Engine runs terrible fouling plugs ( HELP )

[MR.Pizza]

Ok so I start the car and the whole car is shaking and it's blowing gray smoke out the muffler at idle and smells like fuel. It felt like it was running a cylinder shy so I pull the plugs. #1 is black and fouled and the rest seem fine. I replace the plugs and upload the base kal for the greddy with 440's ( what I Have ) and run the engine for 30 seconds. Same problem so I pull the new plugs and #1 is fouled and black. #2 looks clean as a whistle #3 & #4 look fine. So I do a compression test,

#1 150
#2 150
#3 150
#4 175

I'm pretty confused right now as to why the car is running like this, any ideas?

[MR.Pizza]

I'm guessing it's a valve but I'm not sure on how one would know. I guess time to throw the k24 in.

[dustyboner]

switch the coilpacks on #1 and #2, run the car for a little then check your plugs again.

[talonXracer]

Those numbers look low. But I would look at a dirty stuck open injector on #1. Swap the injector with another and see if the problem moves with it.

[MR.Pizza]

Cool I'll give that a try.

[MR.Pizza]

#1 plug fouled up within 30 seconds, car shakes seems like somethings up with that one. Crap.....

[v1c10us]

check the DIY on valve adjustment
it could be the valve lashing on cylinder one.
Do you have any codes? cylinder 1 misfire im assuming.
If the valve is too shut on the intake stroke you wont get enough air to ignite the fuel and then on the second intake stroke you'll burn so rich that you'll foul your plugs..
When the cylinder 1 coil pack is unplugged does it run any different than when it is plugged in?
my logic being that (atleast with a plug thats not fouled yet) you're igniting every other otto cycle, so with the spark plug out you wouldnt ignite any and the idle would get choppier or smoother, im not sure which.

[MR.Pizza]

Those numbers look low. But I would look at a dirty stuck open injector on #1. Swap the injector with another and see if the problem moves with it.

Yeah thats what I thought, I had 750's in there so I swapped those with the 440's and loaded the base kal. Then I replaced the plugs, still same issue.

[MR.Pizza]

check the DIY on valve adjustment
it could be the valve lashing on cylinder one.
Do you have any codes? cylinder 1 misfire im assuming.
If the valve is too shut on the intake stroke you wont get enough air to ignite the fuel and then on the second intake stroke you'll burn so rich that you'll foul your plugs..
When the cylinder 1 coil pack is unplugged does it run any different than when it is plugged in?
my logic being that (atleast with a plug thats not fouled yet) you're igniting every other otto cycle, so with the spark plug out you wouldnt ignite any and the idle would get choppier or smoother, im not sure which.

Yeah I'll pop the cover off and check the valve lashing, I'm not getting any codes but it sure runs like it's not firing correctly.

[v1c10us]

do you have feeler gauges?
if you do, check your intake valves are in spec. (i believe its .09-0.11, but you should check a more reliable source) If it is in spec then check the exhaust valves, although it is less likely that exhaust gasses being trapped in the cylinder would cause this it is still possible.

edit: since your compression was awfully low, atleast that seems low to me, i have 210-220 on all cylinders, i would think this could be happening on all cylinders, weird that its just that one. You might have valve seal leaks or something, i donno much about what causes a low compression reading like that.

[MR.Pizza]

I've noticed in the past that i've gotten very different readings depending on which tester is used, my compression has always read around this level though. I just noticed my marshall fuel gauge is jumping around alot more than I remember seeing before, is this an indicator of something?

[v1c10us]

that could indicate alot of things.
One could be that it pours fuel into the cylinder, it doesnt ignite, so it doesnt pour any fuel into the cylinder, then it ignites on the second cycle, fouls your plug, and then pours more fuel in, repeat repeat repeat. Gotta go eat dinner though, I'll be back to see what you find out in a couple hours

[MR.Pizza]

that could indicate alot of things.
One could be that it pours fuel into the cylinder, it doesnt ignite, so it doesnt pour any fuel into the cylinder, then it ignites on the second cycle, fouls your plug, and then pours more fuel in, repeat repeat repeat. Gotta go eat dinner though, I'll be back to see what you find out in a couple hours

Well I removed the coilpack and it's just about the same. I think #1 is firing every other or in frequently. When I remove the coilpack the engine runs just about the same. I'm gonna try adjusting my valve lash. I have a k24a1 on a stand at the shop ready to go in. I just didn't think the engine was gonna go this soon. Thanks for the help.

[v1c10us]

well whatever it is its nothing too serious, at the worst a head gasket so if you have the dilligence and dont want to put the k24 in yet this could be fixed for sure. Its most likely the valve lash though.
When the motor is running with the oil cap off do you have blow by?

[MR.Pizza]

well whatever it is its nothing too serious, at the worst a head gasket so if you have the dilligence and dont want to put the k24 in yet this could be fixed for sure. Its most likely the valve lash though.
When the motor is running with the oil cap off do you have blow by?

Ok, well I tried the valve lash and everything was pretty close but I adjusted everything to spec. I started the engine and it runs just as terrible, with the cap off I get air flying out pretty good. Like a blow dryer pretty much, I never noticed so much air before.

[talonXracer]

Fuel gauge? You have an aftermarket fuel rail?

[MR.Pizza]

Fuel gauge? You have an aftermarket fuel rail?

Yeah, the aem garbage rail. I just use it since it has a tap for a marshall fp gauge.

[talonXracer]

If the gauge is fluttering then it sounds like the fuel pulse damper isnt working. Did you use the proper sealing washers in the proper locations when bolting the damper on?

Did you try swapping injectors around?

[MR.Pizza]

If the gauge is fluttering then it sounds like the fuel pulse damper isnt working. Did you use the proper sealing washers in the proper locations when bolting the damper on?

Did you try swapping injectors around?

Yeah it pulses more than I ever remember seeing before I noticed, I installed it correctly with the damper and everything. If I remember it wouldn't even move when it was idling before. I had 750's on and swapped in my 440's and still the same problem, the kal was changed to the base greddy kit. I swapped the coilpacks around and the plugs. I double checked my injector clips so it's getting fuel. #2 #3 #4 are working fine #1 plug is turning sooty black even after a few seconds of running. Valve lash seems right on.

[shadowmd]

screw the a3 and put in the k24! i wanna see that turbo in action!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mcool: :mangel:

[SyckSiR]

might be a dumb idea but do u have extra fuel going to cyl one in kpro? sometimes the easiest solution is the right one...maybe go thro ur kpro tune, something might be wrong in there.....

[dustyboner]

might be a dumb idea but do u have extra fuel going to cyl one in kpro? sometimes the easiest solution is the right one...maybe go thro ur kpro tune, something might be wrong in there.....

thats what i thought a first. that maybe the fuel trim for the #1 cylinder was set high but he loaded the base .kal and it was still doing it.

[MR.Pizza]

screw the a3 and put in the k24! i wanna see that turbo in action!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mcool: :mangel:

I'm thinking the screw too it as well. I was planning on swapping it this weekend anyway but now I can't sell the motor.

might be a dumb idea but do u have extra fuel going to cyl one in kpro? sometimes the easiest solution is the right one...maybe go thro ur kpro tune, something might be wrong in there.....

Yeah I checked the fuel trim and it's set correctly, I took the car around the block but it's for sure something wrong. It has no power and jerks under throttle like it wants to go but not all the cylinders are popping. I pulled the plug when I got back and it was covered in soot.

[v1c10us]

That seems like you have excess crankcase pressure, could explain the low compression.
Take the breather filter or hose to your intake off depending on what you've got. I have a feeling your going to find a large amount of oil shooting out of that tube.
That much crankcase pressure would mean that you have a leak in a cylinder seal.
The fluctuating fuel gauge could be a result of the pressure in the cylinders escaping and the resistance on the fuel injectors changing very rapidly.
I think you've got a gasket leaking somewhere.


edit: you could have damaged one of your rings due to incomplete combustion in the cylinder, or a damaged ring could be causing the incomplete combustion, but if theres as much air as your describing coming out of the oil fill hole that would definitely insinuate a cylinder ring has lost its seal.

[MR.Pizza]

That seems like you have excess crankcase pressure, could explain the low compression.
Take the breather filter or hose to your intake off depending on what you've got. I have a feeling your going to find a large amount of oil shooting out of that tube.
That much crankcase pressure would mean that you have a leak in a cylinder seal.
The fluctuating fuel gauge could be a result of the pressure in the cylinders escaping and the resistance on the fuel injectors changing very rapidly.
I think you've got a gasket leaking somewhere.

Yeah, the air coming out of the valve cover makes noise and shoots a bit of oil out at its velocity. I have a breather filter attached to the valve cover, perhaps it blocked up since I didn't notice much oil around it. I think your correct in your assessment of the cylinder leak. Could this be a head gasket leak? What does white smoke at the tail pipe mean? Seems it is worse when the engine is cold, when it warms up it seems to run better but when I throttle it or hit boost you can feel it cutting out.

By the way thanks again for everyones help, I guess I'll be starting my swap tomorrow. Look put for a bunch of stupid questions while I'm doing that.

[v1c10us]

it could be a head gasket leak but if it is one of those its a minor one. I think its a cylinder ring.
white smoke is water vapor or oil.
If it is a leak it will be okay under average pressures but when you start trying to give it gas there will be more force in the cylinder and the gasses are going to blow by the cylinder rings and enter the crank case, shooting out that breather filter.
This has probably damaged your Positive crank ventilation valve as well.
If you can get the head off and inspect the gasket that could give you some clues, inspect the cylinder rings etc.
What have you been boosting at? you said you've got the greddy kit so im assuming 9ish psi?
When you swap the motor, since it seems like your going to do it anyway, get the head off the block and inspect. You might be able to fix the problem in your spare time and still sell it.

[MR.Pizza]

it could be a head gasket leak but if it is one of those its a minor one. I think its a cylinder ring.
white smoke is water vapor or oil.
If it is a leak it will be okay under average pressures but when you start trying to give it gas there will be more force in the cylinder and the gasses are going to blow by the cylinder rings and enter the crank case, shooting out that breather filter.
This has probably damaged your Positive crank ventilation valve as well.
If you can get the head off and inspect the gasket that could give you some clues, inspect the cylinder rings etc.
What have you been boosting at? you said you've got the greddy kit so im assuming 9ish psi?
When you swap the motor, since it seems like your going to do it anyway, get the head off the block and inspect. You might be able to fix the problem in your spare time and still sell it.

Again I think your right on the ring. I'll pull engine apart when I get a chance and see what it is but getting the new engine in seems overwhelming right now is all. I was boosting 8psi but I think I did it last night. I parked my car in front of my house cause a friend was blocking the garage. I went and pulled it into the garage at about 2am in my boxers and it was very cold last night and didn't let the car warm up before I moved it. I new I should have let it warm up and I always do but was just in a hurry.

[PAPITUYO326]

k24 time.:mwink:

[talonXracer]

Something is causing the #1 cylinder to have too much fuel. How about just disconnecting that cylinders injector and trying to run the car.

70% of the time a misfire is from TOO MUCH fuel, not a lack of spark. In fact after simply stating to swap out plug and coil the next three pages in the Helms is all concerned with fuel supply issue troubleshooting.

Too much fuel will fuel wash the cylinder walls and remove the oil, then you will wear the rings abnormally quick.

[MR.Pizza]

Something is causing the #1 cylinder to have too much fuel. How about just disconnecting that cylinders injector and trying to run the car.

70% of the time a misfire is from TOO MUCH fuel, not a lack of spark. In fact after simply stating to swap out plug and coil the next three pages in the Helms is all concerned with fuel supply issue troubleshooting.

Too much fuel will fuel wash the cylinder walls and remove the oil, then you will wear the rings abnormally quick.

Yeah , I tried disconnecting the injector clip. I'm not sure what I was looking for but the engine did run worse. I pulled the coil pack and could hear the engine stop firing that cylinder so the cylinder is working. I am amazed that the brand new plug will be covered in black soot within seconds. I know I was running a bit rich at wot with the 750's but all my old plugs where showing good combustion. I did another compression test on that cylinder and it was down to 140 this time after the car was warm. By the way I ran the car for about 30 minutes and I never got a misfire code. I did have obd 2 disabled so I'm not sure if it would throw the code though.

[talonXracer]

Dont worry about it,,,,just swap away, seeing you have an engine ready. Your answers will be answered when you disassemble it.

[dustyboner]

the wire between the injector and ecu might be shorting to ground. if you have a meter check for continuity between (-) side of the plug and ground

[MR.Pizza]

Dont worry about it,,,,just swap away, seeing you have an engine ready. Your answers will be answered when you disassemble it.


Problem Solved........

First let me confirm to you folks what my wife already knows.....
I am a first class numb skull and I hope my engine isn't damaged cause of this.
So when I swapped injectors I must have left a 750 on #1 and the rest were 440's because I was rechecking everything this morning there it was. I'm not sure why the car was running like crap in the first place though before I changed the injectors. Possible I had a 440 in #1 when the rest were 750's and never new it. What a retard guys, please don't tell anyone.
I took the car up to the corner and it runs better than it has in months. I don't think I can describe how stupid I feel right now....

Thanks again to Vicious and TalonXracer for checking back and helping me out. Now I'm going to attempt to kick myself in the balls.

the wire between the injector and ecu might be shorting to ground. if you have a meter check for continuity between (-) side of the plug and ground

Yeah I did this and never once double checked the injector size, lol.

[jimmyjames]

Problem Solved........

First let me confirm to you folks what my wife already knows.....
I am a first class numb skull and I hope my engine isn't damaged cause of this.Cocaine's a hell of a drug. Glad you worked it out. I would have offered my opinion but I was working under the assumption you weren't a moron. :phone: (and that's a joke by the way)

[talonXracer]

:brick:


LOL, LOL, LOL I told you it was getting too much fuel on that cylinder.....Glad you got it all figured out.

[MR.Pizza]

Cocaine's a hell of a drug. Glad you worked it out. I would have offered my opinion but I was working under the assumption you weren't a moron. :phone: (and that's a joke by the way)
No you are correct sir, I have to double check my underwear isn't inside out every morning. I'd really like to blame this on my wife calling me whenever I'm working on my car and distracting me but this is all mine.

:brick:


LOL, LOL, LOL I told you it was getting too much fuel on that cylinder.....Glad you got it all figured out.

Yeah you did, the service manual reference really hit home and thats why I double checked it. I was packing my tools and heading to the shop.

:kiss:

[jimmyjames]

LOL
750/440 = 1.705 X as much fuel

[MR.Pizza]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/8472/stupidde7.jpg

[v1c10us]

^funny picture.
Well its probably running great now since you've got new spark plugs and you readjusted your valves to spec. Might've been good for ya.