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powdbyrice
05-02-2008, 10:31 AM
With gas at $4/gallon right now, everyone is looking for a way to get better MPG.

One option is adding a 6th gear from a TSX. Dont add the 6th gear from the RSX-S because its the same as our 5th.

Found this write up on Element Owners Club. OP added a 6th gear to his K24 Element complete with pix.
http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25635

Estimated cost of parts:
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh206/yellowsubmarine531/TSX6thcost.jpg



Part numbers supplied are from a 2006 Acura TSX 6MT
The identical parts could be obtained from a 2006 Civic Si 6MT, but the part numbers will be slightly different.

I recommend both of these manuals:
Helms Honda Element Manual
Helms Acura TSX Manual

- Shifter mechanism parts -
Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000
Shift arm interlock 24430-PNS-000 (or modify the old one)

*5-6 gearshift fork 24201-RAS-000* NOTE: In at least one CRV and possibly in some later model Elements the Reverse shift piece may be welded to the Element's 5-Reverse shift fork, instead of being attached by a pin. In this case see step 3 below.

These parts are optional. The function of these parts hasn't been determined; however the transmission functions well without them. They may be necessary for reverse safety interlock.
* MBS arm 24412-PNS-000
* MBS arm spring 24413-PNS-000
* - added by MikeQBF. }

- Main shaft parts -
Mainshaft 6th gear 23590-RAS-A00
Needle Bearing (35 x 41 x 24) 91103-RAS-003
Collar (28 x 35 x 24) 23916-PNS-000
5-6 Synchronizer Sleeve Set 23626-PNS-315

- Countershaft parts -
Special bolt 90011-PPP-000
Countershaft 6th gear 23491-RAS-000



Here is the latest from the roadtrip. This is at a steady 72mph cruise on the highway. I made two brief stops. I ran the gas down to just above the E and got 427 miles on a single tank! I filled it with 13.6 gallons to give 31.4 MPG. I can't help but think that this is awesome. I used to average 25-26mpg under the same conditions. I can't believe how well this worked.

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45524

talonXracer
05-02-2008, 10:40 AM
Add the 4.3 fd AND the TSX 6th

powdbyrice
05-02-2008, 10:49 AM
and an LSD while you're in there? :)

talonXracer
05-02-2008, 10:50 AM
and an LSD while you're in there? :)

Most definitely!

04cvcsi
05-02-2008, 11:03 AM
Add the 4.3 fd AND the TSX 6th
is it necessary to install the 4.3 FD when installing the tsx 6th?

davisj3537
05-02-2008, 11:08 AM
is it necessary to install the 4.3 FD when installing the tsx 6th?

No sir...but why stop at the 4.3? Shit I'd get the 4.0:nod:

powdbyrice
05-02-2008, 11:11 AM
it'll be asked eventually, so here it is:

Why add the 4.3 FD in addition to the 6th gear? Wont the 6th gear alone drop my rpms ~500? What overall effects does it have?

skooba
05-02-2008, 11:11 AM
it would take quite a bit of time to recoup the cost in gas savings.

talonXracer
05-02-2008, 11:25 AM
it'll be asked eventually, so here it is:

Why add the 4.3 FD in addition to the 6th gear? Wont the 6th gear alone drop my rpms ~500? What overall effects does it have?

It would drop your rpm's even further. But unless you have alot more torque than stock then I wouldnt use a 4.3fd in the EP3's 5speed, it would be a dog around town.

skooba
05-02-2008, 11:30 AM
Here's a few assumptions to determine if the cost justifies the savings.

Basic assumptions:
Current MPG: 30
Cost of gas: $4/gal
Miles driven per year: 15,000

New MPG: 34

yearly cost in gas w/ 5spd: $2,000
yearly cost in gas w/ 6spd: $1764.71

Savings after one year: $235.29

Of course, if you drive more than 15k per year, the savings are higher, and vice versa. Likewise, if the cost of gas goes higher, you save more each year.

04cvcsi
05-02-2008, 11:41 AM
No sir...but why stop at the 4.3? Shit I'd get the 4.0:nod:
b/c the 4.0 is $500:frusty:

talonXracer
05-02-2008, 11:51 AM
b/c the 4.0 is $500:frusty:


Just get the DC5base tranny(4.3fd), add the TSX 6th and a LSD and call it a day.

powdbyrice
05-02-2008, 11:55 AM
i'm scurred of the labor involved. never cracked a transmission open before.

oldschoolimport
05-02-2008, 12:31 PM
Here's a few assumptions to determine if the cost justifies the savings.

Basic assumptions:
Current MPG: 30


how the fuck are you gettin 30? 20-22 is my usual in town, and 30 on trips. :mfrown:

skooba
05-02-2008, 12:33 PM
how the fuck are you gettin 30? 20-22 is my usual in town, and 30 on trips. :mfrown:

I don't own an EP anymore, but back when I did, it was easy to get 30, full highway driving i'd get 32-33. I usually got around 28 on an average tank. But regardless, if you see a 4mpg increase, you can expect a $230-$250 per year savings.

oldschoolimport
05-02-2008, 12:42 PM
part of mine is probably due to my work being 2 miles away, the car hardly gets out of closed-loop, and it runs pig rich while in closed-loop. oh well. I only drive about 8-9k per year.

dobbs02si
05-03-2008, 06:11 PM
part of mine is probably due to my work being 2 miles away, the car hardly gets out of closed-loop, and it runs pig rich while in closed-loop. oh well. I only drive about 8-9k per year.

AND you live in friggin stop light central lol. I HATE the damn lights here..

oldschoolimport
05-04-2008, 06:06 AM
AND you live in friggin stop light central lol. I HATE the damn lights here..

you have a point! :mfrown:

Kodeen
05-05-2008, 10:04 AM
What FD does the stock EP tranny have?

powdbyrice
05-05-2008, 10:10 AM
thanks to 04cvcsi for posting this!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/MJ23FE/Tranny%20Gear%20Calculations/K-SeriesTransmissionTablev3-28-08re.jpg

sloweredcivic
05-17-2008, 04:38 PM
Okay my head hurts!!! what are the advantages of adding the tsx 6th gear to the a3 five speed? i mean yeah you get a lil better mileage but your first five gears are spread apart. Since its almost 500 bucks before labor how come just not swap to a rsx 6 speed its like 100 rpm difference in 6th gear at 80 right?

powdbyrice
05-18-2008, 07:25 PM
EP 5th gear = rsx-s 6th gear.

sloweredcivic
05-18-2008, 07:56 PM
EP 5th gear = rsx-s 6th gear.

I was reffering to swaping whole tranny's since i would have to pay someone to do the work and the parts are 500 bucks?

lldiesel386ll
05-20-2008, 08:59 PM
would anyone have any answer to the necessity of the 5-6 sleeve set?

lldiesel386ll
05-21-2008, 06:25 PM
bump for info:mbiggrin:

pynikal
05-25-2008, 07:50 AM
is ther any differnce in the case??

lldiesel386ll
05-25-2008, 10:02 AM
is ther any differnce in the case??

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10632
i am assuming you are asking if there is a difference between our cases and the 05-up cases (transmissions from the z1's and z3's)? if so that link should help. :thumb:

v1c10us
05-25-2008, 10:13 AM
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32686 loads of pics.
click for a better writeup than the one on honda's element page, OP might wan't to add this to the first post so someone who decides they want to do it can have loads of informations..

lldiesel386ll
05-25-2008, 11:44 AM
all the posted links here are awesome. i am still wondering about the importance of the 5-6 sleeve set--does anyone have any input on that?

04cvcsi
05-25-2008, 11:53 AM
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32686 loads of pics.
click for a better writeup than the one on honda's element page, OP might wan't to add this to the first post so someone who decides they want to do it can have loads of informations..
so is that thread about rebuilding a 6 speed w/ a tsx 6th gear or adding a tsx 6th to a 5 speed?

is it the same process?

lldiesel386ll
05-26-2008, 07:06 PM
so is that thread about rebuilding a 6 speed w/ a tsx 6th gear or adding a tsx 6th to a 5 speed?

is it the same process?

dont quote me, as all ive done so far is read:nerd:, but i would assume that the process of rebuilding would be the same as adding:noidea:

chunky
05-31-2008, 08:51 PM
I'm still waiting on the trans. parts I ordered to arrive. 5.062 final drive + TSX 6th gear. Can't WAIT. My cruising RPM at 80mph will go down 200rpm. I already get 30+mpg on the freeway. Best I've managed is about 35-36 or so. I bet I could score a couple more MPG with the TSX 6th, even with the 5.0 FD. :p

lldiesel386ll
06-16-2008, 10:29 AM
update

i have only driven the car a little over 350 miles with the new lsd and 6th gear, but the 5-6 sleeve set seem unnecessary--i have had no problems with the transmission thus far :thumb:
:knock on wood:

here is my parts list--stuff necessary to put that gear in
24240-PNS-000 PIECE, REVERSE SHIFT 1
24430-PNS-000 INTERLOCK 1
24201-RAS-000 FORK, FIFTH-SIXTH GEARSHIFT 1
23590-RAS-A00 GEAR, MAINSHAFT SIXTH 1
91103-RAS-003 BEARING, NEEDLE (35X41X24) 1
23916-PNS-000 COLLAR, DISTANCE (28X35X24) 1
90011-PPP-000 BOLT, SPECIAL (20X25) 1
23491-RAS-000 GEAR, COUNTERSHAFT SIXTH 1
that elementownersclub thread was very helpful, when used hand in hand with the service manual of an rsx s

powdbyrice
06-16-2008, 04:15 PM
nice!

it seems that some needed the 5-6 sleeve while others did not.

did you do the work yourself? are you still on the A3?

lldiesel386ll
06-17-2008, 10:08 AM
i did all that work by myself (a hydraulic press courtesy of harbor freight and my credit card helped me out there), and no i am no longer powered by the a3:mcool:

powdbyrice
06-17-2008, 10:17 AM
sorry for all of the quesitons, but i'm just trying to get an idea of the difficulty of this project.

how long did it take you?
what would you say your wrenching skill level is?

humpmasterflex
06-24-2008, 11:00 AM
It says that our Ep3's and Fa5's have same final drive, but in my 5th gear i got 57 MPH at 3k, while my friends does 66 mph in 6th gear at the same rpm. So If I were to put that sixth gear on.... it definitely would benefit me.

EP3_U_SEE
07-14-2008, 11:48 PM
good info......

lldiesel386ll
07-16-2008, 06:28 PM
sorry for all of the quesitons, but i'm just trying to get an idea of the difficulty of this project.

how long did it take you?
what would you say your wrenching skill level is?

really sorry for the delay
it is really hard to say how long it took me due to all the delays i had. id say that you should leave a couple days open--one day to put all that mess together, and another day to put it back int he car. i am by no means a mechanic, but as a mechanical engineer, i figured i was able to understand everything that was going on. in all honesty though it didnt seem like rocket science. the helms manual from the type s, the hondaelementownersclub thread, and the k20.org transmission rebuild thread were all invaluable resources in figuring everything out. an extra set of hands to put all the forks and shafts in line would definitely help
i have currently logged well over 3000 miles with it all put together with no issues:rockon:

powdbyrice
07-18-2008, 12:20 PM
SWEEEEET!!!

hows the gas mileage looking?

what rpm are you at when going 70mph in 6th (final drive still the same?)?

lldiesel386ll
07-18-2008, 01:44 PM
SWEEEEET!!!

hows the gas mileage looking?

what rpm are you at when going 70mph in 6th (final drive still the same?)?

gas mileage was pretty sweet. with almost 500 extra pounds sitting in my car for the trip i averaged around 28-30 when i was babying it at 70 in the highway. i was cruising there at around 3k rpms, making casual conversation very easy to deal with :thumb: supposedly every 100 lbs kills about 1 mpg, so without that extra weight i could be averaging 33-35:meek:...someone please correct me if i am wrong

drjd888
07-19-2008, 01:03 AM
It's like a large Lego set except if you mess up your pieces break and you have big problems. Props to whoever does it themselves, I couldn't imagine dealing with that build.

lldiesel386ll
07-19-2008, 08:56 PM
its not as bad as you think. with another set or two of competent hands helping you, and making sure you are somewhat meticulous with what you are doing, its relatively difficult to actually break anything. the only real difficulty i had was taking that speed gear off the open diff to put onto the lsd--that didnt work all too well, and i was better off ordering a new one:mconfused:

v1c10us
07-20-2008, 12:57 AM
so is that thread about rebuilding a 6 speed w/ a tsx 6th gear or adding a tsx 6th to a 5 speed?

is it the same process?

havent checked up on this thread in a while..
But to answer your question, he is rebuiling a 5 speed and i believe he was replacing 1st and 2nd gear synchros or something as well as an LSD and a FD..
But you would simply have to compare the pictures to what you're looking at and work backwards.
Start with his last picture and slowly remove untill you get to the part where he adds something that you dont have to remove, then take your parts and put them in like heh as in the pictures and then reverse untill everythings back together. I'm scared of transmissions but i could do it with just the pictures provided i had the right parts.

MadLorEP3
04-16-2010, 05:43 AM
update

i have only driven the car a little over 350 miles with the new lsd and 6th gear, but the 5-6 sleeve set seem unnecessary--i have had no problems with the transmission thus far :thumb:
:knock on wood:

here is my parts list--stuff necessary to put that gear in
24240-PNS-000 PIECE, REVERSE SHIFT 1
24430-PNS-000 INTERLOCK 1
24201-RAS-000 FORK, FIFTH-SIXTH GEARSHIFT 1
23590-RAS-A00 GEAR, MAINSHAFT SIXTH 1
91103-RAS-003 BEARING, NEEDLE (35X41X24) 1
23916-PNS-000 COLLAR, DISTANCE (28X35X24) 1
90011-PPP-000 BOLT, SPECIAL (20X25) 1
23491-RAS-000 GEAR, COUNTERSHAFT SIXTH 1
that elementownersclub thread was very helpful, when used hand in hand with the service manual of an rsx s

So what is the final verdict are all these parts really necessary in order to put the tsx 6th gear into the ep3. Do I also need a shifter mechanism from a type-s or is it one of the parts listed above going by a different name

So if Talon Suggested that instead of spending about $440 on a 4.3FD its better to just get a rsx base 5spd that already has the 4.3 FD and add LSD and tsx 6th gear then thats what Im going to do. On second thought I will just buy the 4.3FD cuz it will cost about the same to buy rsx base right?

clubrsx sells a tsx 6th package for $185 which includes
mainshaft 6th
countershaft 6th
needle bearing
single cone synchro

I thought it was everything needed to do the tsx 6th gear but based on the info here I guess its not complete afterall.

MadLorEP3
04-16-2010, 06:08 PM
update

i have only driven the car a little over 350 miles with the new lsd and 6th gear, but the 5-6 sleeve set seem unnecessary--i have had no problems with the transmission thus far :thumb:
:knock on wood:

here is my parts list--stuff necessary to put that gear in
24240-PNS-000 PIECE, REVERSE SHIFT 1
24430-PNS-000 INTERLOCK 1
24201-RAS-000 FORK, FIFTH-SIXTH GEARSHIFT 1
23590-RAS-A00 GEAR, MAINSHAFT SIXTH 1
91103-RAS-003 BEARING, NEEDLE (35X41X24) 1
23916-PNS-000 COLLAR, DISTANCE (28X35X24) 1
90011-PPP-000 BOLT, SPECIAL (20X25) 1
23491-RAS-000 GEAR, COUNTERSHAFT SIXTH 1
that elementownersclub thread was very helpful, when used hand in hand with the service manual of an rsx s

so i guess this is not needed

Synchronizer sleeve set(5-6) 23626-PNS-305 $264.40

can the op update the first post
that would be great
thanks

lldiesel386ll
04-16-2010, 09:33 PM
so i guess this is not needed

Synchronizer sleeve set(5-6) 23626-PNS-305 $264.40

can the op update the first post
that would be great
thanks

holy crap that was long ago...:mtongue:

swapped at 29505 miles, getting around 65 now. outside of my need to flush my oil out, no problems :thumbu: there was an update to that about a year ago, but that was lost to the second crash. oh well--no new/interesting news missed on this thread on my part since then :shrug:

MadLorEP3
04-17-2010, 12:20 AM
Maybe i missed it but i dont remember anything being mentioned about getting either a z3 or type s shifter mechanism

lldiesel386ll
04-17-2010, 05:21 AM
i dont recall purchasing any different mechanisms outside of the first two parts :shrug: its been just about two years since i have cracked open that transmission case. i am currently in the middle of trying to find a house--when things settle down on my end i will look up what was needed :thumbu:

MadLorEP3
04-17-2010, 05:31 AM
5SPD EP3 CONVERSION TO 6SPD PARTS LIST:

I know that part number 1 is not listed on the original list but Im wondering why the clubrsx peoples say they are needed
does anyone know if part 1 is needed
1. Honda Single Cone Synchronizer (23641-PPP-000) Ring, Blocking (66SZ)
($28.94)

2. Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $35.70
3. Interlock 24430-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $22.34
4. Fork, Fifth-Sixth Gearshift 24201-RAS-000 (04-09TSX)$53.76
5. Mainshaft Sixth Gear 23590-RAS-A00 (06-08 TSX) $57.60
6. Needle Bearing 91103-RAS-003 (35x41x24)(06-09 TSX) $7.69
7. Distance Collar 23916-PNS-000 (28x35x24) (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $4.24
8) Bolt, Special (20X25) 90011-PPP-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $4.94
9) Countershaft sixth gear 23491-RAS-000 (04-08 TSX) $50.53

usedep3
06-10-2010, 09:27 AM
5SPD EP3 CONVERSION TO 6SPD PARTS LIST:

I know that part number 1 is not listed on the original list but Im wondering why the clubrsx peoples say they are needed
does anyone know if part 1 is needed
1. Honda Single Cone Synchronizer (23641-PPP-000) Ring, Blocking (66SZ)
($28.94)

2. Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $35.70
3. Interlock 24430-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $22.34
4. Fork, Fifth-Sixth Gearshift 24201-RAS-000 (04-09TSX)$53.76
5. Mainshaft Sixth Gear 23590-RAS-A00 (06-08 TSX) $57.60
6. Needle Bearing 91103-RAS-003 (35x41x24)(06-09 TSX) $7.69
7. Distance Collar 23916-PNS-000 (28x35x24) (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $4.24
8) Bolt, Special (20X25) 90011-PPP-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $4.94
9) Countershaft sixth gear 23491-RAS-000 (04-08 TSX) $50.53

did you find out if the: Honda Single Cone Synchronizer (23641-PPP-000) Ring, Blocking (66SZ) ($28.94)
was needed?

i opted to not get the 5-6 syncro set. does that mean i need this single cone syncro?

AKEP
06-12-2010, 02:25 PM
wow, my shit got deleted. i had some good info on here.

MajorJones
06-12-2010, 03:15 PM
Why dont you just swap the DC-R tranny in? 6th gear plus a short final drive. Doing 70 with it am at about 3k. i can make a 250 trip on a full tank of gas and still able to drive around for about 2 day before the light turns on. i figure if your going to spend the money might as well. Props to you on building it yourself, good luck man :thumbu:

Anrasmor
08-17-2010, 10:50 AM
5SPD EP3 CONVERSION TO 6SPD PARTS LIST:

I know that part number 1 is not listed on the original list but Im wondering why the clubrsx peoples say they are needed
does anyone know if part 1 is needed
1. Honda Single Cone Synchronizer (23641-PPP-000) Ring, Blocking (66SZ)
($28.94)

2. Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $35.70
3. Interlock 24430-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $22.34
4. Fork, Fifth-Sixth Gearshift 24201-RAS-000 (04-09TSX)$53.76
5. Mainshaft Sixth Gear 23590-RAS-A00 (06-08 TSX) $57.60
6. Needle Bearing 91103-RAS-003 (35x41x24)(06-09 TSX) $7.69
7. Distance Collar 23916-PNS-000 (28x35x24) (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $4.24
8) Bolt, Special (20X25) 90011-PPP-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX) $4.94
9) Countershaft sixth gear 23491-RAS-000 (04-08 TSX) $50.53

I've been looking around for the last 2 weeks or so online and am still having a hard time finding a complete parts list for just the conversion aspect of adding the 6th gear to an ep3. So I emailed clubrsx technical support and they gave me a list of what they say you need. I'm hoping somebody who has done it before will be able to verify if this list is correct or the one posted by madlorglk. Here's the list from crsx:

Along with the TSX6th package you will also need these parts:

23916-PNS-000
24201-PNS-010
24240-PNS-000
24210-PNS-010
24430-PNS-000
24412-PNS-000

This also appears on the clubep3 site. I'm assuming these are pretty much the same parts but Acura part numbers. They do mention that this is all you need to add the 6th gear to the A3:

http://www.clubrsx.com/clubep3/tsxgears.html

bluejayxiong
08-18-2010, 12:59 PM
Wow you guy are awesome. I'm a newbie at fixing cars so could any show me or explain how to add the 6th gear? like pictures or step by step? I would like to add 6th gear to me 04 ep3. I also want to know if adding the 6th gear will add any torque and horse? is there like a way that the TSX tranny could fit onto our k20a3?

jonathanep3
10-09-2010, 07:56 PM
i have a 2004 civic si with the k20a3 5 speed transmission can i put the JDM Civic EP3 K20A NPR3 Type R 6 Speed Transmission (LSD Equipped/4.764 FD)

AKEP
10-10-2010, 05:07 PM
Wow you guy are awesome. I'm a newbie at fixing cars so could any show me or explain how to add the 6th gear? like pictures or step by step? I would like to add 6th gear to me 04 ep3. I also want to know if adding the 6th gear will add any torque and horse? is there like a way that the TSX tranny could fit onto our k20a3?

since i was goig to do this last year, i'll take pictures this year when i take it apart. for this thread.
No, the tsx tranny will not fit, it bolts to the frame differently. its only swappable between accords and tsx's


i have a 2004 civic si with the k20a3 5 speed transmission can i put the JDM Civic EP3 K20A NPR3 Type R 6 Speed Transmission (LSD Equipped/4.764 FD)

yes, but search next time.

AKEP
10-24-2010, 11:23 PM
ok guys, got this ready to order next month (end of november) and an LSD.

Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Interlock 24430-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Fork, Fifth-Sixth Gearshift 24201-RAS-000 (04-09TSX)
Mainshaft Sixth Gear 23590-RAS-A00 (06-08 TSX)
Needle Bearing 91103-RAS-003 (35x41x24)(06-09 TSX)
Distance Collar 23916-PNS-000 (28x35x24) (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Bolt, Special (20X25) 90011-PPP-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Countershaft sixth gear 23491-RAS-000 (04-08 TSX)
3rd gear set for ep3/rsx

came out to like $462 shipped.

talonXracer
10-25-2010, 05:43 AM
is there like a way that the TSX tranny could fit onto our k20a3?
No it will not fit, BUT you can crack it open and slip the complete internals in to the EP3's 5 spd case...


i have a 2004 civic si with the k20a3 5 speed transmission can i put the JDM Civic EP3 K20A NPR3 Type R 6 Speed Transmission (LSD Equipped/4.764 FD)

Yes

usedep3
10-25-2010, 05:52 AM
ok guys, got this ready to order next month (end of november) and an LSD.

Reverse shift piece 24240-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Interlock 24430-PNS-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Fork, Fifth-Sixth Gearshift 24201-RAS-000 (04-09TSX)
Mainshaft Sixth Gear 23590-RAS-A00 (06-08 TSX)
Needle Bearing 91103-RAS-003 (35x41x24)(06-09 TSX)
Distance Collar 23916-PNS-000 (28x35x24) (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Bolt, Special (20X25) 90011-PPP-000 (02-06 RSX/04-09 TSX)
Countershaft sixth gear 23491-RAS-000 (04-08 TSX)
3rd gear set for ep3/rsx

came out to like $462 shipped.

are you planning to do the work yourself?

AKEP
10-25-2010, 10:11 AM
yes.

usedep3
10-25-2010, 10:54 AM
if you're gonna replace the diff with an LSD i recommend getting new bolts for it. they have a very fine thread. get a new speedo gear. it's easier to install a new one than to try and take it off your old diff. it cracks very easily. this way you have a spare if you deicde to try and take the original off of your open diff. also, syncro springs would be a good idea. i had about 110k on my tranny when i split it open. after i installed the tsx 6th and lsd, i had issues with the car popping out of 5th and 6th on the highway. the syncro's were fine it's the springs that needed to be replaced. i ended up dropping the tranny again and tearing it apart again just to replace the spring...

has the tranny been opened up before? there are a few other things i would recommended replacing if the tranny has been opened up prior to this install.

AKEP
10-25-2010, 04:45 PM
never opened. 105k on it.
besides the fine threading, is there any other reason to replace the bolts? i'll probably do it because the bolts can be had at honda for about $20
i'll look into a new speedo gear, i'll wait till i crack mine first tho =]
what are these springs you speak of?
what else would you recommend i change/look at?

Im open to suggestions, as anything you bring up could be used as guidance to anyone else that wants to do this. in ~8 years of wrenching, i've never opened a MT up, so it'll help me out too.

BTW im not doing this out of MY garage, im bringing it to 1 of 2 real garages that i have access to.

usedep3
10-25-2010, 05:19 PM
never opened. 105k on it.
besides the fine threading, is there any other reason to replace the bolts? i'll probably do it because the bolts can be had at honda for about $20
i'll look into a new speedo gear, i'll wait till i crack mine first tho =]
what are these springs you speak of?
what else would you recommend i change/look at?

Im open to suggestions, as anything you bring up could be used as guidance to anyone else that wants to do this. in ~8 years of wrenching, i've never opened a MT up, so it'll help me out too.

BTW im not doing this out of MY garage, im bringing it to 1 of 2 real garages that i have access to.

my friend who rebuilds tranny's recommended that i replaced those bolts.

well, just be careful with the speedo gear. when you're pressing it on with the hydraulic press, it has to be pressed on with 100% even pressure. they crack very easily. i opted to have a spare one because i had to minimize chances of making my downtime longer

the syncro springs are the rings around each syncro. iirc it actually keeps the car in gear once you shift into it. problem is i don't think honda sells them separately. i sourced them from a friend's shop

http://www.hondapartscheap.com/southbay/jsp/catimgs/14S5S0_M07.gif

be very careful when you replace 6/7/9/10 in the pic above. if you over torque them just slightly the end of the bolt will mushroom and not function properly.

also, i don't remember it being in the DIY but when i dropped the tranny the second time i removed 5/8. its part of the 5 speed lockout. prior to me removing this i had problems getting into 6th gear from 5th.

if i think of anything else, i'll post up

AKEP
10-25-2010, 07:17 PM
wait... did you end up just buying what madlorglk listed, minus the blocking ring? how did all that work out for you?

AKEP
10-28-2010, 12:14 AM
ttt

lldiesel386ll
10-28-2010, 05:04 AM
wait... did you end up just buying what madlorglk listed, minus the blocking ring? how did all that work out for you?

i did this well over two years ago, not using the first part that madlorglk listed without any troubles :thumbu: i believe i mentioned that there is a thread on the elementownersclub forum that was very useful in putting this all together already, along with a pictorial how to on k20a.org :shrug:

AKEP
10-29-2010, 07:31 AM
i've been trying to get you to chime in for days. lol

that element page, i remember having better info then it does now....

edit: fuggin found it!

http://www.elementownersclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25635&highlight=tsx+6th+gear

MugenReplica
10-29-2010, 07:41 AM
Another possibly helpful link with pics of the process......

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0507ht_honda_civic_si_gearbox/index.html

AKEP
11-01-2010, 05:10 PM
that went nowhere, dead linky?

usedep3
11-01-2010, 08:06 PM
works for me

AKEP
11-02-2010, 05:42 AM
got it. it only loaded the background at home, but the whole page at work...weird.

good post though. ill try to save it when i get home.

is it possible for one of the mods to put all the links in here on the first page with titles? please?

AKEP
11-13-2010, 06:07 AM
about to buy all this and an LSD today...

23491-ras-000
23590-ras-a00
23916-pns-000
24201-ras-000
24240-pns-000
24430-pns-000
900111-ppp-000
91103-ras-003
23444-ppt-315
90017-ppp-000 x10 piece
41312-ppp-000

$535.59

would like the part number for the syncro spring..

$455 for OBX LSD + $32 for new washers/bolts.

-_- money...

its been 10 days and Del Ray Acura still hasnt sent my shit. same as the LSD.

AKEP
11-28-2010, 05:26 AM
Updates on my progress are at http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?60207-AKEP-s-Transmission-Rebuild

TheKone
11-28-2010, 11:17 PM
Could one just change the 5th gear out for the tsx 6th gear therefore not needing any additional parts except for the input and output gears themselves? I am happy with the gear ratios of the first 4 gears on my ep3 but would enjoy better highway mileage.

AKEP
11-29-2010, 07:36 AM
something tells me no, and i think it was asked before on the pre '08 crash.

but right now, i don't see why that wouldn't work. the gears stay on the same shaft respectively, just the helical gearing would be backwards, again, idk if that even matters...

TheKone
11-30-2010, 12:12 PM
something tells me no, and i think it was asked before on the pre '08 crash.

but right now, i don't see why that wouldn't work. the gears stay on the same shaft respectively, just the helical gearing would be backwards, again, idk if that even matters...

If anyone knows for sure please let me know as I need to do a tranny overhaul in the next couple months and would like to address the shity highway rpm issue. Has anyone tried the 5th gear out of a 08+ accord 5 speed on the a3? It has an even lower ratio than the tsx 6th gear.

AKEP
11-30-2010, 06:04 PM
lol, wish i saw that sooner, but i dont feel so bad as its only taller by .004

you should try it, its a 5th gear too, so that sounds like a better idea than putting a 6th gear in that spot.

TheKone
11-30-2010, 07:23 PM
Well assuming the k series tranny table posted in this section is correct the difference is actually .012 but I'm sure that is still negligable. I think I will try it when I do my tranny. I'm assuming that all k tranny gears fit on all k tranny shafts. All I should need is the gear set and the synchros? The rest of the stock A3 tranny parts should work since it is still a 5 speed right?

AKEP
11-30-2010, 08:08 PM
i have a bunch of parts just sitting in my lap (litterally) and i dont even think you need the sleeve set, you should be able to throw in the actual mainshaft gear and countershaft gear and it should work...

TheKone
12-03-2010, 11:30 AM
So I did a little math to figure out what my rpm drop would be at a given speed if I changed my 5th gear to the 08+ accord 5th gear. If we take the ep3 in stock form with stock size tires and a base of 3500rpm, I get 115km/h (71.46mph) car velocity. If I were to have the accord 5th gear in and we traveled at the same 115kmh (71.46mph) the rpm would be 3068rpm. That's a decent drop in rpm and should result in a fairly decent increase in fuel economy. If anyone cares I can do some calculations for 100km/h (62mph).

Deadphishy
12-03-2010, 12:45 PM
I'm actually going to relook at this for my car. The Accord 5th gear seems like a great idea. However i don't think the 4th to 5th shift is going to be very smooth. And having such a tall 5th might mean your going to need 4th gear more often. Someone should really look into this because if it's as simple as swapping out a few gears i'm doing it when i have to do my clutch this summer.

TheKone
12-03-2010, 02:52 PM
I'm actually going to relook at this for my car. The Accord 5th gear seems like a great idea. However i don't think the 4th to 5th shift is going to be very smooth. And having such a tall 5th might mean your going to need 4th gear more often. Someone should really look into this because if it's as simple as swapping out a few gears i'm doing it when i have to do my clutch this summer.

True you may have to use 4th more but if anyone travels at highway speeds frequently, the rpm drop should equate to better fuel economy. 3000rpm at 70mph still isnt an overly tall gear imo. I would love to see around 2500rpm around 70mph but thats not going to happen unless you change out the final drive and that would hurt all the other gears. The only question is will the accord 5th gear even fit. Thats what I will have to find out after christmas. If it works I should only need the main and counter shaft gears which should be less than $200 in parts.

Deadphishy
12-03-2010, 03:08 PM
That would be great. Let us know asap, i really want to do this. Specially if i put my k24 back in, then i'm going to have to put in a taller Final drive as well ;)

MadLorEP3
01-09-2011, 05:30 PM
about to buy all this and an LSD today...


23444-ppt-315
90017-ppp-000 x10 piece
41312-ppp-000



what are these part numbers for
Im finally gonna get this done this year...
these done seem related to the 6th gear addition right?

RHCP0801
01-09-2011, 09:08 PM
i was gonna do this but too much money just for a little gas savings

MadLorEP3
01-09-2011, 09:13 PM
i was gonna do this but too much money just for a little gas savings

Im not doin it for gas savings
I just need a 6th speed for my setup
also tnx for the kal bro
i got a dyno tune last night
numbers were so so
upgrading to turbo or rotrex real soon

powdbyrice
01-09-2011, 11:33 PM
i was gonna do this but too much money just for a little gas savings

i never got around to doing this when i had the ep. also, i got a new job with a shorter commute, so it became unnecessary.

RHCP0801
01-10-2011, 12:12 AM
Im not doin it for gas savings
I just need a 6th speed for my setup
also tnx for the kal bro
i got a dyno tune last night
numbers were so so
upgrading to turbo or rotrex real soon

no problem, what were numbers?

AKEP
01-10-2011, 02:34 AM
what are these part numbers for
Im finally gonna get this done this year...
these done seem related to the 6th gear addition right?

no, its relevant to the LSD. its the final drive bolts and a speedo gear, dont remember the other piece.

AKEP
02-26-2011, 07:36 PM
bump cause i keep looking for this thread lol.

i ended up getting this all done today. almost shit myself cause i thought i messed up.

thakid
02-27-2011, 04:16 AM
Ok so I know for sure. I buy everything listed in the op for the $456.31? And is lsd really worth it on a daily driver? Is the obx lsd any good? Thanks

heyvortek
02-27-2011, 04:23 AM
Ok so I know for sure. I buy everything listed in the op for the $456.31? And is lsd really worth it on a daily driver? Is the obx lsd any good? Thanks
if you have 300hp+. it really helps with tq steer. now if u drive like a grandma and dont race then its pretty worthless. obx is ok. i thnk the quality is not up to par with quaife. im sure someone will chime in on this

AKEP
02-28-2011, 03:09 AM
look for my transmission rebuild thread, i didn't finish it cause my hands were too dirty to take pictures, but theres a link to "bulletproof" the OBX LSD.

but yeah, you dont need the sleeve set for 5-6, IIRC theres already a syncro for 5-6, when i cracked mine open this weekend, im pretty sure i had one. all i did was add 6th, a new fork, and the shifter thing, everything thats NOT there. go read more before you get into it. theres alot of info i and others have found out. please read/research/search more.

heyvortek
02-28-2011, 03:23 AM
dont mean to thread jack but im thinking about getting the clubrsx 4.052 fd. got an 02 tranny. gonna be boosted. is it worth it and what else would i need besides the fd

AKEP
02-28-2011, 04:13 AM
coutnershaft - not really worth it to me unless your pushing like 500hp or want really good highway milage. its easy to change while your in there, you can pop all the gears off at the same time anyways.

heyvortek
02-28-2011, 05:06 AM
i am planning on 500hp :) this sounds perfect for me. its also my dd so it will be driven everywhere. what would i need for it?!

AKEP
02-28-2011, 05:30 AM
the countershaft has the final built in, then you need the ring gear on the differential to match it. all the gears will transfer over. its pretty simple, and you add about 10 mph to each gear or something. i thought about doing it but im only pushing 350ish when im done, so yeah, i didnt think it was worth the extra $200 for a countershaft.

tallblondkid
04-04-2011, 06:13 PM
Question:
there are two part numbers for tsx 6th gear, 23590-RAS-A00 and 23590-RAS-010... which is the proper one to buy for the ep3 conversion or whats the difference? thanks, i am ordering first thing in the morning so need answer quickly, thanks

dyeownsme
04-25-2011, 10:30 PM
Who has done this? On a stock EP?

Any how-tos?

tallblondkid
05-01-2011, 11:28 AM
i just did it about a month ago... its not hard, but i did it in my shop with unlimited resources. just read alot and order off the correct parts lists. there are how-tos out there tho.

AKEP
05-04-2011, 05:04 AM
the how to is like on page 3 or something thers a few resources here that will give u all the info. look harder. honestly after u take the guts out u can just pop the 6th gear on and stack the forks and its good to go.

idk what you mean by stock, it doesn't really matter, this mod doesn't make you faster or slower. it lowers your driving rpm on the highway (by adding a longer 6th gear that we dont have)

mp_02si
09-04-2011, 05:25 PM
bumping this thread cause i was curious to see if anyone ever found out if the 08+ accord 5th gear would interchange with our 5th?

AKEP
09-04-2011, 06:34 PM
i'm like 95% sure it does, and if you got all the 6th gear pieces you could just make a really good 6th gear after the 5th.

Ba82Ep3
09-04-2011, 06:48 PM
As long as the synchro is the same type (2 cone VS 3 cone) then it should work in either the 5th or 6th gear position.

mp_02si
09-05-2011, 06:44 AM
Cool thanks for all the info. I work at Honda so I just checked the part numbers for the cones and they are the same part number between the ep 5 spd and the accord. So that means it should fit 100% no problems.

lemonhead228
09-07-2011, 06:41 AM
Man I thought that tsx package deal they sell on clubep3 is all I need cuz that's what they said.. I guess Ima have to do more research before I do it. Hopefully it isn't to hard to do

AKEP
09-07-2011, 07:09 AM
As long as the synchro is the same type (2 cone VS 3 cone) then it should work in either the 5th or 6th gear position.

all synchros after 1-2 are the same. and i thought they were all single cone? i know 1-2 are triple coned...

or are they called that?


Man I thought that tsx package deal they sell on clubep3 is all I need cuz that's what they said.. I guess Ima have to do more research before I do it. Hopefully it isn't to hard to do

its only if you already had a 6 speed. just $200 more and y ou can convert the 5spd to a 6spd like me =] its pretty sweet...

Ba82Ep3
09-07-2011, 09:14 AM
all synchros after 1-2 are the same. and i thought they were all single cone? i know 1-2 are triple coned...

or are they called that?

Thats a good question, one i havent seen answered as of yet. In my CSX.pdf (Canadian k20z3 trans) they show a triple cone for 1-4 and then call a double cone for 5-6. Funny thing is the double cone looks just like the EP's syncs (what we commonly call a single cone). So, are they including the cone that is part of the gear in that case?

My thinking is... the synchro is a separate assembly from the gear... so a triple cone synchro has 3 pieces to it (not including the spring ring). If thats the case... then 3-5 are single cone, since there is only one piece to the sync. Thats partially my bad for not going into that a little more... but i figured most people wouldnt read all that typing anyways. lol

So i guess its open to interpretation until someone can definitively answer that question... but the pdf manuals are inconsistent from model to model.

03 inspire
09-07-2011, 01:54 PM
AK wanna show me how to rebuild one :) and where can i find a OBX lsd

lemonhead228
09-08-2011, 01:58 PM
You know much would it cost to convert the a3 to a six speed? I'm doing the labor myself.


its only if you already had a 6 speed. just $200 more and y ou can convert the 5spd to a 6spd like me =] its pretty sweet...

mr-alternative
09-10-2011, 02:45 AM
Dont want to start a thread:


I have a 2003 Civic Type R, which had a totaled title by insurance and was parted out.

Bought it and rebuild it as a track-car.

I have got the K20A2 installed with a 5 speed Civic Type S tranny, its the NRE3 tranny, should be the same to your ones.

Have done a test drive yesterday and saw thats fully rubbish at the moment for a track car.

All gears have got a too high gaer ratio ( 4th and 5 th seems to be similar to the NPQ3 6speed tranny).

At the moment i have gear ratio resulting followong maximum speed in gears:

1st gear: 70 kph
2nd gear: 130 kph
3nd gear: 170 kph
4nd gear: 210 kph

would be better with following:

1st: 45 kph
2nd: 90 kph
3nd: 130 kph
4nd: 170 kph
5nd: 210 kph

Have got anyone ideas how to change that or may have done such a conversion?

Ba82Ep3
09-10-2011, 03:25 AM
Assuming you have a 4.7FD, you could switch that to a 5.0FD. But if you have a 4.3FD then a 4.7FD would be the easiest to do (and cheapest).

The RSXS 6 speed is 4.3FD
The EP 5 speed is 4.7FD
The JDM CRV is 5.0FD... or aftermarket

You mentioned a TYPE-S 5 speed tranny... so im a little confused there.

Otherwise you need to track down an ITR/CTR trans for the gears... which can be the costlier option....

mr-alternative
09-10-2011, 06:40 AM
Had a look to the specifications:

tranny code is NRF5 and got followong gear ratios:

1st: 3,266
2nd:1,769
3th:1,212
4th:0,972
5th:0,780

Final drive: 4,388

This results a top speed at 8000 rpm:

1st: 64 kph
2nd: 118kph
3th: 173 kph
4th: 216 kph
5th: 269 kph (gear ratio is way too long, in real 240kph speedo reading)

I have done some research and found out that a 5,0 Final drive would bring following result:

1st: 56 kph @ 8000rpm shifting to second gear about 4300rpm
2nd: 104 kpg @ 8000rpm shifting to 3d gear about 5500 rpm
3d: 152 kph @ 8000rpm shifting to 4th gear about 6400 rpm
4th: 189 kph @ 8000rpm shifting to 5 th gear abotu 6400 rpm
5th: speed at 8000rpm 236kph

So the gear ratio with a 5,0 Final drive would be ok and shifting would bring the engine RPM near to VTEC engagment point or into VTEC timing.

Now i need OEM part no.s for such a final drive or aftermarket ones.

Saw a OBX one at ebay.com, will that stuff work or is it trash?

After brands also welcome, so please tell me these.

Ba82Ep3
09-10-2011, 10:16 AM
You can look on ClubRSX for some info there. The only place I know other than that is a stateside Honda dealer named AutoFair Honda. They are a vendor on k20a.org. The OEM 5.07FD has the ring gear, countershaft, and lower bearing as a package for $450 shipped.

The 4.7 would be much cheaper since you can source it from a US spec EP 5 speed. You can also find them used for sale for a lot cheaper than $450. For instance, I have a 4.7FD left over after rebuilding my trans. They usually go for 100 to 150 depending on mileage

mr-alternative
09-10-2011, 11:49 AM
What a nonsence Honda has done?

So they build a 5speed tranny with 4,7 final for US Market which is powered by a K20A3 and for europe's 5 door model with k20a3 the used a 4,3 final drive... such a nonsense.

Plus the Civic Type R also got a 4,7 final.

@Ba82Ep3, PM me for pics and price for the 4,7 final you have got, please.

lldiesel386ll
09-10-2011, 02:16 PM
didnt check into the gear ratios, but a 5 speed with a 4.3 makes me think that the civic type s transmission youre referring to is not very different from the base rsx transmission, andre :shrug:

AKEP
09-11-2011, 10:11 AM
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6395
http://www.zealautowerks.com/transcalc.php

jdm crv it is, also 07+ CTR.

get that crv 1st gear too,
02-04 type-s 2nd-4th
04-08 CL9 (USDM only?) TSX 5th gear
01-05 ITR 6th
07+ctr final

3.533
2.13
1.517
1.147
0.921
0.825
5.062fd

56kph or 35mph
93kph or 58mph
130kph or 82mph
174kph or 108mph
204kph or 128mph
241kph or 150mph
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7500/rsxvscustomgears.jpg
green is base rsx gearing, blue is this "custom" short gearing.

you're welcome.

ps. i don't know if that would all work fine and dandy with the shift forks, and god knows what, but im guessing its all the same, as long as you were using a ep3 (for 5 speed) or 02-04 type-s (for 6 speed) i don't see why it wouldn't drop in like a tsx 6th... i mean the rsx uses an ep3 5th gear for a 6th gear if you catch what im saying, it looks like it doesn't matter what goes where as far as gears are concerned.

mr-alternative
09-11-2011, 10:52 AM
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6395
http://www.zealautowerks.com/transcalc.php

jdm crv it is, also 07+ CTR.

get that crv 1st gear too,
02-04 type-s 2nd-4th
04-08 CL9 (USDM only?) TSX 5th gear
01-05 ITR 6th
07+ctr final

3.533
2.13
1.517
1.147
0.921
0.825
5.062fd

56kph or 35mph
93kph or 58mph
130kph or 82mph
174kph or 108mph
204kph or 128mph
241kph or 150mph
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7500/rsxvscustomgears.jpg
green is base rsx gearing, blue is this "custom" short gearing.

you're welcome.

ps. i don't know if that would all work fine and dandy with the shift forks, and god knows what, but im guessing its all the same, as long as you were using a ep3 (for 5 speed) or 02-04 type-s (for 6 speed) i don't see why it wouldn't drop in like a tsx 6th... i mean the rsx uses an ep3 5th gear for a 6th gear if you catch what im saying, it looks like it doesn't matter what goes where as far as gears are concerned.

NRK5 tranny which habve got some other gear ratio:

1st: 3,266
2nd: 1,769
3d: 1,212
4th: 0,972
5th: 0,78

Final drive: 4,388

This final drive causes very long gears in combination with a K20A2 engine.
Referring to the k20a.org gear ratio graphic the tranny has got exactly the 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th gear from the JDM CTR 6 speed tranny, which is also shorter.

Thats why i'm thinkng about usinf just a stock 4,7 final drive or a 5,07 JDm final or obx racing / skunk.
i'm thinking about replace the second gear and install a normal CTR 2nd and 3th gear plus take the exisitng ones for a 4th, 5th and th gear.

The car should be used for track-days at different raceways, but pereferly the setup should be good for Nurburgring raceway.
This raceway needs a short tranny so VTEC is engaged nearly all time for fast laps.

Ba82Ep3
09-11-2011, 04:30 PM
1st and 2nd are part of the mainshaft... so you will have to get the matching mainshaft for the 1st and 2nd countershaft ratio you choose.

So, mainshaft follows countershaft 1st and 2nd.

Ring gear follows countershaft.

You cannot mix triple cone synchro gear sets with gears that have less synchro cones. For instance, you CANT use an ITR 3rd and EP 4th as 3rd and 4th on the same mainshaft (countershaft 3-6 gears are interchangeable though). The design of the synchro hub, the gear, and the synchro itself wont allow the mix. It will physically fit, but it moves the remaining gears up the mainshaft (increased tolerance), and offsets the synchro sleeve in relation to its shift fork.

You CAN use two of the same in the same gear set. For instance you CAN use EP 3rd and 4th as 3rd or 4th, and then ITR 5th and 6th as 5th and 6th. EP gears have the same sync types, and ITR gears have the same sync types. But, why would you want a single or double synchro cone on 3rd and 4th gears if its a track car? Triple cone is your best bet.

If you cant find OEM ratios you want within the same synchro type (1/2 and 3/4 and 5/6), then your other option is a custom gearset. I have a feeling after you look at THAT pricetag... adding a 4.7 or 5.07FD to your existing trans sounds like a much better option.

AKEP
09-11-2011, 11:15 PM
yeah that. i knew i was missing somthing. lol. i don't remember my 1st/2nd being apart of the shaft? i stripped both down to just the shaft, the only gear being the small one for the ring gear...

Ba82Ep3
09-12-2011, 06:08 AM
1st reverse and 2nd (in that order) are part of the MAINshaft. If you change 1st or 2nd on the countershaft, you have to have the matching mainshaft for those two gears.

So if you want CTR/ITR/FG/FA 1st and 2nd gear ratios, you have to have the matching mainshaft and the 1st and 2nd gears for the countershaft.

mr-alternative
09-12-2011, 10:20 AM
OK, so that understand that it wouldnt work with exchange.

so will i do just a FD change, maybe exchange the differential with doing the job, plus eventually getting some Acura TSX 5 th gear.

have seen clubrsx sells the hole upgrade package.

AKEP
09-13-2011, 09:33 AM
so what i think i'm seeing is that its only 1st gear thats part of the mainshaft, which doesn't drive the final gear, so it looks like you could get the jdm crv mainshaft and countershaft and ring gear, then put those other gears on and it sounds like it would work?

i keep looking at it, im like 99.9% sure it would work...

Ba82Ep3
09-13-2011, 12:02 PM
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?66126-New-TRANS-Thread...-DONT-POST-YET!
^^^
This might help out some. The thread is not finished yet and is pic intensive, but will point you in the right direction.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n562/dwms73/408662338_photobucket_45289_.jpg

The mainshaft has 1st, reverse, and 2nd gear on it (shaft to the right in the pic). The countershaft has only one gear on it for the FD ring gear.

03 inspire
09-16-2011, 10:46 AM
ok heres another question since i dont think its been mentioned on here for the boost guys so does all the same parts apply if you have a DC5 base 5 speed?

Ba82Ep3
09-20-2011, 11:18 AM
To add the 6th gearset? Yes.

I decided to mic out 5 and 6 speed forks again... to see where the variation i ran across before came from. I ran across no difference in the fork placement on the fork shaft between the two. Since the detent balls are in the same place of either trans, then either type of synchro'd gear should fit the main/counter shafts.

I dont wanna get too deep into it here... but im curious now why i had the large variance when i tried to mix match both types of sync gears. Its gotta be in the sync hub. Ill update the trans thread once i get it all panned out.

lemonhead228
09-28-2011, 06:51 PM
So to convert my a3 tranny to a 6sp all I need is this kit

http://www.clubrsx.com/clubep3/HON-5SP-2-6SP.html

Her-Name's-Ally
06-04-2012, 06:55 AM
So to convert my a3 tranny to a 6sp all I need is this kit

http://www.clubrsx.com/clubep3/HON-5SP-2-6SP.html

Thread Revive, Do you need Kpro for this??

dkid15
06-26-2012, 04:21 PM
^^Yes that kit includes everything you need as long as you remember to notch the shifter box.

^ I wouldn't think so. Why do you think you would?

lemonhead228
07-14-2012, 02:32 PM
Thread Revive, Do you need Kpro for this??

You don't need kpro. It's just gearing, not messing with anything else

Her-Name's-Ally
07-14-2012, 02:34 PM
You don't need kpro. It's just gearing, not messing with anything else

stupid question. But I got it. wonder how much someone would charge to do all this. People keep recommending an a2 tranny but from my understanding it the same final drive so no point. But this seems to be the economical route

lemonhead228
07-15-2012, 01:42 AM
stupid question. But I got it. wonder how much someone would charge to do all this. People keep recommending an a2 tranny but from my understanding it the same final drive so no point. But this seems to be the economical route

I'm not sure how much they charge for labor cuz I work on it myself but I'm guessing tranny work maybe 500+. Not sure, pretty sure somebody can help out on that. The a2trans has shorter gears so faster acceleration. I read people that did the a2tranny with the a3 are very happy with the results stating that it pulls way better. The economical route is putting the tsx6 in with the a3. Since the ep trans already have long gears, adding the tsx6 will make the rpm even lower and would save alot of gas cruising 40+ mph.

Her-Name's-Ally
07-15-2012, 04:27 AM
I'm not sure how much they charge for labor cuz I work on it myself but I'm guessing tranny work maybe 500+. Not sure, pretty sure somebody can help out on that. The a2trans has shorter gears so faster acceleration. I read people that did the a2tranny with the a3 are very happy with the results stating that it pulls way better. The economical route is putting the tsx6 in with the a3. Since the ep trans already have long gears, adding the tsx6 will make the rpm even lower and would save alot of gas cruising 40+ mph.

That was my understanding heard 80mph was like 2k rpms on the freeway. and there is a nice leep in mpg. Pays for itself if you drive as much as I do.

Ok last question I checked the part list and do I need this for just the 6th gear? 23626-PNS-315 SLEEVE SET, SYNCHRONIZER (5-6)

dkid15
08-10-2012, 07:57 PM
That was my understanding heard 80mph was like 2k rpms on the freeway. and there is a nice leep in mpg. Pays for itself if you drive as much as I do.

Ok last question I checked the part list and do I need this for just the 6th gear? 23626-PNS-315 SLEEVE SET, SYNCHRONIZER (5-6)

Everything you need is in the kit. 80mpg is like 3300rpm with my 15 inch wheels still much better than before. The 06+ si trans has the tsx 6th and ep3 final drive i believe. If you cant do the work yourself then this would be a good option with the speed converter. You get that lsd tooo!!

Her-Name's-Ally
08-10-2012, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the info/ advise. Will look into :thumbu:

Almost Fast
08-10-2012, 09:35 PM
Ok i hope all of this helps.

First off. A lot of people seem to forget that you need to convert your shifter mechanism to a 6 speed or to save a few bucks when adding a sixth gear to remove the mechanical rev lockout in our a3 trans. Either way or else you run into not being abke to shift directly from 5-6.

I do my own trans work now but initially when i had someone else do this it ran $300 so if that helps.

Depending on your setup and if you do a lot of hwy driving you might want to check out a fd swap as well. I went with the 4.3 over our stock 4.7. Hoping it will even better help with hwy mileage. (Have not put motor or trans back in yet to see just how much). @80 mph with just adding the tsx 6th i went from 4k rpms to 3650-3700.
Just something I figured I would share.

poeticfinesse21
08-11-2012, 12:30 AM
stupid question. But I got it. wonder how much someone would charge to do all this. People keep recommending an a2 tranny but from my understanding it the same final drive so no point. But this seems to be the economical route

EP3 trans has a 4.7 final drive, 02-04 RSX-S has a 4.3 final drive. EP3 trans 4th and 5th gear is the same as RSX-S trans 5th and 6th gear (.921 and .738 gear ratios, respectively) but since the final drive is different, when an EP3 is going 60 mph in 5th gear (.738 ratio), it's at 2750 rpms. EP3 trans with TSX 6th gear (.659 gear ratio) will be at 2450 rpms when doing 60 mph. 02-04 RSX-S going 60 mph in 6th gear (.738 ratio) is at 2500 rpms so getting a K20A2 trans would give you almost the same benefits as adding a TSX 6th to your EP trans. I used to be interested in adding the 6th gear to my EP trans but the most economical route would be getting a 02-04 RSX-S trans and switching the 6th gear for a TSX 6th, 60 mph would be at 2250 rpms :meek: I got all this from a gear ratio calculator so it should be pretty exact but don't forget that tire size also plays a role. This is all based on 225/45/17 tires which is almost exactly the same diameter as 205/55/16 tires which is stock tire size on 04-05 EP3 and all 02-04 RSX.

On a side note, EP3 and all years RSX base have the same gear ratios, the only difference is the final drive. EP3 has 4.7, RSX base has 4.3 final drive. 02-04 RSX-S and 05-06 RSX-S also share the same gear ratios but 02-04 has the 4.3 while 05-06 came with 4.7 final drive.

Almost Fast
08-11-2012, 03:27 AM
It might end up more expensive going type s. One, you need new flywheel and clutch. 2. Possability of getting a bad trans imo.

poeticfinesse21
08-11-2012, 08:29 AM
It might end up more expensive going type s. One, you need new flywheel and clutch. 2. Possability of getting a bad trans imo.

You do not need a new flywheel/clutch unless your clutch is already fucked. K-series clutches are not transmission specific, they are flywheel specific. You can use a K20A3 clutch on a K20A2 trans but you also need to use a K20A3 flywheel and you can use a K20A2 clutch on a K20A3 trans but you'll need a K20A2 flywheel. The difference is in the way the pressure plate bolts on to the flywheel, it all mounts into the trans the same. As far as possibly getting a bad trans, you're right. Buying a used trans is a risk unless you actually drive on it before you buy it. Best you can do is buy from someone you trust or makes sure it comes with at least a 30 day warranty. What I plan to do eventually is get a rebuilt K20A2 trans from here:
http://www.kmodperformance.com/K-Series--TRANSMISSION.html
$1900 minus $600 core charge for your 5-speed = $1300 for a freshly rebuilt trans. The TSX 6th gear already comes installed at no extra charge and if you have the extra cash, they'll throw a LSD in there for you :biggrin1:

Almost Fast
08-11-2012, 09:18 AM
Yeah, I remember seeing that link on the other tranny rebuild thread. I always get a little mixed up on when you need the a2 flywheel so my bad there. But 600 give or take is still cheaper than 1300 imo w/ just adding and buying the 6th gear. espec if you had no issues before with your trans. My outlook on it though.

poeticfinesse21
08-11-2012, 09:22 AM
Yeah, I remember seeing that link on the other tranny rebuild thread. I always get a little mixed up on when you need the a2 flywheel so my bad there. But 600 give or take is still cheaper than 1300 imo w/ just adding and buying the 6th gear. espec if you had no issues before with your trans. My outlook on it though.

This is true but my trans has 178k on it and although I've had zero issues with it, by the time I have the money for this, I'd rather have a rebuilt trans.

Ba82Ep3
08-11-2012, 03:06 PM
Some aftermarket clutches that are listed as a2 spec, will also fit a3 flywheels. The CM stg4 4 puck i had would fit either flywheel...

Almost Fast
08-11-2012, 03:37 PM
Poetic, I wasnt arguing. Just stating my opinion is all.

poeticfinesse21
08-11-2012, 03:50 PM
Poetic, I wasnt arguing. Just stating my opinion is all.

No arguement man, just stating my opinion too :thumbu:

lemonhead228
09-26-2012, 09:57 AM
EP3 trans has a 4.7 final drive, 02-04 RSX-S has a 4.3 final drive. EP3 trans 4th and 5th gear is the same as RSX-S trans 5th and 6th gear (.921 and .738 gear ratios, respectively) but since the final drive is different, when an EP3 is going 60 mph in 5th gear (.738 ratio), it's at 2750 rpms. EP3 trans with TSX 6th gear (.659 gear ratio) will be at 2450 rpms when doing 60 mph. 02-04 RSX-S going 60 mph in 6th gear (.738 ratio) is at 2500 rpms so getting a K20A2 trans would give you almost the same benefits as adding a TSX 6th to your EP trans. I used to be interested in adding the 6th gear to my EP trans but the most economical route would be getting a 02-04 RSX-S trans and switching the 6th gear for a TSX 6th, 60 mph would be at 2250 rpms :meek: I got all this from a gear ratio calculator so it should be pretty exact but don't forget that tire size also plays a role. This is all based on 225/45/17 tires which is almost exactly the same diameter as 205/55/16 tires which is stock tire size on 04-05 EP3 and all 02-04 RSX.

On a side note, EP3 and all years RSX base have the same gear ratios, the only difference is the final drive. EP3 has 4.7, RSX base has 4.3 final drive. 02-04 RSX-S and 05-06 RSX-S also share the same gear ratios but 02-04 has the 4.3 while 05-06 came with 4.7 final drive.


if thats the case, im about to get an 03 dc5-s tranny and put my ep3 fd in and maybe add an tsx 5th and 6th gear

poeticfinesse21
09-26-2012, 12:37 PM
if thats the case, im about to get an 03 dc5-s tranny and put my ep3 fd in and maybe add an tsx 5th and 6th gear

If you're gonna do that then you might as well get a 06+ civic si trans and swap the guts into your EP3 trans case. Same gear ratios as RSX-S, same 6th gear as a TSX, 4.7 final drive....oh and don't forget the factory LSD :mbiggrin:

lemonhead228
10-12-2012, 09:54 AM
If you're gonna do that then you might as well get a 06+ civic si trans and swap the guts into your EP3 trans case. Same gear ratios as RSX-S, same 6th gear as a TSX, 4.7 final drive....oh and don't forget the factory LSD :mbiggrin:

Haha those trans are to pricy. I got a deal on the a2 trans for 350 :P

Just gonna swap fd for now