Cheapest way to improve handling?

[kai-wun]

Progress Rear (Anti)Sway and Tie Bar ~185
Progress Sport Springs ~160
Adjustable Endlinks (Corsport?) ~55
Energy Suspension K20 Motor Mount Inserts ~32
Ingalls Front/Rear Camber Kit ~180

Stock Shocks, Stock Wheels

Sticky tires on wheels - Yokohama S.Drive 205/55/15 ?

[Elise98]

05-06 RSX type-s rear sway bar can be found for cheap and it's a 21mm. I got mine for $40 with the bushings. Keep an eye out for it at clubrsx.com.

[bildo]

i second the sway bar. Make sure to get it with the proper bushings.

[powdbyrice]

and a quality alignment.

use the specs that zzyxx posts up if he ever comes back.

[Emerica459]

more aggressive shocks, even with the stock springs you will notice a difference like night and day. But i guess cheapest would be the rear sway. It wont yield as great of a reward though.

[ep_hatcher_510]

Depends on what you are trying to do, but def. stickier tires will be one of the better improvements.

[thechromecoyote]

em2 front sway to go with that CTR or 05-06 RSX-S Sway will really bring your car into a neutral handling position.

[creamSODA]

ctr rear sway ~90$ and its the best 90$ ive spent on my EP

[thisisagame24]

ctr rear sway ~90$ and its the best 90$ ive spent on my EP

what he said


and im sure you can find stickier tires than those yoks

[kai-wun]

and a quality alignment.

use the specs that zzyxx posts up if he ever comes back.

yeah, that's the post i was lookin for.... haha!

stickier tires than yoks? i'm on a budget, i heard those are the best (in summer... wet and dry. but luckily i don't live in such a rainy climate)

[CivilEngSI]

Depends on what you are trying to do, but def. stickier tires will be one of the better improvements.

Bingo. What good is awesome suspension components going to do if you don't have the rubber to put the car to the ground.

[MugsyTheGr8]

i hear good things about the master bushing kit from energy suspension. its like $140 and it changes the way the car reacts to a corner through its suspension travel. there was a thread with alot of info in it before the forum got reset.

[mustclime]

tires first.

[04cvcsi]

yeah, def get better tires. the wall on the stock tires allow for too much body roll. my next recommendation would definitely be the 05-06 type-s rear sway

[SPAM&RICE]

You can always weld in a rollcage.:whistle:

[theyb]

06 rsx rear sway bar and bushing part numbers for one of the online sites:

5 52300-S6M-A61 SPRING, RR. STABILIZER 1 2006 RSX
6 52306-S6M-A62 BUSH, STABILIZER HOLDER


http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?catcgry1=RSX&catcgry2=2006&catcgry3=3DR+TYPE-S&catcgry4=KA6MT&catcgry5=REAR+LOWER+ARM&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=&prdrefno=145206&quantity=2&act=additem&hidSwitch=&hidIrno=&vinnoT=&trans=&trim=&view=normal&count=2

[powdbyrice]

get a used one off of clubrsx!

[Zzyzx]

Cheepest way to better handling? Learn to drive correctly.

other wise tires would be #2, then your alignment.

Seriously, if you guys are still sporting OEM alignments then changing that should be very high on your list of things to do. (given that most people arnt going to go run out and buy better tires...)

[Drew1d]

Steering vs Handling

If you want it to steer better, Larger rear sway. If you want it to handle better, better(or newer) tires.

[Drew1d]

Cheepest way to better handling? Learn to drive correctly.

other wise tires would be #2, then your alignment.

Seriously, if you guys are still sporting OEM alignments then changing that should be very high on your list of things to do. (given that most people arnt going to go run out and buy better tires...)

I agree and disagree about the alignment. I think a lot of the alignment settings would have to take into consideration the modifications of the vehicle, and the type of driving done.

I know you recommend to switch the camber settings in the front and back. And I do agree that kicks ass in AutoX, but doesn't that also compromise high speed stability and a straight line grip? (Acceleration and Braking)

And "Learn to drive correctly" ? Surely you can say the same thing without insulting the OP. :mangel:

[mustclime]

Any auto maker will tell you...If the car goes off the road nose first, its the drivers falt. If on the other hand the car goes off the road tail first, the car maker can be blamed. Adding some negative camber in the front does nothing but good to this car.

[Zzyzx]

I agree and disagree about the alignment. I think a lot of the alignment settings would have to take into consideration the modifications of the vehicle, and the type of driving done.

I know you recommend to switch the camber settings in the front and back. And I do agree that kicks ass in AutoX, but doesn't that also compromise high speed stability and a straight line grip? (Acceleration and Braking)

And "Learn to drive correctly" ? Surely you can say the same thing without insulting the OP. :mangel:


When I say "learn to drive correctly" I never mean it as an insult. As i too was once ignorant. I say it simply as a man that through personal experience as well as from talking to people who have far more knowledge of tuning & driving that I will probably ever have; that the driver, above all else is the single greatest influence on how well or how poorly a given car handles.

And given that, I always look at the driver 1st regarding virtually any handling problem.

as far as alignments, You'd have to run extreme amounts of negative camber to before you start significantly biting in to acceleration & braking traction. Now if you were building a car for drag racing, then yeah, you'd want to run as little negative camber as possible. And the alignments I've suggested in the past were tailored for street driving with an average if not stock street setup. Its basically the OEM alignment reversed, so as to create a more favorable setup for turning with minimal changed in tire wear. They are definitely not optimum for handling or tuned specifically for one setup, but rather just a shove in the right direction.

[Drew1d]

When I say "learn to drive correctly" I never mean it as an insult. As i too was once ignorant. I say it simply as a man that through personal experience as well as from talking to people who have far more knowledge of tuning & driving that I will probably ever have; that the driver, above all else is the single greatest influence on how well or how poorly a given car handles.
Spoken like a True Statesman. :msmile:

I can also see your point about alignments. And as I read the original post again, he's looking for handling not drag racing, so I guess there is a lot of room in there for different settings.

[kai-wun]

Cheepest way to better handling? Learn to drive correctly.

other wise tires would be #2, then your alignment.

Seriously, if you guys are still sporting OEM alignments then changing that should be very high on your list of things to do. (given that most people arnt going to go run out and buy better tires...)

YAY! You're here. Do you have that huge writeup on alignments saved somewhere? Somebody sticky it quick!

Obviously driver skill is first and foremost. But it's hard to talk skill here, so lets stick with talking equipment.

So to backtrack:

Tires are a given.

1. Yokohama S.Drive on stock wheels.
2. Progress Rear Sway/Tie Bar Set
3. Progress Sport Springs

And (more) aggressive alignment.

Will this suffice for now? Or do I anything to accompany these three? ESMM? Camber Kit? ES Master Bushing kit?

//edit: Does the Progress Sway/Tie set have a significant benefit over the RSX one?

[powdbyrice]

save your money and get the 05-06 type-s rear sway instead and spend the money you saved on a camber kit.

[ep_hatcher_510]

i hear good things about the master bushing kit from energy suspension. its like $140 and it changes the way the car reacts to a corner through its suspension travel. there was a thread with alot of info in it before the forum got reset.

Do you know how the ride quality would be after that ? i heard it was pretty rough.

[!@#$%]

weight reduction is always free and it helps more than handling.

[Zzyzx]

YAY! You're here. Do you have that huge writeup on alignments saved somewhere? Somebody sticky it quick!

Obviously driver skill is first and foremost. But it's hard to talk skill here, so lets stick with talking equipment.

So to backtrack:

Tires are a given.

1. Yokohama S.Drive on stock wheels.
2. Progress Rear Sway/Tie Bar Set
3. Progress Sport Springs

And (more) aggressive alignment.

Will this suffice for now? Or do I anything to accompany these three? ESMM? Camber Kit? ES Master Bushing kit?

//edit: Does the Progress Sway/Tie set have a significant benefit over the RSX one?

Lucky someone else already posted that thread, so no retyping for me!

1. Are those the tires you plan to get, or whats on the car now?

2. I'm a big fan of adjustable parts, and the basic Progress anti-roll bar isn't. That and the Tie bar is a bit frivolous on this chassis. It looks nice though. Progress does have a nice adjustable competition bar, you may want to look in to that. or the Hotchkis bar for the RSX.

3. Progress at least appears to have done their homework with this car. However if you are buying springs... you absolutely need good dampers. As the OEM dampers are barely able to deal with the OEM springs let alone a spring thats shorter & stiffer. Bilsteins would be a good choice here, Konis if you want a little knob to mess with.

You are most likely going to need a camber kit to get the alignment right, front and rear. ESMM will do essentially nothing for handling, though may help corner exit acceleration, as far as other bushings... the front compliance bushing on the LCA is your weakest point, and should be changed out. the bushings on the Rear LCA would come after that.

[kai-wun]

Lucky someone else already posted that thread, so no retyping for me!

1. Are those the tires you plan to get, or whats on the car now?

Snows on the car now, planning to get those cos that's what I hear is a good deal for the price. I'm up for any suggestions.


2. I'm a big fan of adjustable parts, and the basic Progress anti-roll bar isn't. That and the Tie bar is a bit frivolous on this chassis. It looks nice though. Progress does have a nice adjustable competition bar, you may want to look in to that. or the Hotchkis bar for the RSX.

Adjustable? Sorry for being daft, but I'm not sure when I'd adjust it. And I'd have to take it to a garage to do that, which seems annoying? I guess for track or for highway cruising? Or to fine tune it on a track?



3. Progress at least appears to have done their homework with this car. However if you are buying springs... you absolutely need good dampers. As the OEM dampers are barely able to deal with the OEM springs let alone a spring thats shorter & stiffer. Bilsteins would be a good choice here, Konis if you want a little knob to mess with.

Shocks is starting to make things costly. Might as well save for a set of coilovers instead? Ride height adjustable? Winter vs summer?


You are most likely going to need a camber kit to get the alignment right, front and rear. ESMM will do essentially nothing for handling, though may help corner exit acceleration, as far as other bushings... the front compliance bushing on the LCA is your weakest point, and should be changed out. the bushings on the Rear LCA would come after that.

Any recommendations on these bushings?

[kai-wun]

I just read more of your posts, Zzyzx.

Seems like Bilstein shocks and Progress Springs is a good combo. Where can I find Bilsetin shocks?

Sticky tires on the stock wheels (can I fit anything else on the stock wheels besides the 195/60/15? I saw somebody post about 205/55/15. I used the Miata calculator and got it up to 225/50/15 but I'm thinking the stock wheel isn't wide enough for that...)

1. Wheels
2. Bilstein Shocks
3. Progress Springs
4. RSX-S Rear Sway

//edit: Bilstein shocks are quite expensive, and hard to find... maybe koni yellows is a better idea? hm.

[Zzyzx]

Performance wise, Shocks (Dampers) are by far more important then springs. so to get the most out of the car a good set will be top priority. As far as the "coilover" vs springs + dampers.... I've never been a fan of prebuilt systems, and the damper quality of the inexpensive "coilovers" is questionable. So I'd say its better to pick up a set of Dampers from a company that specializes in designing and building dampers... rather then buying from a one stop shop. (Companys that seem to build and sell every part known to man for cars...) That way you'll more then likely end up with a damper that is consistant and predictable. and for the record... Bilsteins are near works of art, They use the same internals on their street dampers as they do on their race dampers....

Oh and as far as adjusting ride height for winter and summer... remember, every time you change the cars ride height you are going to have to get annother alignment.

For the adjustible anti-roll bar, It for the initial setup and tuning. Once you've got it set to where you like you'll probably not mess with it. But at least you have the option. with non-adjustibles... your stuck with what ever they give you. Is this important to you, maybe not. But having the option to tweak the cars oversteer/understeer more precicely is someting I like to have.

I know 0 about those tires, and from the discriptions on tire rack... they seem ok for a summer tire. Give'em a shot.

For bushings, Energy suspenison bushings front & rear would be fine. You could go with a spherical bushing for the front compliance... but for a street car you may not want the future headach spherical bushings can create over their life time. Typically they are reserved for track use, on cars that see regular maintinace of such parts.

[Zzyzx]

//edit: Bilstein shocks are quite expensive, and hard to find... maybe koni yellows is a better idea? hm.


Koni's are good, though they are more labor intensive to install. You could also get away with Tokico D-spec's. But I'd aim for the Bilstiens

[EPandaman29]

progress sway bar, full suspension, strut bars.

[p1nk50ck]

"cheapest" way to improve handling would be for you to lose weight, and to shave unnecessary weight off of the car: spare tire, floormats, seats, etc.

[kai-wun]

Koni's are good, though they are more labor intensive to install. You could also get away with Tokico D-spec's. But I'd aim for the Bilstiens

So would it be reasonable to say...

-Sticky tires
-Aggressive Alignment (camber kit)
-Type-S/CTR Rear Sway

And leave stock shocks/springs alone.. is better than all that with springs and stock dampers?

[Zzyzx]

So would it be reasonable to say...

-Sticky tires
-Aggressive Alignment (camber kit)
-Type-S/CTR Rear Sway

And leave stock shocks/springs alone.. is better than all that with springs and stock dampers?


If I were only allowed to change Springs OR dampers... I'd pick dampers, even with stock springs.

But leaving springs and dampers stock and tweaking the above should give decent results.

[ep3k20a2]

05-06 type-s rear sway really that good?

and the em2 front sway bar will help out with handling also?

[Zzyzx]

05-06 type-s rear sway really that good?

and the em2 front sway bar will help out with handling also?

its hard to quantify an anti-roll bar as being "good" or "bad", as anti-roll bar requirements are greatly influenced by spring choice and how you want the car to handle.


kai-wun; your tuning tree should look like this. From most important to least

1. Driver
2. Tires
3. Alignment
4. Dampers
5. Springs & anti-roll bars
6. Bushings & chassis braces.

Start at the top and work down.

[mustclime]

I just read more of your posts, Zzyzx.

Seems like Bilstein shocks and Progress Springs is a good combo. Where can I find Bilsetin shocks?

Sticky tires on the stock wheels (can I fit anything else on the stock wheels besides the 195/60/15? I saw somebody post about 205/55/15. I used the Miata calculator and got it up to 225/50/15 but I'm thinking the stock wheel isn't wide enough for that...)

1. Wheels
2. Bilstein Shocks
3. Progress Springs
4. RSX-S Rear Sway

//edit: Bilstein shocks are quite expensive, and hard to find... maybe koni yellows is a better idea? hm.


bilstiens are in stock at tirerack.com.....the are 700 and change.

[kai-wun]

its hard to quantify an anti-roll bar as being "good" or "bad", as anti-roll bar requirements are greatly influenced by spring choice and how you want the car to handle.


kai-wun; your tuning tree should look like this. From most important to least

1. Driver
2. Tires
3. Alignment
4. Dampers
5. Springs & anti-roll bars
6. Bushings & chassis braces.

Start at the top and work down.

Thanks! But it's just rear sway bars are sooo cheap compared to dampers, that I might as well just stick it in. But right now it's hard to say how I want my car to handle, it's just difficult to put into words isn't it? Just track it and adjust?

How about wheels? Smaller wheels have less rotational mass (that's only straightline acceleration?). But decreased sidewall minimizes flex?

Will my chassis or the summer stock tire be the limiting factor?

I mean, will upgrading to a 16" or 17" wheel benefit since I'd be running 205/50/16 or 205/45/17 instead of 205/55/15?

[Zzyzx]

Tuning is best done slowly and methodically. So yeah, Install a part... and tune. Install a part and tune.

For wheels, the general rule in racing is to run the smallest wheel that will clear your brakes, that is as wide as you can run with out rubbing on the dampers. Wrapped in as wide of a tire as you can fit.

Technically for this car that means run 15" wheels... but 16's are probably the better choice simply because there are more tires in useful widths in 16's then 15's now. And given how portly the EP3 is, wider is better!

Side wall flex wont be an issue much in street driving. And most of the top end summer tires have pretty stiff side walls. And you can always add in more negative camber to compensate.

And in the end... Tires are almost Always the limiting factor. They are after all the only thing touching the ground and thus the only thing that can generate traction...

Just remember that everything from your wheels up is just there to make best use of what ever tire you happen to be running. From alignment to spring rates.

[dofu2]

Side wall flex wont be an issue much in street driving. And most of the top end summer tires have pretty stiff side walls. And you can always add in more negative camber to compensate.

A bit off topic, but I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind...

How do you conclude that a certain alignment setting is best for a car? Stock settings for my car just isn't cutting it, but how do I find a setting that is good for this car? Is it pretty much set and test drive to see how I like it?

[03silverEP]

TIRES #1 this affects traction the MOST

shocks #2 good dampers make a huge difference, much more than springs

i know that's not so 'cool' but those two items are the most critical

[Kaiten]

Good info on here! thanks.

[Zzyzx]

A bit off topic, but I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind...

How do you conclude that a certain alignment setting is best for a car? Stock settings for my car just isn't cutting it, but how do I find a setting that is good for this car? Is it pretty much set and test drive to see how I like it?


The only 100% sure fire way to get exactly the amount of negative camber for your suspension & tire choice is to run the car on a skid pad and measure tire temperatures. Optimum would be when the tire temps are equal across the surface of the tire. If not equal there can be a slight increase in temp as you near the inside edge. But it should be a progression.

Tire temps are a good way to tune tire PSI's too, as you can quickly see if the tire is under or over inflated by simply checking the shoulder temps vs the center temps.

But since you probably dont have access to a skid pad let alone a tire temp gauge.... you can eyeball it with tire roll over.

Go buy some window chalk and mark the shoulder of your tires in one place. I like to mark it where the little wear bar triangle is. You don't have to go farther up the shoulder then that triangle!!!!

Take the car out on track and run a lap or two. Then check to see how much of the tire chalk has worn off. This will give you some view on how much the tire is rolling over. Adjust camber to compensate. I've been told that acceptable roll over is to the tip of that wear bar triangle... but that varies from tire to tire, so just try to get it so that its not cornering on the side walls.

Note that this can also be used for adjusting tire PSI as well. And Honestly its really easy to over do both camber and Tire PSI with this method....

So, be skeptical and be methodical and you should end up with a pretty close camber and PSI setup once you are done. But like I Said. Its not nearly as good as a skid pad and tire temp gauge!!

[ALL MotoR Ep3]

Progress Rear (Anti)Sway and Tie Bar ~185
Progress Sport Springs ~160
Adjustable Endlinks (Corsport?) ~55
Energy Suspension K20 Motor Mount Inserts ~32
Ingalls Front/Rear Camber Kit ~180

Stock Shocks, Stock Wheels

Sticky tires on wheels - Yokohama S.Drive 205/55/15 ?

thats definitely the cheap way out.......

but if you wanna spend money get one piece coilovers,good tires,esmm inserts and strut bars(all of them) and a few other parts....

[Tammy]

invest in good tires...even cheaper! lol


thats definitely the cheap way out.......

but if you wanna spend money get one piece coilovers,good tires,esmm inserts and strut bars(all of them) and a few other parts....

[oldskoofame]

invest in good tires...even cheaper! lol

that's interesting.
"invest in good tires ....even cheaper..."

good tires .... investment .... cheaper

good... tires = investment + cheaper............

:nono:

with this type of mentality, the all season tires that come on stock EP's are a good start for you guys. learn about how tires are made. and see how much more your pre-installed tires can give you.

1. getting good tires will only hide your mistakes
2. getting good tires won't last long
2a. if you say "well then get good alignment", then ur obviously not in for performance (broadly speaking).
3. it's a long term investment.. consider your income; u won't be running good tires forever. because you simply can't.

tires are the most expensive and fragile things in racing.


Progress Rear (Anti)Sway and Tie Bar ~185
Progress Sport Springs ~160
Adjustable Endlinks (Corsport?) ~55
Energy Suspension K20 Motor Mount Inserts ~32
Ingalls Front/Rear Camber Kit ~180

Stock Shocks, Stock Wheels

Sticky tires on wheels - Yokohama S.Drive 205/55/15 ?

if ur gonna have all those mods, might as well run 215/50-55/15 or 225/50/16 on yokohamas.. just get the heat keep flowing.

CHEAPEST way:
1. learn physics
2. understand your car and accept your car the way it is
3. apply your physics and your driving

AND THEN:
1. get camber kit (but keep stock suspension)

AND THEN:
2. sway bar

dude whatever, i've seen so much of this suspension debate + how to make car handle better shit i'm tired of it lol
i know a whole bunch of people who buy those "progress" "mugen" "cusco" stuff and don't even know what it does to their car. They simply hear someone say "we need strut bars" and so now they are out there in the market getting strut bars cuz SOMEONE SAID they needed it AND NOT BECAUSE the person went out and experienced it himself.

when u buy a mod, the best way to save money is:
1. FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANT
2. FIND THE THING YOU NEED TO GET WHAT YOU WANT

AND DO NOT:
1. SEE THE THING FIRST
2. MAKE YOURSELF WANT
3. PUT ON CAR
4. and say "WOOOOOOAA I FEEL IT TOO!! YOU GUYS REALLY HAVE TO GET THIS!!!!"
\\

[shanewdude]

^Yah, that!

From someone with stock suspension and a 22mm CTR rear sway on it's way, I LIKE THE WAY YOU'RE THINKING! Other than looking too tall, and a bit of body roll and understeer, I like my suspension! Now, if someone wants to let me drive their car to compare, I may be shown another way!

[Tammy]

agreed with oldskoofame...i do think understanding cars limits and physics are also very important...i have seen guys on the course with stock EFs with just eibach springs and tokico shocks, and a set of decent tires that have been dancing around race-ready cars. its amazing how much a person's skill can do to a stock car. only if i knew that much :mcry:



that's interesting.
"invest in good tires ....even cheaper..."

good tires .... investment .... cheaper

good... tires = investment + cheaper............

:nono:

with this type of mentality, the all season tires that come on stock EP's are a good start for you guys. learn about how tires are made. and see how much more your pre-installed tires can give you.

1. getting good tires will only hide your mistakes
2. getting good tires won't last long
2a. if you say "well then get good alignment", then ur obviously not in for performance (broadly speaking).
3. it's a long term investment.. consider your income; u won't be running good tires forever. because you simply can't.

tires are the most expensive and fragile things in racing.



if ur gonna have all those mods, might as well run 215/50-55/15 or 225/50/16 on yokohamas.. just get the heat keep flowing.

CHEAPEST way:
1. learn physics
2. understand your car and accept your car the way it is
3. apply your physics and your driving

AND THEN:
1. get camber kit (but keep stock suspension)

AND THEN:
2. sway bar

dude whatever, i've seen so much of this suspension debate + how to make car handle better shit i'm tired of it lol
i know a whole bunch of people who buy those "progress" "mugen" "cusco" stuff and don't even know what it does to their car. They simply hear someone say "we need strut bars" and so now they are out there in the market getting strut bars cuz SOMEONE SAID they needed it AND NOT BECAUSE the person went out and experienced it himself.

when u buy a mod, the best way to save money is:
1. FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANT
2. FIND THE THING YOU NEED TO GET WHAT YOU WANT

AND DO NOT:
1. SEE THE THING FIRST
2. MAKE YOURSELF WANT
3. PUT ON CAR
4. and say "WOOOOOOAA I FEEL IT TOO!! YOU GUYS REALLY HAVE TO GET THIS!!!!"
\\

[bchaney]

I'm about to buy the '06 RSX-S rear sway from the link posted: http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/acura/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?catcgry1=RSX&catcgry2=2006&catcgry3=3DR+TYPE-S&catcgry4=KA6MT&catcgry5=REAR+LOWER+ARM&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no&systemcomp=&prdrefno=145206&quantity=2&act=additem&hidSwitch=&hidIrno=&vinnoT=&trans=&trim=&view=normal&count=2

Are stock endlinks fine with this or should I get new ones? Will my car need an alignment after the install?

[20CiviC02Si]

Like many have said. Tires!

[civictype_r04]

ctr rear sway ~90$ and its the best 90$ ive spent on my EP

Where did you get the Type R sway for $90 I need one.

[Mechanic]

I'm about to buy the '06 RSX-S rear sway from the link posted: [url] . . . Are stock endlinks fine with this or should I get new ones? Will my car need an alignment after the install?
Yr stock endlinks are fine, but you'll need two new bushings (see item #6 in the schematic). The installation will have no effect on your alignment.