Was the ep3 ahead of its time???

[siexyy55]

Has anyone else noticed that hot egg style hatchbacks are coming into style... maybe people are starting to like the body style???

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/siexyy55/ep3.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/siexyy55/speed3.jpg
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/siexyy55/sti.jpg

maybe times are changing and the many haters out there will start to like the ep3 body style...:noidea:

[v1c10us]

i agree
people hated the ep3 when it came out
me, being the trendy mc trendsetter that i am (cough cough sarcasm) loved it from the second i saw it.
but yes the hatches are becoming popular, as with most car trends we're always a little behind.
Europe's been rockin the hatches for ages, and now we've finally realized that they look good.

edit: i have noticed that honda's have a tendency to look like some fat asian cartoon guy's face
where as alot of other "better" styled cars typically look like sharks or stingrays or some sort of sleek fish type thing.

[Accordexcpe95]

i still rmemeber back in 03 people think i was driving a hybrid. my EP was so rare on teh street back then

[MugsyTheGr8]

funny, cause most people think that the new subie and ms3 wagon look like shit. i love them both though, and ive always loved the look of hatch backs and wagons.

[v1c10us]

yes but a large part of it is the fact that the manufacturers are putting them out.
i love the new wagon of the impreza

[siexyy55]

yes but a large part of it is the fact that the manufacturers are putting them out.
i love the new wagon of the impreza

and i think people will learn to love them

[MugsyTheGr8]

like people learned to love the pontiac aztec?

not to mention the ms3 and sti are wagons.

2 door = hatch. 4 door = wagon.

[earliozz]

i've always loved the hatchback style..and yes, i think alot of the high performance cars are taking up the body style..:mbiggrin:

[kprocivic]

i dont like wagons. when i think of wagons i think of this. hatchys are hot though.

http://cosmiclobster.com/jpegs/cars/740volvo.jpg

[MugsyTheGr8]

and i still dont see how two manufactuers making wagons makes the ep ahead of its time, as if it was the first hatch back or someting. back in 2002 you coould have baught a hatchback sport compact from ford or vw.

[jdm_ep3]

i will have to admit when i first saw a stock ep3 i hated it. then when my friend had one slammed with jdm bumpers all around i loved it! and also im on my second ep3 ftmfw!!!

[Trimix]

Hot hatches are just that...hot!

As mentioned earlier, I think the US has a harder time with the word wagon and hatch. They like the word "crossover" - watever f that means.

But in Europe that know that hatches are a good compromise between performance and versatility.

[SiiK20]

[QUOTE=Trimix;546810]Hot hatches are just that...hot!

Thats for damn sure. IVE ALWAYS LOVED HATCHES. I LOVE the MS3 and the new STi

[MOOGEN]

LOL ... the ep3 was the first of its kinda to set the standard for all coming hatches to have at least v-tec or turbo or both! :eyebrows: of course we didn't get any of that but it still looks hawt!

[the JigGa mAn]

LOL ... the ep3 was the first of its kinda to set the standard for all coming hatches to have at least v-tec or turbo or both! :eyebrows: of course we didn't get any of that but it still looks hawt!

vw has had hatches here before the ep

[Trimix]

I'm a bit biased but I think Audi makes some of the sexiest wagons out there.

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/generated//Audi/A4-S4-RS4%20(B5,%20B6,%20B7%20and%20B8)/A4%20Avant%20(B6)/Aftermarket/Oettinger/008__scaled_600.jpg

[MOOGEN]

vw has had hatches here before the ep

yeah so did hyundai! but noticed how I said first of its kind. :msmile:

kind = cool! LOL

[MOOGEN]

I'm a bit biased but I think Audi makes some of the sexiest wagons out there.

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/generated//Audi/A4-S4-RS4%20(B5,%20B6,%20B7%20and%20B8)/A4%20Avant%20(B6)/Aftermarket/Oettinger/008__scaled_600.jpg

I love audi's my wallet doesn't.:fear::lol:

[ep3dan]

i dont think the ep was ahead of its time i think the ep started the hatch phase being cool.

[Kerby]

Hot hatches are just that...hot!

As mentioned earlier, I think the US has a harder time with the word wagon and hatch. They like the word "crossover" - watever f that means.

But in Europe that know that hatches are a good compromise between performance and versatility.



I have to agree with this 100%. Americans HATE wagons or hatches. The 2008 WRX sedan was specifically made for the NA market. i personally don't understand what there is so much hate toward hatchbacks. I think they are fricken awesome! I did my whole move from house to apartment using the ep3. Of course the sofa and bed came in a truck but everything else was in the hatch.

[519.EP3]

what i got from the initial post was that it's design was ahead of its time.
people hated it and called it ugly - no one wanted one it sounds like.

vw, ford, mazda whatever car company out there could have a hatchback.

everyone knows the ep was not the first egg to hach....cmon now. please.

however, why is it that people still say 'one of those new honda hatches...i think 2003?' or 'is that a 2007?' or 'what year is that is it the new civic hatchback?' Yes, these people are clearly a little out of it however don't you think it's interesting?????

also, the new hatches are taking on new body styles...they would move in that direction anyways however I see similarities to the ep.

2009 toyota matrix being one off the top of my head - have you seen how the stickshift placement even????? let alone the styling.

this is 6-7years later. they had the matrix long before however it seems its just catching up in my eye.... it never caught my eye before.


Im simply just noticing other cars out of corner of my eye and wondering if its an ep, then see its a toyota or sti. however the focus doesnt do that to me..perhaps the upper tail lights and other crap.


I dont really know. but i do know for sure that the original poster wasnt implying the ep was the first hatch and I dont see the argument, unless people are saying the eps styling was like the vw since it was around too.


Also a lot has gone on in the world since the ep was released/discontinued? LOL
Oil has exploded, gas prices are going crazy! hatches become a smaller economical alternative to your bigger cars of the past. And with most companies now, very cheap alternatives.

[Bificus]

I think the EP was slightly ahead of this latest hatch phenomenon where in some cases its actually cool to drive one. Not all places, lots of flak about the STi only coming in a hatch. I like it but then again, I drive a hatch.

[Rep]

You guy's are idiots.


You do realize that the WRX has always been available in a wagon?
You do realize that other Civic hatches, Foci, various VAG hatch's, and other numerous euro hatchs out before the EP came out.
You do realize that the Mazda3 wagon is the continuation of the Mazda 323 series?


nah, just go on being simple minded thinking your ep is a trend setter.
You saved me a post.

[jjr007]

I don't think hatches have ever gone out of style, people were just disappointed that the usdm ep3 never came with the engine they expected. I also think that Honda did a poor job of advertising the ep when it came out, I mean I had never even heard of or seen an ep until 2004 when I bought mine. I happened to notice one when I went to test drive an s2000 that I saw at the dealer.

[renovator]

like people learned to love the pontiac aztec?

not to mention the ms3 and sti are wagons.

2 door = hatch. 4 door = wagon.

thats not necessarily true. would you consider the 5-door GTI a wagon?

[Rep]

2009 toyota matrix being one off the top of my head - have you seen how the stickshift placement even????? let alone the styling.
There are tons of dash mounted shifters in Europe. The EP chasis shifter placement was rather normal and not anything new in Europe.

If you really want to talk about what brought the American public around to modern Euro hatches in the late 90's, it was without a doubt the Ford Focus. Although pretty irrelevent now, the Focus was a HUGE trend setter. I was pretty excited to see the Focus come to the US because at the time I was living in Germany where all these Focus like Ford hatches like the Puma and Ka were everywhere. A European division of Ford pretty much designed the US Ford Focus. It had a stiff chassis for its time, decently fun 4 cyl, good on gas, and a really bizzare hatch design.

I don't feel at any time that Honda hatch designs ever set the market standard except for maybe the CRX.

More info on the Focus. It's a rather significant car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_%28North_America%29

[MugsyTheGr8]

You guy's are idiots.


You do realize that the WRX has always been available in a wagon?
You do realize that other Civic hatches, Foci, various VAG hatch's, and other numerous euro hatchs out before the EP came out.
You do realize that the Mazda3 wagon is the continuation of the Mazda 323 series?


nah, just go on being simple minded thinking your ep is a trend setter.

:frusty:ive been trying to say that the whole thread, thank you.

[MugsyTheGr8]

There are tons of dash mounted shifters in Europe. The EP chasis shifter placement was rather normal and not anything new in Europe.

If you really want to talk about what brought the American public around to modern Euro hatches in the late 90's, it was without a doubt the Ford Focus. Although pretty irrelevent now, the Focus was a HUGE trend setter. I was pretty excited to see the Focus come to the US because at the time I was living in Germany where all these Focus like Ford hatches like the Puma and Ka were everywhere. A European division of Ford pretty much designed the US Ford Focus. It had a stiff chassis for its time, decently fun 4 cyl, good on gas, and a really bizzare hatch design.

I don't feel at any time that Honda hatch designs ever set the market standard except for maybe the CRX.

More info on the Focus. It's a rather significant car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus_%28North_America%29
get your facts and intellect out of here

[Rep]

get your facts and intellect out of here
No way. I think we all know the EP influenced cars such as the 1979 Civic hatch, 1984 VW Gti, maybe even the Corrado, depending on how the flux capacitor was doing after all that time travel.

[hatchattack02]

Hes right i mean look at the focus compared to the ep i get them mistaken all the time and get my hopes up on meeting a fellow Ep'er :mfrown:

[renovator]

You guy's are idiots.


You do realize that the WRX has always been available in a wagon?
You do realize that other Civic hatches, Foci, various VAG hatch's, and other numerous euro hatchs out before the EP came out.
You do realize that the Mazda3 wagon is the continuation of the Mazda 323 series?


nah, just go on being simple minded thinking your ep is a trend setter.

i think when he meant ahead of its time, it was more of a like 2nd wave of hot-hatch popularity in the states. the only other hot hatches that were on the market when the EP came out were the MkIV GTI, mini cooper s, SVT Focus. every other spo-com had the silohuette of a coupe or a 4 door sedan.

now the market has a bunch. the new Rabbit/GTI, A3, volvo C30 (which i think is sex on wheels), Mini, Mazdaspeed3, 5-door WRX/STI, the matrix, and the astra.

basically the timing of the EP's release was the reason why it didn't sell all that great. not only did it come late for the party, it was a very half-ass'd effort on honda's part. it didnt have 6 gears and the K20 we all wanted it to have. but it if it did, there'd probably be a little bit more of us on the road and i'm glad there aren't. we're in a pretty "exclusive" club. haha.

[Rep]

i think when he meant ahead of its time, it was more of a like 2nd wave of hot-hatch popularity in the states. the only other hot hatches that were on the market when the EP came out were the MkIV GTI, mini cooper s, SVT Focus. every other spo-com had the silohuette of a coupe or a 4 door sedan.
The EP didn't even start a second wave, it started nothing. So much that people don't even know what EP's are. Here are some year 2000-2002 models, modern, but before the EP, USDM.

http://www.tuning.gen.tr/imagdatas/14914_a.jpg

http://images.securedwebform.com/reviews/images/02protege5.jpg

http://estb.msn.com/i/7D/49FDDB36C0FAB45F91C59EEB667036.jpg

This one even came with a 6 speed, 8400 RPM redline and VTECECEC.

http://www.argilo.net/bildoj/2003-toyota-matrix-xrs.jpg



I don't even think having a K20A2, 6 speed, and LSD would have "saved" the EP from being a low production product. It's not a terrible car, but it's certainly nothing new and the average consumer DOESN'T CARE about performance features. Just an example, like 80% of Mustangs sold are V6's.

We can even bring up Hondas. The 92-96 Preludes were like 95% non H22 models. Most RSX's sold were bases. The EP was just a hard product to sell, to most people it was just a slightly more classy Focus to the masses, and the $18,000+ sticker price pushed people away.

[Kodeen]

You know the seventh day, when God rested? He was autocrossing in an EP, so take that, disbelievers.

[Rep]

You know the seventh day, when God rested? He was autocrossing in an EP, so take that, disbelievers.
There have been some scriptures discovered about Jesus and Pontious Pilot driving up to the crucifix in an EP. The cross fit in the back, no problem.

[MugsyTheGr8]

dont let this thread seem like im a hater or anything. i love the shit out of my ep, but we have to realize that on the grand scheme of things, this car, in stock form is really not that special.

[Rep]

dont let this thread seem like im a hater or anything. i love the shit out of my ep, but we have to realize that on the grand scheme of things, this car, in stock form is really not that special.
It's a great car, I just think people get a bit ahead of themselves.

[MugsyTheGr8]

thats not necessarily true. would you consider the 5-door GTI a wagon?

um, yes

[Rep]

um, yes
heh, the wagon VS 4 door hatch debate. A wagon is generally a vehicle with a lift gate and an extended rear after the back wheels. Notice that there is a 4 door hatch Focus and a Wagon focus. Do a quick google of the two and you'll see what I mean.

I don't feel the 4 door hatch rabbit is a wagon, though it is debateable. A text-book definition is ANY vehicle with a liftgate is a wagon, though I find the term pretty obsolete. Even C5 Corvettes have liftgates these days. Perhaps what makes something a wagon is its usage.

[RollinCivic]

There have been some scriptures discovered about Jesus and Pontious Pilot driving up to the crucifix in an EP. The cross fit in the back, no problem.

:rofl: LMAO :) the hatch is very spacious:mcool:

[Kodeen]

If the only difference between hatchbacks and wagons is the number of doors, then what is the difference between this:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2007/Ford/2007.ford.focus.20103927-E.jpg

and this:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2006/Ford/100578106/2006.ford.focus.20026190-E.jpg

[MugsyTheGr8]

links broken

[renovator]

We can even bring up Hondas. The 92-96 Preludes were like 95% non H22 models. Most RSX's sold were bases. The EP was just a hard product to sell, to most people it was just a slightly more classy Focus to the masses, and the $18,000+ sticker price pushed people away.

thats the point i'm trying to make. the EP3 was only available in one trim-level and one trim only, the Si. and its supposed to be performance oriented. AHM made it too middle-of-the-road, trying to be everything to everyone. they didnt want to take the risk of making it just a little bit sportier for fear of taking sales away from the RSX-S. which is silly because the previous generation Si and the Integra GS-R were able to co-exist.

but again, still didn't stop me from buying mine. :mwink:

[MugsyTheGr8]

both wagons by my definition. doesnt really matter to me what ford calls it. sorry for the some what close mined opinion, but thats just how i define it. it could be argued that, by my logic, the chevy aveo is also a wagon.

[Rep]

both wagons by my definition. doesnt really matter to me what ford calls it. sorry for the some what close mined opinion, but thats just how i define it. it could be argued that, by my logic, the chevy aveo is also a wagon.
EP's are wagons. Yes?

[MugsyTheGr8]

EP's are wagons. Yes?

no it has 2 doors, that equals hatch.:msmooch:

[Rep]

ur face is ahead of its time.

[slo_k20]

I agree, I always thought wagon was better than saying "4-door hatch" thats an oxymoron.

[Trimix]

Instead of saying 2-door or 4-door hatch I've always used 3-door and 5-door, respectively. Is that just me?

[MugsyTheGr8]

I agree, I always thought wagon was better than saying "4-door hatch" thats an oxymoron.

give it to em':boxing:


ur face is ahead of its time.
:rofl:

[humpmasterflex]

Hatches FTW!!!

This is my 3rd hatch, I have 2 hatches back in poland: An Eg and a Peugeot 206!!!

:flock:

[el_puncho]

like people learned to love the pontiac aztec?

not to mention the ms3 and sti are wagons.

2 door = hatch. 4 door = wagon.

yea that brotha...MS3 is a beast of a wagon tho thats for sure!...new suby looks like poo...EP is just sexy! although around the CALI OC area they are becoming way too common, if they start to get as common as rsx' im just gonna trade up and get a type S...

[v1c10us]

5 door or 3 door...
The terms are fucked because wagon is a more specific way of saying hatchback

hatchback means, no trunk, there is a hatch where the trunk is and it opens to the rest of the car.
RSX, integra, crx, focus blah blah, all hatchbacks.
Wagons are when the space in the hatch is located primarily behind the rear wheels instead of on top of the wheels or in front of them.

[!@#$%]

If anything, the ep was the last of a dying breed.

[Rep]

If anything, the ep was the last of a dying breed.
Still plenty of hatches around. :hungry:

[RedSiBaron]

Still plenty of hatches around. :hungry:

yah Replica, im right there with ya on that one, wtf are these people talking about...last time i checked i see a mk 5 golf/gti, and/or focus whenever i hit the roads...i dont usually see an ep...



you all realize the first si hatch was a continuation of the 3rd gen civic (84-87)which was designed to compete with the most popular hatch at the time right!? that was the vw rabbit/gti

sooo...yah, the modern civic hatc as you know it was born to compete with the vw hatch which was the rabbit (which became the golf, and the gti is a golf, dont be stupid)

soooo...civic hatch, didnt start shit, it was just a rust bucket economy car until vw kicked honda in the ass to get a move on...



as much as you guys (myself included) love the ep, its not a revolutionary car, it was a great bang for the buck, especially as a type r, but thats about it...faster than the old civics sure, but w/e...

the ep design wasnt even revolutionary (though a huge departure from the ek), its a great design, especially with the proper type r body parts (thats how it was designed to look originally, not what we got in the US), but i should mention a lot of the body lines and elements that make up the design are based largely on the first si, and the early civics as a whole...not only this but it leans heavily on the design trends of the civic since the 1st gen...

i love my ep, i love the design, because it was well made, well engineered and well designed...but i dont think its revolutionary....

OK wait...i will give it this, the only thing it did was force the civic to be a nicer car, but thats because of the design that went into the stylings and material choices, thats it, but it didnt impact the car world, just honda...

[skooba]

the mini cooper is my favorite hatch of all time. the ep3 was a fun car, but grew old rather quickly. If I was more into modding and doing engine swaps, and had the time and skills to handle it all, I'd probably enjoy the ep3. But come on, it's not revolutionary one bit. Well, maybe the 2nd gear grind started a revolution for all future hondas, but I wouldnt write that off as a positive thing.

[!@#$%]

I understand that the Civic hatch was poised to dethrone the old mid 80's golf, however, VW still makes their hatch. When is the next time honda will release another hatch to compete in the sport compact world?

My guess is never. There won't be another car to resemble the orginal civic which is what makes it the last of a dying breed.

[Rep]

ur face is a hatch

[!@#$%]

ur face is a hatch

my face is a hatch for these
http://www.ruizcstores.com/images/prods_hme_mainpic_taquitos.jpg

[MOOGEN]

LOL this thread is pointless... I bet there are thousands of threads like this on other hatch forums (not civic so calm everyone down).

It's funny how most of the people make such bad remarks about it when they themselves own one. I think its an awesome car regardless cause I got it for a damn good price and is a very sturdy car.

[Windchaser]

LOL this thread is pointless... I bet there are thousands of threads like this on other hatch forums (not civic so calm everyone down).

It's funny how most of the people make such bad remarks about it when they themselves own one. I think its an awesome car regardless cause I got it for a damn good price and is a very sturdy car.
quit lying to yourself!

[MOOGEN]

quit lying to yourself!

LOL your the worse one out of us all...:mtongue:

[cow]

Manufacturers are making hatches due to their practicality. It's got nothing to do with the EP3-- the car, in America, was a complete failure for Honda.

The EP wasn't ahead of it's time-- the EF/ EG/ EK all preceeded it.

[Riv Civ]

VTAAKKKKK! :mconfused:

[cruzty]

Honda should had put a k20 A(whatever) with at least 180hp with the RSX S VTEC and 5spd. To let the RSX S with the 20+ hp advantage and the 6spd. over the SI... but no no no..... they killed their own to rise sales of their future gone RSX....and now bringing a coupe si with a sedan type R this is crazy.... feel me?:lalala: hahaha

[RedSiBaron]

Honda should had put a k20 A(whatever) with at least 180hp with the RSX S VTEC and 5spd. To let the RSX S with the 20+ hp advantage and the 6spd. over the SI... but no no no..... they killed their own to rise sales of their future gone RSX....and now bringing a coupe si with a sedan type R this is crazy.... feel me?:lalala: hahaha


cruzty you make a good point, but its all been said before, what if honda had done this, what if honda had done that...we are all dissapointed with what honda did with the ep3 in the states, but we all fucking bought one anyway...haha...


personally i feel the downfall of the si was that its looks, people buy cars on looks a lot more than they buy on performance (trust me on this one)...we pay attention to performance, but most people dont...

[cruzty]

Yeah you're right!!!!! but hay... maybe it's time to think why most of us bought this car....

1- First Si hatchback ever with Power everything
2- First Si hatchback ever with it's own front end
3- First Si hatchback ever with twin cam engine
4- Best front seats on a production Honda car in the US, not even the S2000 seats hugs you like our seats.
5- It has and Ep3-R to look up to.
6- cool rally style shifter
7- ephatch.com
8- I feel like "the last of mohicans" every day driving to work.
9- it's reliable
10- EP3-R > FN2-R :scared:

[DRP967]

Yeah you're right!!!!! but hay... maybe it's time to think why most of us bought this car....

1- First Si hatchback ever with Power everything
2- First Si hatchback ever with it's own front end
3- First Si hatchback ever with twin cam engine
4- Best front seats on a production Honda car in the US, not even the S2000 seats hugs you like our seats.
5- It has and Ep3-R to look up to.
6- cool rally style shifter
7- ephatch.com
8- I feel like "the last of mohicans" every day driving to work.
9- it's reliable
10- EP3-R > FN2-R :scared:

I agree with the above.
To answer the OP's original inquiry, id have to say no.

*Think about it people, Honda didnt give the EP3 "performance" Vtec....think of the advantages.

1. Not a theft magnet (cant say that about the other Civics)

2. Enthusiasts assume the the car has the A3 and or is slow. (perfect sleeper)

*To sum it all up, the EP is one of the most if not thee most unique Civic to date. Everytime i drive mine i feel good knowing that im in a cult car...the few...the proud...the mini van owners!

[Rasy]

Regarding wagons, it's all about the Audi RS6. 580 HP / 480 TQ, AWD.

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/audi-rs6-avant-1-big.jpg

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/audi-rs6-avant-2-big.jpg

[civickaida2004]

I think a hatch is determined by the letter "H" on the title.

EXA 5DR H,

and wagons are classified as Five Door Wagons on the title :-p.

Example , 3DR H for my focus SVT.

Then I drove a 5DR H focus.

[MOOGEN]

everytime I get a car I say not a hatch but somehow I end up with a hatch. Kinda weird fate. My first car was a DA hatch then EP hatch.

[whitt]

It's fuuny cause when I had the Eg and started building it everyone bitched. Now it's the one every supposed purist loves. The Ep will be the same way. Ask anyone overseas we're always years behind because of the herd mentality. People hate on the Ep cause they have heard others hate on it. The only reason good Hondas exist is because people like us build them. Really what civic has come from the factory RR. The new Si's are even watered down still compared to across the pond.

[Unknownally]

I've always wanted a hatchback.
I first intended on getting an eg6, then I settled with the EP which I chose over the EM2.

[civickaida2004]

If the only difference between hatchbacks and wagons is the number of doors, then what is the difference between this:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2007/Ford/2007.ford.focus.20103927-E.jpg

and this:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/2006/Ford/100578106/2006.ford.focus.20026190-E.jpg

I like the 5DR Focus hatch

it comes in an SVT version too.

[jjermzz]

Subie came out with a hatch cuz of Europe(that's why they got the type-R hatch). And because the winners in WRC or off-road racing were usually hatches.

I know Europe rock a bunch of ford hatch in the 90's for off-road racing.

Subie just trying to win.

[Rep]

Subie just trying to win.
Yeah...because the hatch somehow makes the car faster...since hatches tend to weigh more...

[dtt02278]

why couldnt the US continue the Si in a Hatchback form...??? or even just a hatchback for an option.... they're getting rid of it and making family four doors? ahhah weird direction

[wrussi]

haha i found that question funny. i would say that the ep was behind its time.

Now this is just for the american USDM civic si for the following reasons:
bland exterior not good looking. ride height too high slow engine awful suspension 5 speed tranny lack of LSD.


on the other hand the euro and JDM ep3 type r could be considered the benchmark for hot hatches for the following reasons
nice looking exterior
nice ride height
pretty fast engine 8k redline
6 speed and JDM models had LSD
beautiful seats
exellent suspension setup.
projector headlights
17 in wheels

[jjermzz]

Hatches have to do with european market, why do you think ours was made in the UK. And Once again the new R.

Off-road racing is not as much obout top end speed and low weight. When you see this video you'll know why.

Thats why the STi only come in hatch, and not offered in sedan. Its to compete with these dudes forget about WEIGHT.

Check out the video, the Sedan don't have the upper have the hatches do. And when you see a sedan, they have big wings and look like hatches.

Now thats a sport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfA9zID4Kic

[Rep]

Subaru has been very successful with coupes and sedans. I'm really not buying the idea that they went to a hatch/wagon to be more successful at rally. They've ALWAYS offered a wagon variant of their cars.

Also, ALL forms of racing benefit from low weight, unless it's like a destruction derby or something.

[jjermzz]

Yes theres is benefit from weight reduction. I agree with that.
But where's the carbon fiber, if its that important. Impreza come stock with aluminum hoods which is sufficient weight reduction.

[Rep]

Yes theres is benefit from weight reduction. I agree with that.
But where's the carbon fiber, if its that important. Impreza come stock with aluminum hoods which is sufficient weight reduction.
I'm really not sure what your point is. Can you give me a thesis statement? :noidea: I thought you were implying that Subaru made the Sti a wagon (in the US, since they existed before this and it's nothing new) because EP's are awesome?

[4lugSLUG]

look at the Fit. its pretty much a detuned si with 4 doors. even the dealership said that they thought that car was ahead of its time. but after the em1 people didnt know what to expect with a hatch si and the shifter that threw alot pf people off. i thought it was a damn good looking car plus i like hatches so i was in love. except for its minor set backs like vtec on the intake side and a 5 speed tranny i think its a good car.

[Rep]

look at the Fit. its pretty much a detuned si with 4 doors. even the dealership said that they thought that car was ahead of its time. but after the em1 people didnt know what to expect with a hatch si and the shifter that threw alot pf people off. i thought it was a damn good looking car plus i like hatches so i was in love. except for its minor set backs like vtec on the intake side and a 5 speed tranny i think its a good car.
The Fit has completey different dimentions and everything than an EP. They're even rear beam. Also, the Fit/Jazz entered production in 2001, before the EP.

[RedSiBaron]

haha i found that question funny. i would say that the ep was behind its time.

Now this is just for the american USDM civic si for the following reasons:
bland exterior not good looking. ride height too high slow engine awful suspension 5 speed tranny lack of LSD.


on the other hand the euro and JDM ep3 type r could be considered the benchmark for hot hatches for the following reasons
nice looking exterior
nice ride height
pretty fast engine 8k redline
6 speed and JDM models had LSD
beautiful seats
exellent suspension setup.
projector headlights
17 in wheels

you named things that still came on the usdm ep...

the usdm ep still was not a bad design, it still had a good suspension, the issue was they jacked it up on the springs nad this threw off the suspension geometry cuz it was designed to be an inch lower...

i just think your argument is lacking, though im not supporting the original statement this thread is based on

[4lugSLUG]

The Fit has completey different dimentions and everything than an EP. They're even rear beam. Also, the Fit/Jazz entered production in 2001, before the EP.

you dont really have to get all technical about it but whatever

[Rep]

you dont really have to get all technical about it but whatever
Oh, I was just wondering if you had more info about Ep - Fit likeness. Maybe there's something I missed. :hungry:

[jjermzz]

I'm really not sure what your point is. Can you give me a thesis statement? :noidea: I thought you were implying that Subaru made the Sti a wagon (in the US, since they existed before this and it's nothing new) because EP's are awesome?

My point from before was about WRC and using CF for weight reduction its not priority.

Subie has offered a wagon form of Impreza 2.5 and WRX, But never in STi.

The new STI wing kinda looks like a the EP3-r wing

Ep are awesome though

And the Fit sucks

And its common knowledge why hatches rocked always.

[hatchman]

i liked the ep si but it is what it is .its deff slower than than the rsx by alot but thats why it is a civic. honda knew that true honda heads were gonna make it to what ever they wanted to be it powerwise especially. a little more would of been good but for what it was its was a ok grocery getter..lol. plus we had the type-r to look up to

[superhatch]

I think the 5th gen civic is what really brought hatches into the limelight here in the states. It was light, and the 3G gen teg and the 5G hatch were basically like legos. Circuit racing with hatches grew 10 fold, and everyone and their mom owned one. I don't think you can even find an un-modded 5G hatch on H-T anymore!

I've owned 9 Hondas, all hatches. 2 EPs, 2 EGs, and 5 EFs. I got my first in 1993 so I've seen first hand the evolution of hatches and their popularity. I can't say I attribute the EP to changing anything. If anything it showed Honda that there was no point in releasing a hatch in the US in their next design phase. The EP was a horrible seller compared to Honda's other hatches which are pretty much everywhere.

[RedSiBaron]

I think the 5th gen civic is what really brought hatches into the limelight here in the states. It was light, and the 3G gen teg and the 5G hatch were basically like legos. Circuit racing with hatches grew 10 fold, and everyone and their mom owned one. I don't think you can even find an un-modded 5G hatch on H-T anymore!

I've owned 9 Hondas, all hatches. 2 EPs, 2 EGs, and 5 EFs. I got my first in 1993 so I've seen first hand the evolution of hatches and their popularity. I can't say I attribute the EP to changing anything. If anything it showed Honda that there was no point in releasing a hatch in the US in their next design phase. The EP was a horrible seller compared to Honda's other hatches which are pretty much everywhere.

the eg might have been big in the tuner scene, but the 3g had been mopping up in road racing (still is) since it came out in 84 and mugen was winning races along with jackson racing and kingmotorsports (in the us)...after that the ef continued that...sorry eg, not special either, its just a jelly bean that weighed more than the previous civics and didnt get the engine it was supposed to (huh, reminds me of another car we might all know...)

[MugsyTheGr8]

My point from before was about WRC and using CF for weight reduction its not priority.

Subie has offered a wagon form of Impreza 2.5 and WRX, But never in STi.

The new STI wing kinda looks like a the EP3-r wing

Ep are awesome though

And the Fit sucks

And its common knowledge why hatches rocked always.
not true, you could get the sti variant on the gc chassis in all three body styles, including, le 5-door wagon

and, you could have gotten an 02 bug eye in sti wagon form too, just not in the states. to reiterate what is being said all throughout this thread, the ep did not influence manufacturers to make wagons or hatches. this is just getting silly.

[superhatch]

the eg might have been big in the tuner scene, but the 3g had been mopping up in road racing (still is) since it came out in 84 and mugen was winning races along with jackson racing and kingmotorsports (in the us)...after that the ef continued that...sorry eg, not special either, its just a jelly bean that weighed more than the previous civics and didnt get the engine it was supposed to (huh, reminds me of another car we might all know...)

What you say is true, but I disagree that the EG wasn't special. Sure you had the 3G's and the 4G's but the 5G was the hatch that really started the movement to the track IMO. The CX was rather light, and you could pull parts straight from a teg, or use stock ITR parts to improve the car in so many ways. The 3G and 4G (which is still a staple in Auto-xing all over the country) are great cars in their own right, but when it comes to really changing the makeup of hatchbacks on the track, or being modded in general I would say the 5G civic did that in numbers the 3 and 4G's couldnt. I'm looking at this from a non-race team perspective. I know far more people who track 5G's than 4Gs, and I don't know anyone that tracks a 3G.

I do know a TON of people who still track CRX's though :tongue1:

[RedSiBaron]

What you say is true, but I disagree that the EG wasn't special. Sure you had the 3G's and the 4G's but the 5G was the hatch that really started the movement to the track IMO. The CX was rather light, and you could pull parts straight from a teg, or use stock ITR parts to improve the car in so many ways. The 3G and 4G (which is still a staple in Auto-xing all over the country) are great cars in their own right, but when it comes to really changing the makeup of hatchbacks on the track, or being modded in general I would say the 5G civic did that in numbers the 3 and 4G's couldnt. I'm looking at this from a non-race team perspective. I know far more people who track 5G's than 4Gs, and I don't know anyone that tracks a 3G.

I do know a TON of people who still track CRX's though :tongue1:

the same thing with the integra applied to the 3g, my father did a full teg brake swap on his 84 dx in 90 just by lookin under peoples cars...and there were atleast 3 3g hatches in the runoffs this year, i see far more track 3gs at the runoffs than egs, and i dont remember seeing any egs...im sorry but im just going to dissagree on that...plus i have a track 3g in my garage right now being built, and thats a gtlite spec car...

i love the eg...the 3g was developed as a racing platform for honda (yes i know its an eco car, but honda always based its company around racing and they intend to race the cars they develop, look at all the civics, tegs, all at the very least raced in touring car series) and the 4g was the followup vehicle to take its place, i dont know the specific history of the eg so i wont claim it was or wasnt built for that purpose, the eg was the refinement of that small lightweight hatch honda started with the 3g, im sure its just as great on the track if not better...and lets be honest, the ep was hondas attempt to recapture this, sure they made it bigger and heavier, but it did just as great on the track...

how bout we just agree that the e-chasis hatches did great on the track :mbiggrin: yay!

[SiR R8TD]

I've liked hatches ever since I first saw the EG back in 92'. When I saw the EP for the first time, I didn't like it that much. But when they introduced the HFP kit for them, I fell in love.

[RedSiBaron]

I've liked hatches ever since I first saw the EG back in 92'. When I saw the EP for the first time, I didn't like it that much. But when they introduced the HFP kit for them, I fell in love.

actually thats when it got my attention was in 04 and i saw a vbp full hfp si, and just thought it was badass

[willy_akino]

ive always love the ep3...even though its a civic...i just fell in love with the body style

[wh03lse]

i think ur seeing a repeat in history rite now cause the new STi is getting alot of heat for changing the body shape to a hatch... that thing is droppe dead hot... if the gas mileage were even close to our hatches id totally jump ship haha

[RedSiBaron]

i think ur seeing a repeat in history rite now cause the new STi is getting alot of heat for changing the body shape to a hatch... that thing is droppe dead hot... if the gas mileage were even close to our hatches id totally jump ship haha

heh i was still on the fence with the new sti until i saw one from a balcony in colorado driving through a lot with snow on the ground and the person driving it was sliding it sideways and i just new it was correct haha

[superhatch]

how bout we just agree that the e-chasis hatches did great on the track :mbiggrin: yay!

That I can do! :mbiggrin:

I wasn't sure about the EP until I saw it in person, and the same goes for the new STi. I have yet to drive the new STi though, so I'm still not 100% sold on it, and from the video and written reviews it seems to have lost some of its edge.

[PuMpKiN_Ep3]

:brick:

you better believe it... the ep is in.. :biggrin1:

by the way... mmmmmh....!! i like the new HB STI.. i think thats not good.. :mrolleyes:

[renovator]

I agree with the above.

*To sum it all up, the EP is one of the most if not thee most unique Civic to date. Everytime i drive mine i feel good knowing that im in a cult car...the few...the proud...the mini van owners!

thats why i love my ep. the only other Civic that would be more unique would probably be the del Sol.

last of the mohicans, that's a good one. lol i was at a light yesterday coming back from work and this dude who pulled up in a B16 (generation, not powered) Sentra commented on my car and told me that his white EP got stolen the night before and was telling me to be careful. nice guy. never ran into a bad EP guy yet.

[Jsoto517]

So its agreed. Our ep3 are the shitt.:pray2: Excellent

[tech9]

hatches were never hot here in the US so ill say no to ep3 being ahead of its time

[Windchaser]

the ep3 was a fatass and still is a fatass.