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View Full Version : K24a1 turbo Kal ( get me started )



MR.Pizza
05-03-2008, 11:42 PM
Hey guys, the k24 is almost installed and finished. It's been alot of fun and a great learning experience but I'm exhausted. I need a little help getting something together to get the car running. My tuning skills are weak however I have read all the Hondata notes and watched all the videos. I just don't trust myself making anything but minor adjustments.

Engine Mods:
Kpro (duh)
k24a1
Turbo a/r 63 a/r 50
revhard log style mani
Tial 38mm w/g
Type rs bov
Greddy i/c
Rbc Intake/hondata img
rc750cc
Apexi avcr type r
2.5" downpipe
Megan testpipe
Evo2 cat back

Jpax
05-04-2008, 10:22 AM
Whitch ecu do you have kpro? and how much boost you running?

MR.Pizza
05-04-2008, 11:27 AM
Whitch ecu do you have kpro? and how much boost you running?

I'm using my kpro'd a3 ecu, I was planning on just starting with 8psi ( that's what my boost controller is set too. However when I can I'd like to get it too 12psi. I do have a walboro and a gm 3bar but they're not installed. I can put them in but last time I tried I failed horribly at getting my fuel correct.

shadowmd
05-04-2008, 03:44 PM
awesome bro!!! can't wait to see this running! i wanna see a vid of that turbo in action!!!

MR.Pizza
05-04-2008, 09:05 PM
Thanks bro, I sure will as soon as I get it all finished. I just need a basic kal to start with. By the way the turbo fit perfect, problem is the rbc looks like it's gonna stick out of the hood and is binding the core support.

MR.Pizza
05-04-2008, 10:41 PM
374

What do you guys think, safe to start with? Jpax?

shadowmd
05-05-2008, 04:31 AM
Thanks bro, I sure will as soon as I get it all finished. I just need a basic kal to start with. By the way the turbo fit perfect, problem is the rbc looks like it's gonna stick out of the hood and is binding the core support.

yea u might need to notch the underside of the hood to make it fit along with some of the core support. pretty easy tho (the core support part that is) (since the a2 isn't as tall, i didnt have to mod the hood) but my friend did a k24a2 swap and he had to notch the hood and it didnt seem like he had much of an issue

davisj3537
05-05-2008, 07:16 AM
I posted a cal in here. Not sure if it will be better than what you already posted but here it is anyway.
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44703

MR.Pizza
05-05-2008, 07:43 AM
I posted a cal in here. Not sure if it will be better than what you already posted but here it is anyway.
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44703

Thanks Davisj3537, I'll give it a try. Hookin it up.:kiss:

By the way how should I make adjustments for an rbc?

davisj3537
05-05-2008, 07:47 AM
Thanks Davisj3537, I'll give it a try. Hookin it up.:kiss:

By the way how should I make adjustments for an rbc?

Well if you are running 8lbs and I was running 10lbs then I would say you prob wont need to adjust too much. I also got tuned and it was 50 degrees outside so it took alot of fuel. BTW that tune is with a gm 3 bar.

MR.Pizza
05-05-2008, 08:05 AM
Well if you are running 8lbs and I was running 10lbs then I would say you prob wont need to adjust too much. I also got tuned and it was 50 degrees outside so it took alot of fuel. BTW that tune is with a gm 3 bar.

Oh cool, I'll put my gm 3bar on then. I just never had any luck tuning with a gm 3bar on my own.

davisj3537
05-05-2008, 08:07 AM
Oh cool, I'll put my gm 3bar on then. I just never had any luck tuning with a gm 3bar on my own.

Really? I didn't find it to be any different than the stock map sensor when it came to tuning but that was a long time ago...maybe I forgot.

shadowmd
05-05-2008, 09:37 AM
in for vids :msmile:

Jpax
05-05-2008, 04:15 PM
I posted a cal in here. Not sure if it will be better than what you already posted but here it is anyway.
http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44703


This looks liek it should work just adjust it for your setup.

the one you posted looks like an A3 map with different cc injectors i just skimmed it over.

MR.Pizza
05-06-2008, 08:19 AM
This looks liek it should work just adjust it for your setup.

the one you posted looks like an A3 map with different cc injectors i just skimmed it over.

Yes, the one I posted was just a a3 map with 15% fuel trim and changed to my injectors.

shadowmd
05-06-2008, 09:35 AM
i wanna see some pics :mangel:

MR.Pizza
05-06-2008, 11:39 AM
Yes, the one I posted was just a a3 map with 15% fuel trim and changed to my injectors.

Ok, I'll post some up tonight :love:, I've just been so exhausted since I've done the entire swap by myself. Worked on it till 6am this morning when I realized I could no longer be trusted think.:wacko:

MR.Pizza
05-06-2008, 11:21 PM
Awesome, car started right up first try. Sounds good, I'll do some datalogs tomorrow and post them up. Hopefully someone here can let me know how it looks.:mbiggrin:

shadowmd
05-07-2008, 04:34 AM
vids vids vids vids vids!!!!!! i wanna see this turbo setup in action!!!!

MR.Pizza
05-07-2008, 07:45 PM
vids vids vids vids vids!!!!!! i wanna see this turbo setup in action!!!!

You got it man.

Car runs ok but really needs some work.

shadowmd
05-07-2008, 07:47 PM
nice

MR.Pizza
05-10-2008, 07:13 PM
Ok guys I really need some help desperately. My car is not running very well and I'm so frustrated I just wana part it out and sell it OMG. It seems like it's ballz slow and even when I hear it boosting the car goes no where. I'm scared to drive it and I'm just so damn exhausted at this point. I spent 5 days non stop installing this engine and turbo kit with little to no sleep and nothing but saved ep hatch diy's luckly I had saved precrash. All the helpful tuning threads that used to be searchable are history. Now I've been babying it from one shop to the next but it still doesn't seem right. Sorry for the rant but I'm just exhausted and out of answers. :violin:

davisj3537
05-10-2008, 07:36 PM
What exactly are you needing help with and what are your symptoms sir?

MR.Pizza
05-10-2008, 08:01 PM
What exactly are you needing help with and what are your symptoms sir?

Well the car seems like it's not making any power. I can hear the turbo and see the boost climb. None of the couplers is blown off and it just feels weak. My a3 and greedy made more power. I had it on a dyno last night and it only made 220hp. I'm not really sure if anything I'm doing to kpro is helping.

MR.Pizza
05-10-2008, 08:15 PM
here is what I'm working with.444

MR.Pizza
05-10-2008, 09:20 PM
Well I noticed the tune had my vtec set to 4700, :mconfused:

squeak04si
05-11-2008, 09:43 AM
Well the car seems like it's not making any power. I can hear the turbo and see the boost climb. None of the couplers is blown off and it just feels weak. My a3 and greedy made more power. I had it on a dyno last night and it only made 220hp. I'm not really sure if anything I'm doing to kpro is helping.

you sure the turbo is going out or you have a real bad exhaust leak close to the turbo.

shadowmd
05-11-2008, 09:51 AM
got a question. did u reuse the bolts i had on the turbo/mani (the bolts that i use to connect the two?) i didnt have the right size bolt so i used nuts as like washers. i only used those to mock it up. maybe if u used the the same bolts/nuts the i had on there is causing an exhaust leak? but it also sounds like u need a good tune. a tune makes a HUGE! difference but i sure u kno that

MR.Pizza
05-11-2008, 11:43 AM
you sure the turbo is going out or you have a real bad exhaust leak close to the turbo.

I might have but I checked everything and everything seems to be tight.


got a question. did u reuse the bolts i had on the turbo/mani (the bolts that i use to connect the two?) i didnt have the right size bolt so i used nuts as like washers. i only used those to mock it up. maybe if u used the the same bolts/nuts the i had on there is causing an exhaust leak? but it also sounds like u need a good tune. a tune makes a HUGE! difference but i sure u kno that

Yeah I reused those bolts but it didn't seem like they were a problem. The engine exhaust gets really loud I thought it was the waste gate but maybe its a leak I just can't find it..... Yeah the tune tune tune... I already blew my tuning money and it didn't turn out so well. I'm gonna suck it up and try my hand at lambda overlay when it gets dry out. Also the enjo motor mounts I think are to agressive and I'll probably swap my stocks with inserts back.

Does anyone know where my turbo should be spooled up at?

squeak04si
05-11-2008, 11:55 AM
greddy kit on a k24a1 right? should spool very fast, like 3500. did you use the k24a1 exhuast manifold gasket or the a3 one? you ned to run the k24 one to match the ports in the head since they are bigger than the ports in the a3 head.

the turbo is building bost but not making any power is a good sign of bad turbo or boost/vaccuum leaks.

dobbs02si
05-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Barrys got a greddy kit, maybe he will chime in.

MR.Pizza
05-11-2008, 02:41 PM
greddy kit on a k24a1 right? should spool very fast, like 3500. did you use the k24a1 exhuast manifold gasket or the a3 one? you ned to run the k24 one to match the ports in the head since they are bigger than the ports in the a3 head.

the turbo is building bost but not making any power is a good sign of bad turbo or boost/vaccuum leaks.
It's actually a t3/t4 garret a/r 63 a/r 50, but i'm thinking about putting the greddy kit and seeing if it runs better, I'll pull the manifold off and check the gasket though. Maybe thats what I did, but I'm pretty sure I ran the a1 gasket.

Barrys got a greddy kit, maybe he will chime in.

Thanks guys for the help.

sidriverep3
05-12-2008, 07:56 AM
dont use the stock motor mounts....they wont handle the torque fromthe k24.

sounds like an exhaust leak...replace the manifold gasket with a k24 one, and get new bolts, even if they are tight, they could be too long and be bottoming out. when i lost a lot of power i checked the manifold bolts, and 1 was missing, 2 were loose, and 1 was stripped, it made a huge difference in power, but it still boosted and all.

also, make sure the wastegate has a gasket on it, they leak without them.

where are u located?

adam

MR.Pizza
05-12-2008, 08:25 AM
dont use the stock motor mounts....they wont handle the torque fromthe k24.

sounds like an exhaust leak...replace the manifold gasket with a k24 one, and get new bolts, even if they are tight, they could be too long and be bottoming out. when i lost a lot of power i checked the manifold bolts, and 1 was missing, 2 were loose, and 1 was stripped, it made a huge difference in power, but it still boosted and all.

also, make sure the wastegate has a gasket on it, they leak without them.

where are u located?

adam

Alright I'll leave the enjo's, good point. Just I haven't felt any torque yet. I'll take the entire turbo off today and replace the gaskets cause I think your probably right. I'm getting alot of exhaust like noise in the engine bay but I just can't tell if thats just the way it sounds or what. i think it may be the waste gate but I'm sure I put a gasket in it. I'm in Mt. Clemens Michigan, detroit area.

shadowmd
05-12-2008, 09:14 AM
GOOD LUCK MAN! i wanna see this thing in action! :mcool:

davisj3537
05-12-2008, 09:36 AM
That turbo should be spooling to full boost at 2500rpms at the latest.

MR.Pizza
05-12-2008, 12:40 PM
Found a leak where the down pipe and testpipe meet, I don't think it was bad but could this have an effect on anything since it's way past the turbo? All the other gaskets were tight, I might just throw the greddy kit on and see how it runs.

Jpax
05-12-2008, 02:27 PM
how much boost are you runing?

looks like @ 8psi your running 10~ 13 degrees of ignition, if you can raise that to 15 that would help, if the motor respones with out knocking.

if your using the k24A1 why is your Vtec set to 4700?
Turn on your 02 sensors if you have them installed.
Is the car jerking under part thottle?

you can take out the 17.2 in the 2nd gear comenstation

MR.Pizza
05-12-2008, 03:39 PM
how much boost are you runing?

looks like @ 8psi your running 10~ 13 degrees of ignition, if you can raise that to 15 that would help, if the motor respones with out knocking.

if your using the k24A1 why is your Vtec set to 4700?
Turn on your 02 sensors if you have them installed.
Is the car jerking under part thottle?

you can take out the 17.2 in the 2nd gear comenstation

Ok I'll switch the timing and datalog, yeah the shop I sent it too set the vtec to 4800 which I changed already. Looks like he attempted to tune the fuel in closed loop as well, ugg. The secondary o2 was turned off because we installed a wideband. Yeah and the car jerks bad during part throttle.
I'll disable the gear compensation as well,
Thanks for your help jpax.

MR.Pizza
05-13-2008, 03:22 PM
Got the downpipe leak fixed and instantly saw more power, I don't know how that works but that may have been it. I'm gonna post a Datalog and the version of davis's kal I'm using as soon as I can. Before I fixed the exhaust leak I was running 11.45 wot my afc was 12.45 so I know I'm running real rich pretty much everywhere. What would be the best way to eliminate that?

squeak04si
05-13-2008, 04:23 PM
I knew it was a exhaust leak close to the turbo. So where was the leak at and how bad was it?

MR.Pizza
05-13-2008, 08:24 PM
I knew it was a exhaust leak close to the turbo. So where was the leak at and how bad was it?

Well it was at the donut gasket on the test pipe, I could feel it on my hand at idle. I assume it was alot worse when I was on the gas. Pretty far from the turbo but before the 02 sensors. Maybe it was screwing things up with my a/f. I don't know but the car feels better. I noticed that the Enjo motor mounts keep the wheels from spinning quite well. I think that turbo spools up closer to 3500rpms as far as I can tell. I'd like to hear an opinion on removing my RBC, it doesn't seem to be an advantage in running one on this setup.

shadowmd
05-14-2008, 04:22 AM
yea that turbo should spool around 3500rpms....sound right...and as far as the rbc. it should help if its tuned to ur car.

squeak04si
05-14-2008, 05:44 AM
I would think on a k24 you would spool sooner than that but the RBC may be giving you some lag. The RBC is prolly helping but I don't think you will see the full benefits of it unless you rev high.

MR.Pizza
05-14-2008, 07:33 AM
yea that turbo should spool around 3500rpms....sound right...and as far as the rbc. it should help if its tuned to ur car.
Ok cool, I'd like too know what changes you need to make too tune the rbc. I searched it for a few last night and didn't get much besides adding fuel.

I would think on a k24 you would spool sooner than that but the RBC may be giving you some lag. The RBC is prolly helping but I don't think you will see the full benefits of it unless you rev high.

Yeah I think I'm getting some lag from the rbc cause it seems like it's taking forever to spool. Of course I'm used to the superquick spool greddy turbo though.

clutch797
05-14-2008, 10:07 AM
here ya go bro. Let me know if you still want that turbo.

MR.Pizza
05-14-2008, 01:10 PM
Here is the Kal I'm using and a short d/l of normal driving. When I come to a stop under normal driving the car stalls and when I go to drive off from a stop it hesitates and wants to stall. Not really sure if I should be pulling fuel but it appears that i'm running really rich.

clutch797
05-14-2008, 01:30 PM
did you try my map?

davisj3537
05-14-2008, 01:56 PM
I'm still shocked your turbo is spooling soooo slowly. On the a3 my turbo spooled to 10lbs at 3k and on the k24 it almost spooled to 10lbs by 2100. The a3 had the greddy and the k24 had a bigger turbo than yours....WTF?

MR.Pizza
05-14-2008, 02:58 PM
did you try my map?
No, I decided to put the big turbo on and try to work it out, turned out it was a pretty big exhaust leak.

I'm still shocked your turbo is spooling soooo slowly. On the a3 my turbo spooled to 10lbs at 3k and on the k24 it almost spooled to 10lbs by 2100. The a3 had the greddy and the k24 had a bigger turbo than yours....WTF?

If you look at the datalog the turbo is spooling up now quite well now after the exhaust leak fix, I can't believe the difference. I'm sure that was the major problem. My fuel is way rich though and it's stalling out when I let off or coast to a light. I wanted to do a wot run but it's rainy out and I don't want to end up in a ditch. afcd is 12.46 and my actual a/f is like 11.40. I was gonna tune by lamda overlay but it looks like the whole map is off. Probably cause of the walbro and the 750's. Can anyone give me a rough idea of were to put my overall fuel trim at?

squeak04si
05-14-2008, 05:10 PM
I'm still shocked your turbo is spooling soooo slowly. On the a3 my turbo spooled to 10lbs at 3k and on the k24 it almost spooled to 10lbs by 2100. The a3 had the greddy and the k24 had a bigger turbo than yours....WTF?

spooling can also have to do with having a boost controller or not and the tune. if he is running way rich with very little timing then its not gonna be very responsive. i suggest try to get it dyno tuned asap.

squeak04si
05-14-2008, 05:12 PM
oh and get rid of that megan test pipe. when i first put my turbo kit on i had a megan test pipe but then i took it off and had a straight pipe welding in and i noticed a nice difference.

davisj3537
05-15-2008, 07:04 AM
spooling can also have to do with having a boost controller or not and the tune. if he is running way rich with very little timing then its not gonna be very responsive. i suggest try to get it dyno tuned asap.

True dat

squeak04si
05-15-2008, 01:45 PM
True dat

its ok. you are just slipping since you sold your ep and bought a drop top lmao. my brother is buy a mr s real soon and doing either a 2zz swap or turbo. he already has a matrix xrs so we already have the 2zz hehe

MR.Pizza
05-15-2008, 02:54 PM
ok, so I'm working with your map davis. And my idle s.trim was upwards of 20%, by adding tremendous amounts of fuel I have gotten it to idle at 14.3 from 900-1500rpms. I smoothed the map by adding lesser amounts of fuel to the columns 1 and 2 and 5and 6. Seems to idle in open loop quite well now.

Question, would the next step be to datalog cruising between columns 1-7 and target 14.7? If I'm editing all tables will the high speed fuel adjust as well?