came well tuned from the factory for "sportie" driving. Sway bars should be used to fine tune suspension. Dampers and springs should be used to "tune" the sispension with the sways bring used to get the last amount out of the suspension......:mangel:

i was always told the opposite, that springs should be used to control the cars dive/squat characteristics and that sway bars should be used to control a cars understeer/oversteer characteristics.

mustclime
04-21-2008, 07:09 AM
i was always told the opposite, that springs should be used to control the cars dive/squat characteristics and that sway bars should be used to control a cars understeer/oversteer characteristics.

It is really about keeping the tires "happy". Low grip tires need soft springs with stiffer sways. Super grippy(like r compound) tires need stiffer springs and bars to a point.

Something else to remember is a sway bar is in effect making your 4 wheel independant suspension less independant.


If you have really stiff springs( I mean really,really stiff), large swaybars are not needed as much because body side to side movement partly controled by the stiffer spring rates.

MugsyTheGr8
04-21-2008, 07:18 AM
It is really about keeping the tires "happy". Low grip tires need soft springs with stiffer sways. Super grippy(like r compound) tires need stiffer springs and bars to a point.

Something else to remember is a sway bar is in effect making your 4 wheel independant suspension less independant.


If you have really stiff springs( I mean really,really stiff), large swaybars are not needed as much because body side to side movement partly controled by the stiffer spring rates.

i see your point.

thechromecoyote
04-21-2008, 07:47 AM
is the Em2 JDM spec or could I get the 2003 civic front sway off any parts sites?

talonXracer
04-21-2008, 07:48 AM
You can get it from any Honda parts site, around 39$ or so....Dont forget the bushings as well.

MugsyTheGr8
04-21-2008, 09:27 AM
You can get it from any Honda parts site, around 39$ or so....Dont forget the bushings as well.

ive heard you can go to a honda dealership and get it for like 50 bucks with the bushings.

talonXracer
04-21-2008, 09:39 AM
ive heard you can go to a honda dealership and get it for like 50 bucks with the bushings.


45.55$ for everything from here. https://www.hondapartsdeals.com/honda_parts_list.php?hp_queried_components=0&hp_series_id=3287&hp_series_model=CIVIC&hp_series_year=2003&hp_series_door_ext_grade=2DR+EX&hp_series_transmission=5MT&hp_series_slsareacd=KA&hp_system=F&hp_component=B++27

MugsyTheGr8
04-21-2008, 09:50 AM
45.55$ for everything from here. https://www.hondapartsdeals.com/honda_parts_list.php?hp_queried_components=0&hp_series_id=3287&hp_series_model=CIVIC&hp_series_year=2003&hp_series_door_ext_grade=2DR+EX&hp_series_transmission=5MT&hp_series_slsareacd=KA&hp_system=F&hp_component=B++27

sweet, im gonna book mark that

adrian1281
04-21-2008, 09:55 AM
For someone with the Mugen SS and a CTR rear sway, is it worth going to the EM2 bar?

MugsyTheGr8
04-21-2008, 10:18 AM
its smaller in diameter so it will help your car rotate in slow speed corners.

03_CivicSi
04-21-2008, 01:32 PM
are h&r springs stiff enough?

nightbear
04-21-2008, 03:22 PM
wait so you striaght up just removed the whole entire sway bar ?

MugsyTheGr8
04-21-2008, 03:29 PM
are h&r springs stiff enough?

stiff enough for what? the em front sway bar is softer than stock.

stepintoliquid
04-21-2008, 06:59 PM
wait so you striaght up just removed the whole entire sway bar ?

yea, basically was too lazy to reinstall it when i yanked my broken motor....then was pleasantly surprised by the results.

Elise98
04-21-2008, 11:46 PM
I have little money to invest in my car so I spend it on track days. I simply undid one endlink on the front sway bar and used a zip tie to keep it up. With no front sway bar and the stock 15mm rear sway bar I got a little bit of throttle off oversteer. I drove like that for a long time and had no problem with it.

This explains the excessive body roll on my avatar.

chubbychu
04-22-2008, 12:17 AM
I took the front sway off too. at low speed, its seemingly okay, BUT with more indepth driving, the front does feel too light, airy, and floaty. I also almost spun out on an offramp. So, its not optimal. weird. I was hoping people could expound more on sway tech. :D

frankdogg
04-22-2008, 12:34 AM
its smaller in diameter so it will help your car rotate in slow speed corners.

what is considered "slow speed" corners?

Zzyzx
04-22-2008, 11:38 AM
i was always told the opposite, that springs should be used to control the cars dive/squat characteristics and that sway bars should be used to control a cars understeer/oversteer characteristics.

Its all a balancing act. Soft springs + soft anti-roll bar = Increased chassis roll = Greater distortion of the tires contact patch.

You have a couple of things that can diminish this. 1. being either increase spring rates or increase anti-roll bar rates. and 2 being increase your static negative camber.


Tuning theory dictates that you should be aiming to run the softest springs and the softest anti-roll bars you can get away with. And the reality of that is you should run the softest setup you can that will keep you off the bump stops when the car is under full cornering load. How stiff you need to do this will be heavily Dependant on your choice of tire, as well as your choice of ride height. For example, a person running all season tires will be able to run a substantially softer suspension then some one sporting "R" compounds. Just as someone at the stock ride height can afford to run a softer suspension then someone who lowered their car 3".

Basically, your suspension should be tuned to work best with what ever tire you happen to be running. If you tend to ride on all season tires, then you should be looking to run a relatively soft suspension. If you tend to run High grip summer tires then you should be looking to run a stiffer suspension. Just as you should adjust the suspension to compensate for ride height.

Camber.... Optimizing camber for what ever setup you end up with is all about making the tire lie flat on the asphalt when the suspension is completely loaded. So, how much or how little you need will be determined by how much the car is actually rolling. So, you could get away with a softer setup if you are willing to run more static negative camber. And even this has its pro's and cons. from allowing you to run a softer suspension (good) to reducing acceleration & braking traction with extreme amounts (Bad). So you'll have to balance out that as well.

nightbear
04-22-2008, 12:16 PM
thats pretty interesting, so u just leave the end links are just connected to nothing?

Elise98
04-22-2008, 01:27 PM
thats pretty interesting, so u just leave the end links are just connected to nothing?

yup, you only need to undo one side which makes it really easy to put it back.

MugsyTheGr8
04-22-2008, 02:22 PM
what is considered "slow speed" corners?

hairpins or tight corners where the average speed is slower.

03_CivicSi
04-22-2008, 04:28 PM
stiff enough for what? the em front sway bar is softer than stock.

Sport lines are not very stiff imo. I think they claim 20% stiffer than stock with stock being 249lb(ish) in the front(both are progressive).....That puts you at around 300lbs(progressive). I recomend 400lb+ strait rates ***for small ft bars***